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View Full Version : A new Inevitable: Enforcing the Gentlemen's Agreement (3.5 semi-silly monster, PEACH)



TuggyNE
2013-06-29, 05:43 PM
In general I don't really think it's a good idea to solve out-of-game problems — like munchkinry or building characters past the desired power level — with in-game solutions. However, this was too funny to pass up.

Do not take Munchkaruts with water. Consult a doctor before use if you have a history of book-throwing. If problem persists for more than two sessions, discontinue use and seek professional help. Do not operate heavy equipment while using Munchkaruts.


Munchkarut
Size/Type: Large Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful)
Hit Dice: ∞d10+∞ (∞)
Initiative: +Before You
Speed: 400 ft. (80 squares)
Armor Class: No, touch No, flat-footed No
Base Attack/Grapple: +Enough/+Enormous
Attack: Slam +Yes melee (2d6+Lots)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +Yes melee (2d6+Lots)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rocks fall, remote sensing, superior dispel, spell-like abilities, spirit of the law
Special Qualities: DR 100/epic and chaotic and adamantine, true seeing, freedom of movement, immunity to magic, lightning strike, rejuvenation
Saves: Fort +Yes, Ref +Yes, Will +Yes
Abilities: Str Lots, Dex Enough, Con -, Int Plenty, Wis Superior, Cha Sufficient
Skills: Yes
Feats: All of them
Environment: Mechanus
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Very
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always lawful neutral
Advancement: --
Level Adjustment: --

Munchkaruts are the greater cousins of kolyaruts, punishing those who break the mysterious laws known as the Gentlemen's Agreement. No force can stop their wrath.

Combat
It kills you. 'Nuff said.

Rocks Fall (Ex):
As a free action, the Munchkarut can will a creature it can see to be utterly destroyed. A massive rockfall from thin air above the creature removes all effects currently active (including supernatural abilities) and destroys all magic items (including crafted contingencies) as Mordenkainen's disjunction, deals 200d6 damage (which bypasses DR by virtue of being falling damage, and does lethal damage despite any form of regeneration), and removes the memory of the creature from existence, as unname. The rocks do not harm anything but the creature targeted, and disappear after impact.

Remote Sensing (Su):
As a standard action, a Munchkarut can perceive everything within a radius of one mile around any creature or object disrupting the game. The remote sensing power can cross planes and penetrate any barrier except a divine shield (described in Salient Divine Abilities) or an area otherwise blocked by a deity. Remote sensing is not fooled by misdirection or nondetection or similar spells, and it does not create a magical sensor that other creatures can detect. Once a Munchkarut chooses a remote location to sense, it automatically receives sensory information from that location until it chooses a new location to sense, or until it can’t sense the location. In addition, their senses may extend up to one week into the past and one week into the future.

Spell-Like Abilities:
At-will: disintegrate, foresight, greater celerity, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, plane shift. All of these are also available with various metamagic feats applied in any combination.

Spirit of the Law (Ex):
A Munchkarut has the ability to enforce the will of the multiverse. At any time that a being attempts to subvert the intent of one of the universal laws, a Munchkarut can clarify and reinforce these laws as a non-action that need not be taken on the Munchkarut's turn. The effect is similar to a deity's Godly Realm salient ability, except that the Munchkarut isn't limited to a certain location. The Munchkarut can, for example, adjust the flow of time, physical laws that mortals must follow, or the mechanics of magic.

True Seeing (Ex):
As the spell; the Munchkarut may activate or deactivate this ability as a free action.

Freedom of Movement (Ex):
As the spell; the Munchkarut may activate or deactivate this ability as a free action.

Immunity to Magic (Ex):
A Munchkarut is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.

Lightning Strike (Ex):
As the Dire Tortoise's ability.

Rejuvenation (Ex):
The Munchkarut is impossible to keep down. If it is somehow destroyed, or prevented from acting freely for more than 24 hours, it disappears and reappears on its home plane 1 round later, restored to full hit points and with no effects or conditions remaining on it. This is not a teleportation effect.

I've fixed one big embarrassing problem, and several other smaller ones, but there are probably a few problems remaining, and in any case, as the Stuffy Doll showed, it's quite difficult* to optimization-proof a monster, so the Munchkaruts content themselves with preemptive strikes on any characters cheesy enough to one day challenge them seriously. (As well as their usual task of hunting down cheesy or game-disrupting characters in general.)

I would appreciate hearing of any significant, easy-to-patch problems, though!

*OK, basically impossible.

Tanuki Tales
2013-06-29, 05:55 PM
What happens if two of these fight? :smallamused:

AuraTwilight
2013-06-29, 06:00 PM
Pun-Pun can still beat it.

Eurus
2013-06-29, 06:09 PM
Pun-Pun can still beat it.

It should have an ability like a deity's portfolio sense, allowing it to foresee significant munchkin-y events several weeks in the future. That way it can pre-empt any ascension attempts. :smallamused:

AuraTwilight
2013-06-29, 06:35 PM
....Except Pun-Pun can still beat it, because the first thing he did upon ascension was step out of time. :P

TuggyNE
2013-06-29, 06:40 PM
What happens if two of these fight? :smallamused:

The spawning thread mentioned that a bit.


It should have an ability like a deity's portfolio sense, allowing it to foresee significant munchkin-y events several weeks in the future. That way it can pre-empt any ascension attempts. :smallamused:

Hmm, good idea. I'll shove that in.

Edit:
....Except Pun-Pun can still beat it, because the first thing he did upon ascension was step out of time. :P

That's not how time works. Specifically, the Munchkarut(s) can and would interfere immediately upon intercepting Pun-Pun's request to Pazuzu (or similar method of ascension). Pun-Pun ascension is a fairly involved and quite lengthy process, and can be interrupted rather easily for at least several rounds, and probably more than several hundred. (How soon can Pun-Pun get access to time-distortion techniques, anyway?)

Eurus
2013-06-29, 06:44 PM
....Except Pun-Pun can still beat it, because the first thing he did upon ascension was step out of time. :P

Well then you're getting into weirdness where Pun-Pun couldn't have ascended because he would have been stopped, except he somehow grandfather paradoxes himself into existence with a future version of himself who can only exist because future-him helped past-him ascend. :smalltongue:

Vadskye
2013-06-29, 06:55 PM
Sounds like it needs a new class feature.
Time Lord (Ex): A munchkarut is immune to time paradoxes. Any time paradoxes always resolve themselves in the munchkarut's favor.

Tanuki Tales
2013-06-30, 12:11 AM
But what if an Alt. Pun-Pun goes around into verses where he does not yet exist to create himself?

Vadskye
2013-06-30, 12:37 AM
Sounds like it needs a new class feature.
No Power In the 'Verse Can Stop Me (Ex): The munchkarut exists in any and all possible universes simultaneously whenever doing so is beneficial to the munchkarut.

AuraTwilight
2013-06-30, 01:27 AM
Too bad Pun-Pun has the I automatically beat Munchkaruts Nener Nener (ex) ability.

Yitzi
2013-06-30, 07:23 AM
Give it the ability to enforce Core-only rules. It won't shut down all munchkinism, but will reduce it to a far more manageable number of possibilities.

Sylthia
2013-06-30, 09:31 AM
One might argue that destroying munchkins would be a lawful good action.

TuggyNE
2013-06-30, 04:30 PM
One might argue that destroying munchkins would be a lawful good action.

Well, it's an Inevitable, so it really needs to be LN. :smalltongue:

137ben
2013-06-30, 04:47 PM
Too bad Pun-Pun has the I automatically beat Munchkaruts Nener Nener (ex) ability.
Okay, her's a new Munchkarut power:

Destroy Manipulate Form:Without using any actions, the Manchkarut can negate any uses of the Manipulate Form ability it wants. It can choose whichever uses of Manipulate Form it wants for negation, with no restriction--it does not even need to be in the same plane as the use being negated. Any events that occurred after the negated use of MF was used resolve themselves in whatever way the Munchkarut wants.

AuraTwilight
2013-06-30, 04:51 PM
Too bad Pun-Pun already gave himself the Doesn't need Manipulate Form anymore to benefit from its effects quality.

Amechra
2013-06-30, 04:53 PM
That wouldn't work; you don't need "stops any use of Manipulate Form, ever", you need "no Munchkarut ability can be duplicated through Manipulate Form."

Jormengand
2013-06-30, 05:37 PM
I generally just use "Oh, well suddenly the Lady of Pain/a creature which can do anything it likes as a free action appears. It's going to stick you in a maze, which has nothing but a short corridor leading to the exit, which in turn has the words "Don't do it again" written on it." (Sometimes written in explosive runes, if I'm feeling nasty) The next time, I put them in repeatedly longer and more annoying mazes until they get the point. No need to RFED, but the players stop screwing around.

137ben
2013-06-30, 05:40 PM
Too bad Pun-Pun already gave himself the Doesn't need Manipulate Form anymore to benefit from its effects quality.

Nope, see, the Munchkarut can negate every time that pun-pun ever used manipulate form, retroactively if needed. Now there is no pun-pun, and their retroactively never has been a pun-pun.

vasharanpaladin
2013-06-30, 05:47 PM
Rule Zero Incarnate (Ex): The munchkarut is the DM's will given terrible form. This ability allows the munchkarut to specifically rewrite each and every ability, spell, power, feat, item or practically anything a player character has access to as the DM sees fit. This rule specifically calls out each such rule individually and thus overrules all other rules up to and including itself. This ability can never be obtained via Manipulate Form or any option conceivably available to PCs.

...

There is your anti-Pun-Pun feature. :smallbiggrin:

Pokonic
2013-06-30, 06:05 PM
A possible ability, just to hammer home the antimunchkinry.

Already Here: There can be only one Munchkarut on a plane at one time. Any attempt to summon, Call, or contact a Munchkarut on another plane fails automatically, and if the Munchkarut chooses it may teleport to the area where this ability triggered and use Rocks Fall as a free action.

TuggyNE
2013-06-30, 07:13 PM
A possible ability, just to hammer home the antimunchkinry.

Already Here: There can be only one Munchkarut on a plane at one time. Any attempt to summon, Call, or contact a Munchkarut on another plane fails automatically, and if the Munchkarut chooses it may teleport to the area where this ability triggered and use Rocks Fall as a free action.

This is amusing, but I'm not sure it's needed for anything specific. Munchkaruts can already deal with this, I'd think.

As far as the other back-and-forth ability suggestions: No, the Munchkarut is not intended for play with six-year-olds. :smallyuk:

Eurus
2013-06-30, 07:16 PM
Too bad Pun-Pun has the I automatically beat Munchkaruts Nener Nener (ex) ability.


Too bad Pun-Pun already gave himself the Doesn't need Manipulate Form anymore to benefit from its effects quality.

I thought the whole point here was that the Munchkarut can sense anyone who's going to go Pun-Pun within the next week and go stomp on them before they do, hence, no Pun-Pun and no Manipulate Form.

That being said, this is an incredibly silly argument.

AuraTwilight
2013-06-30, 07:24 PM
I thought the whole point here was that the Munchkarut can sense anyone who's going to go Pun-Pun within the next week and go stomp on them before they do, hence, no Pun-Pun and no Manipulate Form.

That being said, this is an incredibly silly argument.

but someone's already invented Pun-Pun therefore he already exists and he cares nothing for your temporal shenanigans because he can just come from a timeline where the Munchkarut doesn't exist. :P

And yea it's a silly argument. Fun though.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-01, 12:03 AM
And technically there should be some form of Pun-Pun who became Ao or some other Elseworlds shennigans. Or the Ur-Pun-Pun, who is the exact shape and size of the Perfect Pain in the DM's Ass, which, of course, is the Ur-Pun-Pun. Cookies to anyone who recognizes the reference.

I'm personally trying to point out that you really can't stop Pun-Pun from happening in game if the parties involved are creative enough and willing to go the extra mile.

AuraTwilight
2013-07-01, 12:12 AM
And technically there should be some form of Pun-Pun who became Ao or some other Elseworlds shennigans. Or the Ur-Pun-Pun, who is the exact shape and size of the Perfect Pain in the DM's Ass, which, of course, is the Ur-Pun-Pun. Cookies to anyone who recognizes the reference.

That already exists; it's called Pun-Pun.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-01, 12:26 AM
That already exists; it's called Pun-Pun.

*whoosh*

Damn 10 character limit.

Edit:

And if you were talking about the Ao statement, then you're wrong. Pun-Pun has arbitrarily high, but defined statistics. Ao is statless.

AuraTwilight
2013-07-01, 12:50 AM
Ao is statless.

...As far as we know of.

Speaking of, has anyone noticed that Ao and the Lady of Pain have never been in the same room? Hmmmmm.

Arkhosia
2013-07-01, 01:09 AM
I generally just use "Oh, well suddenly the Lady of Pain/a creature which can do anything it likes as a free action appears. It's going to stick you in a maze, which has nothing but a short corridor leading to the exit, which in turn has the words "Don't do it again" written on it." (Sometimes written in explosive runes, if I'm feeling nasty) The next time, I put them in repeatedly longer and more annoying mazes until they get the point. No need to RFED, but the players stop screwing around.

And if it was a really bad thing, you add a second "exit" that has the words "I prepared explosive runes this morning" on the wall. The ensuing explosion drops the offender in the nearest settlement to his adventuring group at 1 hp with a scroll of Send Message.

TuggyNE
2013-07-01, 03:16 AM
I'm personally trying to point out that you really can't stop Pun-Pun from happening in game if the parties involved are creative enough and willing to go the extra mile.

Yes, which is why this is a semi-silly monster, and the Gentlemen's Agreement in my sig is where the good sense is.

Still, it's fun to think of something that can handle nearly anything.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-01, 03:04 PM
Yes, which is why this is a semi-silly monster, and the Gentlemen's Agreement in my sig is where the good sense is.

Still, it's fun to think of something that can handle nearly anything.

Oh, I wasn't saying anything against the monster, just that the Anti-Pun-Pun arguments are half the fun of a thread like this. :smallbiggrin:

Arcanist
2013-07-01, 05:38 PM
I've fixed one big embarrassing problem, and several other smaller ones, but there are probably a few problems remaining, and in any case, as the Stuffy Doll showed, it's quite difficult to optimization-proof a monster, so the Munchkaruts content themselves with preemptive strikes on any characters cheesy enough to one day challenge them seriously. (As well as their usual task of hunting down cheesy or game-disrupting characters in general.)

I would appreciate hearing of any significant, easy-to-patch problems, though!

If Stuffy Doll has taught us anything, it is that if something has stats it can die :smalltongue: I actually used Stuffy Doll as a creature in a Call of Cthulhu game once. The PCs each got a miniature version of the Stuffy Doll that functioned as eyes and ears for the original stuffy doll (which was a featureless doll, that is heavily stitched together); I tried to downplay the importance on the Doll and knew that the PCs would follow the red herrings into oblivion. They drove themselves insane trying to figure out what the hell the Stuffy Doll was and eventually one PC got a significantly high Knowledge check that they actually became aware of the Stuff Doll, took sanity damage, and became a target of the Stuffy Doll (whose Curse ability I significantly nerfed down).

He was an enemy of knowledge, an enemy of the eyes and the mind; Using your own sense against you, he waits and prays you do not find him, for if you find him... He will end you... All just to delete himself from the Multiverse...

Lately I've been contemplating making the Stuffy Doll an Elder Evil and working it down from that :smallamused:

Waker
2013-07-01, 06:07 PM
Spirit of the Law (Ex)- A Munchkarut has the ability to enforce the will of the universe. At any time that a being attempts to subvert the intent of one of the universal laws, a Munchkarut can clarify and reinforce these laws. The effect is similar to a Deities Godly Realm Salient ability, except that the Munchkarut isn't limited to a certain location. The Munchkarut can change the flow of time, physical laws that mortals must follow and the mechanics of magic.

Amechra
2013-07-01, 07:15 PM
Kobold Exclusion Principle [Ex]: Kobolds are not Scaled Ones of Toril.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2013-07-01, 10:35 PM
Oh My Gosh, What's Happening to Your Character Sheet? (Ex): Munchkarut kills you and erases you from existence. You die and cannot be raised through any means, period. What do you mean you can't be killed? I don't remember that. Where'd your sheet go, can you show me? It's where? Dude, I can't read that, half of it's burned off. Did something try to eat this? Is that wolf urine?

EDIT:
Preemptively:
Oh, You Brought a Spare? (Ex): Oh, cool. Let me check it out. Woops, I'm such a klutz, let me just — Whoooah! Is this an incontinent wolf shelter or something? Here, I'll dry it off with my lighter. . .

Also, much as Munchkarut is not necessarily advocated as a solution to out-of-game problems, I do not recommend or endorse incontinent wolves as a solution to any problem.

NeoPhoenix0
2013-07-01, 11:51 PM
Does all feats include dragon feats? Does all feats include feats he doesn't qualify for? If the answer to the last two questions is yes then i'm afraid all munchkaruts upon creation are inexplicably turned into elves and killed by nearby kobolds as per the Elf feat Dragon Magazine #342 pg 65.

TuggyNE
2013-07-02, 05:56 AM
Spirit of the Law (Ex)- A Munchkarut has the ability to enforce the will of the universe. At any time that a being attempts to subvert the intent of one of the universal laws, a Munchkarut can clarify and reinforce these laws. The effect is similar to a Deities Godly Realm Salient ability, except that the Munchkarut isn't limited to a certain location. The Munchkarut can change the flow of time, physical laws that mortals must follow and the mechanics of magic.

That's actually kind of cool. Hadn't thought of that.


Does all feats include dragon feats? Does all feats include feats he doesn't qualify for? If the answer to the last two questions is yes then i'm afraid all munchkaruts upon creation are inexplicably turned into elves and killed by nearby kobolds as per the Elf feat Dragon Magazine #342 pg 65.

Only the feats it qualifies for. (Also, who says they were created? Maybe they just kind of are. :smalltongue:)

Waker
2013-07-02, 07:29 AM
That's actually kind of cool. Hadn't thought of that.
Figured it would be appropriate for an anti-"That's what RAW says!" type, when there is clearly a different intent for some rules. I also liked the tongue in cheek joke with having a Lawful being possessing a power called "Spirit of the Law" in relation to RAI.

Arcanist
2013-07-02, 07:58 AM
Oh My Gosh, What's Happening to Your Character Sheet? (Ex): Munchkarut kills you and erases you from existence. You die and cannot be raised through any means, period. What do you mean you can't be killed? I don't remember that. Where'd your sheet go, can you show me? It's where? Dude, I can't read that, half of it's burned off. Did something try to eat this? Is that wolf urine?

EDIT:
Preemptively:
Oh, You Brought a Spare? (Ex): Oh, cool. Let me check it out. Woops, I'm such a klutz, let me just — Whoooah! Is this an incontinent wolf shelter or something? Here, I'll dry it off with my lighter. . .

Also, much as Munchkarut is not necessarily advocated as a solution to out-of-game problems, I do not recommend or endorse incontinent wolves as a solution to any problem.

42 (Ex): The Munchkarut is inherently knowledgeable of the answer to the question (while not knowing the question at all). The Munchkarut can turn any numeral effect (HP, DvR, Saving throw, Skill ranks, etc.) in the game to a maximum of 42 to 0. This is a non-action that invokes an infinite number of attacks of opportunity against the Munchkarut.

How about "No"? (Ex): The Munchkarut is immune to all damage from attacks of opportunity. There appears to be a note left here "Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha"

Leliel
2013-07-02, 08:10 AM
but someone's already invented Pun-Pun therefore he already exists and he cares nothing for your temporal shenanigans because he can just come from a timeline where the Munchkarut doesn't exist. :P

And yea it's a silly argument. Fun though.

Bullcrap Immunity (All Of Them): What do mean, your character already exists somewhere? This is your DM's game, it's not like it's a shared universe with other games.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-02, 10:46 AM
Bullcrap Immunity (All Of Them): What do mean, your character already exists somewhere? This is your DM's game, it's not like it's a shared universe with other games.

That's not really an in-game thing though.

Arcanist
2013-07-02, 10:54 AM
That's not really an in-game thing though.

How about this ability then?

NOPE! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14) (Ex): When the Munchkarot appears on a plane, momentarily all Planar boundaries drift to the point where they can only be accessed by the Munchkarot. This prevents not only other creatures from relying upon such means of travel, but prevents information from traveling as well. While a Munchkarot is in a plane, the plane cannot be scryed through a scry spell upon or inquired about through a commune, contact other plane or commune with nature spell(s). This also applies to Divine abilities.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-03, 08:50 AM
How about this ability then?

NOPE! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14) (Ex): When the Munchkarot appears on a plane, momentarily all Planar boundaries drift to the point where they can only be accessed by the Munchkarot. This prevents not only other creatures from relying upon such means of travel, but prevents information from traveling as well. While a Munchkarot is in a plane, the plane cannot be scryed through a scry spell upon or inquired about through a commune, contact other plane or commune with nature spell(s). This also applies to Divine abilities.

Now that's better.

But I'm getting curious now...does Primus have immunity to all of the Munchkarot's powers?

TuggyNE
2013-07-03, 07:14 PM
But I'm getting curious now...does Primus have immunity to all of the Munchkarot's powers?

Why would he? Modrons and Inevitables are two quite different things.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-03, 07:25 PM
Why would he? Modrons and Inevitables are two quite different things.

I thought he was the general deity for all of Mechanus.

TuggyNE
2013-07-03, 10:29 PM
I thought he was the general deity for all of Mechanus.

So far as I know, Primus isn't actually a deity in the strict sense, just the head of the Modrons. (Which, of course, is a fair bit of power, more than many Rank 1 deities, but eh.)

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-07-04, 08:08 AM
C'mon guys, you don't need a custom creature to stop metagaming when normal rules and your own campaign setting can do it;


1) A long time ago in a DnD world far far away, De Em, the first ever being to access epic magic realized its unlimited potential and the danger it posed to the universe. Using that epic magic and the inverse-timeless trait of the Far Realm where no time passes for the world however much time passes there, it created an unlimited number of willing participants (through "Origin of Species" and a permanent domination) and used them to cast several epic spells of unlimited basic DC that safeguard the Cosmos.

2) The first spell cast was a permanent ward and transform effect that affected the entire multiverse. The "warding" effect prevents magic effects of any level from working, limited to those that threaten the world's balance. The "transform" effect transformed all creatures in the universe (including those normally immune to such transformations) to lesser versions of themselves that did not have balance-threatening abilities and made those abilities inheritable to subsequent generations.

3) The second spell cast was a permanent damaging aura that affected the entire multiverse. The aura part deals an infinite number of damage with no save and the secondary effect can destroy magical barriers and fields like other Destroy-seed spells but with an infinite bonus to its check. This would normally slay all creatures (and keep slaying them round after round) except that it is limited to affecting creatures that attempt to threaten the balance of the universe.

4) The last spell cast was a mighty illusion that affected the entire universe. Impenetrable to less powerful divinations than itself, it conceals the existence of the Balance-enforcing spells and the fate of any creature that attempts to breach that balance, including from such creatures themselves; the illusion continues even in the Outer Planes where such creatures would go as petitioners once slain.







Basically, only magic that the "De Em" approves of works in the setting, only creatures the "De Em" approves of are in the setting, if you threaten the balance of the universe it's an automatic "rocks fall, you die" and in-game characters never know how or why this happens, even if it happens to them. All it requires is the "De Em" to have been (in-game) the first ever character to use an infinite power exploit - which, as setting background, is up to the GM by definition.

Basically, in this game there is no "rule zero", just a DMPC that is RAW-omnipotent and prevents everyone else from becoming omnipotent. (the first thing any omnipotent character would do if they were smart)