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mikeejimbo
2006-12-12, 03:28 PM
So Erfworld is also a game within a comic, but a different one? And judging from some things, one made up by the author?

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-12-12, 03:38 PM
This is not Dungeons and Dragons. Whether this is a good thing remains to be seen.

Toric
2006-12-12, 03:45 PM
Ah, so Erfworld is based off the ol' turn-based strategy. FF tactics, Disgaea, Fire Emblem, etc. You can only move each character so far before you end the turn and it's the enemy's turn. Gotta say it's a pretty impractical way to wage war once it's plopped into a semi-realistic setting like a (non-sprite) comic.

Rex Idiotarum
2006-12-12, 04:01 PM
He could be referring to the turns of the guards as it proceeds to nightfall, i.e. shifts.

Hydro
2006-12-12, 05:53 PM
Awesome.




Hello, I am the sentence that Hydro added only because you apparently can't post anything under 10 characters..?

Narthon the Bold
2006-12-12, 06:38 PM
ugg...

Why did I read it?

Demented
2006-12-12, 06:49 PM
Because it had a Flying-Plush-Ducky!

GDwarf
2006-12-12, 08:14 PM
He could be referring to the turns of the guards as it proceeds to nightfall, i.e. shifts.
No, it's quite clearly a reference to Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, et al.

IronSoldier820
2006-12-12, 08:39 PM
I extremely doubt that. Erfworld seems to use a vocabulary all its own (Dwagons, Findamancers, etc.) and I believe this is just another version of it. I highly doubt that the comic goes about in an FF turn-based fashion. For a comic, that would be hard to pull off in addition to the cutesy talk and unique artwork.

Delcan
2006-12-12, 09:29 PM
Based on the first two comics, I'd say it's taking more from tabletop battle games. *grin* Obviously it's the enemy's turn to move their units.

IronSoldier820
2006-12-12, 09:43 PM
Probably, I'm just in denial here. I really don't want it to end up as a turn-based comic. I mean, its possible but its so far off on the other end of the comics spectrum that it nearly falls off.

Moody the Wise
2006-12-12, 10:13 PM
We've already had 6 pages in which turns never came up. So what if it's not a one-time joke, and the combat in this world happens in turns? It's not like that's going to drive every panel, if we can judge at all by what we've seen already. I for one appreciated the joke.

Demented
2006-12-12, 10:13 PM
Six strips went by with no references to turns. It'll probably get only passing references, not including any jokes in the vein of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html).

IronSoldier820
2006-12-12, 10:14 PM
The problem is, there was no indication if it was a joke or not.

robinmotion
2006-12-12, 11:01 PM
Seems like folks are doing a lot of "What's a ___mancer?" and "Does this mean the Erfworld works in turns?"

I just don't think it's that kinda comic, folks. It doesn't need a complete set of rules, sciences, and definitions. It's a satirical, off-the-wall fantasy story that pokes fun at lots of fantasy conventions (the tradition-kind, not the 'lots of gamers together in one building' kind). Let's roll with it.

Obviously, you can ask these questions if you like, I just don't think you'll get satisfactory answers out of 'em :smallwink:.


Probably, I'm just in denial here. I really don't want it to end up as a turn-based comic. I mean, its possible but its so far off on the other end of the comics spectrum that it nearly falls off.

Moechi_Vill
2006-12-12, 11:15 PM
It could just be Ansom's war doctrine to routinize in turns.
But the way everyone works around it suggests it is a reality.

I'm holding on to not everyone using it, but Ansom's camp seems quite into it. I bet Stanley doesn't care for it; much. It wasn't close to sunset after all, but I don't think he cares much, if at all.

Mmmmyes, it was both a joke and a reality to Erfworld.

Wallyz
2006-12-12, 11:28 PM
They are playing Warlords 3. (Big Heads, Low level heroes getting killed while the high level guys go off questing for artifacts while their economic base gets gutted)

I don't think it will drive the story, just a nod and a wink to a classic fantasy universe architecture, a la OOTs

Aliquid
2006-12-12, 11:37 PM
He could be referring to the turns of the guards as it proceeds to nightfall, i.e. shifts.I'm going to support this theory.

Prince Ansom says "Prepare to end the turn", which implies people control when a turn begins and ends.

Also, Jillian says "I need him next turn", and I get the impression that she is talking about a while in the future. Soon, but not just five minutes or something. More like an hour.

Moody the Wise
2006-12-12, 11:57 PM
"He could be referring to the turns of the guards as it proceeds to nightfall, i.e. shifts."


I'm going to support this theory.

Prince Ansom says "Prepare to end the turn", which implies people control when a turn begins and ends.

Also, Jillian says "I need him next turn", and I get the impression that she is talking about a while in the future. Soon, but not just five minutes or something. More like an hour.

I'm going to oppose this theory on the grounds that if the turn ending referred to a changing of the guard, it simply wouldn't be funny. Call me crazy, but I'm going to err on the side of it being a joke. [Edit]

The joke is that nightfall is coming because he is ending the turn.

Also, with the trumpets blaring - if we're talking realism here, that's an awfully funny way to signal people to sleep. But again, it's a joke - in many turn-based strategy games, there's some cool sound like that when you end a turn.

TinSoldier
2006-12-13, 12:46 AM
In the second panel, Ansom says, "Prepare to end the turn".

In the fourth panel, Jillian replies to Ansom, "Yeah, barely. That gwiffon has two move left." This has to be a reference either to tabletop wargaming or to turn-based computer games.

Aliquid
2006-12-13, 12:58 AM
I'm going to oppose this theory on the grounds that if the turn ending referred to a changing of the guard, it simply wouldn't be funny. Call me crazy, but I'm going to err on the side of it being a joke.Ok, you are crazy ;)

I don't know.... Erfworld isn't a joke comic, it is more of a graphic novel, so I wouldn't err on the side of it being a joke


Erfworld will be more like a graphic novel, with one page appearing at a time but without a guaranteed joke each and every installment. The humor is more likely to spread over the course of an entire scene; some jokes will take several pages to be told.

Moechi_Vill
2006-12-13, 03:34 AM
They are playing Warlords 3. (Big Heads, Low level heroes getting killed while the high level guys go off questing for artifacts while their economic base gets gutted)

I don't think it will drive the story, just a nod and a wink to a classic fantasy universe architecture, a la OOTs

Myeees, but with more of the admiration. Erfworld lauds it, and so does OOtS but I remember OOtS bashing Harry Potter.

The events unfolding are definitely going to go by plot and realism, but we might see some background events directly impinged upon by the rules set.

Ah yes, and the turn is definitely guiding the sun to set and the blaring of the music is a signal to the equivocal events that dusk has fallen and the turn is over.

Maurog
2006-12-13, 04:36 AM
The setting looks more similar to Heroes to me than any other game. Different parties have different castles and units, each one easily identified by just looking at it. There are the "bad guys", the "good guys" and some "magic kingdom" which is probably like the faerie castle in Heroes. But of course, people should just enjoy the comic instead of nailing down whether it's a game and what the rules are.

Moody the Wise
2006-12-13, 12:02 PM
Ok, you are crazy ;)

I don't know.... Erfworld isn't a joke comic, it is more of a graphic novel, so I wouldn't err on the side of it being a joke

Well, just because it's "more of a graphic novel" doesn't mean it can't have jokes. The two are not mutually exclusive. And I quote:




... As people have pointed out in these threads, I'm doing all kinds of humor, from highly subtle to completely gross. Some are direct allusions, some are oblique references, some are synthetic, some are foreshadowing, some are character-driven. Most are original to the comic, and a lot of those are completely out of left field. That's really all the explanation I can give you ...



So I maintain my position that it's a joke. Even if it wasn't intended to be so, even if it was deathly serious, it's still funny, so it's a joke.

And for the people who have been saying that it's pretty perfect as a reference to Warlords, I wholeheartedly agree.

Jorkens
2006-12-13, 12:09 PM
"He could be referring to the turns of the guards as it proceeds to nightfall, i.e. shifts."



I'm going to oppose this theory on the grounds that if the turn ending referred to a changing of the guard, it simply wouldn't be funny. Call me crazy, but I'm going to err on the side of it being a joke. [Edit]

The joke is that nightfall is coming because he is ending the turn.

Also, with the trumpets blaring - if we're talking realism here, that's an awfully funny way to signal people to sleep. But again, it's a joke - in many turn-based strategy games, there's some cool sound like that when you end a turn.
Yes, I think I'm with you on this one. It looks like some sort of joke (not neccessarily a laugh-out-loud joke but another comic / absurd feature of the world) contrasting the way that dividing a game up into turns would look to the characters in the game with the familiar version of how it looks to the players playing it.

Grey Knight
2006-12-13, 12:23 PM
There are plenty of games like this; you move whatever units you will, then declare your turn over, then your opponents take their turn.

OotS manages to deal with turn-based combat (albeit on an individual level rather than the whole army) just fine, so I expect Erfworld to do just fine.

foil_fedora
2006-12-13, 03:29 PM
Didn't much care about the 'turns' thing one way or the other, just assumed it was a classic wargaming reference... The thing that jumped out at me was Wilma Flintstone's cameo as the gwiffon groom. Nice to see that the old Hanna Barbera toons are getting some work (besides the occasional guest shot on Harvey Birdman). :-)

Harr
2006-12-13, 03:33 PM
Yeah it's pretty clear that a turn-based fantasy strategy game is what it is... which kind of endears it to me a bit (going from no-frickin-way to Ill-give-it-a-chance-maybe) since I'm a big fan of that type of game.

Went back to the first page and read it all again with this perspective, and the narrative and quirks of the world fall in pretty much perfectly with Master of Magic, Warlords, Heroes of Might and Magic, Age of Wonders, or any of those wonderful games.

It actually makes Erfworld a nice complement to OOTS instead of a randomly thrown-in additional comic which is what I thought it was.

I'm worried about this coyness from the writer and artist, though. With OOTS, you knew it was D&D from the very first page. That's what hooked you in. The comic was upfront and honest about what it was. I can't even count the times I've hooked a gamer friend on OOTS just by sending them the link to the first comic and having them read that comic and only that comic.

Erfworld seems to take a different tactic with this ambiguous maybe-it-is/maybe-it-isn't/why-don't-you-guess/wait-and-find-out thing that it's doing, and I can't help but think it will be to its detriment in the end. I for one would for sure have had a MUCH more positive first impression, had I known this from the beginning.

Grey Knight
2006-12-13, 04:24 PM
I'm worried about this coyness from the writer and artist, though. With OOTS, you knew it was D&D from the very first page. That's what hooked you in. The comic was upfront and honest about what it was. I can't even count the times I've hooked a gamer friend on OOTS just by sending them the link to the first comic and having them read that comic and only that comic.

ISTR that OotS was originally designed as a series of standalone strips, so they had to have self-contained jokes (I think Rich even said that some of the early ones got reordered). Erfworld is written as more of a story-oriented one from the beginning, so it doesn't have to beat you around the head with the facts of its reality as much. I think it'll do well.

Harr
2006-12-13, 05:55 PM
It has absolutely nothing to with whether Erfworld is story-based or gag-based.

The 'story-oriented' explanation that gets trotted out every 3 seconds by everyone and their grandma (and that we were all very much aware of since the second the giant wrote up the first news update about Erfworld like a month ago) doesn't change the fact that new readers WILL make up their minds about a comic in the first few strips.

When people know what they're going to get into, they form a positive opinion and a commitment to follow up much more easily than otherwise.

What I'm saying is, it would have cost nothing to the giant to simply add to his news post 'oh and by the way, in the way that OOTS is set in a roleplaying game Erfworld will be set in a turn-based fantasy strategy game.' That way people would have known from the start what it was about and impressions would be more accurate.

What on earth does that have to do with whether a comic is more gag based or story based? Nothing.

Erfworlf appears to be counting on using ambiguity about the world to keep people guessing and talking and therefore engaged in the story, I'm saying it's more likely to annoy new readers than anything else, in the long run. I may be wrong, of course.

Aliquid
2006-12-13, 07:41 PM
It has absolutely nothing to with whether Erfworld is story-based or gag-based.You are missing the point. The argument was if the phrase "turn" used in the text of the story is referring to a "turn" in a turn based game, or if it was for something else (e.g. a shift for the guards).

The possibility of the phrase "turn" being a "gag", was part of an argument.


What I'm saying is, it would have cost nothing to the giant to simply add to his news post 'oh and by the way, in the way that OOTS is set in a roleplaying game Erfworld will be set in a turn-based fantasy strategy game.' That way people would have known from the start what it was about and impressions would be more accurate.Maybe you should think of it as just a story. When you watch "Star Wars", do you need to know how the world works for you to enjoy it? Do you need a codified description of how the force "works" before you can accept it?

I personally don't care what type of game Erfworld is set in.

GDwarf
2006-12-13, 07:46 PM
I, personally, love how Erfworld doesn't hold your hand and explain every facet of the world. I find fantasy books/games that do that to be incredibly tedious. It can be quite fun to find out about the world as you play the game/read the book.

Heck, OotS started off explaining nothing about the world. Now, you can assume quite a bit of it because the comic is based on DnD. However, the point still stands that people aren't complaining about Rich doing it, but they're claiming that it ruins Erfworld. Can you say double standard?

mikeejimbo
2006-12-13, 08:08 PM
However, the point still stands that people aren't complaining about Rich doing it, but they're claiming that it ruins Erfworld. Can you say double standard?

What? Where did I say it ruined it? I never said anything of the sort, I just thought it was curious.

Aliquid
2006-12-14, 06:28 PM
Well page 8 certainly suggests that a "turn" is a day.

Harr
2006-12-14, 06:59 PM
Heck, OotS started off explaining nothing about the world. Now, you can assume quite a bit of it because the comic is based on DnD. However, the point still stands that people aren't complaining about Rich doing it, but they're claiming that it ruins Erfworld. Can you say double standard?

You're joking, right.

Literal to-the-letter quote from OOTS #1: "I believe we are being converted to the 3.5 edition."

Wow, yeah, that's some serious ambiguity there... I wonder what game or world this comic could possibly be taking place in. Good thing Rich isn't just coming out and saying it or anything! LOL

Back on topic, Doombats are a playable unit in both Master of Magic and Age of Wonders, so unless they're prevalent in some other medium I'm not familiar with, they're likely a reference / confirmation that we're dealing with a game of that type.

Jorkens
2006-12-14, 07:15 PM
You're joking, right.

Literal to-the-letter quote from OOTS #1: "I believe we are being converted to the 3.5 edition."

Wow, yeah, that's some serious ambiguity there... I wonder what game or world this comic could possibly be taking place in. Good thing Rich isn't just coming out and saying it or anything! LOL
Yeah, to be fair I think GDwarf's first paragraph was a lot more OTM than the second. If anything, OotS is exceptional in already having a well defined world that you know about from the off.

A much better comparison would be something like HP Lovecraft. If his first book had started off with a clear and concise outline of precisely how the cthuhlu mythos worked along with a complete timeline, then the rest of the books would have been really tedious. Part of the fun is gradually having the details of the setting explained and another part is dealing with a story set against a backdrop that you don't fully understand. Personally I don't see much point in creating a fantastic setting if you then immediately make it as mundane and familiar as the real world...

Harr
2006-12-14, 07:21 PM
Maybe you should think of it as just a story. When you watch "Star Wars", do you need to know how the world works for you to enjoy it? Do you need a codified description of how the force "works" before you can accept it?

That's a false analogy, since Star Wars was not in and of itself based on another pre-existing game or world.

An apt analogy would be, say, a friend of yours which gives you a story to read, that he wrote himself. You read it and halfway through you realize, thanks to little hints and names that he drips in the story, that it's set in the Star Wars universe.

Your friend then proceeds to give his story to everyone in your D&D gaming group, even the Trekkies who have absolutely no interest or may even dislike Star Wars, but without saying anything about the setting, in hopes that by keeping it unknown, he can get them to read it anyway. Inevitably some people enjoy the Star Wars fanfic, and others are irritated that they were not warned about the setting and thus wasted time on something they knew they wouldn't have liked from the beginning. That would be a comparison that fits.

Don't get me wrong now, I LOOOVE turn based fantasy strategy games, and I LOVE that Erfworld is based on them. Heck, I'm playing HOMM 5 right now. I've even made my peace with the baby-talk and the weird hammer-thing because of it. I'm just saying a better decision might have been to be straight with that from the get-go. Again, I could be wrong. We'll see.

Jorkens
2006-12-14, 08:01 PM
That's a false analogy, since Star Wars was not in and of itself based on another pre-existing game or world.

FWIW Erfworld isn't set within a pre-existing game or world either - unless there's some game beyond the realms of google that involves dwagons and croakamancers. It just seems to be set within (or to have elements of or a combat system based on) a generic or made up turn based strategy game. I don't know, maybe you're right and saying so immediately would have made sense. It doesn't bother me much.

Vance_Nevada
2006-12-15, 06:21 AM
Look, let's face it: People who don't know what DnD is won't be reading OotS anyway. You need to understand at least vaguely the system to get many of the jokes. If you don't know what a d20 is, how can you know why getting a Natural 20 is a good thing for Haley? After all, 20 out of 100 isn't much.

But it's pretty obvious right from the get-go: If you don't understand it, you won't keep reading. Fair enough - I don't seek out WoW jokes, but I'm sure they'd amuse plenty of people who play it and get the system.

Erfworld doesn't seem to have a recognisable system, yet is clearly still system based: hence why it makes no sense. Is 52 Move a little? A lot? A large enough amount that our eyes should goggle in sheer awe, or does everything go 52 move? Is 1 turn a day? A long or short time within the system? Why is it fine to wait for 2 turns, but not for 4 turns, for the Elves to show up?

Jorkens
2006-12-15, 07:04 AM
Look, let's face it: People who don't know what DnD is won't be reading OotS anyway. You need to understand at least vaguely the system to get many of the jokes. If you don't know what a d20 is, how can you know why getting a Natural 20 is a good thing for Haley? After all, 20 out of 100 isn't much.

But it's pretty obvious right from the get-go: If you don't understand it, you won't keep reading. Fair enough - I don't seek out WoW jokes, but I'm sure they'd amuse plenty of people who play it and get the system.

Erfworld doesn't seem to have a recognisable system, yet is clearly still system based: hence why it makes no sense. Is 52 Move a little? A lot? A large enough amount that our eyes should goggle in sheer awe, or does everything go 52 move? Is 1 turn a day? A long or short time within the system? Why is it fine to wait for 2 turns, but not for 4 turns, for the Elves to show up?
Pretty much all of this is fairly obvious from context (or seems likely to become obvious from context as the terms are used a bit more) if you just think about it rather than expecting everything to be spoonfed. 52 move is pretty speedy: we know already that orlies have eight move less than that and doombats only have 22 and that 52 is probably the fastest that Ansom's got. It looks like a turn is about a day. Two turns is as long as Ansom's willing to wait because that's how long it'll take him to have most of his forces together. We know that a turn is a decent amount of time because he's not willing to wait another two turns for the tardy elves.

And even if you don't understand stuff that precisely right now, surely you can figure out enough to follow the story and the characters? You don't need to know whether 52 move is the fastest thing on Erf or just the fastest thing available at the time to see that Jillian's planning a reconnaisance mission and Ansom doesn't want to send her and follow the argument based on that? And realise that Ansom's marshalling assembled troops from various armies for an attack on Gobwin Nob.

If you don't like the story, the jokes or the art then that's a personal preference, but getting annoyed by the fact that you can't look up everything detail of the (fantasy) world in a sourcebook seems to be missing the point somehow.

Fronko
2006-12-15, 07:19 AM
Me likes turn-based strategy. Me likes Erfworld.

Me hungry.

On a more sophisticated sidenote:
not knowing the "rules" this is based on really makes this interesting for me. You know, I played a number of turn-based games and it never occurred to me to consider it from the perspective of the units I moved. That alone is a clever view which is completely different from what I have gotten to know, which makes this comic well worth reading as I can expect other new things (hopefully).

And yes, I DO believe, that a movement of 52 is pretty fast.

jami
2006-12-15, 08:47 AM
There is a game system at works here on Erfworld. The rules will make themselves more apparent through content. We don't want to hand hold you guys every step of the way so there's no manual. We will probably release a lot of supplemental material as we go along (if you check on the arts and crafts board, I've already made some templates for Erfworld style avatars).

But yes, combat on Erfworld is grounded in a turn-based system that Rob has created.

TinSoldier
2006-12-15, 11:53 PM
Well, then, even though I haven't played and am not familiar with very many turn-based games I still look forward to more comics.

And maybe even a game based on Rob's rules!

Wallyz
2006-12-16, 12:44 AM
It is Warlords. A Griffon has naturally occuring 26 movement (in Warlords 2), and with a hero with a speed bonus, it doubles to 52. bats have 22 natural movement, and it is a Baaad idea to try to do long range heavy recon with bats and a hero.

I am familiar with TBS games, and very familiar with this particular one.

Whether the imitation was intentional; or not, Rob has played Warlords 2. A lot.

GDwarf
2006-12-16, 06:23 PM
Pretty much all of this is fairly obvious from context (or seems likely to become obvious from context as the terms are used a bit more) if you just think about it rather than expecting everything to be spoonfed. 52 move is pretty speedy: we know already that orlies have eight move less than that and doombats only have 22 and that 52 is probably the fastest that Ansom's got. It looks like a turn is about a day. Two turns is as long as Ansom's willing to wait because that's how long it'll take him to have most of his forces together. We know that a turn is a decent amount of time because he's not willing to wait another two turns for the tardy elves.

And even if you don't understand stuff that precisely right now, surely you can figure out enough to follow the story and the characters? You don't need to know whether 52 move is the fastest thing on Erf or just the fastest thing available at the time to see that Jillian's planning a reconnaisance mission and Ansom doesn't want to send her and follow the argument based on that? And realise that Ansom's marshalling assembled troops from various armies for an attack on Gobwin Nob.

If you don't like the story, the jokes or the art then that's a personal preference, but getting annoyed by the fact that you can't look up everything detail of the (fantasy) world in a sourcebook seems to be missing the point somehow.
Exactly, I haven't been confused by anything in Erfworld yet, because the context tells you everything you need to immediately know. I'm curious about many things, but none of them are key to the plot, so I feel free to speculate about them.

Two move left, is that a lot or a little? Well, considering that it was said that it has "only" two move left, and that the trip was barely made, it's obviously not very much.


I also still stand by my statement that OoTS was just as bad when it came to not giving you info. Pretty much the only thing you learn until the defeat of Xykon is that it's based on DnD, that Xykon killed Roy's father, and what the characters are like. You know nothing about the world, is it a generic DnD one? Does it all take place on giant flying squid? You have no idea. Erfworld, if anything, gives you more information about the world, with slightly less about the day-to-day actions of the characters.

RandomNPC
2006-12-16, 08:07 PM
maybe they arent in combat, maybe it's a war game and to give each side time to think "what would my team do in real combat" they take turns. so a new commander isn't overwhelmed by a zergling rush two minuets in game. sorry its the first comparison i could think of.

Harr
2006-12-17, 10:21 AM
I also still stand by my statement that OoTS was just as bad when it came to not giving you info. Pretty much the only thing you learn until the defeat of Xykon is that it's based on DnD, that Xykon killed Roy's father, and what the characters are like. You know nothing about the world, is it a generic DnD one? Does it all take place on giant flying squid? You have no idea. Erfworld, if anything, gives you more information about the world, with slightly less about the day-to-day actions of the characters.



Well, clearly in this conversation, for you the word "world" = "setting", while for me "world" = "game mechanics".

So we're just talking about entirely different things, and we do know perfectly well what the other is trying to get across, so we can either keep talking circles around each other or agree to disagree and move on.

Harr
2006-12-17, 10:26 AM
And even if you don't understand stuff that precisely right now, surely you can figure out enough to follow the story and the characters? You don't need to know whether 52 move is the fastest thing on Erf or just the fastest thing available at the time to see that Jillian's planning a reconnaisance mission and Ansom doesn't want to send her and follow the argument based on that? And realise that Ansom's marshalling assembled troops from various armies for an attack on Gobwin Nob.

If you don't like the story, the jokes or the art then that's a personal preference, but getting annoyed by the fact that you can't look up everything detail of the (fantasy) world in a sourcebook seems to be missing the point somehow.


You know, I agree totally with your first paragraph. And yet the fact remains that some people will get annoyed by precisely that, and they will stop reading, and it's not for you or anyone to tell them not to. People are free to decide what annoys them at their own whim, without being constricted to what sounds logical to you or what makes you feel better.

Vance_Nevada
2006-12-17, 03:03 PM
Pretty much all of this is fairly obvious from context (or seems likely to become obvious from context as the terms are used a bit more) if you just think about it rather than expecting everything to be spoonfed.

That's more thinking than I want to do to read a webcomic, and Erfworld hasn't thus far proved so memorable that I'd bother. But clearly, this isn't designed for people like me any more than WoW comics are designed for me. I don't get the system, and I don't really have any incentive to bother, so I think I'll leave it be. Enjoy.

Jorkens
2006-12-17, 08:32 PM
You know, I agree totally with your first paragraph. And yet the fact remains that some people will get annoyed by precisely that, and they will stop reading, and it's not for you or anyone to tell them not to. People are free to decide what annoys them at their own whim, without being constricted to what sounds logical to you or what makes you feel better.
Yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, if someone can't stomach the shade of green that's used for the trees then I can't just tell them to stop complaining and ignore it or something. I think it's fair to say 'hey you might (or might not) really enjoy it if you concentrated on these things (characters, art, humour, story) and tried not to worry about those things (exactly how the combat system works) which probably won't matter' though. Which is probably how I should have put it...

Gygaxphobia
2006-12-19, 10:02 AM
It is Warlords. A Griffon has naturally occuring 26 movement (in Warlords 2), and with a hero with a speed bonus, it doubles to 52. bats have 22 natural movement, and it is a Baaad idea to try to do long range heavy recon with bats and a hero.

I am familiar with TBS games, and very familiar with this particular one.

Whether the imitation was intentional; or not, Rob has played Warlords 2. A lot.

Ah, ok. Nice to know but makes very little difference unless there is going to be a lot of W2 jokes.
I don't like to be completely excluded by in-jokes (like recent strips of OOTS by FF) but one or two doesn't hurt.

ObadiahtheSlim
2006-12-19, 12:32 PM
My take is that the story is based around a Turn Based Strat as opposed to OttS being based on D20.

Glooble Glistencrist
2006-12-19, 03:46 PM
They are playing Warlords 3. (Big Heads, Low level heroes getting killed while the high level guys go off questing for artifacts while their economic base gets gutted)


That was my thought exactly. I loved that game. Glad someone else remembers it - All my friends are like "what?"

Wallyz
2006-12-19, 11:56 PM
Please Note everybody- Hero plus "Seven Heavies" equals full eight stack for Warlords. Just sayin'

Krytha
2006-12-20, 03:47 AM
I think turn must mean a different chronological unit. Prince Ansom had the ability to END the turn, so if it were a day, it would imply that he had power over such a thing. Could it be possible that they also have knowledge of the game-world rules and apply them? See - Haley prior to assaulting the bandit camp also "ended the turn".

So basically, do the characters in the Elfworld have knowledge of the rules which govern their existence (obviously they do) and do they have control over them (they must)

Gygaxphobia
2006-12-20, 08:36 AM
well they know how much Move (as a stat) their creatures have, and how different compositions will affect the unit's overall Move score.

Interesting that the characters have control over end of turn, you would think that there would be one player for each side in a turn based strategy game. The question is, is there actually a player behind each character? (e.g. as there appears to be in each OOTS character)

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-12-25, 08:40 AM
well they know how much Move (as a stat) their creatures have, and how different compositions will affect the unit's overall Move score.

Interesting that the characters have control over end of turn, you would think that there would be one player for each side in a turn based strategy game. The question is, is there actually a player behind each character? (e.g. as there appears to be in each OOTS character)

I see no evidence for that. In fact, all of the OotS characters act fairly coherent in their own roles, like how Haley is terribly angsty the first time she tries to tell Elan she loves him.
Got any good examples?

Madalin
2007-01-03, 02:54 PM
Ah, I remember playing warlords 2 when I was little.
Like, really little. 7 or 8 or something. Wow, I'm surprised I can remember it 5ish years later. Actually, I'm surprised I understood anything of it back then. But I did, at least somewhat.
I remember very little though. I don't have it anymore. :(

SmartAlec
2007-01-03, 03:28 PM
well they know how much Move (as a stat) their creatures have, and how different compositions will affect the unit's overall Move score.

Interesting that the characters have control over end of turn, you would think that there would be one player for each side in a turn based strategy game. The question is, is there actually a player behind each character? (e.g. as there appears to be in each OOTS character)

Not sure if there are any 'players' behind the OOTS.

They're familiar with the meta-game behind the world they live in, is all. Elan knows the rules of Theatrical convention, Roy has a good head for calculating damage, Belkar knows that what you see and hear in the world he lives in is governed by skill checks.

To them, these things are as real and natural as gravity.

Same as the Erfworld crew. They live in a turn-based strategy world, so they act accordingly.

Azrael
2007-01-04, 12:36 PM
Context suggests that a turn is a day -- so until we see otherwise, run with it. What harm can come of making that assumption? Plus, making camp at the end of a isn't a hard sell for "preparing for the end of turn".

Having different creatures with 52 move vs. 22 move is enough context to understand they are talking about varying movement rates -- not even in a necessarily game mechanic kind of way. Calvary moves faster than infantry etc etc.

Context is everything in *any* form of literature.

(Now, the similarities to the Warlords stack/movement/turn is at this point intriquing but not 100% definite. Nor, honestly, does this knowledge improve the comic reading experience any.)

Anyhow, I guess my point is: Read the damn comic. Read, don't just look and expect that the graphic format will reveal everything to you. You wouldn't watch TV on mute and expect to understand everything either. Spend less time convincing yourself that you can't understand it because you lack an Erfworld PHB sitting in front of you. (It's like giving up on a novel 14 pages in because you can't buy the cliffnotes.)

Now, if you don't want to understand it, or spend the (varying individually) time necessary to figure out what's going on, that's fine too.