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View Full Version : The Scholar (Pseudo-NPC class, 3.5, PEACH)



Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-06, 09:35 AM
The Scholar
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12
[/table]

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d4

Class Skills: Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Sense Motive, Listen, Search, Spot, Speak Language
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features:
Proficiencies: Scholars gain no weapon or armor proficiencies

Intellect: A Scholar may add 1/2 their character level or their full class level, whichever is higher, to all trained knowledge checks. This bonus counts as ranks for the purposes of the Cantrip feature, though a character must still allocate skill points to be considered trained.

Cantrips: A Scholar trained in Knowledge (Arcana) can cast level 0 spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as a wizard of a his ranks in the aforementioned skill. He can write these spells into a spellbook as a wizard could, except that he does not start out having a spellbook, or anything written therein, and must get one and write them in himself. A Scholar trained in Knowledge (Religion) can cast level 0 cleric spells as a cleric of half his seer level, and must still pray to a god to receive this benefit. A Scholar trained in Knowledge (Psicraft) gains power points as a psion of of his ranks in the aforementioned skill, and may choose two level 1 non-restricted psion/wilder powers that he can use as a psion of his ranks in the aforementioned skill. A Scholar trained in Knowledge (Nature) may cast level 0 druid spells as a druid of half his ranks in the aforementioned skill. All spellcraft or psicraft checks may be made as though they were the applicable knowledge checks instead.

Linguist: Scholars gain an additional language at 1st level, 3rd level, and every 3 levels thereafter. Starting at 6th level, they gain access to secret languages as well.

Lost Lore: If a Scholar has gone 5 levels without taking levels in seer, they lose their seer class features until they take another level of seer. If they have knowledge skills over the default skill cap, this means that they lose those skill points.

The idea here is to have a class that allowed NPCs to be straight scholars, but also to give PCs the ability to have a particularly intelligent character. Its lack of battle utility is intentional, and it should only be a once-in-a-while dip for PCs regardless. It seems like a really good dip, so I gave it the once per five levels re-dip thing. What do you guys think?

Deaxsa
2013-06-06, 11:44 AM
i want you to tell me what this class is going to be good at.



maybe you should give them Divination spellcasting levels 1-9 at increased power(like a super-specialist wizard)? (it IS a seer, after all, literally one who sees)

wait, did you give the seer's class features ALL at level one? maybe you should spread them out, give them bonus languages, or something like that?

Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-06, 01:12 PM
For the most part, it's for NPCs. It was never intended to be anything more than a dip for PCs. The intention is for it to be good at knowledge checks. I felt that they could choose to take languages with skill points if they so chose (it is a class skill), so it didn't make sense to give it as a class feature. I may give access to secret languages at some point, however.

Yitzi
2013-06-06, 01:24 PM
i want you to tell me what this class is going to be good at.

It's going to be good at knowing things.

Not so useful for a PC to take. Extremely useful for the PCs to have as an ally.

ben-zayb
2013-06-06, 05:16 PM
It's going to be good at knowing things.

Not so useful for a PC to take. Extremely useful for the PCs to have as an ally.
Actually it is. This is almost as good as, if not better than, the Cloistered Cleric in terms of one level dips in Knowledge devotion type of builds.

Deaxsa
2013-06-06, 05:20 PM
It's going to be good at knowing things.

Not so useful for a PC to take. Extremely useful for the PCs to have as an ally.

ok, cool. just wanted to get that out of the way. also, what would you say the mains stat is supposed to be on this class? int? or Wis?

instead of the training cap (because the it'd be impossible to get those skill points without spending a bunch of feats on Open Minded), just do stuff like adding class level to knowledge checks, treating all knowledge skills as fully ranked, adding wis to knowledge checks, etc.

also, because information is the name of the game, and divination is all about information, and because you've already established that this class can cast spells, maybe give it a divination-only spell progression?

Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-07, 09:13 AM
Actually it is. This is almost as good as, if not better than, the Cloistered Cleric in terms of one level dips in Knowledge devotion type of builds.

That's why I included the re-dip every 5 levels. It's not intended as anything more for PCs.


ok, cool. just wanted to get that out of the way. also, what would you say the mains stat is supposed to be on this class? int? or Wis?

instead of the training cap (because the it'd be impossible to get those skill points without spending a bunch of feats on Open Minded), just do stuff like adding class level to knowledge checks, treating all knowledge skills as fully ranked, adding wis to knowledge checks, etc.

also, because information is the name of the game, and divination is all about information, and because you've already established that this class can cast spells, maybe give it a divination-only spell progression?

Either. It depends on the character. This is a supplementary class for PCs, not intended to be what they do solely. The existing casting has both Int and Wis, and it's not the class's primary feature anyway. Either way, Int is gonna be pretty high, and they get 2 more skill points each level than other int-based characters. I did consider giving 6 instead of 4 skill points, however. Should I do so?

Deaxsa
2013-06-07, 11:22 AM
That's why I included the re-dip every 5 levels. It's not intended as anything more for PCs.



Either. It depends on the character. This is a supplementary class for PCs, not intended to be what they do solely. The existing casting has both Int and Wis, and it's not the class's primary feature anyway. Either way, Int is gonna be pretty high, and they get 2 more skill points each level than other int-based characters. I did consider giving 6 instead of 4 skill points, however. Should I do so?

well, if the idea is that Seers know a bunch of stuff... okay, first of all, this class feels less like a "Seer (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Seer?s=t)" and more like a "Librarian (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Seer?s=t)".

with that out of the way, let me continue my original thought: there are 10 knowledges in core. because there are so many, i would not suggest giving the librarian a bunch of skillpoints to compensate, they could just spend those on other skills. instead, give them a class feature that reads something like this:


Whoop-Dee-Doo, I'm A Bookworm! (Ex)
when making a knowledge check, treat a librarian as having either ranks equal to her character level, or however many ranks she actually has, whichever is higher.

things that have to happen with this class feature:
-must portray great knowledge
-must be useful even if it's just a dip (an easy way to do this is to make it so it scales off of "character level," not "class level" or an ability score)
-must not allow for making knowledge checks at levels (much) higher than your actual level (so, for instance, adding character level to knowledge checks is out the window because you're basically doubling you ranks)

Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-07, 11:48 AM
well, if the idea is that Seers know a bunch of stuff... okay, first of all, this class feels less like a "Seer (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Seer?s=t)" and more like a "Librarian (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Seer?s=t)".

You're right, I'll change the name to Scholar.


with that out of the way, let me continue my original thought: there are 10 knowledges in core. because there are so many, i would not suggest giving the librarian a bunch of skillpoints to compensate, they could just spend those on other skills. instead, give them a class feature that reads something like this:

Whoop-Dee-Doo, I'm A Bookworm! (Ex)
a librarian adds his/her character level to all knowledge checks he/she makes.

Well, since the whole point of taking the class at all is getting good at knowledge skills, why would anyone take this instead of a full-on skill monkey as a class unless they want to get good at knowledge skills?
The bookworm thing makes sense, though, so I'll change some stuff up.

Deaxsa
2013-06-07, 12:03 PM
You're right, I'll change the name to Scholar.



Well, since the whole point of taking the class at all is getting good at knowledge skills, why would anyone take this instead of a full-on skill monkey as a class unless they want to get good at knowledge skills?
The bookworm thing makes sense, though, so I'll change some stuff up.

eeeeek! i edited my post! check the edit! with that current ability, you essentially double your ranks in ALL knowledge skills! that is a mite strong! (imho)

(i think that you could tone it down to 1/2 character level or full class level, though, and it would be fine)

however, if you did that, you'd still have the skillpoints problem. honestly, at this point, so they are not overwhelmed with class abilities, i agree, getting 8+int is probably the way to go. just restrict the skill list like your name is Ebenezer.

Deaxsa
2013-06-07, 12:17 PM
i'd like to point out a couple of things about the Reroll, linguist, and Specialist class abilities.

1. Reroll. why do you have this ability? it's not like they are going to be failing knowledge checks, and sometimes, you just roll low(and because they're skil checks, rolling a 1 is NOT auto-failure). additinally, an NPC is probably going to have this up every single time the PCs want that NPC to make a knowledge check, which, while not game-breaking, i just don't think it's necessary

2. Linguist. this is a bit silly, this would only really apply if you took the class at 1st level, and since it's a dip class, almost no one would do that. instead, take a page from the Loremaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/loremaster.htm)'s book, and give the character who takes this class a free language every so often (maybe, every third level?)

3. Specialist. there are a couple of problems with this ability.
A)skill checks do not auto-succeed on a 20. that's just a house rule.
B)how on earth are you supposed to get that final skill point without sacrificing another skill point or taking the Able learner feat? (unless the point is to sacrifice the other skill point).
C) why are you making it either/or? it's not like knowledge checks can exactly break the game (yea, yea, pun-pun, i know you're there), but for the most part, is there anything inherently BAD about being particularly good at something IN ADDITION to other things?
D) specialist is (almost) strictly worse than intellect after level 4. (that almost being making it into prestige classes with high Knowledge(something) requirements, otherwise, intellect is strictly better).
E) if you roll a 19 or 20, and you have levels in this class, what are the chances you're actually going to fail the check?

Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-07, 12:53 PM
I've gotten rid of specialist and reroll, and revised linguist and intellect. I also realized that I hadn't copy/pasted the class skills on from the word document I made this on. Fixed that, and increased skill points from 4 to 6, but I'm hesitant about upping it to 8. I still want there to be stuff they aren't experts in, and I don't want it to only be a few things. That would probably make them a bit overpowered.

Deaxsa
2013-06-07, 02:58 PM
I've gotten rid of specialist and reroll, and revised linguist and intellect. I also realized that I hadn't copy/pasted the class skills on from the word document I made this on. Fixed that, and increased skill points from 4 to 6, but I'm hesitant about upping it to 8. I still want there to be stuff they aren't experts in, and I don't want it to only be a few things. That would probably make them a bit overpowered.

honestly, it's a d4 HD class with only one good save, and low BAB, that does not have any significant casting capabilities. oh, and all of it's class abilities revolve around a small subset of skills. it's not going to be overpowered any time soon.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-06-07, 03:23 PM
Not if you're just taking it, no. But as a dip?

Deaxsa
2013-06-07, 03:32 PM
Not if you're just taking it, no. But as a dip every few levels?

ftfy damn post length requirement

Yitzi
2013-06-08, 09:24 PM
honestly, it's a d4 HD class with only one good save, and low BAB, that does not have any significant casting capabilities. oh, and all of it's class abilities revolve around a small subset of skills. it's not going to be overpowered any time soon.

If playing with contacts, it might be overpowered to have as a contact.

ben-zayb
2013-06-09, 12:06 AM
ftfy damn post length requirement

That depends actually. In a one-off game, A PC can dip it once *at the PC's last level*