The Resistance (Beta Team)

[smashbro]

Hey everyone! So, there's this game called the Resistance, similar to Werewolf. It was run here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261075) at least once before, looks like it was abandoned. Below are the rules, but for a simple overview, there is a group of 5 to 10 players, who go on missions. The Resistance members try to get missions to succeed, while the Spies need to fail the missions. Lots of lying, voting, but no players ever get eliminated, so you're guaranteed to be part of the entire game.


Players

{table]Matthias2207|Internet Flea|Zar Peter|Diego Havoc|onion breath|Istari|Hedgehog Ranger|rakkoon[/table]


Missions
{table=head]Mission 1|Mission 2|Mission 3|Mission 4|Mission 5
3 People|4 People|4 People|5* People|5 People
SUCCEED|
FAIL|
FAIL|
FAIL|[/table]


How to Play




Role Assignment

First, I'll assign everyone a role via PM: Resistance Member or Imperial Spy. I will also inform the spies of the identity of the other spies. **Although you know who the other spies are, you may not communicate outside of this thread. This applies to both Resistance and Spies.**




Win Conditions

The Resistance must have 3 out of 5 missions succeed for them to win, while the Spies must fail 3 out of the 5 missions.




Setting Up A Mission

Once everyone gets their roles, a person will be randomly selected to be Leader of the first mission. The Leader will choose who which members will participate in the first mission. The number of players on a mission is different each round, and is based on the total number of players.

The Leader will bold the names they want, then everyone PMs me to either ACCEPT or REJECT the mission. These votes will all be revealed by me. I'll show which players ACCEPTED it, and which players REJECTED it.

If over 50% of the players ACCEPT the mission, then those players will vote on the mission to SUCCEED or FAIL (see below).

Leadership passes to the next player. If the last mission was REJECTED, then the new leader repeats this step. **5 rejected missions means that the spies win the game.**




Going On A Mission
Once a mission is accepted, the players on the mission PM me if they would like to SUCCEED or FAIL the mission. Once all players PM me, I will reveal the results, but not who sent me which result.

**If all players choose to SUCCEED the mission, it SUCCEEDS and the Resistance is closer to winning. If there is even 1 vote to FAIL the mission, the mission FAILS and the Spies are closer to winning.**

After this, the next mission starts, with a new leader.




Overview

No talking out of thread
Spies want to Fail Missions
Resistance must Succeed missions
Leader chooses who goes on a mission
Everyone votes, majority rules
5 rejections, and Spies win
People on a mission choose for it to Succeed or Fail
Best 3 out of 5 missions wins






That should be everything you need to know, any questions, feel free to ask.

[Internet Flea]

Ooh, thread's up!

[smashbro]

"BETA TEAM! I'M YOUR COMMANDER, COMMANDER SMASH. I GIVE MISSIONS, YOU DO THEM RIGHT!

YOUR FIRST MISSION IS TO STEAL RESEARCH DOCUMENTS ON THE NEW WEAPON THEY ARE DEVELOPING.

Matthias2207! CHOOSE 3 MEMBERS OF BETA TO BE ON THE FIRST MISSION."



So yeah, thread's up. Also, like I mentioned in the other thread, this setup is open, 5 resistance members, 3 spies.

[Matthias2207]

Okay... According to the strategy guides I should avoid the next leader, and I assume that's Internet Flea.
I choose myself, rakkoon and Hedgehog Ranger.

[Internet Flea]

I guess we should clarify, can we send the same group twice in a row, or is there a certain number of different people we have to have?

Because I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run Matthias' team, and if it succeeds to run the same people and me.

[HedgehogRanger]

I vote to accept the mission

[Istari]

Voting no because blindly agreeing this early robs us of data.

[Internet Flea]

We aren't even voting on anything yet, Matthias didn't bold any names.

[HedgehogRanger]

Sorry, I probably should have read the rules more thoroughly :P

[onionbreath]

Because I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run Matthias' team, and if it succeeds to run the same people and me.

If you all want to do the heavy lifting, fine with me, I guess. It's certainly safer to stay back at base and play table tennis. But do we still get paid if we don't get to run any missions? Family to feed and all, ya know.

[Matthias2207]

Ah yes, bolding.
Do we PM our accept/reject votes so nobody can base their vote on previous votes?

Well, I want myself on a mission, because only I can be trusted. It doesn't give me too much information, but it helps to prove my innocence and it gives the other players just as much information as any other player.
Matthias
Then if we go with IF's plan, which is the strategy the guides all recommended, I avoid leader material and choose two players from the bottom of the list (or what I think is the right in this case)
So that would be rakkoon and Hedgehog Ranger
@onionbreath: You want to go on a mission, because if we fail 3 missions everybody dies. You can only trust yourself with such important matters. Well, yourself and me, of course, because I'm the most trustworthy person on this side of the galaxy.

[onionbreath]

Sorry for any confusion about my earlier message

Of course I only trust myself, so I'm not really in favor of a plan that says I'm not going on the first two missions. (My question was just some silly banter in a attempt to create some IC personality).

On the other hand, I assume that everyone wants to go on the mission, and clearly everyone can't vote down every mission plan that doesn't include them.

Matthias, you refer to a strategy guides when explaining your team selection. Can you either link to such a guide or summarize the reason why 1,7,8 is the optimal selection?

(to answer your question, votes are PMed to smashbro and revealed after all votes are cast.)

[Matthias2207]

This (http://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/4719/optimal-or-just-effective-strategy-for-the-resistance) is the tactic I'm using.
(I got the roleplay part, I was just wondering what part was play and what part was you seriously considering it.)
RE: PM - I see the mechanic, but is that the reason?

[Istari]

The PMs are there so they're revealed simultaneously, but there is nothing wrong with revealing which way you intend to vote (Though, limiting the information the spies have can be advantageous)

[onionbreath]

Ok thanks. I was asking since I had browsed a few strategy articles on BoardGameGeek.com and didn't find anything regarding team selection. I did find a variety of other "always do this" tips that contradicted each other though :smalltongue:

(I'm intentionally keeping this post short to avoid monopolizing the conversation.)

[Internet Flea]

This (http://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/4719/optimal-or-just-effective-strategy-for-the-resistance) is the tactic I'm using.
That's why I asked about the ability to just keep sending the same people. I think the first game on here made it so the party had to be different every time.

[smashbro]

to clear up questions:

the same team can be sent on multiple missions, and in some instances should

you may reveal what you plan on voting here, but it is not official until you pm me, as someone said.

that being said, i have 1 pm so far, so only 1 vote for the proposed team

edit: very interested in the link you posted, want to read through it and might reply, some of the ideas about playing are very different from my group at college. doesnt really have much to do with this game, but wanted to comment on it as a player

edit2: not necro'ing the thred, but interesting read

[rakkoon]

Hey, Thread is up.
And I'm selected? Jee wiz. I wanna go!

[smashbro]

A few announcements.

Waiting on 3 more responses. The person who proposes the mission also needs to accept or reject it.

When PM'ing me, please mention if you're on Alpha or Beta. If you don't include it, not a huge deal, it's just helpful to see right away which thread you belong to.



Also, gonna make up a rule that if a person does not accept or reject by Thursday, they will abstain, and will not be counted in the vote (if the three people left were to not vote, there would only need to be 3 out of 5 votes to accept or reject the mission.) Not a great solution, but I don't want the games to stall too long.

[smashbro]

Matthias, Hedgehog Ranger, AND rakkoon! EMBARK ON YOUR MISSION! MAKE THE RESISTANCE PROUD!

Each of you should now PM me if you would like to help the mission SUCCEED or cause it to FAIL.




ACCEPTED:
Zar Peter
Matthias
Diego Havoc
Internet Flea
Hedgehog Ranger
rakkoon

REJECTED:
Istari
onion breath

[Matthias2207]

What if some resistance troll decides to fail the mission?:smalleek:

[rakkoon]

We kill him (or her )!
I thought I accepted the mission btw. Remember typing it....
Perhaps my PM was intercepted by the spies ?

[smashbro]

I thought I had remembered seeing a rakkoon pm about accepting, but couldn't find it. I've changed him to accepting the mission, since he indicated in thread he would accept before the reveal, and it wouldn't have mattered anyway, the mission would have been accepted without his vote.

Also, Resistance members are not allowed to vote to have a mission FAIL, as per the rules. There's really no strategic reason to do this either, as it doesn't help the Resistance win, and only confuses fellow Resistance members.




CONGRATULATIONS! WE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY STOLEN THEIR PLANS FOR ENERGY POWERED UNDERWEAR! NOW WE WILL BE ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THEM WHEN OUR ENERGY SWORDS LOSE POWER, WE CAN RECHARGE THEM EASILY! OF COURSE, YOU WILL HAVE YOUR CHOICE OF BOXERS OR BRIEFS.

INTERNET FLEA. YOU MUST NOW CHOOSE 4 MEMBERS OF THE TEAM TO INFILTRATE THE UPCOMING GALA FOR ONE OF THEIR COMMANDERS.


The messages I received were:

SUCCEED
SUCCEED
SUCCEED

[HedgehogRanger]

I wonder what team Internet Flea will pick :smalltongue:

[Internet Flea]

Well, we don't it to be exactly the same, so instead of Matthias, rakkoon and Hegdehog Ranger it'll be Hedgehog Ranger, Internet Flea, Matthias and rakkoon.

Totally different.

[rakkoon]

I accept . lots of small animals in this group :)

[smashbro]

Waiting on PMs to accept or decline the group

[smashbro]

Hedgehog Ranger, Internet Flea, Matthias and rakkoon! THEIR COMMANDER SHALL NOT SURVIVE THE GRAND GALA IN HIS HONOR.

Members of the team should PM me to SUCCEED or FAIL the mission



ACCEPTED:
Zar Peter
Matthias
Diego Havoc
Internet Flea
Hedgehog Ranger
rakkoon
Istari

REJECTED:
onion breath

[rakkoon]

Where are my energy powered socks?

[smashbro]

I TOLD YOU TO GIVE THE COMMANDER HIS "JUST DESSERTS"!!! NOT TO GIVE HIM JUST DESSERT!!! HIS LEVEL CAKE DID NOT ACTUALLY EXPLODE!!! SOMETHING MUST HAVE GONE WRONG!!!


MAKE SURE YOU COMPLETE THE NEXT OBJECTIVE. YOU MUST SMUGGLE CAMERAS INTO THEIR ANDROMEDA CAMP. SO THAT WE MAY SPY ON THEIR COMMANDER AND GAIN INTEL. THIS IS A 4 PERSON MISSION. Zar Peter, YOU MUST CHOOSE WHO WILL JOIN THIS MISSION.

WE ARE ALSO BACKWARDS ENGINEERING THE UNDERWEAR SO THAT WE MAY PROVIDE YOU WITH SOCKS.




What I received:

SUCCEED
SUCCEED
SUCCEED
FAIL

[Internet Flea]

Alright, something to work with now. Logic says rakkoon's the spy, gut says Matthias, and paranoia says HedgehogRanger.

Also I thought it would take two fails to kill a mission so that's unfortunate.

And why is onionbreath rejecting everything?

[smashbro]

Also I thought it would take two fails to kill a mission so that's unfortunate.

Two fails on a mission would mean there needs to be more Spies to make it somewhat likely to happen, so it's only 1 to fail.

On special missions though, it will take 2 to fail, such as the 4th mission in this game (We are currently decided on the squad for mission 3). This usually happens once a game in larger games, I know it never happens with 5 players.

[onionbreath]

And why is onionbreath rejecting everything?

1) I voted against the team on mission 1 because it's boring sitting in the command center playing table tennis, working everyone at Hold'em, and watching M.A.S.H. reruns. The team for the next mission was already basically determined before the mission 1 vote and I wasn't on either one.
2) I also voted against the team on mission 1 because I only trusted myself and I'm 5th in the leader rotation.
3) I voted against the mission 2 team because I was pretty damn sure there was a saboteur.

Flea, you say that:
Logic says rakkoon's the spy Can you please explain your reasoning? It's not the conclusion I came to.
My logic pins you as the spy.
You knew Matthias's team would succeed on mission 1. For this reason, you heavily endorsed it and established yourself as team 2 leader while the rest of us were still putting our pants on.

I'm not done, but I'll slow-roll this hand and keep the last hole card hidden for now.

[Internet Flea]

Basically it's just that rakkoon's comments have been late in the days and entirely about being on the missions, which seems like filler. Looking back, there wasn't as much as I thought to suggest it's him.

In fact it backs up my gut on Matthias a bit.


For this reason, you heavily endorsed it and established yourself as team 2 leader while the rest of us were still putting our pants on.

I was already going to be the Team 2 leader, unless I deliberately refused the role. Also you're overstating it; I was actually hoping smashbro would shoot it down, because while it's the most logical option for the resistance to take it's also the most boring and anticlimactic if it actually works.

And obviously I know I'm not the spy so my logic isn't going to tell me that. :smallwink:

[HedgehogRanger]

I was actually hoping smashbro would shoot it down, because while it's the most logical option for the resistance to take it's also the most boring and anticlimactic if it actually works.

Hey, a boring, anticlimactic win is still a win. Anyway, if I had to guess, the spy was probably in the first group, of which, Matthias seems more suspicious, but I could be totally wrong about that.

[Internet Flea]

Hey, a boring, anticlimactic win is still a win. Anyway, if I had to guess, the spy was probably in the first group, of which, Matthias seems more suspicious, but I could be totally wrong about that.

Please explain why Matthias is more suspicious to you.

[Istari]

I agree with the Internet Flea is a spy train of thought, not fullproof by any means, but a spy should have sabotaged the first mission. With a two person mission you might not want to, but with three it is definitely advantageous to sabotage

[rakkoon]

Basically it's just that rakkoon's comments have been late in the days and entirely about being on the missions, which seems like filler. Looking back, there wasn't as much as I thought to suggest it's him.

It was filler. Nothing was being said for an eternity and there wasn't much to go on.
Internet Flea is acting weird but that's not entirely unusual.
The first group … the enemy would probably send a succeed in the first mission to avoid suspicion so we only know for certain that there is a spy in the last group. Divide them up in two halves for the next mission?

[Matthias2207]

So the next group would have Zar Peter, two out of the last four and a random new player?
Then if it fails, we have a spy in either the old two or the new two?
(If it succeeds, we've pretty much won.)

[rakkoon]

We can hope for three fails and never use them again? :smallsmile:

[Matthias2207]

Smart spies make sure only one fails. They are in contact, right?

[rakkoon]

Checks first post…not unless they are cheating

[Zar Peter]

Ok, my gut feeling says that either Matthias or HedgehogRanger or both are not to be trusted currently. So I hope Internet Flea and rakkoon will help me to succeed the mission. As fourth I will take onionbreath because he entertained me with his table tennis at the base.

So Team 3:

Zar Peter, Internet Flea, rakkoon and onionbreath.

[HedgehogRanger]

Please explain why Matthias is more suspicious to you.

It's a gut feeling, which very well could be wrong.

[onionbreath]

So Team 3:

Zar Peter, Internet Flea, rakkoon and onionbreath.

Well, this is an interesting dilemma...

[Internet Flea]

I've got a bad feeling about onionbreath, so I'm going to have to reject this one.

If we can get Zar Peter, rakkoon, Internet Flea and Diego Havoc I'd feel better about it.

[HedgehogRanger]

I've got a bad feeling about onionbreath, so I'm going to have to reject this one.

If we can get Zar Peter, rakkoon, Internet Flea and Diego Havoc I'd feel better about it.

I'm rejecting it for the same reason. However, in your alternate team, why do you want Diego Havoc?

[Internet Flea]

I'm rejecting it for the same reason. However, in your alternate team, why do you want Diego Havoc?

I think either you or Matthias is a Spy, so you're both out.

Onionbreath and Istari were both against the original team and are both saying I look spyish, so I'm thinking they're Spies 2 and 3.

That only leaves Zar Peter, rakkoon, me and Diego Havoc.

[smashbro]

I was already going to be the Team 2 leader, unless I deliberately refused the role. Also you're overstating it; I was actually hoping smashbro would shoot it down, because while it's the most logical option for the resistance to take it's also the most boring and anticlimactic if it actually works.

I'm not going to "shoot down" any sort of mission or strategy, I'm just here to tell you guys if you succeed or fail.


Smart spies make sure only one fails. They are in contact, right?

No, they should not be in contact. It is possibly that a mission of 3 people could be all spies, and turn up with only one fail. At the same time, it could turn up with 3 fails. If spies could talk, it would be too easy, and there wouldn't be any risk to have more than one spy on a team.

[onionbreath]

I think either you or Matthias is a Spy, so you're both out.

Onionbreath and Istari were both against the original team and are both saying I look spyish, so I'm thinking they're Spies 2 and 3.


This is interesting. Note that we were also the only two to vote against that team. If your logic were correct, that would mean:
one spy accepted the team and then allowed the mission to succeed (plausible)
two resistence members accepted the team because they were on it. (likely)
two spies rejected the team that had a spy (unlikely, especially with no PM to coordinate and seats 2, 3, 4 all held by resistance)
three resistence members accepted the team for little reason (unlikely)

I'm new to this game, but this seems like a strange voting result.

[Matthias2207]

I don't have a problem with OB. I have a problem with rakkoon on the team and with me off the team, so I'm rejecting this.
@Internet Flea: Why do you trust rakkoon?

[HedgehogRanger]

Internet Flea, I am curious as to why you trust rakkoon so much. Care to explain?

[Zar Peter]

Ok, to explain my team:

I know that I'm no spy so I'm on it.

HedgehogRangers commentaries are making me suspicious so he's out. I don't have to take that risk.

rakkoon and Matthias are close, could be that both are spies or both are not. Both spies is a bit tough when I take into account that I think HedgehogRanger is one so there would have been three spies in the team round 3. I don't think the spies could have managed to coordinate that only one of them votes failure. Of the both I think rakkoon is a bit less suspicous than Matthias so Matthias is out.

Internet Flea is acting very convincingly. I'm pretty sure he's save but, well, I have an record here of being completely false. Nevertheless, he's in my team.

From the ones who didn't join a team yet onionbreath was the most vocal one and he didn't sound spyish. I don't remember anything Diego Havoc said and I found one post of Istari so they both could try to lie low. Could be desinterest because they aren't in a team yet, too.

[Internet Flea]

This is interesting. Note that we were also the only two to vote against that team. If your logic were correct, that would mean:
one spy accepted the team and then allowed the mission to succeed (plausible)
two resistence members accepted the team because they were on it. (likely)
two spies rejected the team that had a spy (unlikely, especially with no PM to coordinate and seats 2, 3, 4 all held by resistance)
three resistence members accepted the team for little reason (unlikely)

I'm new to this game, but this seems like a strange voting result.

It's a strange voting result regardless of if you two are both spies or not, plus you've both said you thought it was me which is yet another connection between you. Of the two of you Istari is more suspicious but I don't trust either of you over anyone else.

I don't have a problem with OB. I have a problem with rakkoon on the team and with me off the team, so I'm rejecting this.
@Internet Flea: Why do you trust rakkoon?
I went back and didn't see anything from rakkoon that particularly stood out.

I saw your comment about people failing a mission even though they need it to succeed, and it reminded me of a lot of comments by wolves in the werewolf games. So I trust you less than rakkoon right now.

And HedgehogRanger has been parroting people all day today which is super wolfy, and had no logic when I asked about you. So I trust him less than you right now.

[smashbro]

First, I probably should mention, all votes are in aside from Diego Havoc.



Just needed to post an update about when I'll be around.

I will not be able to come online Sunday through Tuesday, so the next time I'll be able to post is Tuesday night (16th to 18th). After that, I won't be available from Thursday until Monday night (20th through 24th).

After that, I should be on at least as much as I am now, but don't expect the game to get very far for a while.

That being said, I'm sure there'll be plenty to talk about, at least in this thread, so it shouldn't slow you down too much.

[rakkoon]

Just a small observation, Internet flea says that I'm a spy at the top of the page and now Matthias asks why IF trusts me. Then Matthias and I are obviously "very close". I have no problem with making friends but I'm a little bit worried about some of the conjectures here.

This being said I accepted the mission because I saw no reason why a non-wolf would not accept a mission (first time I play this particular game).
Of course, if onion breath is a spy (why else would he not accept the first couple of missions) we should reject. Now the consensus is that onion is not a spy? I'm going to let my vote stand and see how it works out

Cool game, didn't understand how this game worked completely but I can see how you can get as paranoid as a hobbit at Gollum camp after two days.

[Matthias2207]

Just a small observation, Internet flea says that I'm a spy at the top of the page and now Matthias asks why IF trusts me. Then Matthias and I are obviously "very close". I have no problem with making friends but I'm a little bit worried about some of the conjectures here.

Completely missed that. So why does he say he trusts you if his logic says you're a spy?

I don't think he means "very close" as in BFFs. More like 'similar probability of being a spy.'

Also, if Hedgehog Ranger is a spy (pretty likely), would that clear the other three? I can't see myself not failing the second mission without knowing what the other spies are doing if there's more than one spy on a team.

[onionbreath]

Also, if Hedgehog Ranger is a spy (pretty likely), would that clear the other three? I can't see myself not failing the second mission without knowing what the other spies are doing if there's more than one spy on a team.

The others aren't necessarily cleared. Clever spies can send signals through the public messages.
That's why I've been so suspicious of Internet Flea. I think there was at least one spy on the first team, and this message was signaling that spy or spies to stay low on the first two missions. I admit it's entirely possible that I'm reading too much into this.


Because I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run Matthias' team, and if it succeeds to run the same people and me.

[Internet Flea]

This being said I accepted the mission because I saw no reason why a non-wolf would not accept a mission.

Apparently the current consensus is that either I or onionbreath are a spy. We should reject the mission on the grounds that it has both of us in it, as the last thing we need is a failure with both of us in the group.

[rakkoon]

Good point actually. I'll send Smashbro a pm to change my vote.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Okay, sorry guys, I haven't really been paying attention to this one. I sent off PMs without really thinking about them, planning to "look into it tomorrow" in each case. This is my first post :smallredface:.

Uh, no real ideas from me at the moment, but I'll send in my vote now.

[smashbro]

I CAN SEE ZAR PETER IS POPULAR. ANYWAY. THAT MEANS, DIEGO HAVOC, YOU GET TO CHOOSE THE 4 PLAYERS FOR THIS MISSION.


Also, just so it's said in the thread, votes can be changed up until the point that I post them. This is still considered during discussion, so people can change their minds.

As soon as I receive the final vote, I will post it. However, if the last person sends me a vote at 7:00, someone changes their vote ate 8:00 and I see them at 9:00, the vote will be changed.


ACCEPT
Zar Peter

REJECT
Diego Havoc
rakkoon
Istari
Hedgehog Ranger
Matthias2207
Internet Flea
onion breath

[Zar Peter]

Wow. Just wow. I think that means I haven't understood the game yet...

[Beacon of Chaos]

Bluh, too tired right now. Post suggestions and I will get back to you guys tomorrow.

[onionbreath]

Hmmm, too bad we couldn't even get useful voting results out of this. I had confidence that the resistance members would vote against the team. I had hoped (until Flea's last post anyway) maybe a spy would slip up and approve the team.

Diego, I wish you luck in forming this team. Are there even 4 people that the group trusts enough to send on a mission at this point? There have been a lot of accusations thrown around lately. For myself, I trust that Istari is one of the resistance. Remember his advice from the first round?
Voting no because blindly agreeing this early robs us of data.
That additional data would certainly be helpful now.

I would offer this advice to those of you attempting to root out the spies; do not consider each person individually. For example, there has been a lot of speculation that either Flea or I are a spy. Do not ask yourself simply and separately, "Is Internet Flea a spy?" or "Is onionbreath a spy?". Instead ask, "Assuming Internet Flea is a spy, what else is most likely true? What contradictions arise?" and "Assuming onionbreath is a spy, what else is most likely true? What contradictions arise?"

[Internet Flea]

Bluh, too tired right now. Post suggestions and I will get back to you guys tomorrow.

Replace either me or onionbreath with you.

[Matthias2207]

Replace either me or onionbreath with you.

Onionbreath in that case. Only one person from last mission on the team gives us almost no information.

While you're at it, take out rakkoon and replace him with Hedgehog or me. I'm not sure if Hedgehog can be trusted, but I trust rakkoon less.

[Zar Peter]

Well, I can live with replacing onionbreath with Diego Havoc but I doubt I will accept a mission with Matthias. It's a gut feeling but I trust him less than rakkoon.

[Internet Flea]

I wouldn't reject a mission just because it had Matthias in it, but I do think there's a high chance of that mission failing.

[rakkoon]

I don’t trust Onion Breath and Internet Flea in this particular game.
Hedgehog ranger is acting weird
Zar Peter put onion breath and IF in his list
Matthias is suddenly on my case …
and we have to send in 4....excrement

I would suggest Diego Havoc, Rakkoon, Istari and Zar Peter

[onionbreath]

Rakkoon, I am sorry that you do not trust me. Can you explain why?

As for Internet Flea, here is why I cannot shake the feeling that he is a spy and that the first team had at least one spy. Immediately after Matthias suggested the first team, IF said:

Because I'm thinking it would be a good idea to run Matthias' team, and if it succeeds to run the same people and me.

Would a resistance member send such a message so early? Possibly, but I think it's a strategic mistake. It's basically saying, "Hey there, spies. If any of you are on the first mission, you can lay low for now and then sabotage the second mission, framing me in the process."

Would a spy send such a message so early if he knew the first team was entirely made of resistance members? Probably not; he would already be the most suspicious member due to the mission results anyway, and there isn't anyone else to cover for or any risk of a double fail.

As the next team, I suggest Diego Havoc, onionbreath, Istari, Matthias.

[Istari]

My only worry is the number of people who passed the first mission, I reasonably trust Onionbreath and myself (obviously) meaning there were multiple spies who approved the first mission, either because they thought declining would be risky, which I find unlikely considering I publicly announced my intention to decline or they were happy with the mission results and whoever there wanted to frame IF.

[Internet Flea]

It's basically saying, "Hey there, spies. If any of you are on the first mission, you can lay low for now and then sabotage the second mission, framing me in the process."

It was actually an attempt to say, "you spies need to kill this now because it's staying this way", at which point we could look for the people who rejected it.

And I'm autorejecting a team with Matthias, Onionbreath and Istari on it. That's all of my spy suspects besides HedgehogRanger.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Alright, current plan is: Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Rakkoon and Diego Havoc.

[onionbreath]

It was actually an attempt to say, "you spies need to kill this now because it's staying this way", at which point we could look for the people who rejected it.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it that way before. Now (if you are truly a resistance member), I understand why you suspect Istari and me of being spies.

That being said, I refute your premise that anyone who rejects the initial team is a spy. After all, you have five chances to build a team for each mission, so you might as well gather some more information first.

Keep in mind, I am still highly suspicious of you. However, I recognize that there is a non-zero chance of us both actually being resistance members, in which case our current approach is going to doom us.

[Internet Flea]

That being said, I refute your premise that anyone who rejects the initial team is a spy.

Nothing is for certain, but they have a higher chance of being a spy in my opinion. The fact that you and Istari have repeatedly said you trust each other drives it higher still.

[Istari]

Nothing is for certain, but they have a higher chance of being a spy in my opinion. The fact that you and Istari have repeatedly said you trust each other drives it higher still.

I trust him under the logic that as a Resistance member there is unlikely to only be one spy unhappy with the team and vote no, making it reasonably likely that he is another Resistance member who voted no with the same logic as me.

[onionbreath]

Nothing is for certain, but they have a higher chance of being a spy in my opinion.

So, in other words, people who blindly accept the first (or first two!) missions when they are not on those missions (and have no information) are more likely to be resistance? I respectfully disagree.

[rakkoon]

That is indeed the reason I don't trust you. By rejecting you say we can learn more. Can you explain that one?
I thought it was by seeing if the missions fail or not that we can learn something. After two missions we can deduce stuff and refuse a mission with possible spies. What can you learn by simply rejecting the first couple of missions if there is no other way of getting information?

[onionbreath]

That is indeed the reason I don't trust you. By rejecting you say we can learn more. Can you explain that one?
I thought it was by seeing if the missions fail or not that we can learn something. After two missions we can deduce stuff and refuse a mission with possible spies. What can you learn by simply rejecting the first couple of missions if there is no other way of getting information?

I can (sort of) explain it.
I looked at the first team and saw only a 57% chance that it was led by a fellow resistance member. Since the leader basically chose randomly with no other information, it can be further broken down:

4/35 ~ 11% chance of fully resistance team
12/35 ~ 34% chance of resistance leader, 1 spy on team
4/35 ~ 11% chance of resistance leader, 2 spies on team
3/7 ~ 43% chance of spy leader (cannot be broken down further since team is non-randomly chosen at this point, even if hidden under the guise of randomness)

I didn't like the 11% chance that the team was correctly chosen, so I rejected it.

[rakkoon]

okay. You rejected it. how would the next team be any different ? it's still random since we have no info about missions failing or succeeding.

(also, I need to work on my math skills since I have no idea what you just calculated :-) )

[Istari]

okay. You rejected it. how would the next team be any different ? it's still random since we have no info about missions failing or succeeding.

(also, I need to work on my math skills since I have no idea what you just calculated :-) )

But you do know the people who supported a mission that was likely to fail. If this was an experienced group, the fact that someone supported a mission that they weren't on round one is extremely suspicious.

[Zar Peter]

But you do know the people who supported a mission that was likely to fail. If this was an experienced group, the fact that someone supported a mission that they weren't on round one is extremely suspicious.

But the fact that the chances don't change in the second and third round stands. If I reject the first mission because of that I would have to reject the next mission because of this, too. Until the point where I'm the leader of the team. But then the others should reject the mission because of this. In the end the spies win because of five rejected mission without any information.

[onionbreath]

But the fact that the chances don't change in the second and third round stands. If I reject the first mission because of that I would have to reject the next mission because of this, too. Until the point where I'm the leader of the team. But then the others should reject the mission because of this. In the end the spies win because of five rejected mission without any information.

I disagree. During the second vote, there is potential information contained in the first round team selection and votes, as well as the post-vote discussion. The second leader is no longer selecting purely at random (and as such, the probability equations are no longer completely applicable.)

I make no claim as to how much information this adds. However, it is hard to imagine a scenario where we would have less information than we do right now. We have very little objective data, wildly divergent interpretations of the small amount of data that exists, and 6 people under fairly heavy suspicion.

(additionally, it's almost certain that the 5th team would be approved 8-0 no matter who was on it unless people are just plainly not thinking)

[rakkoon]

wow. that means that if we were experienced players we could spend five missions not accepting them and then analyse what everyone thinks about that. cool concept but how paranoid would you be after that ?

[smashbro]

Sorry I haven't been around, was visiting a friend, just got back.

*** Important Note on Rule That I Was Wrong About ***


So, I've been checking the rules online, and the special rule about rejecting missions 5 times means 5 rejections in a row, not 5 rejections overall. So if for Mission 1, the first four teams are rejected, then the fifth accepted the counter resets. Mission 2 could be rejected four times again.





The team of Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Rakkoon and Diego Havoc has been proposed by Diego Havoc. Waiting on Matthias2207 to vote on this mission.

Also, you do have to send in your vote, even if you propose the mission.

[smashbro]

THE TEAM HAS BEEN ACCEPTED! Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Rakkoon and Diego Havoc, DO US PROUD!

The four of you should now send me to accept or reject the mission.



ACCEPTED
Matthias
Diego
rakkoon
onionbreath
Zar Peter
Internet flea

REJCTED
Hedgehog Ranger
Istari

[Istari]

So Matthias is probably a spy.

[Internet Flea]

...Iana?

Also I'm pretty sure I accepted that team.

[rakkoon]

Iana Flea, scourge of the playground :smallwink:

[onionbreath]

Changing your name mid-game is pretty obvious spy behavior if you ask me :smalltongue:

[Internet Flea]

Iana Flea, scourge of the playground :smallwink:

Which makes the other player Internet Obsidian.

...I'm okay with that. :smallcool:

[Zar Peter]

Hussah! No more table tennis watching at last.

Iana Flea sounds good by the way :smalltongue:

[smashbro]

...Iana?

Also I'm pretty sure I accepted that team.


That would be correct, sorry for the mix up. Iana is in the other game, and probably rejected theirs. So yeah, I messed up.

Also, I've been incredibly busy lately since I started a job. I will have time to be online tomorrow. I think the votes are in, but I don't have much time to post anything right now.

[Istari]

So, we voted for a somewhat random team of Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Rakkoon and Diego Havoc.
With 8 players and 3 spies, if you voted yes on this mission but weren't on it, you had to be confident that every single choice was correct.
Thus Matthias is probably a spy, and Internet flea almost certainly is, since he didn't trust Onionbreath. Then one more spy who is actually on the team.

[Internet Flea]

and Internet flea almost certainly is, since he didn't trust Onionbreath.

I felt I couldn't reject the team after stating we needed to replace one of us and getting what I asked for.

[Matthias2207]

Well, it was the least awful team I could think of, apart from one with me on it and that wasn't happening anytime soon. So I just accepted.

[smashbro]

WHAT HAPPENED ON THIS MISSION?!? WE CANNOT AFFORD ANOTHER SCREW UP. THE ONLY INFORMATION WE RECEIVED ABOUT THE ENEMY WAS THAT THEY HAVE CHICKEN NUGGET THURSDAYS!


THIS MISSION WILL REQUIRE OUR MEN TO GO UNDER COVER AND DESTROY THEIR TRAINING ACADEMY. PLANT THE EXPLOSIVES AT THE FOUNDATION OF THEIR BUILDING, AND WE CAN TAKE OUT MANY NEW, PROMISING RECRUITS FOR THEIR ARMY. THIS IS A 5 PERSON MISSION. onion breath, YOU MUST CHOOSE WHO WILL JOIN THIS MISSION.

BY THE WAY, WE HAVE NOW STOCKED OUR KITCHENS WITH CHICKEN NUGGETS.



Messages I received:
SUCCEED
SUCCEED
FAIL
SUCCEED



*** Important note, this mission takes 2 FAIL requests in order for the mission to FAIL, so there can be one spy on this mission, and it can succeed. ***

[Internet Flea]

WHAT HAPPENED ON THIS MISSION?!? WE CANNOT AFFORD ANOTHER SCREW UP. THE ONLY INFORMATION WE RECEIVED ABOUT THE ENEMY WAS THAT THEY HAVE CHICKEN NUGGET THURSDAYS!


THIS MISSION WILL REQUIRE OUR MEN TO GO UNDER COVER AND DESTROY THEIR TRAINING ACADEMY. PLANT THE EXPLOSIVES AT THE FOUNDATION OF THEIR BUILDING, AND WE CAN TAKE OUT MANY NEW, PROMISING RECRUITS FOR THEIR ARMY. THIS IS A 5 PERSON MISSION. onion breath, YOU MUST CHOOSE WHO WILL JOIN THIS MISSION.

BY THE WAY, WE HAVE NOW STOCKED OUR KITCHENS WITH CHICKEN NUGGETS.


*** Important note, this mission takes 2 FAIL requests in order for the mission to FAIL, so there can be one spy on this mission, and it can succeed. ***

How many failures did this one have?

[smashbro]

How many failures did this one have?

sorry, changed the vote about, it was 3 succeed, 1 fail.

[onionbreath]

Ok team. For your convenience I have compiled the voting results so far.
Seating order:
Matthias2207 Internet Flea Zar Peter Diego Havoc onion breath Istari Hedgehog Ranger rakkoon

Team 1A: Matthias, Hedgehog Ranger, Rakkoon
ACCEPTED: Matthias, Internet Flea, Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, Hedgehog Ranger, rakkoon
REJECTED: onionbreath, Istari
results: 3 SUCCEED

Team 2A: Matthias, Internet Flea, Hedgehog Ranger, Rakkoon
ACCEPTED: Matthias, Internet Flea, Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, rakkoon
REJECTED: onionbreath
results: 3 SUCCEED, 1 FAIL

Team 3A: Internet Flea, Zar Peter, onionbreath, rakkoon
ACCEPT: Zar Peter
REJECT: Diego Havoc, rakkoon, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Matthias2207, Internet Flea, onionbreath

Team 3B:
Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, Onionbreath, Rakkoon
ACCEPTED: Matthias, Internet flea, Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, onionbreath, rakkoon
REJCTED: Hedgehog Ranger, Istari
results: 3 SUCCEED, 1 FAIL

[Matthias2207]

Rakkoon was on both failed missions, I say we leave him out of the next team.

[onionbreath]

What we know for sure:
In combination, Teams 2A and 3B had seven people and only two FAIL actions. Rakkoon was the only common team member. Istari was not on either team.

(Edited - correcting mistake in table)
This means that either:
a - Rakkoon is not a spy and Istari is a spy.
b - Rakkoon is not a spy, Istari is not a spy, one team had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.
c - Rakkoon is a spy, Istari is a spy, one team had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.
d - Rakkoon and Istari are both spies, both teams had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.
d - Rakkoon is a spy, Istari is not a spy, both teams had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.
e - Rakkoon is a spy, Istari is not a spy, one team had three spies but coordinated votes correctly.

I can't find any evidence of spy-to-spy communication on team 3B so I think there was only one spy there. I'm fairly confident in Istari being a resistance member due to the content of his posts so far. That leaves conclusion b:
Rakkoon is not a spy, Istari is not a spy, one team had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.

Votes from formation of teams 3A and 3B point to Matthias and Internet Flea as the most likely spies.
Of Zar Peter and Diego Havoc, I think Diego is more likely to be the spy. My suspicion is based mainly on the seating arrangement. If the spies were seated 1, 2, 3 I think we would have seen a different strategy play out. (note also that Diego hasn't communicated much, would could be an attempt to avoid saying something self-incriminating.)

I would like your opinions on the team of:
Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Rakkoon.
(this is not the official submission)

Please keep in mind:
- If only one spy is on this team it will still succeed. Therefore, if you think that at least two of members left off the team are spies, you should approve it.
- If you don't want someone on the mission, please say who you would replace that person with. Recall that after this mission succeeds, we will need to be perfect on the next mission.

[Internet Flea]

I'm wondering why you think it's impossible for rakkoon to be a spy without Istari being one.

[rakkoon]

on holiday without internet. an expensive quick reply.
I don't see a relationship between me and Istari either but I'm the only one I'm sure of of course.
I would keep onion breath and matthias out of the missions so I have mixed feelings about the proposed team

[rakkoon]

on holiday in Holland without internet. an expensive quick reply.
I don't see a relationship between me and Istari either but I'm the only one I'm sure of of course.
I would keep onion breath and matthias out of the missions so I have mixed feelings about the proposed team. I'll be back online on Friday

[onionbreath]

I'm wondering why you think it's impossible for rakkoon to be a spy without Istari being one.
That's a mistake. Sorry. That should have said:

d - Rakkoon is a spy, Istari is not a spy, both teams had two spies but coordinated votes correctly.
e - Rakkoon is a spy, Istari is not a spy, one team had three spies but coordinated votes correctly.

Of those cases, I think (e) is plausible but (d) is not. Unfortunately, my suggested team could fail if (e) is true. I could fix that by sending team 3B+Istari. While there's certainly one spy on that team, I'm pretty sure there is only one, so it would be safe.

(to clarify, it's not that I think there is anything directly connecting them. It's that each of them has one unique characteristic in regards to the teams I am analyzing. Rakkoon was on both teams, Istari was not on either. Since there are a fixed number of resistance members and spies, those two individuals need special consideration when crunching the numbers)

Sorry for the confusion. I can wait a few days to submit the team so Rakkoon can rejoin the discussion.

[Matthias2207]

I think I can live with this team.


on holiday in Holland without internet.

How is this even possible (https://maps.google.nl/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=map+of+mcdonald's+in+netherlands&fb=1&gl=nl&hq=mcdonald's&hnear=0x47c609c3db87e4bb:0xb3a175ceffbd0a9f,Nederl and&view=text&ei=pmnUUbj1G8OqPMOjgZAG&ved=0CDEQtQM). Unless you mean one of the other Hollands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_(disambiguation)) of course.

[Zar Peter]

I think I can live with this team.



How is this even possible (https://maps.google.nl/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=map+of+mcdonald's+in+netherlands&fb=1&gl=nl&hq=mcdonald's&hnear=0x47c609c3db87e4bb:0xb3a175ceffbd0a9f,Nederl and&view=text&ei=pmnUUbj1G8OqPMOjgZAG&ved=0CDEQtQM). Unless you mean one of the other Hollands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_(disambiguation)) of course.

I wouldn't write my forum password in a McDonalds internet entry (I take it as given that he has no laptop with him). It's bad enough the NSA knows it (that's a guess, no certainty).

And I can live with this team, too. I think there is one spy in it (my stomach is more in direction of Hedgehog Ranger) but I doubt there are two of them.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Votes from formation of teams 3A and 3B point to Matthias and Internet Flea as the most likely spies.
Of Zar Peter and Diego Havoc, I think Diego is more likely to be the spy. My suspicion is based mainly on the seating arrangement. If the spies were seated 1, 2, 3 I think we would have seen a different strategy play out. (note also that Diego hasn't communicated much, would could be an attempt to avoid saying something self-incriminating.)
I'll be honest, I haven't communicated much because I don't really understand this game and how to analyse it.

I do think your analysis was good though.

Since you seem to think that either myself or Zar is the spy I guess I will have to assume the latter.


I would like your opinions on the team of:
Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Rakkoon.
(this is not the official submission)
Well, I know I'm not a spy, so there must be at least one spy on that team. To be honest, I figure there's probably two there, but I don't know who. If Zar is one, then I guess I'd probably reject this team and suggest putting me instead. But I guess that's what a spy would say?

[HedgehogRanger]

I'm good with this team. I'm still a little suspicious of rakkoon, because he was on both the missions that failed, but I think that at this point these 5 are probably the 5 I trust the most.

[rakkoon]

I meant in the Netherlands without free internet and only roaming as an option. last year they had free wifi. not this year. Roaming is expensive :)
I'm back...well I was on both teams so I would actually agree that I'm very suspect. Unfortunately I have never and cannot ever let a mission fail since I'm only allowed to send succeed! Feel free to swap me to make sure ...

[onionbreath]

OK. Having seen no major objections over the last couple days I suppose it's time to vote officially.

Team 4A - Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Rakkoon.

[Internet Flea]

And now I get to tell everyone to reject this team in order to make - is Istari next? - Istari put one together. We can reject up to four teams in a row without consequence, and we should take advantage of it here.

EDIT: That is to say, even if you like the team, we should still make Istari, Hedgehog Ranger and/or rakkoon put one together just to see what they do.

[onionbreath]

And now I get to tell everyone to reject this team in order to make - is Istari next? - Istari put one together. We can reject up to four teams in a row without consequence, and we should take advantage of it here.


That's mostly true. The consequence of rejecting four teams in a row is that Matthias would get to choose the team without a vote. If he's a spy, that's an automatic loss for the resistance.

[Matthias2207]

We probably shouldn't let it come to that, but the rest of the plan is good.

[Zar Peter]

I'm ok with the plan but I wouldn't reject it more than twice. Oh, and I have only 1 week, then I'm in Greece for on week. Maybe they have WIFI there but I have no laptop with me so it's one week without me.

[rakkoon]

This game can take a long time :smalltongue:
We'll see what the next leader brings to the game !

[smashbro]

Waiting on votes still, but yes, this game can take a while over the internet. Heck, even in rel life it can take a while if people argue a lot.

[onionbreath]

Thanks for hosting, smashbro. This is a fun game so far.
I will have to look for this the next time I go to my local game store.

[rakkoon]

It's a boardgame too?
(goes to google)

[Matthias2207]

Do you need anything to play this IRL?

[Internet Flea]

Do you need anything to play this IRL?

Dynamite..

[Istari]

Do you need anything to play this IRL?

Some tokens/cards for voting/tracking things. There's also an expansion pack that adds cards that have various effects, such as allowing someone to reject the current team.

[smashbro]

Yeah, it's a card / board game type thing. not exactly necessary as you can tell from this, but definitely helpful and I wouldn't mind spending a some money to support a game I like. All comes in one box, all players have to bring is themselves.




FINE! IF YOU THOUGHT THE LAST TEAM WASN'T RIGHT, IT'S YOUR TURN TO DECIDE Istari!!!


APPROVE:
onionbreath
Istari


REJECT:
Internet Flea
Diego Havoc
Zar Peter
Hedgehog Ranger
rakkoon
Matthias2207

[Istari]

Okay, well I'm going with a similar team under my earlier logic of Internet Flea and Matthias2207 being spies, taking out Rakkoon under the possibility that he has been the spy on every mission.

Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Diego Havoc.

[Internet Flea]

And I'll reject this one on the grounds that I'm not on it and that means there's at least one spy.

Also, if I'm wrong about onionbreath being a spy then Diego Havoc probably is, so switching him into the group doesn't give me any confidence.

EDIT:That is, confidence in Istari or the group he picked.

[onionbreath]

Serious response: In that case, who do you trust to pick the team, considering that one of the remaining potential captains must be a spy?
(in case you are curious, I'm approving this team. I think Istari was 80% correct and that's good enough.)

Goofy I-watch-too-many-kids-shows-not-by-choice response:
I think the team is 80% correct. 80% is about a C. C is for Cookie; that's good enough for me.

Half-crazy response:
http://assets1.ignimgs.com/vid/thumbnails/user/2012/09/20/AceAttorney5-1_small.jpg OBJECTION!
Internet Flea, you've already established that you trust Diego Havoc more then yourself. Consider the vote record from mission 3:
Team 3A: Internet Flea, Zar Peter, onionbreath, rakkoon
Internet Flea REJECTS

Team 3B:
Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, Onionbreath, Rakkoon
Internet Flea ACCEPTS

Therefore, if you think Diego is a spy, you must also be a spy!

[Internet Flea]

Internet Flea, you've already established that you trust Diego Havoc more then yourself. Consider the vote record from mission 3:
Team 3A: Internet Flea, Zar Peter, onionbreath, rakkoon
Internet Flea REJECTS

Team 3B:
Zar Peter, Diego Havoc, Onionbreath, Rakkoon
Internet Flea ACCEPTS

Therefore, if you think Diego is a spy, you must also be a spy![/COLOR]

I wanted to establish that a team with you on it and not me would fail, which it did.

I've seen nothing to change my mind that you, Istari and Matthias are the three spies. Therefore I will approve a party with everyone else on it.

[onionbreath]

I wanted to establish that a team with you on it and not me would fail, which it did.

To what end? So the two of us can be even at 0-1?
Putting your own team behind on purpose is a questionable strategy for a resistance member.



I've seen nothing to change my mind that you, Istari and Matthias are the three spies. Therefore I will approve a party with everyone else on it.

I know you've suspected Istari and me from round 1 since we were the only ones who didn't approve a random team that neither of us were on. However, I'll offer you some advice and a question. It takes 5 votes to approve a team. I don't anticipate much support for a team that includes you, Rakkoon, and Hedgehog. How do you plan to turn that around?

[Internet Flea]

So obviously the alternative to having the majority oppose me is to approve a team I don't trust that will likely lose the game.

...and didn't you say you thought rakkoon was a resistance member? Why should there be trouble getting him on a team?

[onionbreath]

...and didn't you say you thought rakkoon was a resistance member? Why should there be trouble getting him on a team?
I can cast only one vote for each team you know. Besides, if my opinion counted for as much as this question implies, the Resistance would have already won.

[Internet Flea]

Well, it seems like every decision has stemmed from one of us so far this game. If we're agreed on something it should be a breeze.

[onionbreath]

I have posted a lot but you overestimate my ability to influence others. 3 of my 5 team votes were on the minority side and I couldn't get my team approved.

[Internet Flea]

Well I'll do it then.

Everyone should reject Istari's team because it doesn't have rakkoon on it.

Also just because we can have one spy on a team this time around doesn't mean we should approve a team we know has at least one spy on it.

[rakkoon]

I want a t-shirt that says "Everyone should reject the team that doesn't have rakkoon on it." :D

seriously though, I would still rather see my name instead of onion breath. I'm going for reject.
If I'm not trusted I'm willing to sit this one out (we haven't lost then, right?). So you guys decide. theoretically we can reject each team we're not on ourselves and still get a accept. In that case I would prefer one without onion.

[Internet Flea]

If I'm not trusted I'm willing to sit this one out (we haven't lost then, right?).

If you and I are both resistance, which is likely, then yes we have.

[rakkoon]

aha .... then I reject most strongly until we have a team without vegetables and with the karate critter!

[onionbreath]

I can sit out this mission as long as both Internet Flea and Matthias also sit out. There's almost certainly no other team that I can accept if I'm not on it.

[Matthias2207]

It's slightly worrying that nobody seems to trust me.

[rakkoon]

hey. I just got killed in a coa game where someone's first guess was that I always wear red silk underwear. now that is worrisome.
ahum. back to this game

[onionbreath]

It's slightly worrying that nobody seems to trust me.

Even though I don't trust you, I would be happy to co-found a Nobody Trusts Me support group with you. What you do say? I'll bet we could get a lot of members.

There are no annual dues because we'd never be able to elect a treasurer :smallamused:

[Matthias2207]

Don't worry, I don't take it personally, but if nobody trusts me, I'll never get on a team. That leaves one spot for a spy to take. So I feel like I should do something about it before we lose, but I have no idea what I should do to gain some trust. I mean, this post probably makes everything worse.

[rakkoon]

It's a weird but fun game. I probably suspected everyone at some point but we don't know anything for certain. So you have to choose what to believe and check whether your theory is supported by the evidence. So you might or might not be a spy. Let's just hope that we make the right choices as a group.

[smashbro]

Sorry for not being around, very busy with work lately. So far I have received votes from Istari, onionbreath, internet flea, rakkoon, Matthias, and Hedgehog Ranger.

[onionbreath]

No problem. Thanks again for narrating.

I think Zar Peter is without internet access until tomorrow (based on announcement in Fleas of Schmoo game).

I did recently replace Diego in a different game; maybe he's really busy right now?

[Zar Peter]

Back from holidays. I send in my vote just now (after rereading the thread).

[Beacon of Chaos]

Oh, uh, I forgot about this.

I sent in my vote, but if you wanted to replace me, that'd be fine. I'm not really into in this game anymore.

[onionbreath]

Has everyone voted yet?

[rakkoon]

yup . I'm a good boy :smallwink:

[Internet Flea]

So, considering how long the game is going without updates and the fact that one player has already said they don't really want to play anymore, I propose we end the game, and then we can reveal roles, how many people accepted/rejected this group and find out whether town would have lost today or not.

[HedgehogRanger]

Well according to posts by smashbro, Zar Peter, and Diego Havoc, all the votes should be in, which means that smashbro has yet to post the vote results.

[rakkoon]

Go Smash GO! :smallsmile:

[smashbro]

Zar Peter, Onionbreath, Istari, Hedgehog Ranger, Diego Havoc. YOU WILL TAKE OUT THEIR TRAINING SCHOOL WITH EXPLOSIVES! GO TEAM GO!


APPROVE:
Diego Havoc
Istari
Hedgehog Ranger
Matthias
onionbreath


REJECT:
Zar Peter
rakkoon
Internet Flea





Ok, so, I'm sorry for being so late on this, I had literally no time off on the weekend, and so when I had time off later this week, I just wanted to sleep. Sorry for not being on as much I should, but I ask that you guys just stick with it for a little bit longer.

The people on the team should send me their votes ASAP, I can't guarantee time on tomorrow, but I would be able to post Friday.

[Internet Flea]

Welp, Matthias approved the team, that means town lost.

Well played, spies.

[onionbreath]

Welp, Matthias approved the team, that means town lost.

Not necessarily. There are a couple plausible scenarios for success even with the way the voting went.

If we lose here, I hope everyone's final thoughts as we face capture and torture are "I guess Onionbreath's team would have succeeded after all" :smallsmile:

[rakkoon]

So if there are two spies in that team (duh, I'm not on it) and they vote fail, we lose the entire game?

Excrement....I bought the boardgame btw :smallsmile:

[Matthias2207]

I don't think I did that...
07-13-2013, 12:39 PM I rejected it, but it looks like smashbro misunderstood 07-14-2013, 02:59 AM, because I put my reject in the title and some filler in the body.

[rakkoon]

So we still have a chance?

Smash? You're the boss

[smashbro]

So sorry, everyone, I just saw "according to plan" in the body of the message and assumed you wanted to go with that team. The votes should have read:


APPROVE:
Diego Havoc
Istari
Hedgehog Ranger
onionbreath


REJECT:
Zar Peter
rakkoon
Internet Flea
Matthias


And the teams would be rejected. Nothing was revealed about anything, so we can keep playing if we want. Let me know here if you want to end the game and have role reveals, or if you would like to continue.

In the meantime, it would be Hedgehog Ranger's turn to pick a team.

[rakkoon]

I vote for continuing, just need to get a bit more speed in the game :smallsmile:

Real life wins, smash, every time. Never say that you got a divorce or lost you job because you were leading a game. Perhaps send a PM to the players that the game is on again? Some players might not check that often anymore

So Hedgehog, what do you think?

[onionbreath]

I would like to hear Zar Peter's reasons for rejecting the team and who he thinks should be on it instead.

[HedgehogRanger]

I'm thinking onionbreath's team, which is Zar Peter, Istari, rakkoon, onionbreath, and HedgehogRanger. However, I'd like your thoughts before I submit it.

[Internet Flea]

I could go either way on the game continuing. Like rakkoon said, the current speed is really hurting.

Back to the game, I just realized Istari's team only had one member of the Day 2 team on it and left the other three off. How many spies does everyone think were in the Day 2 mission? Any mission with fewer than that number of members without the number of remaining members

We should reject any team that has fewer than (4-x) Day 2 members, where x is the number of spies we think it had.

Feeling better about Matthias now, and worse about Hedgehog Ranger and Istari.

[HedgehogRanger]

Back to the game, I just realized Istari's team only had one member of the Day 2 team on it and left the other three off. How many spies does everyone think were in the Day 2 mission? Any mission with fewer than that number of members without the number of remaining members

We should reject any team that has fewer than (4-x) Day 2 members, where x is the number of spies we think it had.

Feeling better about Matthias now, and worse about Hedgehog Ranger and Istari.

Alright, you make some good points. How about HedgehogRanger, Internet Flea, Zar Peter, rakkoon, and onionbreath?

[Internet Flea]

My suspect list has changed from Istari, onionbreath and Matthias to Istari, onionbreath and Hedgehog Ranger, so I'll reject any team with two of them on it. I may or may not reject a team with one of them on it.

[onionbreath]

Internet Flea, why are you still so convinced I'm a spy? Is it just out of habit at this point? The only actual reason I recall you listing is that I rejected the first two teams (which I wasn't on.) We've since established that that is legitimate resistance behavior.

You have an extensive pattern of not explaining why you trust or suspect someone. I think this makes you very hard to trust. Constantly flinging things against the wall to see what sticks is definite spy behavior.

[smashbro]

I vote for continuing, just need to get a bit more speed in the game :smallsmile:

Real life wins, smash, every time. Never say that you got a divorce or lost you job because you were leading a game. Perhaps send a PM to the players that the game is on again? Some players might not check that often anymore

So Hedgehog, what do you think?

I'll PM people soon, ask them in that. Yeah, the pacing has been slow, sorry for that. Works much better in real life. Anyway, on to PMs.

[Zar Peter]

So, since I got an pm I'm going to say that I want to continue the game.

And I rejected the team because I'm following Internet Flea who said that we should reject the next two teams just to see where we are. I don't really have much clue about who's a spy and who not. Stomach feeling about Hedgehogranger and Matthias but that's not enough.

[Istari]

I will probably reject any team without me on it, and I would like to continue playing.

[Internet Flea]

Internet Flea, why are you still so convinced I'm a spy?

A complete unwillingness to try to get rakkoon on the team when you previously stated you thought he was town. Your total trust in Istari, who just put a team together that only makes sense if you assume all three spies were in the Day 2 group.

...I want to put a third thing here but nothing comes to mind.


Constantly flinging things against the wall to see what sticks is definite Internet Flea behavior.
Fixed that for you. :smallsmile:

[HedgehogRanger]

Alright, the official team is HedgehogRanger, Istari, Zar Peter, onionbreath, and Internet Flea

[Internet Flea]

Which we should all reject again.

[onionbreath]

A complete unwillingness to try to get rakkoon on the team when you previously stated you thought he was town.
Huh?
Now you're just making stuff up. Please quote where this happened.

I'll have time for a more thorough response tonight.

[Internet Flea]

(in case you are curious, I'm approving this team. I think Istari was 80% correct and that's good enough.)


I don't anticipate much support for a team that includes you, Rakkoon, and Hedgehog. How do you plan to turn that around?


...and didn't you say you thought rakkoon was a resistance member? Why should there be trouble getting him on a team?


I can cast only one vote for each team you know. Besides, if my opinion counted for as much as this question implies, the Resistance would have already won.

There we are. Effectively "rakkoon's town but don't worry about it."

[onionbreath]

That's a rather willful misinterpretation of what I said made by removing context. Are you playing a game or writing negative political campaign ads?

Edit: After closer analysis, I'm retracting the first sense and replacing it with: "That's blatant falsification and/or bad logic". For example:

Which we should all reject again.
There is no "again". We never voted on this team.

Spoilered for length

A complete unwillingness to try to get rakkoon on the team when you previously stated you thought he was town.
None of the quotes you presented show any unwillingness by me to put rakkoon on a team. Nothing I have said since claiming he is a resistance member contradicts that claim.
Fact 1: I put rakkoon on my team and voted for the team.
Fact 2: I established my reasoning for trusting rakkoon. You correctly called out a mistake in my proof and I corrected it.
Fact 3: I offered to vote in favor of a particular team that had rakkoon and not me. (disclaimer: I'm no longer able to promise that vote due to newly raised doubt about Matthias's role)


Your total trust in Istari, who just put a team together that only makes sense if you assume all three spies were in the Day 2 group.
EPIC LOGIC FAIL. I concluded that there were two spies on team 2; specifically, you and Matthias. If I believe my own conclusions, I have to vote for Istari's team because it only has one spy on it and that's good enough for this mission.

You seemed to make a big deal about this quote of mine:

I don't anticipate much support for a team that includes you, Rakkoon, and Hedgehog. How do you plan to turn that around?
However, I don't understand why. This is an observation I made based on everyone else's comments. I can still trust rakkoon and make this statement without any contradictions.

On to other topics
- I don't understand the point of rejecting teams just for the hell of it. Using more chances to build a team is generally fine because more votes and more discussion should lead to more information. However, if people change their votes solely to force more votes, the accuracy of voting information is decreased.

- I admit to being less sure of my convictions on a few people for two reasons:
1) Meta-game circumstances. I'm not sure how reliable those are though.
2) I am having a hard time differentiating between sabotage and (what I consider to be) tactical mistakes by fellow resistance members.

- I bought the board game last week too. Smashbro, you should get a commission or something :smallbiggrin:. And don't worry about the delays. As Rakkoon said, real life always wins.

[HedgehogRanger]

Also, if we keep playing we should probably consider what to do about Diego Havoc:


Oh, uh, I forgot about this.

I sent in my vote, but if you wanted to replace me, that'd be fine. I'm not really into in this game anymore.

[Internet Flea]

Ah, so many things to respond to, and I don't want this to turn into text wall debates.

I'll just cover the key points.

EPIC LOGIC FAIL. I concluded that there were two spies on team 2; specifically, you and Matthias. If I believe my own conclusions, I have to vote for Istari's team because it only has one spy on it and that's good enough for this mission.

Which misses evades the point. Istari put together a team that fairly guarantees at least one spy on it, therefore Istari is probably a spy. Onionbreath made several statements over several days that he trusts Istari, so if Istari is a spy onionbreath is probably a spy. Your vote for that team is irrelevent.


I don't understand the point of rejecting teams just for the hell of it.

I called to reject your team partly because the team you formed told us something about you that could be used to make more informed decisions about which teams to send, and partly because I think your team would have cost us the game. I've called to reject every subsequent team because I think they'll cost us the game.

[onionbreath]

Which misses evades the point. Istari put together a team that fairly guarantees at least one spy on it, therefore Istari is probably a spy. Onionbreath made several statements over several days that he trusts Istari, so if Istari is a spy onionbreath is probably a spy. Your vote for that team is irrelevent.
Seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
Newspaper message board trolls would be appalled by the lack of logic in this argument.
The team for mission 4 will fail IF AND ONLY IF there are two or more spies on it.

Even if you assume everyone knows with 100% certainly who is on each team:
FOR THIS PARTICULAR MISSION, putting together a team with one spy is still a win for this resistance and does not make you a spy.
FOR THIS PARTICULAR MISSION, voting for a team with one spy is still a win for this resistance and does not make you a spy.
Stop making arguments based on false premises. You're better than that, or at least you should be.

[Internet Flea]

The team for mission 4 will fail IF AND ONLY IF there are two or more spies on it.


The team for mission 5 will mostly like be the team from mission 4. Even if it isn't, we're not going to have a whole lot more information tomorrow that we don't have today. There is no good reason to deliberately design a team that would not pass mission 5.


You're better than that, or at least you should be.

I don't see why, it's worked for me up to now. :smallsmile:

[Internet Flea]

Actually, I make a good point.

This team has onionbreath and Internet Flea on it. It is practically guaranteed to have at least one spy. Since Hedgehog Ranger designed it, it is likely Hedgehog Ranger is a spy. If Hedgehog Ranger is a spy, this team has two spies.

Therefore everyone should reject this mission.

[HedgehogRanger]

Actually, I make a good point.

This team has onionbreath and Internet Flea on it. It is practically guaranteed to have at least one spy. Since Hedgehog Ranger designed it, it is likely Hedgehog Ranger is a spy. If Hedgehog Ranger is a spy, this team has two spies.

Therefore everyone should reject this mission.
I'm actually pretty sure that both of you are Resistance. Internet Flea is such an obvious spy that I don't actually believe he's a spy, and onionbreath's actions don't seem consistent with what I'd expect from a spy.

[onionbreath]

(Edit: Hedgehog's post came in while I was writing mine. I did not see his while writing my message)


The team for mission 5 will mostly like be the team from mission 4.
Obviously. It will have 4 or 5 of the members from team 4.


Even if it isn't, we're not going to have a whole lot more information tomorrow that we don't have today.
Untrue. If team 4 succeeds, we will know for certain that at least 2 of the spies were on the bench, and that team 5 must have at least 4 members from team 4. That significantly increases the odds of selecting the correct team for mission 5. That objective information is in addition to whatever we can piece together from voting data and discussion.



There is no good reason to deliberately design a team that would not pass mission 5.
Untrue. There is a scenario where this would make sense, which I'll explain below. (I'll set aside for the moment that just because YOU claim there is a spy on the team does not mean there is actually a spy on the team.)


This team has onionbreath and Internet Flea on it. It is practically guaranteed to have at least one spy.

Probably. I'm 91% certain of this (and I know I'm not a spy). There's still a non-zero possibility that we are both resistance and the spies are standing by while we bicker our way to a loss. I haven't forgotten this. I think you have.


Since Hedgehog Ranger designed it, it is likely Hedgehog Ranger is a spy.
Untrue.
I think that at this point, it's clear that we are not both spies. Therefore, if Hedgehog is resistance, and is confident he can pick two other resistance members, it's completely rational for him to build a team with both of us in it. It's safer for him than picking one of us if he doesn't know who to pick.



If Hedgehog Ranger is a spy, this team has two spies.

Probably. I'm 91% certain of this (and I know I'm not a spy).



Therefore everyone should reject this mission.

Untrue. If you think this team has four (or more) resistance members on it, you should approve it. If not, you should reject it.

(Remember, seating order is important here. If you think this team will succeed, that means you think matthias or rakkoon (or both) is a spy. Keep in mind that one of them will choose the team if hedgehog's fails.)

Note that I'm not saying ahead of time how I will vote for this team. I've gotten screwed on that the last two times. I'm only bringing up topics for discussion and consideration.

[HedgehogRanger]

A paragraph explaining why Internet Flea and onionbreath are both resistance members

Alternatively, maybe I'm wrong and one of you is a spy, but regardless, that's only one spy on this team, and I trust the other three pretty solidly, so there would still be only one spy on this team.

[Internet Flea]

If you think this team has four (or more) resistance members on it, you should approve it. If not, you should reject it.

Related to this, I think everyone should probably state which of the four they think are the resistance members on the team. I don't want to lose the game because two resistance members both thought a team they weren't on had four resistance.

Obviously I think it only has two, Zar Peter and myself.

[HedgehogRanger]

Related to this, I think everyone should probably state which of the four they think are the resistance members on the team.

I think that we're all resistance members. If I had to pick a spy, I'd probably say Internet Flea or maybe Istari.

[onionbreath]

Related to this, I think everyone should probably state which of the four they think are the resistance members on the team.
Sorry, bud. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, extra shame on me.

The last two times I gave my opinion on a team you immediately discredited me (even if you had to contradict things you previously said) and swung people the other way. This time you have to wait.

[Internet Flea]

Sorry, bud. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, extra shame on me.

Well I haven't gotten to fool anyone else yet, so let's get those answers, People I Haven't Contradictorily Discredited!

[rakkoon]

I switched from "actually everybody is pretty ok" to "Damn, they're all spies" again.
Ah well. Of the team
"HedgehogRanger, Istari, Zar Peter, onionbreath, and Internet Flea"
I think the spies would be
onionbreath and hedgehogranger

So if you replace me with one of them, I'm happy.

I'm only sure about myself and two spies are one too many.
I don't want to keep this game going on forever so feel free to accept if you think otherwise but I want to win :-)

[Zar Peter]

My spy suspects are Hedgehogranger and onionbreath, and then I'm tending direction Istari.

[rakkoon]

Come on people, let's keep it moving :smalltongue:

[smashbro]

Alrighty guys, in the interest of keeping this going, we've reached the number of votes to reject the mission.

ACCEPT:
Hedgehog Ranger

REJECT:
Zar Peter
rakkoon
Istari
onionbreath
Internet Flea

Did Not Vote:
chessgeek (Diego Havoc)
Mathias


THAT IS THE THIRD REJECTED MISSION. IT IS rakkoon's TURN TO PICK A CREW. IF rakkoon's TEAM IS REJECTED, Mathias WILL SELECT THE NEXT TEAM. Mathias' TEAM MUST BE ACCEPTED, OR THE SPIES AUTOMATICALLY WIN (5 REJECTS IN A ROW).


In other news, welcome to chessgeek, who will be replacing Diego Havoc. I'll be looking for someone to replace mathias if he does not post soon.

[Internet Flea]

If anybody distrusts Zar Peter or rakkoon, now's the time to say so. If not, every team should have them both on it.

I'd prefer myself, Matthias and Diego Havoc to be the other three.

[rakkoon]

I’m going to stick with what I said earlier and replace onion breath and hedgehog ranger

We only have two tries left.
So before I make it official, would the team
Zar Peter, Rakkoon, Istari, Internet Flea, Diego Havoc

Be accepted by (almost) everyone?

[Zar Peter]

From my point of view only Istary could be a spy here so I would accept it.

[onionbreath]

My analysis is fuzzy right now. Of the three I thought were spies when I picked my team, I am less sure of two of them. However, it's purely for meta-game reasons, so I don't know how much stake that should be given.

I will vote against this team because I'm not on it.

I can't say that I mistrust Zar Peter, but I am concerned of the sudden buddy-buddy relationship between him and Internet Flea.

Here's a question to think about. Consider that the spies obviously have more information available to them than the resistance. Does it follow that a spy would be more able to construct a "correct-looking" team than a resistance member could? I think so. At the very least, a spy would be more able to throw suspicion on an actual correct team due to having more certain information. Four teams so far have been soundly voted down. I think those four are more likely to be resistance.

[Internet Flea]

I don't like that Istari is on it still. Do you think that Matthias and Hedgehog Ranger are both spies?

[rakkoon]

I think hedgehog and onion are spies. don't know about the third one but if I'm right it doesn't matter. have no problem with istari .

Will make a final proposal tomorrow

[onionbreath]

Hey, Smashbro, to reduce turnaround time, how about having the potential team members send in their pass/fail votes at the same time as the team approve/reject vote? At this point in the game, I can't see any situation where this would change any results.

[rakkoon]

Zar Peter, Rakkoon, Istari, Internet Flea,Diego Havoc it is then
remember guys, only two tries left!

[Internet Flea]

I recommend we accept this mission. I think Istari's a spy but I think that's the only one.

[Chessgeek]

Alright. I'm pretty sure Matthias should be switched with Istari for the last mission, but other than that it's good.

[onionbreath]

I guarantee you there is least one spy on that team. Hopefully there's only one.

[Istari]

I guess I'm willing to risk this team.

[smashbro]

THE VOTES ARE IN, YOU HAVE AGREED WITH rakkoon's TEAM!

APPROVE:
Istari
rakkoon
Chessgeek (DiegoHavoc)
Zar Peter
Internet Flea

REJECT:
onion breath

NO VOTE:
Matthias
hedgehog ranger




I REGRET TO INFORM YOU ALL... THAT THE EXPLOSIVES THAT WERE MEANT FOR THE TRAINING ACADEMY WERE DEACTIVATED, AND THE ACADEMY STANDS. FOR NOW, WE MUST RETREAT. IT SEEMS THAT OUR ACTIVITIES HERE WERE A FAILURE.


Messages I received:
PASS
FAIL
FAIL
PASS
PASS




Congratulations spy team, consisting of rakkoon, Zar Peter, and Hedgehog Ranger!



Thanks for sticking with it guys, sorry it stalled for so long, and I have a bit to comment on for the strategies and all of that tomorrow, but just wanted to get the results up now. Thanks again for playing everyone!

[Internet Flea]

...huh.

That was unexpected.

[Chessgeek]

Rakkoon I was mildly unsure of, but you had me completely fooled Zar Peter. Well played spies. Wish I was here for the whole thing.

[Zar Peter]

Hussah! No more table tennis watching at last.
...

Well, that was my post to tell rakkoon to shut up and let me take the action. What I'm curious of is how rakkoon and hedgehogranger managed to steer throught the first two rounds.

I mostly supported Internet Fleas point of view since in his theory always two spies were innocent. And sorry Hedgehogranger to carve you out of the pack but your post:


Hey, a boring, anticlimactic win is still a win. Anyway, if I had to guess, the spy was probably in the first group, of which, Matthias seems more suspicious, but I could be totally wrong about that.

screams out spy. You're talking about a win, but a spy win. If you were a villager you should have written about losing the game to the spies, not winning. I had to restrain myself from pointing out this post and just said I had a gut feeling against you.

But hey, congratulations team! We made it!!

[onionbreath]

What I'm curious of is how rakkoon and hedgehogranger managed to steer throught the first two rounds.

I suspect the first round was easy for them to coordinate for reasons I've explained previously. I'm impressed that that coordinated the second round though.

I don't see how it's possible for the resistance to win this game. Maybe it's easier in person. It's still fun though.

[Istari]

I suspect the first round was easy for them to coordinate for reasons I've explained previously. I'm impressed that that coordinated the second round though.

I don't see how it's possible for the resistance to win this game. Maybe it's easier in person. It's still fun though.

It also swings quite a bit based upon the number of players.

[Internet Flea]

I don't see how it's possible for the resistance to win this game. Maybe it's easier in person. It's still fun though.

It's probably easier when a new player (possibly with a name referring to digital media or bloodsucking insects) doesn't monopolize the strategic conversation and then get sucked into a text-wall debate with another town that drives all the resistance members away.

...

:smallcool:

(Seriously though, would be way closer if we forced more people to say more things. Especially more votes of confidence; we could kinda-sorta turn it into Werewolf if we had in-thread votes of confidence from everyone every round.)

[smashbro]

Yeah, a big issue in this game that people weren't talking too much, and in real life, you're forced to, along with seeing facial expressions. In real life, the Resistance definitely has more of a chance. I've found it kinda balanced, if anything, slightly in favor of spies.

[HedgehogRanger]

I suspect the first round was easy for them to coordinate for reasons I've explained previously. I'm impressed that that coordinated the second round though.

If we were coordinating, I don't think I knew it. My logic on round 2 was "well, we can't afford not to fail this mission, so I'm going to fail it and hope for the best".

[rakkoon]

I always let a mission succeed and hoped my fellow spies would sabotage it. Even said so in a post. Thanks to hedgehog for taking one for the team and my apologies to onion. The reason I kept picking on you was because I was a spy myself of course .

[onionbreath]

No worries. I didn't think you were picking on me. Some mistrust of everyone is normal. Flea's mission to defeat me at all costs (including at the expense of the actual mission) was infinitely more frustrating. I'm curious what team Matthias would have assembled for mission if it had gotten to him. I suspect he could have built a successful team and it wouldn't have been up for a vote.

[rakkoon]

I played a game IRL this weekend and the spies won that one too.
Although I knew who all the spies were, I wasn't able to convince the others.
It was easy for me to see that my friend was the spy since he was acting weird.
To be able to do that you need to know the people.
Online it appears to be different.

Was fun and glad I was a spy since it seemed easier.

Weird that two of my missions failed and I was still trusted.
Mind you, I sent in success to both :smallsmile:

[smashbro]

Yeah, the spies did really well in this game, guessing who was failing and succeeding the mission, definitely lots of opportunities to mess up, but dodged them. There was one mission with all three spies on it for round four, but didn't get passed, kinda wish that had happened.

[Zar Peter]

Yeah, the spies did really well in this game, guessing who was failing and succeeding the mission, definitely lots of opportunities to mess up, but dodged them. There was one mission with all three spies on it for round four, but didn't get passed, kinda wish that had happened.

I was really sad to reject this mission but Flea was so determined and I was sure at least two spies WILL be in a mission that will be accepted that I had to do it.

[rakkoon]

Same here, at some point I really wanted to end the game and accept the mission with onion and hedgehog in it but that would contradict my previous behaviour. We got there in the end. High Five Zar Peter!