Elves and metalworking (FR)

[Starshade]

Got a question about the lore of Forgotten Realms, any system really. Is there some details about elven mining, or how they get metal? Many other elves in fantasy simply mine it, and were I to make my own D&D world I'd simply make some magical solution to avoid High elven strip mining projects. Tho, is there some lore somewhere on where they get it from, or am I just a lore nitpicker? :smallsmile:

[tyckspoon]

If you don't want them to mine it directly, the traditional answer is 'buy it from the Dwarves.' Or sometimes the humans, but generally fantasy Dwarves have a lot of ores and gems and other ground-derived resources to trade.

[LibraryOgre]

Slaves. Those that don't die of elven cancer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNrLMob39qI)

More seriously, I would put it at a balance between mining, purchase, and extraction from the quasielemental plane of minerals, depending on their level of sophistication... early elven societies would do their own mining, as they developed they purchase, and just before the inevitable magical apocalypse, they'd simply call them from the quasielemental plane.

[OverdrivePrime]

Elven bioengineering/magic has developed a derivative of sequoia trees that extracts metal from the ground and processes into fibers in the trees needles and seed cones. The resulting trees glimmer and sound like millions of tiny wind chimes in the breeze.

Dwarves hate these trees as abominations and destroy them wherever they can.

[The Rose Dragon]

...what exactly is wrong with mining?

[OverdrivePrime]

...what exactly is wrong with mining?

Not much wrong with small-scale, careful mining. Large scale mining tends to make a bit of a mess for the surrounding environment. I can see elves not being cool with poisoning local aquifers or leaving huge ugly pits all over the place.

[LibraryOgre]

...what exactly is wrong with mining?

Largely, it is out of character for elves to be slaving in the mines, when they can have others slave for them.

Though I also like the idea of the drow being an underclass of miners, originally, who rebelled...

[The Rose Dragon]

Largely, it is out of character for elves to be slaving in the mines, when they can have others slave for them.

Though I also like the idea of the drow being an underclass of miners, originally, who rebelled...

I can totally see the elves of Thedas being forced to mine for humans, personally, as well as all the Mer (except possibly the Bosmer) having various mining operations to claim all of the earth's riches before humans can get near them.

[The Fury]

Provided that the elves are not isolationists they'd probably trade for it. Either from dwarves, like what was mentioned earlier, or more likely humans. In most settings humans are all over the place and they'd definitely mine iron, so finding a group of humans that would trade iron would be fairly easy.
If the elves are isolationist, (they are in some settings,) maybe metal would be extracted by magic or maybe metal is rare but not unknown. In the latter case elvish swords, knives and such would be metal but armor probably would not, sort of like feudal Japan.

In a setting that my friend came up with all elvish weapons were of masterwork quality. I suggested that the reason for this is because elves use some advanced metallurgy, perhaps using a form of crucible steel like wootz. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz)

[Blightedmarsh]

But those pit become lakes, the ground water will run clear in a piffling five thousand years. Elves can afford to burn, strip and pillage because they know that nature -much like humanity- is a renewable resource.

[Seharvepernfan]

If you don't want them to mine it directly, the traditional answer is 'buy it from the Dwarves.' Or sometimes the humans, but generally fantasy Dwarves have a lot of ores and gems and other ground-derived resources to trade.

I was going to say this. I can't point out where, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that they get it from dwarves. I always wondered what they traded for it.

[The Fury]

I was going to say this. I can't point out where, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that they get it from dwarves. I always wondered what they traded for it.

My guess, (provided that these are your typical forest-dwelling elves,) furs, timber, salted meat, dried fruit, herbs, cloth, and maybe spellcasting. This is also assuming that the dwarves are the typical mountain-dwelling types, seeing as how all this stuff that they could get from the elves might be harder to obtain by themselves.

[nedz]

Elves send their children to work down the pit. Not until they've done at least 50 years hard graft down the mines are they allowed out. That's why you never meet elves who are less than 100; it's also why they love the forests so much.

The elves don't talk about this, of course, but those mithril shirts don't grow on trees.

[OverdrivePrime]

Elves send their children to work down the pit. Not until they've done at least 50 years hard graft down the mines are they allowed out. That's why you never meet elves who are less than 100; it's also why they love the forests so much.

The elves don't talk about this, of course, but those mithril shirts don't grow on trees.

Aaaaaah. That makes so much sense now. Pretty much everything about elven society could be explained by this.

[LibraryOgre]

I can totally see the elves of Thedas being forced to mine for humans, personally, as well as all the Mer (except possibly the Bosmer) having various mining operations to claim all of the earth's riches before humans can get near them.

Yeah, well, the Mer are a special case... being pretty well insane. I refer more to the stereotypical AD&D elves (as one would find in FR), rather than "any conceivable elf".

I mean, the elves of Athas would simply steal it, after all.

[Wardog]

Got a question about the lore of Forgotten Realms, any system really. Is there some details about elven mining, or how they get metal? Many other elves in fantasy simply mine it, and were I to make my own D&D world I'd simply make some magical solution to avoid High elven strip mining projects. Tho, is there some lore somewhere on where they get it from, or am I just a lore nitpicker? :smallsmile:

Why would they be strip-mining? I don't think anyone strip-mined in pre-industrial times.

[Beleriphon]

Why would they be strip-mining? I don't think anyone strip-mined in pre-industrial times.

The Romans used a type of strip mining called opencast mining. Rather than dig into a hill they'd start at the top and strip it going down. They also used more typical mines (at least as far as we're concerned) and even used water wheels to keep water out.

In fact during the medieval period open pit mining was actually pretty common. This was largely because it was easier, and safe that fully underground mining.

[tasw]

I would say they probably mine for it like normal but use a lot of things like iron wood or japanese style wood and silk armors so that they actually use a lot less metal then humans or dwarves.

Also the biggest problem with mining comes when people are in a rush. Elves could conceivably slowly kick back and mine very carefully using special spells and rituals to purify run off from mine works and to mitigate the other damage from mining.

[Seharvepernfan]

Elves could conceivably slowly kick back and mine very carefully using special spells and rituals to purify run off from mine works and to mitigate the other damage from mining.

Why I never thought of this, I have no idea.

[Ravens_cry]

Bog iron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron).
As long as it's kept fairly small scale, sounds like it would fit the 'Path of nature' kind of thing you are going for here.

[erikun]

Elven bioengineering/magic has developed a derivative of sequoia trees that extracts metal from the ground and processes into fibers in the trees needles and seed cones. The resulting trees glimmer and sound like millions of tiny wind chimes in the breeze.

Dwarves hate these trees as abominations and destroy them wherever they can.
I've had a similar idea, where elves had trees that leeched iron out of the ground and worked it into the bark. The result was natural ironwood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironwood.htm), which flaked off and was harvested by the elves.

Needless to say, elves are very protective of such trees.