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young_genuis
2013-07-01, 03:18 PM
Im DMing a campaign for some of my freinds, and i need some ideas. I'm wanting to do something where they are evil. Some extra information. it would be 3.5 and about 4 players

Yora
2013-07-01, 03:20 PM
The most important thing is that they have a shared goal. Anything that makes them work together and wanting each other as allies to help each other.

Rakoa
2013-07-01, 03:20 PM
Any idea on starting level and party composition?

Xeratos
2013-07-01, 03:47 PM
The trickiest part of running an evil campaign is to give them enough motivation to work with each other and keep them from running amok doing little beyond random destruction of people and property. Unless of course you're going for that sort of game, in which case, have fun.

Part 1: Motivation

Evil parties don't generally have the same incentives to work together that good parties have. While good parties may do things because it's right, for the greater good, to help someone in need, and so on, evil parties do things for one reason and one reason only: to further their own agendas. They might help someone in need, but only if they can see a reason to do so that benefits them. Here are some generic ideas for motivating an evil party:

1: Treasure! Specifically: gold and magic items. This is a no-brainer.
2. Prestige. Titles and lands, joining the ranks of the nobility, or even building up a reputation. Pretending to be a good person generally works better for making connections in society than admitting to being a bad one. The people that need to know you're evil will (like the assassin's guild you're part of), and everyone else can live in ignorance.
3. Revenge. This can be a powerful driving force for both good and evil, depending on who exactly you want revenge on and for what reasons. Good people are out to avenge their families/friends/mentors, but evil people just want to stick it to that guy who outbid him on the auction, who beat him to the girl, who exposed their plot before it was ready, and so on.
4. Bad People have friends too. Just because you're evil doesn't mean it's just you and your minions. Not everybody is Lord Voldemort. The easiest way for evil PCs to get along is to actually be friends with the rest of their party. They can be fine with screwing over everyone else, but being evil doesn't mean you can't be loyal.

Part 2: Curving Destructive Tendencies

This is actually pretty easy. Smart players realize that there's always someone better, and that the more noticeable their activities are, the better the odds of drawing the attention of someone they don't want to deal with. If your players aren't smart enough to figure this out on their own, then the first time some npc paladin tracks them down and slaughters half the party, they'll get the message. Resurrection isn't cheap, you know. Also, good revenge plot hook!

Part 3: Campaign Hooks

1. The party worked for the BBEG. After the good guys busted in, trashed him, and stole all his loot, they're left as out-of-work mooks looking for the next big gig.
2. A rival guild in a big city has been making some territory pushes. As low level bruisers and enforcers, it's the party's job to push back.
3. A member of the party is being blackmailed about illicit affairs, so he and his friends decide to teach the blackmailer a lesson about messing with the wrong people.
4. A paladin lord has decided to sweep the land of wrong doings, and the party ends up on the run from his legions.
5. An ancient text describes an artifact of great power, and some do-gooders are trying to prevent the party from obtaining it for their own nefarious ends (this is a classic, just from the opposite point of view).

Xefas
2013-07-01, 05:05 PM
Some adventure ideas!

"Help! --
1) -- the basement of the warehouse we use for slave trafficking is infested with Celestial Rats! Clear them out before they can gnaw through the ropes binding our merchandise."

2) -- this Orcish mining settlement that supplies the iron for our war engines is plagued by a swarm of Halflings that live in the hills just outside of town! Clear out all the able-bodied adults. It's up to you what to do with the non-combatants. Is it more Evil to kill Halfling babies because they're Good? Or is it more Evil to let them live, so they can grow up to know the pain of loss? Isn't that the eternal alignment debate?"

3) -- a valiant knight is defending a town from being terrorized by a dragon! Slay him, and bring me back his skin, so I can make it into a suit of Paladinhide Armor for you."

4) -- the old crypt beneath our monastery has recently become haunted by a group of Deathless! Their positive energy has consecrated the foul power stirring within, to the point where the dead will no longer rise to do our unholy bidding."

5) -- our ritual to call forth Demogorgon into this realm and bring about the end of all things is almost finished! But a group of ragtag adventurers that we foolishly allowed to survive until a high enough level to where they could defeat us, by consistently challenging them with level-appropriate encounters, has arrived to stop us. Defend the ritual site for 5 minutes, so it may be completed."

Xeratos
2013-07-01, 08:21 PM
Some adventure ideas!

"Help! --
1) -- the basement of the warehouse we use for slave trafficking is infested with Celestial Rats! Clear them out before they can gnaw through the ropes binding our merchandise."

2) -- this Orcish mining settlement that supplies the iron for our war engines is plagued by a swarm of Halflings that live in the hills just outside of town! Clear out all the able-bodied adults. It's up to you what to do with the non-combatants. Is it more Evil to kill Halfling babies because they're Good? Or is it more Evil to let them live, so they can grow up to know the pain of loss? Isn't that the eternal alignment debate?"

3) -- a valiant knight is defending a town from being terrorized by a dragon! Slay him, and bring me back his skin, so I can make it into a suit of Paladinhide Armor for you."

4) -- the old crypt beneath our monastery has recently become haunted by a group of Deathless! Their positive energy has consecrated the foul power stirring within, to the point where the dead will no longer rise to do our unholy bidding."

5) -- our ritual to call forth Demogorgon into this realm and bring about the end of all things is almost finished! But a group of ragtag adventurers that we foolishly allowed to survive until a high enough level to where they could defeat us, by consistently challenging them with level-appropriate encounters, has arrived to stop us. Defend the ritual site for 5 minutes, so it may be completed."

These sound a lot like adventure hooks for good PCs, just with the victims flipped over from fiendish rats to celestial rats, with the graveyard being consecrated instead of desecrated. Why do I, as a bad person, care about your problems?

Hadrian_Emrys
2013-07-01, 08:27 PM
Survival in a really unfair setting tends to make working together a self-serving act and allows for a 'shades of gray' ethical degeneration to occur naturally. If the environment is going to hell and the group is repeatedly shown that they can trust nobody but each other, you end up with a party of crazed dogs.

Xefas
2013-07-01, 08:55 PM
These sound a lot like adventure hooks for good PCs, just with the victims flipped over from fiendish rats to celestial rats, with the graveyard being consecrated instead of desecrated.

Whaaaat? Impossible! :smalltongue:


Why do I, as a bad person, care about your problems?

Well, Evil people still get paid. Unless they have Vow of Paucity. (It's like Vow of Poverty, only instead of owning nothing because you give everything to charity, you own nothing because you have an unfortunate psychological derangement that forces you to throw all of your possessions at nearby children or small animals, leaving you perpetually destitute. The Lower Planes, impressed by your dedication to wanton violence, grant you a blessing in the form of equipment-replicating bonuses and additional Vile feats.)

Xeratos
2013-07-01, 09:57 PM
Whaaaat? Impossible! :smalltongue:



Well, Evil people still get paid. Unless they have Vow of Paucity. (It's like Vow of Poverty, only instead of owning nothing because you give everything to charity, you own nothing because you have an unfortunate psychological derangement that forces you to throw all of your possessions at nearby children or small animals, leaving you perpetually destitute. The Lower Planes, impressed by your dedication to wanton violence, grant you a blessing in the form of equipment-replicating bonuses and additional Vile feats.)

This needs to be a thing.

Mutazoia
2013-07-01, 10:16 PM
Im DMing a campaign for some of my freinds, and i need some ideas. I'm wanting to do something where they are evil. Some extra information. it would be 3.5 and about 4 players

You could always go for the "Less of two Evils" hook...

The PC's are evil...they are press-ganged into service of the BBEG who is looking to resurrect some ancient "Dead" God. The PC's don't particularly care for being press-ganged...espescially when they find out that the new "recruits" are forced to undergo a ritual wich involves becoming partially possessed by the ACD (Ancient Dead God) and losing all their free will. The PC's promptly escape from a maximum security prison to the Los Angeles Underground...oops...to the neighboring country side. Now they have the servents of the BBEG hunting them down (deserters are NOT thought of kindly) and it is pretty obvious that they won't stand a chance on their own. They must stick together to survive and find some way to get the BBEG off their backs....the most obvious way is to just kill the bastich. The only way to kill the BBEG is to gain power....lots and lots of power...as fast as possible. Finding ancient magical items, getting rich enough to buy/bribe/blackmail nobles to gain control of cities and their armies. Rape/pillage/plunder all in the name of power.

VeisuItaTyhjyys
2013-07-01, 10:24 PM
I've only ever played in one specifically Evil Campaign whose hook I really enjoyed, although it's best suited to higher levels. In the campaign, we were the Evil Overlords, the big bads hiding at the end of the dungeons adventurers fought their way through on the way to glory. As a result of being able to sit in our throne rooms chillaxing while the forces of good tried in vain to kill us, we learned something that none of those goody-two-shoes figured out, what with all the extra time we had to pour over arcane texts and consult or evil deities and so on. We weren't the biggest bads, we just thought we were because they'd been gone for a long time. Now, though? They were coming back, whatever they were.

If we were the type that wanted to conquer to conquer the world, we obviously weren't about to let these omnicidal maniacs destroy our prize; if we were the type that wanted to destroy the world, hey, we were gonna be the ones to do it, not those eldrich abomination jerks who think they're so cool with all those dumb tentacles. Regardless, we had a common enemy for the time being, and it would take all of our combined might to stand against them and show these extra-dimensional chumps what being bad means. Of course, none of the paladins and Gandalf-wannabes of the world believed us for a second, so we had to deal with the forces of good trying to destroy us while we fought the battle of our lives to save their na´ve asses.

All in all, it's a fun riff on some classic plots that, more than any other evil campaign I've been in, actually made me feel animosity against the forces of good.

Xuldarinar
2013-07-01, 10:51 PM
I think some things to consider are: Why are they evil and why are they together.

To me, a well done evil campaign doesn't have the characters running around saying they are evil. I feel it should be the characters are more likely to survive taking the less than moral high ground. Give more opportunity to do evil deeds, and give them "good" reasons to do them. Keep the wrong thing to do to be in their best interests. Possibly let them play good and have them fall into darkness. Maybe do not even have alignment being an open matter at the table. Most villains don't think they are evil, why should your group be any different?

There should be a bottom line as to why they are working together. Selfishness and adventuring parties are a lot like oil and water. A common goal is one way to approach this problem, forcing co-operation. Another is convenience. No one in the group shares a goal, but their interests/destination/ect. overlap enough that it is in their best interests to work side by side.

zorenathres
2013-07-01, 11:10 PM
The party could be a "necessary evil", working for a lord or patron who must keep up appearances, tasked with handling his "dirty work" & ensuring that their master remains untouched. Eventually, PC's who have proven themselves may be put in positions to handle their patrons underground operations (their master could have anything from black market operations, smuggling, gambling, or whatever vice you deem appropriate).

Yora
2013-07-02, 03:26 AM
2. Prestige. Titles and lands, joining the ranks of the nobility, or even building up a reputation. Pretending to be a good person generally works better for making connections in society than admitting to being a bad one. The people that need to know you're evil will (like the assassin's guild you're part of), and everyone else can live in ignorance.
3. Revenge. This can be a powerful driving force for both good and evil, depending on who exactly you want revenge on and for what reasons. Good people are out to avenge their families/friends/mentors, but evil people just want to stick it to that guy who outbid him on the auction, who beat him to the girl, who exposed their plot before it was ready, and so on.

I found these two to be particularly effective. Nothing motivates evil characters like their pride. I took over a campaign with rotating GMs that had mostly evil characters, and it was at a point after they had just cleared a remote keep on the frontier. So I started my adventure by some villagers showing up at the gate while the PCs where still camping there, offering their service for protection from monsters and other local bandits.
That was quite effective to get them to stop with random evil and starting to be constructive.

young_genuis
2013-07-02, 06:11 PM
Whaaaat? Impossible! :smalltongue:



Well, Evil people still get paid. Unless they have Vow of Paucity. (It's like Vow of Poverty, only instead of owning nothing because you give everything to charity, you own nothing because you have an unfortunate psychological derangement that forces you to throw all of your possessions at nearby children or small animals, leaving you perpetually destitute. The Lower Planes, impressed by your dedication to wanton violence, grant you a blessing in the form of equipment-replicating bonuses and additional Vile feats.)

Next Evil Campaign i play in im using this. it is AWESOME!!!!

young_genuis
2013-07-02, 06:14 PM
Also as far as motivations go. I'm gonna pre make the characters and personalities. But I want them to be motivated by different things. Maybe one revenge one money one this one that. but can i get some help on a plot line?

GunbladeKnight
2013-07-02, 07:30 PM
I would look at various villains from games and movies and take queues from their motivations.

Loki: Always felt like he was in Thor's shadow and wanted to prove himself. Sure he manipulates people and kills a few people to further his goals, but he will be king.

Kuja: Didn't want to be someone's slave. He manipulates people into slaughtering millions and essentially poison's the planet just to get a soul.

Yellow turban army: Group of peasants that grew tired of the corruption in the government and the contempt of the nobles. Eventually just became a large army of rapers and pillagers that would kill everyone not allied with them.

karkus
2013-07-02, 07:35 PM
Snippity snap

I literally LOLed at this post :smallbiggrin:

Grimsage Matt
2013-07-02, 10:15 PM
Have them be in charge of a kingdom, but don't let it be all white and black. Show them the morally questionable choices that have to be made, the trade offs that have to be weighed, and the true nature of war. Show them there is no good or evil, not when things get that big, but rather its all shades of grey.

Alternitvly, let them rise among an "evil" race. But they have been forced to be evil because of procution from the "good" races. It started a long time ago, and now they are evil, but only to survive, and now lets change that. Let us see how the elves, dwarves and humans would fare living harrassed, put into the wastelands, rarely given a moments rest. Let them see how it feels for a change!

Hanuman
2013-07-04, 01:14 AM
Tempt them with creation, running a criminal organization, a cult, a slave or drug ring, give them something to build, work on and cherish.

TripleD
2013-07-04, 09:50 AM
Have a Chaotic Good Fighter with Int as a dump stat.

Like Homer working for Hank Scorpio, they are completely oblivious to the utter evil of their party members.

young_genuis
2013-07-05, 04:58 PM
Have a Chaotic Good Fighter with Int as a dump stat.

Like Homer working for Hank Scorpio, they are completely oblivious to the utter evil of their party members.
Yeah i did this in one campaign it was so fun. But i still need some plot ideas

Lord Vukodlak
2013-07-06, 06:22 AM
A good party saves the village from the rampaging orcs because they're saving a village. An evil party saves the village from the rampaging orcs because its profitable.

Many of the classic heroic adventures can be done with evil protagonists not only does it work it can be a damn good time.

Alright so the villain has several hostages scattered about the room hanging from chains almost completely helpless. The good aligned party can't just fill the room with stinking clouds or fireballs because they'll hurt innocent people. The evil align party likely won't give a damn about the hostages,(unless there pay is dependent on them).

A common cliche in adventuring is to find out the guy who hired you was a liar and the guys your fighting are the good guys. Well I was in this group and were hired to take care of some bandits, turns out our employer lied us. These were in fact paladins raiding caravans carrying evil magic items. To top that off our employer had used s combination of disguise and alignment concealing magic to secretly lead the paladins in stealing these items for himself.

Did that stop my Lawful Evil Cleric from killing the paladins, nope. I even congratulated the mastermind for the wonderful job he did tricking the paladins and leading them to there doom. Then I smashed him upside the head because I don't like being used, he managed to get away but I vowed to hunt him down and end him...

Mutazoia
2013-07-06, 09:22 AM
Have a Chaotic Good Fighter with Int as a dump stat.

Like Homer working for Hank Scorpio, they are completely oblivious to the utter evil of their party members.

Kind of like a reverse Belkar...