How Much Would This Be Worth?

[Scorponok]

I want to give some of the important NPCs a Carcanet of Stability.

This piece of jewelry gives the wearer a damage limit of 20. Meaning that those who try to kill them can only damage them a maximum of 20HP. The rest of the damage is absorbed by the carcanet and is not counted.

I imagine this would be very useful when fighting dragons and things like that, but would be pretty useless to low level PCs.

I can't really find anything like it in the DMG, though I admit I didn't really spend a whole lot of time looking.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

In terms of value, it'd be worth... almost incalculably much, as it scales indefinitely with level.

Personally, I'd think long and hard before including it, depending on the level of optimization your party plays at - overall, the item seems to give a big middle finger to fighters and mundanes of all sort.

[lightningcat]

If it was applied after DR and Resistance, it would be a minor artifact. If it is applied first, it is overpowered for a major artifact.

But I think it would be a middle finger more at any Damage dealing casters then to mundanes.

Personally, I would also allow it to be bypassed as DR/Epic, and increase the limit to 40 hit points. This is high enough that a string of attacks could kill the character, but low enough that you never suffer massive damage.

But even then it would still be a minor artifact. (Cost: Whatever you can charge, but its not really for sell anyways)

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Argh, ninja'd. Agreed that such an item would be a minor artifact at the very least. Nevertheless, it has me thinking about the sorts of things that can be done with an item that can absorb damage. Store the absorbed damage points in a reservoir and use those points to power abilities (healing, direct damage, temporary DR beyond what the item already provides, et cetera).

[Scorponok]

I think I miswrote what I intended. The damage limit would apply to a single attack. So if say, a high level fighter had 3 attacks. The first attack damaged 40, the second damaged 35 and the third damaged 15, the total damage for the guy wearing the carcanet would be 55. (20+20+15)

It's more a middle finger to casters who have long range attacks that do high damage.

It's also not intended that Ninja A can't damage Noble B more than a certain amount forever. It is per attack.

[lightningcat]

I think I miswrote what I intended. The damage limit would apply to a single attack. So if say, a high level fighter had 3 attacks. The first attack damaged 40, the second damaged 35 and the third damaged 15, the total damage for the guy wearing the carcanet would be 55. (20+20+15)

It's more a middle finger to casters who have long range attacks that do high damage.

It's also not intended that Ninja A can't damage Noble B more than a certain amount forever. It is per attack.

I understood it in the manner in which you intended. Otherwise it would be much worse. :smalleek:

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Hmm.

...correct me if I'm wrong (I very possibly am), but most of the damage-focused casting builds I've seen actually are delivering multiple spells - they're using tricks like two wand fighting, twin spell, split ray, or spells that have multiple attacks by default (force missiles.)

But, even assuming they are just doing one big 'ol burst of damage... spellcasters usually have other options. Melee types often don't.

I mean, even assuming a full-attack from a high-level character, we're looking at a maximum total of... what? 120 damage? 140? (I'm not familiar with optimized melee builds, I really don't know how many attacks they can get.)

If this is just meant to be a defence against sudden assassination, I might work out something else - a contingent spell, perhaps, or something along those lines. This one is gonna change the game play in high levels for whatever character gets it, and may not fulfil the stated function besides (Noble could still be offed by death effect, poison, or any number of things. Besides... how many HP has he got? Just thinking over a handful of things I remember, I'm pretty sure that between the surprise round and winning initiative, a swordsage could get in well over a hundred damage with those restrictions.

But, of course, all of this depends on your players - it'd be abusively powerful if it were part of core, but home brew never is.

[TuggyNE]

This seems, fundamentally, like a really weird gadget. Very much an artifact; it does things that wouldn't normally make sense.


...correct me if I'm wrong (I very possibly am), but most of the damage-focused casting builds I've seen actually are delivering multiple spells - they're using tricks like two wand fighting, twin spell, split ray, or spells that have multiple attacks by default (force missiles.)

But, even assuming they are just doing one big 'ol burst of damage... spellcasters usually have other options. Melee types often don't.

No, you're right. The usual tricks for mailmanning involve things like greater arcane fusion and Quicken Spell to get anywhere from half a dozen to several dozen, or even NI, orbs thrown at the target. Each one usually does a fair chunk of damage, sure, but it's divided more than optimized melee often is.

For example, I have a level 10 build that does up to 8d6+94 on each of two melee touch attacks on a charge. At level 20 that would probably be somewhere in the vicinity of 8d6+200 on three melee touch attacks, and that's already really stretching the action economy.


I mean, even assuming a full-attack from a high-level character, we're looking at a maximum total of... what? 120 damage? 140? (I'm not familiar with optimized melee builds, I really don't know how many attacks they can get.)

Well, if you optimized for maximum attacks, you'd end up with TWFing and Totemist/PsyWar natural attack generation. Not quite sure how far you can get, but probably easily over a dozen. And if you can get Rapidstrike somehow, that would balloon absurdly.

However, that's less common; it's mostly for precision damage, or just to avoid the rut of charging.

[Psyborg]

Well, if you optimized for maximum attacks, you'd end up with TWFing and Totemist/PsyWar natural attack generation. Not quite sure how far you can get, but probably easily over a dozen. And if you can get Rapidstrike somehow, that would balloon absurdly.

The original King of Smack (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866038/The_king_of_smack.) had 13 claws, bite, and 4 tentacles on full-attack, without Rapid Strike, back in 2004. Higher is possible, but KoS was the first of these sorts of builds. The 2011 Lizzipede (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1170.0) pulled off 1,067,212 attacks in a single action, which record I believe still stands.

Hopefully 21,344,240 damage is enough to kill whatever's wearing your artifact; if not, there's always Pun-Pun.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, the issue isn't that it's unkillable - one save or die could still do it. But, I do think it really screws over the vast majority of melee builds, (again, could be mistake, but I don't think most melee builds optimize for nuvhmber of attacks.

[LordErebus12]

Eye of the Deep
This jeweled amulet feels heavier than it should be, the surface of the dark black stone is carved in swirls and feels greasy to the touch. On closer exception its pot-marked and porous, further making the overall heaviness feel somehow wrong. The central jewel is a deep sea green with a highly polished, the surface is smooth and rounded rather than cut, half-oval in shape. Inside, the gemstone is shot with red, resembling a red iris. The chain is a simple iron chain necklace, definitely not original. The back of the amulet is flat and looks like it was once mounted to the another surface.

Whenever the wearer is dealt over fifty points of damage from any source, the damage is reduced to exactly fifty damage. The wearer is still subject to massive damage from the damage if the wearer would normal with the rest is absorbed into the amulet and is stored and can later be used to distill vials of agony. Each vial is worth 3 EXP or 200 gp and can be used for crafting magical items and as spell component. The amulet can create one vial of agony for every forty points of damage absorbed.

[The Mentalist]

Perhaps (and I think this is fulfilling the "You can't suddenly kill me" effect of the item)

Assassin's Bane Amulet
You may not be reduced below 10% of your total hitpoints in a single round, this effect may not be called into effect again until you have healed to at least half of your total hitpoints.

And I would price this as one of those "Heal when you're reduced to Negative Hitpoints" belts that are so over-priced.

Perhaps have a Greater version that prevents you from being Ability Damaged more than 1/2 of any one ability or level drained of more than 1/4 of your levels from any one source.

[Scorponok]

Eye of the Deep
This jeweled amulet feels heavier than it should be, the surface of the dark black stone is carved in swirls and feels greasy to the touch. On closer exception its pot-marked and porous, further making the overall heaviness feel somehow wrong. The central jewel is a deep sea green with a highly polished, the surface is smooth and rounded rather than cut, half-oval in shape. Inside, the gemstone is shot with red, resembling a red iris. The chain is a simple iron chain necklace, definitely not original. The back of the amulet is flat and looks like it was once mounted to the another surface.

Whenever the wearer is dealt over fifty points of damage from any source, the damage is reduced to exactly fifty damage. The wearer is still subject to massive damage from the damage if the wearer would normal with the rest is absorbed into the amulet and is stored and can later be used to distill vials of agony. Each vial is worth 3 EXP or 200 gp and can be used for crafting magical items and as spell component. The amulet can create one vial of agony for every forty points of damage absorbed.


I like this!

However, I am sure you already know, but Eye of the Deep is already a monster in Forgotten Realms.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_the_Deep

Is there a reason why you called this by the same name?

[LordErebus12]

I like this!

However, I am sure you already know, but Eye of the Deep is already a monster in Forgotten Realms.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_the_Deep

Is there a reason why you called this by the same name?

Nope, just seemed right as the name.

[Deviston]

Once again however, probably still artifact level item.

[LordErebus12]

Once again however, probably still artifact level item.

how i see it, its never gonna be less than an artifact. its way too powerful with no similar spells or abilities to compare it to.

[Deviston]

Nail on the head with that call Erebus.

[Hanuman]

http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/6/f8b99100-73ab-424d-96aa-1c11865012c8.Large.jpg

[genericwit]

This is a little vague. Maximum of 2O per hit? 2O per hit per opponent, or per opponent per round? Or, god forbid, a maximum of 2O damage total from all opponents per round?

[Scorponok]

This is a little vague. Maximum of 2O per hit? 2O per hit per opponent, or per opponent per round? Or, god forbid, a maximum of 2O damage total from all opponents per round?

Max of 20 per hit. So a fighter doing 43, 53, 64 damage would be reduced to 20,20,20. Another fighter stepping up and doing 23, 45, 30 damage would also do 20,20,20. A fireball doing 63 damage would be reduced to 20.

I imagine this would be much more valuable to high level players. I don't see low level players ever needing use of this. It's like a part for an F1 car. Not terribly useful to the average schmoe, but for a professional racer, highly valuable.

[Just to Browse]

Make it like 50% of the user's HP. Then it's not epic, because a bazillion little attacks can still mess you up, but at least the wizard won't get OTK'd by an unlucky save against disintegrate. It's still super duper strong, but I think that takes it out of artifact territory.

[Deviston]

Sigh, I have always had problems with things like this in the past and for a number of reasons. When determining the balance of this or that, one must have certain givens. However, in a campaign of your own make, you might not have the same rules as someone else's campaign.

For example, in a mostly RP based campaign, a half-elf rogue with tons of skills and skill based feats would be immensely "stronger" than the half-orc barbarian. Since the campaign doesn't fight much, most challenges are skill based or RP and the barb is next to useless 90% of the time. However, the reverse might also be true.

As far as this paragraph relates to you and your item, if there is a BBEG and he is super strong, you fight him often, and blah blah blah then the item is super strong. If you simply have a series of equal leveled enemies, or maybe a lot of slightly weaker enemies, then it's not too strong. Or maybe it's a plot device used to keep a certain character alive simply because you don't want them to die, then give them the item and ensure to display its function and don't have it activate until you want it too. Who cares if it's an artifact, since you are the game master you decide when it does and doesn't work.

EDIT: Oh yeah, my main point: Balance isn't always about combat. If combat is just something that is in your campaign because it's inevitable, then it's not the balancing factor, THEN the item that keeps someone alive doesn't really matter.