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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5 PrC] Thaumatomancer, A new kind of theurgy (PEACH)



Xuldarinar
2013-05-16, 02:42 AM
Thaumatomancer
Most are considered fortunate to begin understanding a single form of magic. Thaumatomancers, however, are a rare breed. They begin walking one path of magic then branch into many. Some spread themselves more than than others, dabblers in many arts but still masters of their own, where as others are a bit more focused in their studies.

Hit Die: d4

Requirements
To qualify to become a thaumatomancer, you must meet the following criteria
Skills: Knowledge (any) 4 ranks, and Psicraft 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, or Truespeak 4 ranks
Special: Caster Level 5th, Manifester Level 5th, Meldshaper Level 5th, Able to Bind 3rd level vestiges, or Knowledge of 6 Utterances.

Class Skills
The thaumatomancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all, taken individually), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Truespeech (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Psionic Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

{table=head] Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting/Manifesting/Meldshaping/Binding/Truenameing
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
12th|+6|+4|+4|+8|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
13th|+6|+4|+4|+8|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
14th|+7|+4|+4|+9|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
15th|+7|+5|+5|+9|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class [/table]

Class Features
All of the allowing are class features of this prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A thaumatomancer gains no new proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spellcasting/Manifesting/Meldshaping/Binding/Truespeech: With every level gained in the thaumatomancer class, a character essentially adds one level of this class to the level of any one spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, soul binding, or truenameing class they had previously to entering this class for determining effective level, uses per day and effects known. For meldshapers this includes number of soulmelds, number of chakra binds, essentia pool, and access to higher level chakras, but not the expanded capacity feature. No other class features are advanced- for instance, a cleric in this class would advance spellcasting but would not advance turning/rebuking. If a character could qualify for thaumatomancer with more than one class, he must choose one class that he will advance which cannot later be changed: the strain of practicing thaumatomancy with multiple base magics is too much. The class you choose to advance is referred to as your original spellcasting class (even though many non-spellcasters can become thaumatomancers).

Expanding Discipline: Starting at first level, then once again with every odd number level gained in this class, a character may pick one of the options from the table below. You may not pick the one associated with the class used to enter this prestige class. In order to select one, you must meet it's requirements. When first choosing arcane or divine, you must also select a class from which you will draw your spells. This choice cannot be changed later. You may however, select different expanded disciplines each time you gain this class feature.

{table=head]Discipline|
Requirement|
1st|
2nd|
3rd|
4th|
5th|
6th|
7th|
8th

Arcane|Knowledge (arcana) 4|Arcane spell access (0, 1st), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (2nd), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (3rd), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (4th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (5th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (6th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (7th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (8th), +2 Arcane Spells known
Divine|Knowledge (religion) 4|Divine spell access (0, 1st), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (2nd), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (3rd), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (4th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (5th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (6th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (7th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (8th), +2 Divine Spells known
Corruption|Non-good, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4|Corrupt spell access (1st), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (2nd), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (3rd), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (4th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (5th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (6th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (7th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (8th), +2 Corrupt Spells known
Infusion|Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 4|Infusion access (1st), +2 infusions known|Infusion access (2nd), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (3rd), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (4th), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (5th), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (6th), +2 Infusions known|+2 Infusions known|+2 Infusions known
Invocation|Knowledge (arcana) 4|Eldritch Blast 1d6, Invocation access (Least), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 2d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 3d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 4d6, Invocation access (Lesser), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 5d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 6d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 7d6, Invocation access (Greater), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 8d6, +1 Invocation known
Meldshape|Knowledge (arcane) 4|Chakra Bind access (Crown), 1 Bind, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Feet, Hands), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|2 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Arms, Brow, Shoulders), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|3 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Throat, Waist), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|4 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Heart), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known
Mystery|Knowledge (the planes) 4|Mystery access (Fundamentals, 1st), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (2nd), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (3rd), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (4th), , +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (5th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (6th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (7th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (8th), +2 Mysteries known
Psionic|Knowledge (psionics) 4|Power access (1st), +2 Powers known|Power access (2nd), +2 Powers known|Power access (3rd), +2 Powers known|Power access (4th), +2 Powers known|Power access (5th), +2 Powers known|Power access (6th), +2 Powers known|Power access (7th), +2 Powers known|Power access (8th), +2 Powers known
Sanctification|Good-only, Knowledge (Religion) 4|Sanctified spell access (1st), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (2nd), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (3rd), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (4th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (5th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (6th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (7th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (8th), +2 Sanctified Spells known
Utterance|Preform (oratory) 4|Utterance access (1st, EM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (2nd, EM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (3rd/1st, EM/CT), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (3rd/2nd/1st, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (4th/3rd/2nd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (5th/3rd/2nd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (5th/4th/3rd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (6th/4th/3rd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|
Vestige|Knowledge (history) 4|Soul Binding (1st)|Soul Binding (2nd)|Soul Binding (3rd)|Soul Binding (4th)|Soul Binding (5th)|Soul Binding (6th)|Soul Binding (7th)|Soul Binding (8th) [/table]
Note: EM= Evolving Mind. CT= Crafted Tool. PM= Perfected Map

Levels and Ability Scores: When using a spell, power, or other ability acquired through expanded discipline you follow all the rules and mechanics as normal, with some alterations. You always treat the class level of the new ability as equal to the caster level or equivalent of your original spellcasting class. Any ability requirements are replaced with the matching ability score from your original class, as are abilities for calculating saving throw DCs and so on. For meldshaping, constitution and it's relation to maximum number of melds shaped are treated as equivalent to requiring a high ability score to cast spells, while their relevant ability for save DCs varies (when a melshaper enters this class) or is replaced (when another class gains meldshaping). Maximum essentia capacity is a separate trait that applies to all characters with incarnum feats, and thus is unaltered. If a class has no ability score requirements (such as binders and warlocks), then use the same ability score as their save DCs.

For example, a cleric who takes up meldshaping and shadowcasting would base all their new features on wisdom, including maximum melds shaped, highest level mysteries available, and all saving throws. A Shadowcaster who took up meldshaping and clerical casting however, would base their maximum melds shaped and highest cleric spells known on intelligence, while determining save DCs with charisma.

Limited vs At-Will: the magic systems associated with thaumatomancers are divided into two types, limited and at-will. Limited disciplines include all spell, power, infusion, and mystery users, while at-will disciplines are all invocation, meldshaping, utterance, and vestige users. If your original spellcasting class was limited then any limited abilities you gain cost equivalent amount of resources to use. Spells, mysteries, and infusions occupy the same slots, power point costs are converted to slot levels (and vice versa), and so on. If you prepare spells then you must prepare any new effects as normal, while if you cast spontaneously or manifest powers the new effects are effectively added to your spells known. A mystery user cannot prepare new effects, but instead may spontaneously sacrfice one use of a mystery to activate any new effects he has learned. If you use a spellbook or similar device you must record your new effects in it as if they were spells, but the first copy remains free as normal for spells gained upon level-up. You may modify limited effects gained from expanded knowledge using feats and class abilities as normal for your original casting class, since those effects are treated as both your original class and the new class simultaneously.

Members of at-will disciplines that enter thaumatomancer and gain limited abilities do not gain a whole allotment of spells per day: they instead may use each effect learned 1/day, and may take the same effect multiple times in order to gain extra daily uses. In this case, spells gained from a prepared class count as prepared while those from a spontaneous class are spontaneous, though they may not actually change their prepared spells or drop one spell for another (unless they further gain those abilities from other sources)-each effect is simply useable 1/day. Mysteries gained in this way never cease being arcane spells and do not automatically gain more uses, nor do you gain a power point pool for powers learned.

Finally, at-will powers gained by practitioners of any class remain at-will with no additional costs.

Magic Items: For the purpose of using spell trigger and spell completion items, you gain the spell list of any class you choose an expanded discipline for, up to the highest level spell you are allowed by expanded discipline. As with your personal use, you activate these items with the total caster level or equivalent and appropriate ability scores for your original casting class.

For example, a wizard entering thaumatomancer selects divine (cleric) for their first expanded discipline and is now able to activate spell trigger items for all cleric spells up to 1st level. He may also activate spell completion items for cleric spells with his wizard caster level and uses his intelligence score to determine if he may activate them, but is still limited to 1st level.

The class features you gain from expanded discipline qualify you to activate any other items that involve them, though in some cases you may be more limited in their use than a full practitioner.

Feats and Other Prestige Classes: any abilities gained from expanded discipline may be used to qualify for feats and prestige classes, however any feats or abilities gained that specifically apply only to the expanded discipline are not backwards compatible with your original casting class. For example, a wizard could gain mysteries and take meta-shadow feats, but those feats would only apply to mysteries and could not be used on wizard spells (though he could apply metamagic feats from his original wizard casting to his mysteries, as mentioned above)The DM should allow some conversions based on common sense though: for example, a manifester might want to enter an arcane prestige class in order to gain a bonus on fire powers with elemental savant, or take a feat to reduce a meta-psionics cost. At this level of interaction we cannot possibly anticipate all the outcomes, so it must be left up to the DM and players involved to decide what may be converted and how.
__________________________________________________ _
Tables for Clarification

Cost Table. (Vertical is the Ability, Horizontal is the base class)
{table=head]-|Spellcaster|Infusion-user|Mystery-user|Manifester|Meldshaper|Invocation-user|Binder|Truespeech
Spell|Slot of level|Slot of level|use of mystery of level|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Infusion|Slot of level|*|use of mystery of level|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Mystery|Slot of level|Slot of level|*|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Power|Slot of level|Slot of level|use of mystery of level|*|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Soulmeld|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will
Invocation|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will|At-Will
Vestige related abilities|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will
Truenameing|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*[/table]
* Cannot obtain this ability from the thaumatomancer PrC.
Note: At-will simply means at any time without cost, not as a free action.


Level check table
{table=head]-|Spellcaster|Infusion-user|Mystery-user|Manifester|Meldshaper|Invocation-user|Binder|Truespeech
Spell|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Infusion|Caster Level|*|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Mystery|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|*|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Power|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|*|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Soulmeld|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|*|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Invocation|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|*|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Vestige related abilities|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|*|Truenamer Level
Truepeech|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|*[/table]
__________________________________________________ _

I've come up with a name, though if someone has a better one i'll gladly change it. I got the name, thaumatomancer, from mixing the prefix "thaumato-" (which means combining form), and the suffix "-mancer".

Asside from the name, at this point, simply I want advice and opinions.

Fizban
2013-05-16, 06:29 AM
De-lurking because this is pretty much perfect. For the imperfections: first, "arcane" and "divine," are these intended to be any and all arcane or divine spells, or should you choose a class? (I'd suggest the latter). Oh, and you're missing a HD.

Second, item activation: without a given rule I would by default allow spell trigger and completion items from any spell on your list (chosen as above) up to the level you have access too, but not higher. This is more restrictive than if you just multiclassed, but that's what happens when you expand your spell list level by level instead of learning a new trade (and get to use your full CL instead of a reduced one). It probably wouldn't be a disaster to leave it open though, as long as they have to pick a class to emulate rather than just use every scroll forever.

Third, sanctified and corrupt spells: I don't see why these are only one spell instead of two. They already pay for their power (when they actually have any power) with ability damage, and can be used by any prepared caster regardless of class by default. I also don't agree with dungeoneering for corrupt spells- I'd be using religion, but if you want them to use a different skill that works well enough (of you could be thinking about Heroes of Horror when I go first to Book of Vile Darkness, which is also fine).

Fourth, binding: since someone who just learned vestige binding can only bind one vestige at a time and the only way to get more is when you're specifically told, I would assume that one who gains binding from this PrC would only have one bind? Might want to point that out, otherwise someone might think you can bind as many as you want.

That's all I can think of at the moment, otherwise it's golden. Simple and effective, letting you take any magic and branch into any other magic to add something interesting without losing power (the whole point of a prestige class [after power creep removed all the costs*]). The natural progression means that while you're gaining new abilities consistently they can never overshadow your "old" abilities, and you even get to keep gaining stuff after 15th and 17th ECL- when most prestige classes and spellcasting end, you've still got stuff left to unlock, even if it's a bit dated. On a PC you can pick up any sort of utility that you might otherwise find a cohort or hireling for, on an NPC you can crank up the levels and have magic as strong as the party's on two fronts. Justify the villain's endless magic with a dash of invocations, pick up a hard to block edge of psionics or mysteries, or just dodge Exalted Arcanist when all you want is Luminous Armor.

One of the few benefits of basing everything in DnD on the spellcasting system is that you can mix and match if you just decide you want to.

*If one was going to freak out I suppose you could cut a level of spellcasting at 1st, but it really doesn't need it since the new spells are lower than Mystic Theurge level. Seriously.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-16, 06:50 AM
De-lurking because this is pretty much perfect. For the imperfections: first, "arcane" and "divine," are these intended to be any and all arcane or divine spells, or should you choose a class? (I'd suggest the latter). Oh, and you're missing a HD.

Second, item activation: without a given rule I would by default allow spell trigger and completion items from any spell on your list (chosen as above) up to the level you have access too, but not higher. This is more restrictive than if you just multiclassed, but that's what happens when you expand your spell list level by level instead of learning a new trade (and get to use your full CL instead of a reduced one). It probably wouldn't be a disaster to leave it open though, as long as they have to pick a class to emulate rather than just use every scroll forever.

Third, sanctified and corrupt spells: I don't see why these are only one spell instead of two. They already pay for their power (when they actually have any power) with ability damage, and can be used by any prepared caster regardless of class by default. I also don't agree with dungeoneering for corrupt spells- I'd be using religion, but if you want them to use a different skill that works well enough (of you could be thinking about Heroes of Horror when I go first to Book of Vile Darkness, which is also fine).

That's all I can think of at the moment, otherwise it's golden. Simple and effective, letting you take any magic and branch into any other magic to add something interesting without losing power (the whole point of a prestige class [after power creep removed all the costs*]). The natural progression means that while you're gaining new abilities consistently they can never overshadow your "old" abilities, and you even get to keep gaining stuff after 15th and 17th ECL- when most prestige classes and spellcasting end, you've still got stuff left to unlock, even if it's a bit dated. On a PC you can pick up any sort of utility that you might otherwise find a cohort or hireling for, on an NPC you can crank up the levels and have magic as strong as the party's on two fronts. Justify the villain's endless magic with a dash of invocations, pick up a hard to block edge of psionics or mysteries, or just dodge Exalted Arcanist when all you want is Luminous Armor.

One of the few benefits of basing everything in DnD on the spellcasting system is that you can mix and match if you just decide you want to.

*If one was going to freak out I suppose you could cut a level of spellcasting at 1st, but it really doesn't need it since the new spells are lower than Mystic Theurge level. Seriously.

Glad to finally see a response here, and that it is positive.

I've made a clarification, making it so you can only draw spells and such from a single class.

Set Hit die to d4, as appropriate for a spell casting PrC. I've increased Sanctified and Corrupted to +2 at each. I had a reason for only +1 at each, but I cannot remember it.

edit: As for spell trigger, I agree with the default. Should I put in an entry about that or leave as is?

edit 2: Made a note for binding. Thank you

Fizban
2013-05-16, 07:02 AM
Huh, that's an interesting wording. So I take it you could say, pick up 1st level wizard spells and then pick up 1st level cleric spells? Hadn't considered that (mostly cause I'd never do it myself). I would have gone with a more standard wording of "when you first choose arcane or divine you must also choose a base class from which you will draw your spell list, which cannot later be changed." I also edited in a point about binders while you where posting. (Edit: which you responded to while I was posting, hah!)

Spell trigger/completion items definitely need a clause in the main class, it can be confusing enough sometimes with cross list spells and PrC spell lists and multiclassing and domain powers and bonus domains. There are very few PrCs that build your list in parts so it's not a common thing to rule on and I'd put it in there.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-16, 07:14 AM
Huh, that's an interesting wording. So I take it you could say, pick up 1st level wizard spells and then pick up 1st level cleric spells? Hadn't considered that (mostly cause I'd never do it myself). I would have gone with a more standard wording of "when you first choose arcane or divine you must also choose a base class from which you will draw your spell list, which cannot later be changed." I also edited in a point about binders while you where posting. (Edit: which you responded to while I was posting, hah!)

Spell trigger/completion items definitely need a clause in the main class, it can be confusing enough sometimes with cross list spells and PrC spell lists and multiclassing and domain powers and bonus domains. There are very few PrCs that build your list in parts so it's not a common thing to rule on and I'd put it in there.

Edit:

I've handed spell trigger/completion items, adding an entry. I hope I worded it correctly. I've also specified that you must select a class in regards to arcane and divine.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-16, 08:53 PM
I do have to ask, is there any type of 'magic' I'm missing from the table?
Also, should I include Maneuvers?

Fizban
2013-05-16, 10:16 PM
Looks good. *Digs for more nitpicks* I suppose the Manifesting/Spellcasting section should be Binding/Manifesting/Spellcasting, since binding can't normally be advanced by classes that advance spellcasting. Obviously that's the point here but more precision and all that. Though I'd actually go ahead and order it "Spellcasting/Manifesting/Binding," by familiarity instead of alphabetical.

Come to think of it, I've been assuming that binding a vestige would occupy a slot, but I wasn't doing that for invocations. Even if I want the invocations to be free they should take up a slot like everything else, otherwise you'll have a growing list of exceptions that defeats the purpose. For Binders/etc picking up psionics I'd let them pool the power points myself, but I think that's better left as a DM ruling than putting it in the main (which is clear about simple 1/day uses right now).

The only magic system left out that really comes to mind is Meldshaping, but it doesn't use a standard level based system so it would be a lot harder to incorporate. You'd have to do it by chakra binds instead of levels and state what spell slot they occupy if any (though soulmelds are weak enough they shouldn't) and specify how much essentia and how many melds and binds. Basically all the meldshaper features require explicit statement instead of having an easy level progression. If you wanna give it a try anyway I'll look it over of course.

While maneuvers could be added easily I would be against it. Maneuvers use levels, but they're not magic and a 1/2 BAB/d4 HD class shouldn't pretend it has any business in weapon combat.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-16, 10:36 PM
Looks good. *Digs for more nitpicks* I suppose the Manifesting/Spellcasting section should be Binding/Manifesting/Spellcasting, since binding can't normally be advanced by classes that advance spellcasting. Obviously that's the point here but more precision and all that. Though I'd actually go ahead and order it "Spellcasting/Manifesting/Binding," by familiarity instead of alphabetical.

Come to think of it, I've been assuming that binding a vestige would occupy a slot, but I wasn't doing that for invocations. Even if I want the invocations to be free they should take up a slot like everything else, otherwise you'll have a growing list of exceptions that defeats the purpose. For Binders/etc picking up psionics I'd let them pool the power points myself, but I think that's better left as a DM ruling than putting it in the main (which is clear about simple 1/day uses right now).

The only magic system left out that really comes to mind is Meldshaping, but it doesn't use a standard level based system so it would be a lot harder to incorporate. You'd have to do it by chakra binds instead of levels and state what spell slot they occupy if any (though soulmelds are weak enough they shouldn't) and specify how much essentia and how many melds and binds. Basically all the meldshaper features require explicit statement instead of having an easy level progression. If you wanna give it a try anyway I'll look it over of course.

While maneuvers could be added easily I would be against it. Maneuvers use levels, but they're not magic and a 1/2 BAB/d4 HD class shouldn't pretend it has any business in weapon combat.


Good points. I shall make the necessary adjustments. As for maneuvers, quite right. I could make adjustments to allow for it but it wouldn't be reasonable.

Meldshaping, that is something I'd need to familiarize myself with. I'll need to look into it and see if i can simplify things to the point of easy integration.

Update/edit: I've expanded things to allow for binder progression. As for having a slot cost for vestiges and invocations, I'm not certain if they should. I see your reasoning and as such, have added it.

Update/edit 2: I've added Meldshaping entry and advancement, but not a sub-ability that grants meldshaping. Due to the system by which it exists, i'll need to study it further before possibly coming up with an effective and reasonable means by which it can be added. If anyone has any advice in the matter, I'd love to hear it. I have -never- worked with meldshaping before.

Fizban
2013-05-17, 07:47 AM
The biggest reason I figured they should cost slots is just to match. The first iteration basically said "everything costs something," which is real nice for making it short but also makes you have to charge for invocations and vestiges and stuff. Now that it's getting more specific you can drop it (I agree that the power's really not an issue, invocations and vestiges that are 4-5 levels behind aren't a problem).

The divide between spells/manifesting/infusions and invoking/binding/uttering is good. I'm hesitant to add more language, but you could shorten it to "limited" vs. "at-will." So, "If you entered with a class that uses at-will abilities (warlocks, binders, etc) then you may cast or manifest each spell, power, or mystery you learn 1/day each. If you entered with a class that uses limited abilities (cleric, shadowcaster, etc) then you may still use at-will abilities you learn at no cost, but other limited abilities require an equivalent spell/infusion slot or power point expenditure from your original class. Prepared casters must still prepare their new abilities, while spontaneous casters and manifesters use them in the same manner." Plus the rest you have for mystery conversion can multiple copies and such.

As for meldshaping, well I haven't homebrewed anything for it but I've gone over the system pretty thoroughly for builds and optimising so here we go. Standard PrC meldshaping progression includes shaper level, number of melds shaped, number of binds, and essentia pool. What it doesn't include is new tiers of chakra binds, which only happen when a class or PrC says so. But you know what? That's always been dumb, so just advance it all and to hell with it. Making a shaper expansion is the hard part.

Normally a meldshaper gets all their melds "known" and useable at 1st level (which is a hell of a frontload when you're trying to learn the stuff), but this should stick with limited learning. The Shape Soulmeld feat sets a precedent by giving you one specific soulmeld at a time from any list, but we should probably stick with picking one class even if we're learning one at a time. Incarnates and Totemists max out at 9 melds shaped with 5 binds and 20-26 essentia, with Totemists having less essentia in exchange for their HD/BAB/saves, so I'd compare to the higher Incarnate. At level 15 it's 7/4/12-16. They both gain tier 4 binds (throat and waist) at 14th, with Incarnate gaining heart at 16th. There's 8 instances of Expanded Discipline in the Prestige class.

So, Expanded Discipline [Meldshaping]: pick a base meldshaping class (Incarnate, Soulborn, or Totemist) to choose your soulmelds from, gain one soulmeld known and 2 points of essentia each time you take it. You gain chakra binds as follows:

1st: crown, 1 bind
2nd: feet, hands
3rd: 2 binds
4th: arms, brow, shoulders
5th: 3 binds
6th: throat, waist
7th: 4 binds
8th: heart

I'd initially wanted to get rid of the chakra groupings and just run through the first 8, but then there was nothing to split with the bind slots so instead I alternated. It matches the book better anyway. Gaining the heart bind puts it up there with the Binder on going to a bit higher level than intended, but in both cases the Expanded Discipline leaves out major class features: a real Binder has multiple vestiges and pact augmentations, while a real Meldshaper has the whole list of soulmelds and expanded essentia capacity (at least 2x the options and 50% more power), and these are all class features gained early on in the base classes.

For the lulz, note that Totemists and Soulborns use con as their DC stat (and as their "highest level known" stat I guess, since you can't shape more than con-10 melds even if your table says so). So booyah, con based spellcaster here we come!

And ah, more clarifications: normally Shadowcasters have to learn their mysteries in a specific order within certain groups, does this also apply to Expanded Discipline? Although huh, come to think of it you're still getting just as many and don't have any trouble jumping through the hoops so I guess it doesn't need a special note, just run as normal.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-17, 09:32 AM
The biggest reason I figured they should cost slots is just to match. The first iteration basically said "everything costs something," which is real nice for making it short but also makes you have to charge for invocations and vestiges and stuff. Now that it's getting more specific you can drop it (I agree that the power's really not an issue, invocations and vestiges that are 4-5 levels behind aren't a problem).

The divide between spells/manifesting/infusions and invoking/binding/uttering is good. I'm hesitant to add more language, but you could shorten it to "limited" vs. "at-will." So, "If you entered with a class that uses at-will abilities (warlocks, binders, etc) then you may cast or manifest each spell, power, or mystery you learn 1/day each. If you entered with a class that uses limited abilities (cleric, shadowcaster, etc) then you may still use at-will abilities you learn at no cost, but other limited abilities require an equivalent spell/infusion slot or power point expenditure from your original class. Prepared casters must still prepare their new abilities, while spontaneous casters and manifesters use them in the same manner." Plus the rest you have for mystery conversion can multiple copies and such.

As for meldshaping, well I haven't homebrewed anything for it but I've gone over the system pretty thoroughly for builds and optimising so here we go. Standard PrC meldshaping progression includes shaper level, number of melds shaped, number of binds, and essentia pool. What it doesn't include is new tiers of chakra binds, which only happen when a class or PrC says so. But you know what? That's always been dumb, so just advance it all and to hell with it. Making a shaper expansion is the hard part.

Normally a meldshaper gets all their melds "known" and useable at 1st level (which is a hell of a frontload when you're trying to learn the stuff), but this should stick with limited learning. The Shape Soulmeld feat sets a precedent by giving you one specific soulmeld at a time from any list, but we should probably stick with picking one class even if we're learning one at a time. Incarnates and Totemists max out at 9 melds shaped with 5 binds and 20-26 essentia, with Totemists having less essentia in exchange for their HD/BAB/saves, so I'd compare to the higher Incarnate. At level 15 it's 7/4/12-16. They both gain tier 4 binds (throat and waist) at 14th, with Incarnate gaining heart at 16th. There's 8 instances of Expanded Discipline in the Prestige class.

So, Expanded Discipline [Meldshaping]: pick a base meldshaping class (Incarnate, Soulborn, or Totemist) to choose your soulmelds from, gain one soulmeld known and 2 points of essentia each time you take it. You gain chakra binds as follows:

1st: crown, 1 bind
2nd: feet, hands
3rd: 2 binds
4th: arms, brow, shoulders
5th: 3 binds
6th: throat, waist
7th: 4 binds
8th: heart

I'd initially wanted to get rid of the chakra groupings and just run through the first 8, but then there was nothing to split with the bind slots so instead I alternated. It matches the book better anyway. Gaining the heart bind puts it up there with the Binder on going to a bit higher level than intended, but in both cases the Expanded Discipline leaves out major class features: a real Binder has multiple vestiges and pact augmentations, while a real Meldshaper has the whole list of soulmelds and expanded essentia capacity (at least 2x the options and 50% more power), and these are all class features gained early on in the base classes.

For the lulz, note that Totemists and Soulborns use con as their DC stat (and as their "highest level known" stat I guess, since you can't shape more than con-10 melds even if your table says so). So booyah, con based spellcaster here we come!

And ah, more clarifications: normally Shadowcasters have to learn their mysteries in a specific order within certain groups, does this also apply to Expanded Discipline? Although huh, come to think of it you're still getting just as many and don't have any trouble jumping through the hoops so I guess it doesn't need a special note, just run as normal.

I have now shortened the language a bit, i agree it was getting very wordy. I've added two small sections to help clarify information, just to break things up a bit.

I've added meldshaping as an option, and followed your advice on the matter (as close as I understood. Im still waking up.).

As for that clarification, regarding shadowcasters, i intentionally left that out. It makes sense to do, but being behind and already possessing an understanding of magic one wouldn't necessarily require one to advance as such. The reason it follows those tracks is because knowledge builds upon itself. Also adding that would further complicate things. If someone comes along and thinks I should add that to the language, the perhaps I will.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-17, 11:29 PM
Im liking how this class looks so far. I cannot help but feel something is missing though, but that could just be my imagination. In any case..

1: I feel, while the language covers (almost) everything, its a bit wordy. If someone has a way that it could be shortened and cleaned up a bit, while preserving all meaning, I'd appreciate it.

2: Exploits, I need people to find them and show them to me. You can use abilities gained in this class to meet prerequisites. I've added a clause that removes abuse via dual progression. Otherwise someone could have a caster level of 20 with anything to the effect of: Wizard 5/Thaumatomancer 3/ Mystic Theurge 6.

3: Unique spells. Imagine a set of spells that you could gain access to that require a mix possible with this class. For example: a spell that is both arcane and divine. It would require the ability to cast arcane and divine spells with the same resource. Just wanted to put that thought out there. If someone wants to go with it and is good with making such spells, I more than welcome any added content.

4: Extending from that, possible magical items that would require the unique combination of abilities here that might normally require multiple people or epic levels to achieve.

5: Flavor Text. If someone is good at making it, perhaps then they could help in that. Flavor text is not my forte. Something fitting the overall theme of the prestige class.

6: Is there -anything- i am missing? I really cannot shake that this PrC is missing something.

Fizban
2013-05-18, 05:12 AM
I intend to go through and re-write the whole thing as pretty as I can manage once you/I/the thread run out of ideas, but the meldshaper stuff took most of my homebrew energy for the next couple days. I don't think there's really any exploit aside from the double-dipping you addressed that could be a problem. If a casting prestige class is balanced in itself then it should remain balanced even if you've got access to a bigger spell list, and you'll most likely be entering with equal or less HD/BAB/saves. And even if you go cleric->wizard->wizard PrC to get more hit points before the PrCs, leaving Thaumatomancer means you stop getting wizard spells so really you're just a cleric in a wizard PrC, which is probably worse than a cleric as a cleric. Maybe if you used it to prestige paladin with wizard or warlock casting, but prestige paladin loses a lot of casting fast anway. Abjurant champion off cleric isn't all that impressive either, since once again there's a bigger bonus for the intended class than the "exploit."

For unique spells, well that's an interesting idea but I think it's pretty reliant on setting and the individual characters myself. Most settings say magic is all the same stuff, with the only difference being weather you do it yourself or have a god put the spell in your head-a difference in casting rather than the magic itself. This class lets you branch one magic into new types, which if anything I think would reinforce that it's all the same. If you've got a setting where the source of arcane and divine magic is fundamentally different (say, one comes from earth radiation and the other from heavenly radiation), then a dual spell would make sense, but that's not how I interpret the defaults. But that's me.

For items, there's already stuff like that in the core books actually, though a lot of it's probably just non-existent proof-reading. The standard Shield Guardian for example is supposedly a wizard construct, yet requires a 2nd level cleric spell to craft, so I hope you've got a buddy with lots of time on his hands. I'm also reasonably sure there are a number of Eberron items that just name whatever spell they want, since they assume artificers are making everything and artificers don't care about where the spell comes from.

I'm no good with fluff and I can't think of anything missing either. Unless you want to start making up stuff like a wild shape or shapeshift progression, or something for domain spells, that's all the big magic systems I know of. Homebrews and 3rd parties excluded of course.

Xuldarinar
2013-05-18, 06:07 AM
I intend to go through and re-write the whole thing as pretty as I can manage once you/I/the thread run out of ideas, but the meldshaper stuff took most of my homebrew energy for the next couple days. I don't think there's really any exploit aside from the double-dipping you addressed that could be a problem. If a casting prestige class is balanced in itself then it should remain balanced even if you've got access to a bigger spell list, and you'll most likely be entering with equal or less HD/BAB/saves. And even if you go cleric->wizard->wizard PrC to get more hit points before the PrCs, leaving Thaumatomancer means you stop getting wizard spells so really you're just a cleric in a wizard PrC, which is probably worse than a cleric as a cleric. Maybe if you used it to prestige paladin with wizard or warlock casting, but prestige paladin loses a lot of casting fast anway. Abjurant champion off cleric isn't all that impressive either, since once again there's a bigger bonus for the intended class than the "exploit."

For unique spells, well that's an interesting idea but I think it's pretty reliant on setting and the individual characters myself. Most settings say magic is all the same stuff, with the only difference being weather you do it yourself or have a god put the spell in your head-a difference in casting rather than the magic itself. This class lets you branch one magic into new types, which if anything I think would reinforce that it's all the same. If you've got a setting where the source of arcane and divine magic is fundamentally different (say, one comes from earth radiation and the other from heavenly radiation), then a dual spell would make sense, but that's not how I interpret the defaults. But that's me.

For items, there's already stuff like that in the core books actually, though a lot of it's probably just non-existent proof-reading. The standard Shield Guardian for example is supposedly a wizard construct, yet requires a 2nd level cleric spell to craft, so I hope you've got a buddy with lots of time on his hands. I'm also reasonably sure there are a number of Eberron items that just name whatever spell they want, since they assume artificers are making everything and artificers don't care about where the spell comes from.

I'm no good with fluff and I can't think of anything missing either. Unless you want to start making up stuff like a wild shape or shapeshift progression, or something for domain spells, that's all the big magic systems I know of. Homebrews and 3rd parties excluded of course.

I appreciate all of your help, you've been a great help. I'd love hearing feedback from other people, but at least I'm getting enough feedback to progress.

For the spells, I agree. It is setting reliant. Items, I think you are right on that one. Both however are interesting concepts to mess with, but perhaps that is for another time.

I've considered adding wild shape and similar ability progression, but I feel they would be then just adding a bit much. Domains, I could add them but I don't want to make this even more wordy than necessary. If someone wants domain spells, the arcane disciple feat is incredibly easy to qualify for with this class.

Fluff, I understand that. My best fluff, to be honest, is rewording Shadowcaster fluff.

I refuse to add for homebrew-unique magics. Theres enough out there that it would become ridiculous, fast. Some of it is good, some of it not so much, and adding for all of it would become insane. But, due to the general entry requirements I'm certain the vast majority could enter this PrC anyways. What this class has thus far is fairly solid, I just want to be sure that nothing gets forgotten.

Fizban
2013-05-23, 02:09 AM
Here's my rewrite. I'm aware there's no such thing as "truenamer level," but there has to be in order for entry to work, unless maybe you want to substitute ranks in truespeech-3, but that could be bad.

Thaumatomancer
Most are considered fortunate to begin understanding a single form of magic. Thaumatomancers, however, are a rare breed. They begin walking one path of magic then branch into many. Some spread themselves more than than others, dabblers in many arts but still masters of their own, where as others are a bit more focused in their studies.

Hit Die: d4

Requirements
To qualify to become a thaumatomancer, you must meet the following criteria
Skills: Knowledge (any) 4 ranks, and Psicraft 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, or Truespeak 4 ranks
Special: Caster Level 5th, Manifester Level 5th, Meldshaper Level 5th, Able to Bind 3rd level vestiges, or Knowledge of 6 Utterances.

Class Skills
The thaumatomancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all, taken individually), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Truespeech (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Psionic Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

{table=head] Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting/Manifesting/Meldshaping/Binding/Truenameing
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
12th|+6|+4|+4|+8|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
13th|+6|+4|+4|+8|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
14th|+7|+4|+4|+9|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class
15th|+7|+5|+5|+9|Expanding Discipline|+1 level of existing spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, binding, or truenameing class [/table]

Class Features
All of the allowing are class features of this prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A thaumatomancer gains no new proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spellcasting/Manifesting/Meldshaping/Binding/Truespeech: With every level gained in the thaumatomancer class, a character essentially adds one level of this class to the level of any one spellcasting, manifesting, meldshaping, soul binding, or truenameing class they had previously to entering this class for determining effective level, uses per day and effects known. For meldshapers this includes number of soulmelds, number of chakra binds, essentia pool, and access to higher level chakras, but not the expanded capacity feature. No other class features are advanced- for instance, a cleric in this class would advance spellcasting but would not advance turning/rebuking. If a character could qualify for thaumatomancer with more than one class, he must choose one class that he will advance which cannot later be changed: the strain of practicing thaumatomancy with multiple base magics is too much. The class you choose to advance is referred to as your original spellcasting class (even though many non-spellcasters can become thaumatomancers).

Expanding Discipline: Starting at first level, then once again with every odd number level gained in this class, a character may pick one of the options from the table below. You may not pick the one associated with the class used to enter this prestige class. In order to select one, you must meet it's requirements. When first choosing arcane or divine, you must also select a class from which you will draw your spells. This choice cannot be changed later. You may however, select different expanded disciplines each time you gain this class feature.

{table=head]Discipline|
Requirement|
1st|
2nd|
3rd|
4th|
5th|
6th|
7th|
8th

Arcane|Knowledge (arcana) 4|Arcane spell access (0, 1st), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (2nd), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (3rd), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (4th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (5th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (6th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (7th), +2 Arcane Spells known|Arcane spell access (8th), +2 Arcane Spells known
Divine|Knowledge (religion) 4|Divine spell access (0, 1st), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (2nd), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (3rd), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (4th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (5th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (6th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (7th), +2 Divine Spells known|Divine spell access (8th), +2 Divine Spells known
Corruption|Non-good, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4|Corrupt spell access (1st), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (2nd), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (3rd), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (4th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (5th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (6th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (7th), +2 Corrupt Spells known|Corrupt spell access (8th), +2 Corrupt Spells known
Infusion|Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 4|Infusion access (1st), +2 infusions known|Infusion access (2nd), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (3rd), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (4th), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (5th), +2 Infusions known|Infusion access (6th), +2 Infusions known|+2 Infusions known|+2 Infusions known
Invocation|Knowledge (arcana) 4|Eldritch Blast 1d6, Invocation access (Least), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 2d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 3d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 4d6, Invocation access (Lesser), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 5d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 6d6, +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 7d6, Invocation access (Greater), +1 Invocation known|Eldritch Blast 8d6, +1 Invocation known
Meldshape|Knowledge (arcane) 4|Chakra Bind access (Crown), 1 Bind, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Feet, Hands), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|2 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Arms, Brow, Shoulders), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|3 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Throat, Waist), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|4 binds, +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known|Chakra Bind access (Heart), +2 Essentia, +1 Soulmeld Known
Mystery|Knowledge (the planes) 4|Mystery access (Fundamentals, 1st), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (2nd), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (3rd), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (4th), , +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (5th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (6th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (7th), +2 Mysteries known|Mystery access (8th), +2 Mysteries known
Psionic|Knowledge (psionics) 4|Power access (1st), +2 Powers known|Power access (2nd), +2 Powers known|Power access (3rd), +2 Powers known|Power access (4th), +2 Powers known|Power access (5th), +2 Powers known|Power access (6th), +2 Powers known|Power access (7th), +2 Powers known|Power access (8th), +2 Powers known
Sanctification|Good-only, Knowledge (Religion) 4|Sanctified spell access (1st), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (2nd), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (3rd), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (4th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (5th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (6th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (7th), +2 Sanctified Spells known|Sanctified spell access (8th), +2 Sanctified Spells known
Utterance|Preform (oratory) 4|Utterance access (1st, EM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (2nd, EM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (3rd/1st, EM/CT), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (3rd/2nd/1st, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (4th/3rd/2nd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (5th/3rd/2nd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (5th/4th/3rd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|Utterance access (6th/4th/3rd, EM/CT/PM), +2 Utterances known|
Vestige|Knowledge (history) 4|Soul Binding (1st)|Soul Binding (2nd)|Soul Binding (3rd)|Soul Binding (4th)|Soul Binding (5th)|Soul Binding (6th)|Soul Binding (7th)|Soul Binding (8th) [/table]
Note: EM= Evolving Mind. CT= Crafted Tool. PM= Perfected Map

Levels and Ability Scores: When using a spell, power, or other ability acquired through expanded discipline you follow all the rules and mechanics as normal, with some alterations. You always treat the class level of the new ability as equal to the caster level or equivalent of your original spellcasting class. Any ability requirements are replaced with the matching ability score from your original class, as are abilities for calculating saving throw DCs and so on. For meldshaping, constitution and it's relation to maximum number of melds shaped are treated as equivalent to requiring a high ability score to cast spells, while their relevant ability for save DCs varies (when a melshaper enters this class) or is replaced (when another class gains meldshaping). Maximum essentia capacity is a separate trait that applies to all characters with incarnum feats, and thus is unaltered. If a class has no ability score requirements (such as binders and warlocks), then use the same ability score as their save DCs.

For example, a cleric who takes up meldshaping and shadowcasting would base all their new features on wisdom, including maximum melds shaped, highest level mysteries available, and all saving throws. A Shadowcaster who took up meldshaping and clerical casting however, would base their maximum melds shaped and highest cleric spells known on intelligence, while determining save DCs with charisma.

Limited vs At-Will: the magic systems associated with thaumatomancers are divided into two types, limited and at-will. Limited disciplines include all spell, power, infusion, and mystery users, while at-will disciplines are all invocation, meldshaping, utterance, and vestige users. If your original spellcasting class was limited then any limited abilities you gain cost equivalent amount of resources to use. Spells, mysteries, and infusions occupy the same slots, power point costs are converted to slot levels (and vice versa), and so on. If you prepare spells then you must prepare any new effects as normal, while if you cast spontaneously or manifest powers the new effects are effectively added to your spells known. A mystery user cannot prepare new effects, but instead may spontaneously sacrfice one use of a mystery to activate any new effects he has learned. If you use a spellbook or similar device you must record your new effects in it as if they were spells, but the first copy remains free as normal for spells gained upon level-up. You may modify limited effects gained from expanded knowledge using feats and class abilities as normal for your original casting class, since those effects are treated as both your original class and the new class simultaneously.

Members of at-will disciplines that enter thaumatomancer and gain limited abilities do not gain a whole allotment of spells per day: they instead may use each effect learned 1/day, and may take the same effect multiple times in order to gain extra daily uses. In this case, spells gained from a prepared class count as prepared while those from a spontaneous class are spontaneous, though they may not actually change their prepared spells or drop one spell for another (unless they further gain those abilities from other sources)-each effect is simply useable 1/day. Mysteries gained in this way never cease being arcane spells and do not automatically gain more uses, nor do you gain a power point pool for powers learned.

Finally, at-will powers gained by practitioners of any class remain at-will with no additional costs.

Magic Items: For the purpose of using spell trigger and spell completion items, you gain the spell list of any class you choose an expanded discipline for, up to the highest level spell you are allowed by expanded discipline. As with your personal use, you activate these items with the total caster level or equivalent and appropriate ability scores for your original casting class.

For example, a wizard entering thaumatomancer selects divine (cleric) for their first expanded discipline and is now able to activate spell trigger items for all cleric spells up to 1st level. He may also activate spell completion items for cleric spells with his wizard caster level and uses his intelligence score to determine if he may activate them, but is still limited to 1st level.

The class features you gain from expanded discipline qualify you to activate any other items that involve them, though in some cases you may be more limited in their use than a full practitioner.

Feats and Other Prestige Classes: any abilities gained from expanded discipline may be used to qualify for feats and prestige classes, however any feats or abilities gained that specifically apply only to the expanded discipline are not backwards compatible with your original casting class. For example, a wizard could gain mysteries and take meta-shadow feats, but those feats would only apply to mysteries and could not be used on wizard spells (though he could apply metamagic feats from his original wizard casting to his mysteries, as mentioned above)The DM should allow some conversions based on common sense though: for example, a manifester might want to enter an arcane prestige class in order to gain a bonus on fire powers with elemental savant, or take a feat to reduce a meta-psionics cost. At this level of interaction we cannot possibly anticipate all the outcomes, so it must be left up to the DM and players involved to decide what may be converted and how.
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Tables for Clarification

Cost Table. (Vertical is the Ability, Horizontal is the base class)
{table=head]-|Spellcaster|Infusion-user|Mystery-user|Manifester|Meldshaper|Invocation-user|Binder|Truespeech
Spell|Slot of level|Slot of level|use of mystery of level|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Infusion|Slot of level|*|use of mystery of level|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Mystery|Slot of level|Slot of level|*|Equivalent power points|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Power|Slot of level|Slot of level|use of mystery of level|*|1/day|1/day|1/day|1/day
Soulmeld|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will
Invocation|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will|At-Will
Vestige related abilities|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*|At-Will
Truenameing|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|At-Will|*[/table]
* Cannot obtain this ability from the thaumatomancer PrC.
Note: At-will simply means at any time without cost, not as a free action.


Level check table
{table=head]-|Spellcaster|Infusion-user|Mystery-user|Manifester|Meldshaper|Invocation-user|Binder|Truespeech
Spell|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Infusion|Caster Level|*|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Mystery|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|*|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Power|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|*|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Soulmeld|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|*|Caster Level|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Invocation|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|*|Binder Level|Truenamer Level
Vestige related abilities|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|*|Truenamer Level
Truepeech|Caster Level|Effective Caster Level|Caster Level|Manifester Level|Meldshaper Level|Caster Level|Binder Level|*[/table]
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Xuldarinar
2013-05-23, 02:31 AM
Here's my rewrite. I'm aware there's no such thing as "truenamer level," but there has to be in order for entry to work, unless maybe you want to substitute ranks in truespeech-3, but that could be bad.
..

I appreciate your help. I've just applied the changes.