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Cheiromancer
2013-07-26, 01:33 PM
The first feat is based on the feat Poison Immunity (Champions of Ruin, p. 21) except that I allow the bonus provided by the feat to stack with itself. Note that there are no prerequisites to Poison Immunity, not even the availability of a sample of what you are becoming immune to, or any relevant skill ranks. The following feat is also similar to Lysander's Magician's Immunity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11836), although the mechanics are different.


Spell Immunity [Antimagic]

After prolonged study of a particular magical effect, you have rendered yourself immune to it.

Benefit: Choose a spell which allows a saving throw. You are immune to that spell as well as to spell-like abilities which duplicate it, as though you possessed a saving throw high enough to beat any save DC (plus evasion or mettle as appropriate). You may no longer cast the chosen spell by any means (including the use of items or spell-like abilities). Any such attempt results in the spell being lost without effect. The immunity granted by this feat applies when you are asleep, but not when you are unconscious for some other reason. You also gain a +1 circumstance bonus to either your Fortitude, Reflex or Will saving throws, the type of saving throw being the one appropriate for the chosen spell. As a standard action you may waive or resume your immunity to the chosen spell.

Special: A character can take this feat multiple times, choosing a different spell each time. The +1 bonus against other spells and spell-like abilities stacks with itself.

A fighter may select Spell Immunity as one of his fighter bonus feats.


Given how easy it is to neutralize whole schools of magic (True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm) versus Illusion and Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) versus Enchantment *and* Divination), I am tempted to make it fairly straightforward to gain immunity to a particular school:

School Immunity [Antimagic]

You have developed immunity to a broad spectrum of magical effects.

Prerequisite: Spell Immunity to two spells of the same school.

Benefit: Choose two spells of the same school for which you have Spell Immunity. You are immune to all spells of that school, as well as spell-like abilities which duplicate those spells. This immunity functions as though you possessed spell resistance too high to be overcome, a saving throw high enough to beat any save DC (plus evasion or mettle as appropriate), and energy immunity to acid, cold, electricity, fire and force damage. You may no longer cast a spell from the affected school by any means (including the use of items or spell-like abilities). Any such attempt results in the spell being lost without effect. The immunity granted by this feat applies when you are asleep, but not when you are unconscious for some other reason. As a standard action you may waive or resume the immunity granted by this feat against a particular spell or equivalent spell-like ability.

Special: A character can take this feat multiple times, choosing a different school of magic each time.

Characters will sometimes be affected by spells that they are supposedly immune to; spells that don't deal one of the five main kinds of energy damage, don't allow SR and don't allow a saving throw. For example, solid fog or glitterdust (non-blinding effect). Other examples are on this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9207.0) list. And it takes 3 feats to become immune to one school of magic. That's a fair investment. Maybe make these fighter bonus feats?

I am even thinking of allowing immunity to all spells and spell-like abilities as a feat, with a prerequisite of being immune to two schools. That might be over doing it. :smallamused:

Thoughts on the two feats listed? Too good? Too weak? Are there better ways of implementing the idea? And how many feats should it take for a character to get School Immunity to all schools of magic?

edit: Made Spell Immunity a fighter bonus feat. Improved the saving throw bonus to apply to everything, not just spells and spell-likes. Changed the type from [General] to [Antimagic] so as to make the following:


Magical Exemption [Antimagic]

Only the most powerful of magics can affect you.

Prerequisite: School Immunity to two schools of magic.

Benefit: You are immune to and unable to cast all spells whose level is less than the number of Antimagic feats you possess. This immunity and inability to cast is described in the School Immunity feat.


Magical Exemption would be the 7th Antimagic feat taken, and would give immunity to spells of level 6 or lower. Three more feats would give protection of up to 9th level spells. Fighters could take 7 fighter bonus feats and 3 general feats to do this by 12th level. They'd essentially be a warrior, but they'd be immune to spells but not to supernatural attacks. Dunno if it is worth it; it is hard to win by playing defense.

It would be easy to make analogues of these for psionics. Substitute "power" for "spell" and "discipline" for "school". Magic/Psionic transparency varies from campaign to campaign, but if it were on then the results would be interchangeable. School Immunity to Divination would be the same as Discipline Immunity to Clairsentience, and so on.

Thunderfist12
2013-07-26, 03:31 PM
I'd say they're good as is. I really want that full magic immunity feat, though...

Maybe using 3 schools as a prerequisite?

(I would use psionic variants of these, too.)

Cheiromancer
2013-07-28, 10:21 AM
After a few day's reflection, I wonder if it is a bit cumbersome. I wanted there to a saving throw bonus (analogous to the +1 bonus to saves vs poison from Poison Immunity) but I thought a +1 bonus to spells was too broad. So I made the bonus apply only to Fort, Will or Reflex saves, depending on what was offered by the spell in question. Which meant that the spell had to offer a saving throw.

However, spell immunity has to mean more than making the save. So I added the benefit of evasion and mettle to the mix. But spell immunity is usually linked to spell resistance - golems and so on have an effective SR of infinity. So that is in there as well. Finally, a favorite house rule of mine is that energy damage ignores spell resistance, so for a character to be immune to the orb line of spells (say) they would have to be immune to the relevant kind of energy.

I thought that non-magical classes should benefit most, so I put in a restriction against casting the spell you were immune to. I was also afraid that the feats giving immunity to one school or to all schools would be too powerful for tier 1 or 2 casters, so a built-in disadvantage would be desirable.

Now I am not sure. An investment of 7 to 10 feats should give something pretty significant, and I am not sure that any immunity to spells is sufficient. Even if they could walk through a wall of force or a solid fog, something which is currently impossible with these feats. Too much immunity could be a bad thing, though. If a bridge is made of a force effect, a character would want to be supported by it; similarly you would want to be able to breathe air even if it were magically generated.

So I would like a cleaner implementation. The immunity to one spell is quite weak - there are just too many spells available. A small bonus (like a stackable +1 to either Reflex, Will or Fort) would be a nice throw-in. Maybe no disadvantage. If a wizard wants to become immune to fireballs so he cast them in enclosed quarters, why not let him? I'm not sure if the spell should be written so as to allow one to walk through a wall of force or not, or ignore an antimagic field. It would be tricky to write, though something about excluding the area or effect of a spell would probably work.

A cleaned up school immunity. Maybe call it "Safe School" and you automatically make your saving throw versus any spell in the school. You'd still be affected by many spells, but it would be a decent benefit provided there weren't too many prerequisites. "School Resistance" could give infinite spell resistance to every school that is Safe; alternatively a feat could give energy resistance to any school that is Safe. I wonder if it would be too much to give infinite SR to a particular school without prerequisites?

Something like Magical Exemption could give all these benefits to schools below a certain spell level. It would be tied to the number of anti-magic feats you possess. It still seems to me that 10 feats is a decent target to get pretty good immunity to all spells. I'm just unsure of the best way to implement the idea.

In short, I want to give immunity to a single spell with a feat, then within a few more feats to give protection versus an entire school, and then to end up with protection against all spells (and spell-like abilities) with a total investment of about 10 feats.

There should be a bias to mundane classes. Making the individual Spell Immunity feats available as fighter bonus feats would be great; then fighters could get broader immunity sooner.

edit: Here's a cleaner version. No bonus to saves, but the protection is a bit stronger. I'll leave out the inability to cast the spells you are immune to; if a spellcaster wants to spend feats on this instead of sanctum spell and arcane thesis, I won't argue.


Focused Spell Immunity [Antimagic]
Benefit: A magical barrier surrounds you and your gear, protecting you from a spell of your choice. The protective barrier moves with you, and excludes the area or effect of the chosen spell from your personal space. However it does not prevent spells from affecting creatures you come into contact with. If your chosen spell is wall of force you can pass through it as though it were not there. You can become immune to instantaneous spells that create a lasting, non-magical effect, but all this does is prevent the initial area of effect from including you. Focused spell immunity is effective against spell-like abilities that duplicate the chosen spell as well as against versions modified by metamagic. You may lower or resume your immunity to a spell as a free action.
Special: You cannot become immune to an antimagic field or similar effect by means of this feat or one which references it. A character can take Focused Spell Immunity multiple times, choosing a different spell each time. A fighter may select Focused Spell Immunity as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Focused School Immunity [Antimagic]
Prerequisite: Focused Spell Immunity to two spells of the same school of magic.
Benefit: Choose two spells of the same school for which you have Focused Spell Immunity. You are immune to all spells of that school, as if by Focused Spell Immunity.
Special: A character can take this feat multiple times, choosing a different school of magic each time.

Absolute Spell Immunity [Antimagic]
Prerequisite: Focused School Immunity to two schools of magic.
Benefit: You are immune to all spells whose level is less than the number of Antimagic feats you possess. This immunity is described in the Focused School Immunity feat.

Better? Or worse? You can't ignore other people's protective spells: e.g. if they put up death ward or mind blank their protection still works, even if you are grappling them. A wall of stone still blocks you, but not solid fog. I decided that it would be abusive to allow a caster to retain personal buffs within an antimagic field, so I wrote in an exception.

Thunderfist12
2013-07-29, 09:15 AM
That seems to work better. I playtested the other feats in my campaign with my new character, and they didn't work as well as I thought they would. I may have to change them out for this.

Cheiromancer
2013-07-29, 10:35 AM
That seems to work better. I playtested the other feats in my campaign with my new character, and they didn't work as well as I thought they would. I may have to change them out for this.

I am really starting to think that immunities are nowhere as good as people think they are. Whether it be construct immunities or undead immunities or, in this case, spell immunity. I've seen spell immunity (infinite SR) priced as the equivalent of 50 feats in a monster builder (approx +5 LA). Giving an improved version for a fifth the cost should be noticeably over-powered... but I don't think it is.

The best I can think of is to be able to evade friendly fire. Mix it up with the bad guys while the conjurer messes up the battlefield. But I don't have the mindset for high-optimization.