PDA

View Full Version : New Spell: Enchanter's Bane



Tormsskull
2006-12-08, 07:23 AM
Enchanter's Bane
School: Enchantment
Level: Wiz/Sor 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: 1 creature touched
Duration: Special (see text)
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Created by a paranoid wizard who's minion were always being charmed, Enchanter's Bane turns a normal person or being into a hostile enemy the moment a Charm-type spell is cast upon them. If a creature fails a save versus this spell, there are no apparent effects. If a Charm type spell is cast upon them within the spell duration (24 hours) the recipient of the spell receives a +4 bonus to their Will save. If the save is successful, the magic of Enchanter's Bane takes effect. The spell forces the target into a homocidal rage who's anger is directed at the caster of the Charm spell. Treat this as a barbarian's Rage ability with a duration of encounter (once the encounter with the Charm-spell caster is over, the spell subsides). The effected character must move towards the Charm-type spell caster by the shortest direct path and engage them in melee.

Umarth
2006-12-08, 07:42 AM
At level 2 with a duration of 1/day per level I think this affect is a bit strong.

I'd probably have it grant a +4 or something on the DC to resist charm instead.

fangthane
2006-12-08, 01:27 PM
I'd have it last for 10 minutes per level, grant a +4 to saves against charms and domination, and if the charm or dominate save fails, THEN it kicks in and puts the person in a barbarian-like rage for 1 round + 1 round/modified con bonus (unless the person's a barbarian in which case it works exactly like a rage but doesn't consume a daily rage usage) and leaves them fatigued afterward.

Days per level is definitely a little long to leave a protective spell on someone though.
School pretty much has to be Enchantment, as it's quite obviously a mind-affecting ability. I suppose abjuration is arguable, but it's not a protection so much as a retaliatory enchantment, really.

Tormsskull
2006-12-08, 03:11 PM
Hmmmmmm,

Well, the purpose of the spell is supposed to be that it lasts a long time. If you had to go cast it on your guard's every hour or so it would be very inefficient.

So far:
-"+4 to saves against charms and domination, and if the charm or dominate save fails, THEN it kicks in" is a better idea than what I had. Changing it.

I'm going to reduce the duration to a flat 24 hours, and change the rage to be more limiting to the rager. Check it again and let me know if it is more balanced. Also, I suppose enchantment school does make sense.

Tracersmith
2006-12-08, 08:44 PM
how about 2 hrs per caster level? that way it'll start @ 6hrs... reasonable for low level.... and get better as caster go up (and has more henchmen)

Mewtarthio
2006-12-09, 02:35 AM
Or he could just stick it in a wand and hire a UMD Rogue as Captain of the Guard to administer the spell when the wizard is out. Also, I don't see what's so "Special" about the duration.

One more question:


Created by a paranoid wizard who's minion were always being charmed,

If his minions really were always being charmed, is the wizard really paranoid?

TheOOB
2006-12-09, 02:45 AM
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they arn't after you.

Tormsskull
2006-12-09, 11:42 AM
Also, I don't see what's so "Special" about the duration.


It has two durations. One is for how the the spell lasts on the target (24 hours), and the second is how long it lasts if it is triggered (encounter)



If his minions really were always being charmed, is the wizard really paranoid?

I don't see how this effects the spell at all. The idea behind the fluff is that the wizard owned a tower, had low level minions that served as guard. Throughout his long long life (hundreds of years) the most common way adventurers attacked his tower was by charming the low level minions in front to work with them. If you want to suggest better wording, I'm all ears.

Mewtarthio
2006-12-09, 06:41 PM
It has two durations. One is for how the the spell lasts on the target (24 hours), and the second is how long it lasts if it is triggered (encounter)

It seems more like "X or until discharged" to me (causing a barbarian rage once discharged), with a possible "(see text)" attached. On the whole, you want to be as informative as possible in the header.


I don't see how this effects the spell at all. The idea behind the fluff is that the wizard owned a tower, had low level minions that served as guard. Throughout his long long life (hundreds of years) the most common way adventurers attacked his tower was by charming the low level minions in front to work with them. If you want to suggest better wording, I'm all ears.

:smallfrown: I was only joking...

magic8BALL
2006-12-10, 10:58 PM
...this looks like contigiency, a 6th level Sor/Wizspell from PHB. You cast contigency on the target, and another spell at the same time. The second spell kicks in only when a cirtain triger (set at the time of casting) is met, in this case "the subject saves against a charm effect" triggers rage, a 2nd level Sor/Wiz spell from PHB.

Tormsskull
2006-12-11, 07:08 AM
...this looks like contigiency, a 6th level Sor/Wizspell from PHB. You cast contigency on the target, and another spell at the same time. The second spell kicks in only when a cirtain triger (set at the time of casting) is met, in this case "the subject saves against a charm effect" triggers rage, a 2nd level Sor/Wiz spell from PHB.

Yeah, it is sort of like contingency. The difference being that it is a lot weaker in scope (it only applies directly to charm spells) and only triggers only 1 specific spell (being rage). That's why its overall level is much lower than contingency.

My main concern when homebrewing new spells is to watch out for powergamer candy. I won't make a spell that I know can be abused by a player to do more than it is supposed to do and/or be more powerful than a comparable spell. If you think this spell is abusable in this fashion let me know in specific detail & possibly offer suggestions to change it. To be honest, I envisioned this as mostly an NPC spell. I can't see a PC making a lot of use out of it.

Edit: "The effected character must move towards the Charm-type spell caster by the shortest direct path and engage them in melee"

I was thinking that would be limiting enough that players wouldn't cast it on a whim. Basically the spell, if it works, turns the character into a drone who has to attack the person casting the charm. That could mean running through attacks of opportunity from other enemies in order to engage the spellcaster. And, if the spellcaster has a better movement speed than the affected character, the character could be chasing that spellcaster around the battlefield as all of his allies are getting FUBARed. But, I suppose what I need to do next is playtest it.

magic8BALL
2006-12-11, 07:13 AM
...I'd have it cast on any of my dwarf fighters any day (poor blokes need a kick to their saves vs charms)...

...but thats the only candy I see...

Ping_T._Squirrel
2006-12-11, 09:17 AM
If the spell has a duration of days, I feel this one is more of a level 3 or 4 range. Faaaaar too powerful for 2 because it can turn any charmspell into a rage for you if you need the fighter to have a little more front line punch. Just cast the weakest mind-effecting spell you have, and he volenteers to fail the save.

Tormsskull
2006-12-11, 09:31 AM
If the spell has a duration of days, I feel this one is more of a level 3 or 4 range. Faaaaar too powerful for 2 because it can turn any charmspell into a rage for you if you need the fighter to have a little more front line punch. Just cast the weakest mind-effecting spell you have, and he volenteers to fail the save.

You might want to read the spell again. Particularly this part:



The spell forces the target into a homocidal rage who's anger is directed at the caster of the Charm spell. Treat this as a barbarian's Rage ability with a duration of encounter (once the encounter with the Charm-spell caster is over, the spell subsides). The effected character must move towards the Charm-type spell caster by the shortest direct path and engage them in melee.


I bolded the sections to make it even easier to understand.

Mewtarthio
2006-12-11, 03:57 PM
If the spell has a duration of days, I feel this one is more of a level 3 or 4 range. Faaaaar too powerful for 2 because it can turn any charmspell into a rage for you if you need the fighter to have a little more front line punch. Just cast the weakest mind-effecting spell you have, and he volenteers to fail the save.

A) He'll immediately turn around and attack you.
B) If he fails the save, the spell does nothing. He gets the +4 bonus on the save, but the rage only kicks in if the save succeeds

fangthane
2006-12-11, 04:08 PM
It looks just about right now, if you ask me... +4 to the save is perfectly in line for the spell, if the save fails the fighter is still being Dominated by the vampire, and if it succeeds he's enraged at the vampire - but runs past the pair of ghouls to get there. He does have a bonus to his fort save vs paralysis thanks to the rage, and while he'll have a bonus to resist a second Dominate it's not overpowering. I think this spell sits very nicely as a level 2 spell, at this point. I'd still remove the "duration of encounter" and simply dictate that the recipient rages as if they were a barbarian, or per their stats if they are a barbarian, but that's the implication to me anyway and that's the way I'd rule it in my games.

Edit - realised that's unclear...
I'd explicitly state that rage lasts for 3 rounds + newly-changed con modifier and that if the character has the Rage class ability this does NOT constitute a daily usage. It does cause fatigue except as mitigated by other features, and does benefit from class features such as Greater, Tireless and Mighty Rage. Of course a Calm Emotions would likewise cancel it once triggered.

magic8BALL
2006-12-12, 08:00 PM
What wrong with the recipient rage, as the spell? +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 AC, +1 Will, no fatige at the end of rage, lasts for Concentration +1 round/level (D)... and is a 3rd level spell in the PBH, and itself an Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind Affecting] effect...

A 2nd level spell trigger a 3rd level spell... seems a bit iffy to me... and Barbarian rage is so much more powerful than the spell version!