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Melcar
2013-06-08, 05:29 PM
Melcarís Astral Storm
Conjuration [Summoning]
Level: Sor/Wis 9
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 10ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special (Object)
Spell Resistance: No (Object)
When this spell is cast, silver blue spheres of astral matter is summoned onto the material plane as asteroids originating from high above. The spheres are directed as a spell and explodes in a...

This powerful conjuration wrenches at the very fabric of the astral plane and brings it into existence on the material plane to devastating effect. This spell effectively creates 3 asteroids- like spheres of astral matter, which is directed at the target area. The interference of the two planes colliding in such a perpendicular way creates a number of effects.

First of all where the material plane and the astral plane meet, they self-annihilate in a burst of pure energy so energetic that any object or creature caught in the blast areal is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. This allows for a fortitude save to negate the disintegration and instead take 2d6 points of damage per level of the caster

Secondly the affected object or creature must succed...


I need some good ways to finish the spell, and some general comments and criticism. Thanks! Also... Let me know what you think!!!:smallbiggrin:

Yitzi
2013-06-08, 09:23 PM
A spell that does 2d6 damage/level on a successful save is way too powerful, unless you're aiming for a rocket-tag tier 2 game.

Melcar
2013-06-09, 10:04 AM
I have made ajustments that I would like some feedback on please!!!

Melcarís Astral Storm
Conjuration [Summoning]
Level: Sor/Wis 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 10ft radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text (Object)
Spell Resistance: No (Object)

When this spell is cast, silver blue spheres of astral matter is summoned onto the material plane as asteroids originating from somewhere high above. As the spheres reach their destination they explode in a silver blue flash as the astral matter collapses into nothing.

This powerful conjuration wrenches at the very fabric of the astral plane and brings it into existence on the material plane to devastating effect. This spell creates one asteroid- like spheres of astral matter, per 10th caster level, which is directed at the target area. The perpendicular interference of the two planes colliding creates a number of effects:

ē Firstly the force at which the astral matter pulled onto the material plane is so great that it results in the spheres exploding in a burst of pure energy, effectively annihilating the astral mater in a 10 ft. radius blast per sphere. Any creature or object caught in the blast radius takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level (no save).

ē Secondly any affected object or creature of huge or smaller size, risks being teleported onto the astral plane as the astral matter collapses in on itself. A successful reflex save negates this.


Focus: A planar fork, keyed for the astral plane

themourningstar
2013-06-09, 10:31 AM
Melcarís Astral Storm
Conjuration [Summoning]
Level: Sor/Wis 9
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: One standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 10ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special (Object)
Spell Resistance: No (Object)
When this spell is cast, silver blue spheres of astral matter is summoned onto the material plane as asteroids originating from high above. The spheres are directed as a spell and explodes in a...

This powerful conjuration wrenches at the very fabric of the astral plane and brings it into existence on the material plane to devastating effect. This spell effectively creates 3 asteroids- like spheres of astral matter, which is directed at the target area. The interference of the two planes colliding in such a perpendicular way creates a number of effects.

First of all where the material plane and the astral plane meet, they self-annihilate in a burst of pure energy so energetic that any object or creature caught in the blast areal is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. This allows for a fortitude save to negate the disintegration and instead take 2d6 points of damage per level of the caster

Secondly the affected object or creature must succed...


I need some good ways to finish the spell, and some general comments and criticism. Thanks! Also... Let me know what you think!!!:smallbiggrin:

I don't see what's wrong with this spell. It is basically a 9th level version of disintegrate. But a damage cap on the spheres for when they save against them- 5d6? Compared to how fireball evolves into delayed blast fireball, and then into meteor swarm, the power isn't too much- just limit it to one sphere of astral matter, but maybe make it wider.

Yitzi
2013-06-09, 12:25 PM
I don't see what's wrong with this spell. It is basically a 9th level version of disintegrate. But a damage cap on the spheres for when they save against them- 5d6? Compared to how fireball evolves into delayed blast fireball, and then into meteor swarm, the power isn't too much

No matter how much fireball evolves, a good enough save and touch AC can defend against it. Not so for the original version of this spell.

Rolep
2013-06-09, 01:41 PM
Not on the rules but I do not think that perpendicular is the right adjective to use: it means "at right angles". Try "catastrophic", "calamitous" or "cataclysmic" as these are, I believe, more on the lines of what you are trying to say.

Melcar
2013-06-09, 02:03 PM
Not on the rules but I do not think that perpendicular is the right adjective to use: it means "at right angles". Try "catastrophic", "calamitous" or "cataclysmic" as these are, I believe, more on the lines of what you are trying to say.

Ok... I was trying to say something on the line of, that since they resonate in two different frequencies since the fact that they are two different planes, when they meet they are the opposite of parallel (think string theory)... But you might be right. :smallsmile:

Max Caysey
2013-06-09, 03:43 PM
How would you protect against it? As I see it you can only have damage reduction against blugeoning damage.

What spells would protect against this? Prismatic Sphere? What about Rod of absorbtion? Or Telekenitic Sphere?

In my eyes its a bit too much!!!

Melcar
2013-06-10, 02:04 AM
I see your point... But the whole point of this spell was to create something that spell resistance or absorption didnít just negate right away. We play an epic campaign and the monsters we face have begun to have quite the spell resistance. Furthermore, so many wizard battles are determined by who throws the first dispel magic. I want something that affects my enemy while he or she is buffed.

So thatís what I'm trying to do here...

Yitzi
2013-06-10, 06:56 AM
I see your point... But the whole point of this spell was to create something that spell resistance or absorption didnít just negate right away. We play an epic campaign and the monsters we face have begun to have quite the spell resistance. Furthermore, so many wizard battles are determined by who throws the first dispel magic. I want something that affects my enemy while he or she is buffed.

So thatís what I'm trying to do here...

In that case, I'd say have it make a nonmagical poison (hence no spell resistance) with a moderate Fort save DC, a nasty effect against wizards (perhaps something that disables spellcasting?), and the ability to bypass all magical protection. That way it's not overpowered, since a fighter can beat it, but it's still going to be a killer in a wizard battle.

Melcar
2013-06-10, 05:09 PM
In that case, I'd say have it make a nonmagical poison (hence no spell resistance) with a moderate Fort save DC, a nasty effect against wizards (perhaps something that disables spellcasting?), and the ability to bypass all magical protection. That way it's not overpowered, since a fighter can beat it, but it's still going to be a killer in a wizard battle.

Yeah.. I see that working fine, but just realy like the idea of calling astral meteors... I might be to single minded in my designs, but I'm not so much into poison.

If I could, I would very much like to have some help with the sub-school. Im not sure where to put it. Is it summoning or creation?? Or any of the other conjuration sub-schools?

Thanks again for all the help!

Max Caysey
2013-06-11, 09:59 AM
I actually think it should be (creation) or (calling)... But im no expert!

Cidolfas
2013-06-11, 12:57 PM
If you are in epic levels, you that kind of damage output should be fine. This is a level 9 spell, after all. You are competing with things like gate and wail of the banshee. If it's not hardcore, I would say you were doing it wrong.

One suggestion I have is potentially eliminating die rolling altogether as far as damage is concerned. As much as I am aware that playing the game is partly about rolling dice, once you are dealing with something as high as 2d6 per level that is just a crapton of die rolling and it seems like it would slow the game way down. What if it's something like 10 damage per caster level? Less reward than a maximized version of the spell would offer, but on average higher than the 7 average damage per CL of a 2d6/level spell. Plus you don't have to roll 40+ dice for one spell.

Melcar
2013-06-11, 04:53 PM
If you are in epic levels, you that kind of damage output should be fine. This is a level 9 spell, after all. You are competing with things like gate and wail of the banshee. If it's not hardcore, I would say you were doing it wrong.

One suggestion I have is potentially eliminating die rolling altogether as far as damage is concerned. As much as I am aware that playing the game is partly about rolling dice, once you are dealing with something as high as 2d6 per level that is just a crapton of die rolling and it seems like it would slow the game way down. What if it's something like 10 damage per caster level? Less reward than a maximized version of the spell would offer, but on average higher than the 7 average damage per CL of a 2d6/level spell. Plus you don't have to roll 40+ dice for one spell.

I actually reduced the damage from 2d6 to 1d6 and removed the disintegration effect... but I like your idea!!!

Yitzi
2013-06-11, 08:37 PM
If you are in epic levels, you that kind of damage output should be fine. This is a level 9 spell, after all. You are competing with things like gate and wail of the banshee.

Wail of the banshee does nothing on a successful save. And anything that can compete with Gate is as brokenly powerful as Gate is.

Melcar
2013-06-12, 02:58 AM
Here is the spell in its latest version...

Melcarís Astral Storm
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Sor/Wis 9
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: One round
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: One 3ft. diameter meteor of astral matter per 10 caster levels
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

When this spell is cast, silver blue spheres of astral matter is summoned onto the material plane as meteors originating from somewhere high above. As the spheres reach their destination they explode in a silver blue flash as the astral matter collapses into nothing.

This powerful conjuration wrenches at the very fabric of the astral plane and brings it into existence on the material plane to devastating effect. This spell creates one meteor- like spheres of astral matter, per 10th caster level, which the caster directs within the target area. The caster is free to place the meteors anywhere within the spell range. The perpendicular interference of the two planes colliding creates a number of effects:

ē Firstly the force at which the astral matter is pulled onto the material plane is so great that it results in the spheres exploding in a burst of pure energy, effectively annihilating the astral mater in a 10 ft. radius blast per sphere. Any creature or object caught in the blast radius takes 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level. A successful reflex saving throw halves this damage.

ē Secondly any affected objects or creatures, of huge or smaller size, which failed their initial reflex saving throw, have a 10% risk of being teleported onto the astral plane as the astral matter collapses in on itself.

ē Lastly since the caster wrenches a small part of the astral matter of the astral plane, a 1% chance exist of something coming through onto the material plane as the astral matter self-annihilate, as per the spell Gate. If this happens roll from the table below.

NB. If a different planar fork is used, this spell would pull matter from the plane the fork was tuned to.

Material Component: A Sapphire of good quality
Focus: A planar fork, keyed to the astral plane

I think is is better now... feel free to give it to me strait! Does it suck?:smalleek:

Yitzi
2013-06-12, 10:01 AM
Looks good. Not tier 1-2 level, but that's just another way of saying "not overpowered to the point of being broken".

Melcar
2013-06-12, 12:34 PM
Looks good. Not tier 1-2 level, but that's just another way of saying "not overpowered to the point of being broken".

Thanks... Iím glad you like it. Just out of curiosity... what would constitute a tier 1 spell? And what would have to be done to this one to make it tier 1 broken?

What Iím trying to say is, that Iím new to the tier "thing" so Iím unsure of what a tier 1 spell is or how you would determine whether or not it tier 1, 2 or 3.

Cidolfas
2013-06-12, 08:39 PM
Gate is probably the most ready example of a Tier 1 spell. You can pretty much use it to win any encounter by pulling off some crazy stuff like chain-summoning solars until you have any army of them, etc.

Others are probably pretty close. Time Stop and wish/miracle, to name a few. Wail of the banshee is certainly good, but nowhere near as all-purpose, so it would probably be a Tier 2 by my reckoning.

Yitzi
2013-06-12, 08:42 PM
Thanks... Iím glad you like it. Just out of curiosity... what would constitute a tier 1 spell?

Gate and Shapechange are classic examples. Basically, it has to be able to win entire encounters single-handedly.


And what would have to be done to this one to make it tier 1 broken?

Your original form would probably do it; 2d6/level to three 10-foot squares with no save or SR will end most encounters, and make the others a whole lot easier. And with save DC pumping, it's even nastier.

Of course, one tier 1 spell does not make a tier 1 class; tier 1 means not only having that sort of power, but having a wide variety of options at that power and the ability to switch between them at will.


What Iím trying to say is, that Iím new to the tier "thing" so Iím unsure of what a tier 1 spell is or how you would determine whether or not it tier 1, 2 or 3.

Ok, the way I see it is as follows (all of the following is assuming optimization):

Tier 1: Brokenly powerful, can take any role (often better than tier 3 or lower who specializes in that role) and switch between them without redoing the build.
Tier 2: Brokenly powerful, but has to pick his main role when designing the build.
Tier 3: Has decent levels of both power and versatility, but a specialist tier 3 will be worse at his nonspecialties than a generalist (though not completely useless), and a generalist tier 3 will be worse than a specialist at the latter's specialty.
Tier 4: Has power or versatility, but not both.
Tier 5: Has neither power nor versatility to any great extent.
Tier 6: Was probably designed to be underpowered.

Unofficial tiers:
-Broken (i.e. Truenamer): Doesn't work mechanically.
-Anti-tier: Can easily be used to create encounters in which lower tiers do substantially better than substantially higher tiers. No such classes exist outside of homebrew AFAIK.

Basically, tier 1-2 is overpowered, with tier 1 having infinite versatility on top of that. Tier 3-4 has to choose between power and versatility, but tier 3 has some amount of even the one it doesn't pick. Tier 5-6 is underpowered, but tier 5 at least makes an honest try.

paladinofu.s.a
2013-06-12, 08:45 PM
Well meclar declaratory spell is nice but I would recommend that cleric/duties have this spell at level 7 but clerics must have the correct domain (decided by DM):smallsmile:

paladinofu.s.a
2013-06-12, 08:48 PM
Meclar there should be a max of the damage I suggest 8d6.