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View Full Version : [PEACH] Legacy Weapon: Innocents' Vengeance



Humble Master
2013-06-04, 12:44 PM
As anybody who has read Weapons of Legacy or Tome of Battle might know, most legacy weapons aren't worth the time, money and penalties that come with using them. I have a soft spot in my heart for legacy weapons however. The fluff is amazing and the concept was sound. The only problem was the execution. Here is my first homebrew legacy weapon: Innocents' Vengeance! Please review and tell me what you think. Thank you all in advance.

Innocents' Vengeance
{table=head] Level | Legacy Abilities
5th |Thanks of the Innocent
6th |
7th |+2 Warhammer
8th | Vengeful Riposte
9th |
10th| +3 Warhammer
11th| Heal Others(Medium)
12th|
13th| Shouts of the Innocent
14th| +4 Warhammer
15th|
16th| Heal Others (Critical)
17th| Screams of the Innocent
18th|
19th| +5 Warhammer
20th| Aid of the Innocent, Final Vengeance [/table]

Innocents' Vengeance is a war hammer, simple but not crudely constructed. Its head intricately depicts dragons, ogres and other monsters raiding farm villages.
Nonlegacy Game Statistics: +1 Warhammer; Cost 2312 Gp; Weight 5 Lb.
Omen: When Innocents' Vengeance kills a creature the wielder hears the muffled thanks of all the creature's victims.

History
Innocents' Vengeance was originally crafted by a young dwarven mage-smith during an ogre raid on an outlying town in the wilderness. The smith barely finished the hammer when the ogres attacked him. He was killed before he could even lift his new weapon to defend himself. Afterward the hammer was taken to the ogre's caves where it, and the spirit of the dead smith laid for years. (DC 15)
A raid on the ogres' cave by a crusading cleric had Innocents' Vengeance uncovered. The cleric , Dungar Stoneteller, took the hammer and wielded it against the ogres as he fought his way to the center of the caves. As the hammer was swung the spirit of young smith who crafted it could be heard cursing the ogres and egging on Dungar. Eventually the chief of the ogres was killed and Dungar swore he heard a dwarf thanking him even though he was alone. (DC 18; Voice of the Innocent)
After the raid on the ogres' cave Dungar returned to the rebuilt town, now called Grimreach, were the young smith had lived. Dungar stayed in the town one night too many and was killed in his sleep by a goblin raiding party. Innocents' Vengeance was lost in the fighting and fell down the town's well were it lay as the townsfolk were slaughtered by the goblin raiders. The town would later be faced by wave after wave of savage raiders coming to murder and pillage. Over the years thousands of innocent villagers were slain in the town, now thought of as a symbol of the death of the innocent (DC 25; Slaughter of the Innocent)
Grimreach had become an orc military camp when Innocents' Vengeance was finally, by a stroke of chance, pulled up from the well. The warhammer was thrown in with the rest of the weapons and soon forgotten by the orcs. However, the night that Innocents' Vengeance was brought up the orcs were plagued with horrible phantom screams that seemed to come from the ground itself. The screams brought a wandering warrior, Thulus Stoneteller, to the town. Thulus attacked the orcs but his weapons where sundered and he was drove back and eventually forced to hide in the shed were they had kept Innocents' Vengeance. In a last ditch effort Thulus wielded Innocents' Vengeance and attacked the orcs again. As he fought ghostly hands aided his swing and a chorus of voices shouted and screamed for him as he battered through the orc's lines. Once every orc was dead Thulus began to hear disembodied voices thank him for his actions. Last of all he heard a voice who he knew to be his father, Dungar, thank him for his deed. (DC 32; Recognition of the Innocent)

Legacy Rituals
The following rituals are required to unlock the least legacy abilities (level 5 -level 9)
Voice of the Innocent: You must single handedly slay a creature of at least equal challenge rating with Innocent's Vengeance and then meditate and pray for 1 hour. Cost: 1,500. Feat Granted: Least Legacy (Innocents' Vengeance)

The following rituals are required to unlock the lesser legacy abilities (level 10 -level 14)
Slaughter of the Innocents: You must journey to Grimreach and place an offering there to mourn the death of all those who are innocent. Cost 13,000. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy (Innocents' Vengeance)

The following rituals are required to unlock the greater legacy abilities (level 15 -level 20)
Recognition of the Innocents: You must slay a creature whose CR is equal to or greater than your level that has become infamous for killing the innocent. You must then spend 24 hours meditating and praying.. Cost: 35,000. Feat Granted: Greater Legacy (Innocents' Vengeance)


Legacy Weapon Abilities
All of the following are legacy abilities of Innocents' Vengeance.
Thanks of the Innocent(Su): At 5th level, every time you kill an Evil creature you clearly hear the voices of all the innocent creatures that it killed thank you. These thanks grant you a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls for 1 minute.
Vengeful Riposte(Su): Once you attain 8th level Innocents' Vengeance will strike harder against those who hurt you directly. When it is not your turn, any creature that directly harms you (attacks you, casts a spell that deals damage ect.) gets 'marked' as a free action. When you attack a 'marked' creature you deal an additional 2d6 damage. 'Marks' stack and only one 'mark' can be applied to any one creature each round. All marks disappear at the end of the encounter or when the 'marked' creature dies.
Heal Others (Sp): Starting at 11th level, three times per day you may cast cure moderate wounds but only on another creature. At 16th level you instead cast cure critical wounds three times per day but still only on other creatures. For both spells your caster level is treated as your character level.
Shouts of the Innocent (Su): Once you reach 13th level, as you fight the spirits of the innocent will shout glory in your ears and fill your heart with zeal. As long as you are fighting an evil foe you gain a +4 morale bonus to resist fear effects, attack and damage rolls and you gain an additional +2 bonus to all saves. This morale bonus stacks with the bonus provided by Thanks of the Innocent.
Screams of the Innocent (Su): Upon reaching 17th level the innocent spirits within your hammer will begin to shout and scream at the creatures that have killed them. Any evil creature that is within 60ft of Innocent's Vengeance must make a DC 18 + your charisma modifier or be shaken for the rest of the encounter.
Aid of the Innocent (Su): At 20th level the spirits of the innocent will directly aid you in combat; sewing up your wounds, shielding you from spells and adding power to your swing. Any time that you fight a evil opponent you gain a number of benefits. Firstly, you gain fast healing 5 and you get a +2 circumstance bonus to save to resist poison and disease. Secondly double your Strength modifier for the purpose of attack and damage rolls. Finally you gain a +4 sacred bonus on all saves against spells and spell like abilities.
Final Vengeance (Su): Once per day at 20th level you may call upon the spirits of the innocent to deliver an exceptionally potent strike. When you are fighting an evil opponent you may activate this ability when you succeed on an attack roll. As a free action add 100 to the damage deal for that one attack. This damage is unaffected by damage reduction, regeneration or any ability that would reduce the amount of damage dealt.

Spiryt
2013-06-04, 01:40 PM
Innocent's Vengeance is a war hammer, simple but not crudely constructed. It's head intricately depicts dragons, ogres and other monsters raiding farm villages.

Well, that's... hella lot of things to depic on a warhammer, and yet to make it simple. :smallbiggrin:


As far as serious review goes... I'm not sure, and I'm not knowledgeable about Legacy weapons, but up to the very late mid levels, it doesn't look particularly attractive to me.

+3/4 weapons is nice, but some situational modifiers and minor healing is somehow weak.

Although it requires some defining, because under some interpretations, Vengeful Riposte may actually be really damn good.

"Innocent creature" needs defining too, I guess.

Anyway, very nice think, flavorful for any righteous paladin out there.

TuggyNE
2013-06-04, 07:09 PM
I really like the theme of this one.

First off, Thanks of the Innocent seems to be subsumed by Shouts of the Innocent, which is maybe not ideal; switch bonus type to sacred for one of them, to make stacking more favorable?

Secondly, Heal Others is kind of weak, all things considered.

Thirdly, doubling your Str mod for Aid of the Innocent is quite unusual, more of an artifact sort of thing. Maybe instead give a fixed insight bonus to Str, from the spirits guiding your blows?

Buncha minor nitpicks:


Innocent's Vengeance is a war hammer, simple but not crudely constructed. It's head intricately depicts dragons, ogres and other monsters raiding farm villages.

Apostrophes; should be "Innocents' " and "its" respectively. (I.e., the vengeance of the innocents as a whole, rather than the vengeance of a single innocent.)


Omen: When Innocent's Vengeance kills a creature the wielder hears the muffled thanks of all the creature's victims.

Should probably note what happens if you kill something that has never killed anyone else?


History[]

More apostrophes; "ogre's" should be "ogres'" and as before.


Recognition of the Innocents: You must slay a creature who's CR is equal to or greater than your level that has become infamous for killing the innocent.

"whose".


Thanks of the Innocent(Su): At 5th level, every time you slay a foe who has killed innocent creatures in its lifetime you clearly hear the voices of all of those creatures thank you. These thanks grant you a +2 moral bonus on attack and damage rolls for 1 minute.

"Morale", unless you switch this to sacred.


Vengeful Riposte(Su): Once you attain 8th level Innocent's Vengeance will strike harder against those who hurt you directly. Once per round, when you take damage you may choose to activate this ability. On your next turn you deal an additional 2d6 points of damage against the source of the damage.

You should note the activation time (presumably it doesn't take an action and can be done off your turn; otherwise, Su abilities default to standards).


Aid of the Innocent (Su): At 20th level the spirits of the innocent will directly aid you in combat. Sewing up your wounds, shielding you from spells and adding power to your swing. Any time that you fight a evil opponent you gain a number of benefits. Firstly, you gain fast healing 5 and you get a +2 circumstance bonus to save to resist poison and disease. Secondly double your Strength modifier for the purpose of attack and damage rolls. Finally you gain a +4 sacred bonus on all saves against spells and spell like abilities.

First two sentences should be mashed together with a comma.

Also, at this point poison and disease are probably not too big a deal? But eh.


Final Vengeance (Su): Once per day at 20th level you may call upon the spirits of the innocent to deliver an exceptionally potent strike. When you are fighting an evil opponent you may activate this ability when you succeed on an attack roll. Add 100 to the damage deal for that one attack. This damage is unaffected by damage reduction, regeneration or any ability that would reduce the amount o damage dealt.

Should probably note that it's a free action. Also, "dealt" and "of".

Humble Master
2013-06-04, 07:41 PM
Well, that's... hella lot of things to depic on a warhammer, and yet to make it simple. :smallbiggrin:


As far as serious review goes... I'm not sure, and I'm not knowledgeable about Legacy weapons, but up to the very late mid levels, it doesn't look particularly attractive to me.

+3/4 weapons is nice, but some situational modifiers and minor healing is somehow weak.

Although it requires some defining, because under some interpretations, Vengeful Riposte may actually be really damn good.

"Innocent creature" needs defining too, I guess.

Anyway, very nice think, flavorful for any righteous paladin out there.
Well I said the construction, not the detailing was simple. The warhammer was originally plain but the spirits that lay within it etched the pictures onto it's surface.

Originally all of the abilities would only activate if you were fighting "A foe that has killed innocent creatures" but I decided that was to vague so I just changed it to plain Evil. I must have missed Thanks of the Innocent.

The way Vengeful Riposte works is that when it is not your turn, any creature that directly harms you (attacks you, casts a spell ect.) gets 'marked'. When you attack a 'marked' creature you deal an additional 2d6 damage. 'Marks' stack and only one 'mark' can be applied to any one creature each round.


I really like the theme of this one.

First off, Thanks of the Innocent seems to be subsumed by Shouts of the Innocent, which is maybe not ideal; switch bonus type to sacred for one of them, to make stacking more favorable?

Secondly, Heal Others is kind of weak, all things considered.

Thirdly, doubling your Str mod for Aid of the Innocent is quite unusual, more of an artifact sort of thing. Maybe instead give a fixed insight bonus to Str, from the spirits guiding your blows?

Buncha minor nitpicks:



Apostrophes; should be "Innocents' " and "its" respectively. (I.e., the vengeance of the innocents as a whole, rather than the vengeance of a single innocent.)



Should probably note what happens if you kill something that has never killed anyone else?



More apostrophes; "ogre's" should be "ogres'" and as before.



"whose".



"Morale", unless you switch this to sacred.



You should note the activation time (presumably it doesn't take an action and can be done off your turn; otherwise, Su abilities default to standards).



First two sentences should be mashed together with a comma.

Also, at this point poison and disease are probably not too big a deal? But eh.



Should probably note that it's a free action. Also, "dealt" and "of".

I will just put a clause in Thanks of the Innocent that says it stacks with Shouts of the Innocent.

Yes the healing is kind weak but I couldn't think of much else to put there. I might change it to a mass version of the spell to buff it some.

Finally I wanted to make Aid of the Innocent special. To me, legacy weapons at level 20 basically should be artifacts. After all you have stuck with this weapon and also gone out of your way to complete the rituals.

TuggyNE
2013-06-04, 08:22 PM
Oh, and a few more things I didn't notice the first time, because I'm addicted to proof-reading stuff I like :smallwink:.


History Innocent's Vengeance was originally crafted by a young dwarven mage-smith during an ogre raid on an outlying town in the wilderness. The smith barely finished the hammer when the ogres attacked him. He was killed before he could even lift his new weapon to defend himself. Afterword the hammer was taken to the ogre's caves were it, and the spirit of the dead smith laid for years.

"Afterward", "where", no comma needed.


After the raid on the ogre's cave Dungar returned to the rebuilt town, now called Grimreach, were the young smith had lived. Dungar stayed in the town one night too many and was killed in his sleep by a goblin raiding party. Innocent's Vengeance was lost in the fighting and fell down the town's well were it lay as the townsfolk were slaughtered by the goblin raiders.

"Where" again.


However, the night that Innocents Vengeance was brought up the orcs were plauged with horrible phantom screams that seemed to come from the ground itself. The screams brought a wandering warrior, Thulus Stoneteller, to the town. Thulus attacked the orcs but his weaposn were sundered and he was drove back and eventually forced to hide in the shed were they had kept Innocent's Vengeance. In a last ditch effort Thulus wielded Innocent's Vengeance and attack the orcs again. As he fought ghostly hands aided his swing and a chorus of voices shouted and screamed for him as he battered through the orc's lines. Once every orce was dead Thulus began to hear disembodied voices thank him for his actions. Last of all he heard a voice who he knew to be his father, Dungar, thank him for his deed.

"Plagued", "weapons", "where", "attacked", "orc".


Vengeful Riposte(Su): Once you attain 8th level Innocent's Vengeance will strike harder against those who hurt you directly. When it is not your turn, any creature that directly harms you (attacks you, casts a spell ect.) gets 'marked' as a free action. When you attack a 'marked' creature you deal an additional 2d6 damage. 'Marks' stack and only one 'mark' can be applied to any one creature each round

"etc". How long do the marks last, by the way, and is there a way to remove them? (I suggest linking the marking to invisibility's definition of attack.)

Humble Master
2013-06-04, 09:14 PM
Oh, and a few more things I didn't notice the first time, because I'm addicted to proof-reading stuff I like :smallwink:.



"Afterward", "where", no comma needed.



"Where" again.



"Plagued", "weapons", "where", "attacked", "orc".



"etc". How long do the marks last, by the way, and is there a way to remove them? (I suggest linking the marking to invisibility's definition of attack.

Why thank you Tuggyne :smallbiggrin:

I'll get to fixing these problems.

genericwit
2013-06-06, 12:45 PM
You don't specify what you have to do to an evil creature in Thanks of the Innocent... Kill it? Fight it? Challenge it? Spit on it's mother's grave?

Also, the Strength bonus thing seems extremely powerful. Imagine the wielder has a strength of 26, a +8 strength bonus [easily done by level 2O, and even earlier]. This then gets translated into a +16 to attack and damage. But wait! There's more! What if he wields this weapon two-handed? That means wielder adds 24 to his damage rolls, triple his initial strength modifier! And if he's fighting an evil foe, that means he also adds 6 to attack and damage. And by 2O, it's a +5 weapon. So for this fighter, his bonus to attack is 27 [before BAB and any other modifiers] and he adds 35 to damage [again, before other modifiers]. Wowza!

Edit: I also really like this concept, this is a legacy item that I would actually use. Not having a ton of penalties really makes legacy items more attractive! Nice fluff, too.

Deaxsa
2013-06-06, 12:59 PM
just a minor nitpick, but you should call it:
1- "Innocent's Vengeace" (if the owner was called Innocent),
2- "Innocence's Vengeance" (if the owner was called Innocence),
3- "Vengeance of the Innocents" (if referring to a group of people who were innocent), or
4- "Vengeance of Innocence" (if referring to the quality)

just clears up confusion as to who/what this item is actually named after. right now it appears that this item is referring to a group of people known as "Innocents"(as in option 3). however, i think changing the name to 3 would remove a whole lot of confusion, so people do not think that 1 or 2 are the case.

Humble Master
2013-06-06, 02:28 PM
You don't specify what you have to do to an evil creature in Thanks of the Innocent... Kill it? Fight it? Challenge it? Spit on it's mother's grave?

Also, the Strength bonus thing seems extremely powerful. Imagine the wielder has a strength of 26, a +8 strength bonus [easily done by level 2O, and even earlier]. This then gets translated into a +16 to attack and damage. But wait! There's more! What if he wields this weapon two-handed? That means wielder adds 24 to his damage rolls, triple his initial strength modifier! And if he's fighting an evil foe, that means he also adds 6 to attack and damage. And by 2O, it's a +5 weapon. So for this fighter, his bonus to attack is 27 [before BAB and any other modifiers] and he adds 35 to damage [again, before other modifiers]. Wowza!

Edit: I also really like this concept, this is a legacy item that I would actually use. Not having a ton of penalties really makes legacy items more attractive! Nice fluff, too.

Thank you for noticing that typo in Thanks of the Innocent.

I guess I should tone down the Strength bonus a little. Any ideas on what to make it?


just a minor nitpick, but you should call it:
1- "Innocent's Vengeace" (if the owner was called Innocent),
2- "Innocence's Vengeance" (if the owner was called Innocence),
3- "Vengeance of the Innocents" (if referring to a group of people who were innocent), or
4- "Vengeance of Innocence" (if referring to the quality)

just clears up confusion as to who/what this item is actually named after. right now it appears that this item is referring to a group of people known as "Innocents"(as in option 3). however, i think changing the name to 3 would remove a whole lot of confusion, so people do not think that 1 or 2 are the case.

Sorry but I like the name Innocents' Vengeance. It seems to have a certain ring to it.

genericwit
2013-06-06, 04:09 PM
I'd recommend doing something like a static, untyped +4 bonus to strength and/or allowing the wielder to add double their strength bonus to damage rolls instead of doubling their strength bonus. If you do both, the latter bonus should come later on.

TuggyNE
2013-06-06, 04:13 PM
just a minor nitpick, but you should call it:
1- "Innocent's Vengeace" (if the owner was called Innocent),
2- "Innocence's Vengeance" (if the owner was called Innocence),
3- "Vengeance of the Innocents" (if referring to a group of people who were innocent), or
4- "Vengeance of Innocence" (if referring to the quality)

Properly placed apostrophes are your friend; the name is not ambiguous as it stands, and is grammatically correct. I'm loathe to see that change. :smallcool:

Humble Master
2013-06-06, 04:19 PM
Again thank you Tuggyne.:smallbiggrin:

As for the Strength bonus I had an idea. How about +1d10 untyped bonus to Strength that gets rerolled every time combat starts?

Also my second Legacy Weapon, Brakval's Sorrow, is almost complete.:smallwink:

Deaxsa
2013-06-06, 05:09 PM
Properly placed apostrophes are your friend; the name is not ambiguous as it stands, and is grammatically correct. I'm loathe to see that change. :smallcool:

i know it's grammatically correct, i'm not disputing that. i'm saying that it's a pain to say and understand which one you are referring to. ambiguity is not always a good thing. (especially when trying to create an iconic item of magical power)