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Brickwall
2006-12-12, 03:34 PM
Okay, I can't be the only one wondering why everything is spelled with w's instead of r's. "Gobwin", "gwiffon", "dwagon", etc. Truthfully, I think it's kind of annoying to read, becuase most people associate that with trying to be cute, and it doesn't at all seem to blend with the comic.

But obviously, our writer and author have their own thoughts on this. What are yours?

WoDHells
2006-12-12, 03:36 PM
Bwhat are you twalking about? I bweally don't get it.

TinSoldier
2006-12-12, 03:39 PM
You didn't put in an option for "slightly annoying but mostly indifferent."

Khantalas
2006-12-12, 03:45 PM
Well, not bettew than Thog, but that's the only thing that made me hesitate befowe choosing that option. :smallbiggrin:

Brickwall
2006-12-12, 03:58 PM
All results are intended to be extreme. If you lean slightly in one way or th eother, choose that way. If you could honestly care less, put the third option.

MrNexx
2006-12-12, 04:01 PM
I think it would sound far better than it reads.

pestilenceawaits
2006-12-12, 04:11 PM
I find that the most irritating thing about the comic I like just about everything else. I think it bugs me because I know some people that talk to there 3 year old kid that way. my skin crawls just thinking about it.

Calmypal
2006-12-12, 04:28 PM
I think it's wonderful, just renaming all the common monsters to have w's where r's should be and not mention it at all. Brilliant. :smallbiggrin:

Erloas
2006-12-12, 04:35 PM
That in-and-of-itself is just about enough to put me off the comic. Although we don't have a lot of direction yet with the comic I'm seeing it either heading to a really good place or a really bad place in a month of comics. I think this is going to be a hit or miss comic in that people are either going to really like it or really dislike it, I don't see a lot of middleground with the comic as it looks now.

I don't yet see how some of the "cute" wording, such as the w's, fit in with the look and apparent action the comic is going to have. The intent of the wording also doesn't seem to fit with the use of the wording. That might change with time, but that is how I see it this early into it.

Demented
2006-12-12, 06:53 PM
I have no objection to it. They just make so much sense to me that, for the most part, I don't even see them. Much like Durkon's accent. "Transcribe my what, now?"

Not to mention I love the idea of cute things in a cute world hacking eachother into graphic bloody kibble.
It just makes sense.

Arian
2006-12-12, 07:48 PM
I interpret them as a signal that these things are sort of like dragons, goblins, griffons etc, except... not.

So for the most part we can consider them to be things-with-Rs (filling similar roles?) but if they do something wildly non-stereotypical, and someone says, "Hey, a dragon would never do that!" there's the reply, "This is not a dragon."

Fo Shizzle
2006-12-12, 11:47 PM
The w's don't really bother me, they just seem odd. If they weren't there I probably wouldn't think any different of the comic. (But then again it's something that makes Erfworld unique.)

mikeejimbo
2006-12-13, 12:52 AM
I interpret them as a signal that these things are sort of like dragons, goblins, griffons etc, except... not.

So for the most part we can consider them to be things-with-Rs (filling similar roles?) but if they do something wildly non-stereotypical, and someone says, "Hey, a dragon would never do that!" there's the reply, "This is not a dragon."

They're not dragons, goblins, and griffons, they're dwagons, gobwins and gwiffons. There's no such things as dragons, goblins and griffons, in fact.

So yes, you voice my thoughts quite well.

ref
2006-12-13, 06:02 AM
Fwee Bwian! hehe... Well, it's a different world, with different fauna. That's all.

MrNexx
2006-12-13, 09:15 AM
A slightly different thought (though I like the they're-not-dragons-they're-dwagons thought):

I was thinking about the proportions of the people in the comic we've seen. In a way, they come off as somewhat child-like (or even Chibi) in proportion, appearance, and behavior. Perhaps the w's are not a sign of "cutesy", but childishness... which would certainly be borne out by Stanely.

Jorkens
2006-12-13, 09:29 AM
A slightly different thought (though I like the they're-not-dragons-they're-dwagons thought):

I was thinking about the proportions of the people in the comic we've seen. In a way, they come off as somewhat child-like (or even Chibi) in proportion, appearance, and behavior. Perhaps the w's are not a sign of "cutesy", but childishness... which would certainly be borne out by Stanely.
They're in the narration, too, though. And none of the character's dialogue seems particularly childish apart from the w's. Even Stanley's - "Oh, Wanda. Don't sell yourself short. You're a great caster. You just have no head for finance. The "support plan" is how they get you." To me that sounds like an adult who's not as smart as he thinks he is, not a three year old who can't pronounce words properly. Note also that it's only names of creatures that have the w's in too - if people were talking like children you'd expect words like 'literally' or 'discovery' or 'treasury' to get mangled, too.

IMO the big heads are just an aspect of the style - bigger heads allow for clearer expressions, for starters.

SteveMB
2006-12-13, 10:05 AM
They're in the narration, too, though. And none of the character's dialogue seems particularly childish apart from the w's. Even Stanley's - "Oh, Wanda. Don't sell yourself short. You're a great caster. You just have no head for finance. The "support plan" is how they get you." To me that sounds like an adult who's not as smart as he thinks he is, not a three year old who can't pronounce words properly.

True -- that reminded me of Dilbert's pointy-haired boss more than anything else.

Jorkens
2006-12-13, 10:22 AM
Come to think of it, Stanley's history of promoting 'pretty boys' to Warlord could be a bit disturbing if he's meant to be a kid, too...

Fenix
2006-12-13, 11:45 AM
I hawe a wewy good fwiend in Wome named Biggus Dickus.

Flak_Razorwill
2006-12-13, 11:54 AM
I mentally replace the w with an r. Simple. It doesn't slow my reading at all.

Anyways, I just see the w as a kind of...how do you put it...regional dialect? It's just this universe. Badass settings have featured extensive cuteness before. Explain GIR's role as a enforcer robot who answers to an alien infiltrator working for an empire that commits genocide daily. If anything, his piggies. were even more prominent that the w here.

Brickwall
2006-12-13, 04:45 PM
I'd certainly like our author and artist to come here and give their reasoning for all the W's. But, as it seems, they have not decided to come here. Maybe all will be revealed in time. Or maybe not.

pclips
2006-12-13, 05:09 PM
I'd certainly like our author and artist to come here and give their reasoning for all the W's. But, as it seems, they have not decided to come here. Maybe all will be revealed in time. Or maybe not.

All will be revealed in time, or at least enough to judge the comic for what it is. Love it, hate it, shrug it off...they're all perfectly valid reactions right now. You guys don't have a lot to go on yet. What small portion there is is getting hyperanalyzed and nibbled to death. We expect a bumpy ride for a while. We hope to win back a lot of the instant critics later on.

But explanations, clarifications, rebuttals...you won't see those until after the story has run its course.

Relax, all. It will unfold. Think of it as a quirky series of commercials running during your favorite show. Check it on every update, or once a month, but don't be surprised if it draws you in eventually.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-13, 05:13 PM
so far ive treated the w's as i treat V's gender. if the author decides to reveal why/what, then awesome. otherwise its just a continuing gag that makes the story somewhat unique. plus, did you see the creature in the second to last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0006.html). that could not, in good conscience, be called a dragon, only dwagon would fit that creature.

EDIT: simu-posted by the man himself

mikeejimbo
2006-12-13, 08:09 PM
The question isn't why do they use W's, it's why do we use R's?

jami
2006-12-13, 08:30 PM
The question isn't why do they use W's, it's why do we use R's?

Indeed! :biggrin:

roadkiller
2006-12-13, 08:49 PM
Whenever I see the Erfworld comics, I just think of children playing a war game that they don't fully understand. The entire thing has an infantile feel, like a child would expect a leader to be a "pretty boy," if only because all of the great leaders in stories that they get read to them.

If you'll notice, Wanda seems to be proportioned at least closer to normal and seems far more matured than the rest of the characters. I suspect one of the biggest reasons her head doesn't fit entirely correctly is merely because it would not fit with the rest of the comic.

I read the comic as it is without slowing donw, "W"s and all. It just adds another layer to the idea of the infancy of the comic.

mikeejimbo
2006-12-13, 09:43 PM
This whole discussion reminds me of something that happened in a Dragonlance campaign...

Well, it started when, in another campaign, a dwarf bred with an orc and made a dorc. So I was playing a dwarf and was told about the horrors of crossbreeding, but I said I wanted to breed with a draconian so I could make, you guessed it: The dwaconian.

Turcano
2006-12-13, 10:29 PM
"Youw fathew was a Woman?"
"No, a ROMAN." (*smack*)

Jorkens
2006-12-13, 10:37 PM
Whenever I see the Erfworld comics, I just think of children playing a war game that they don't fully understand. The entire thing has an infantile feel, like a child would expect a leader to be a "pretty boy," if only because all of the great leaders in stories that they get read to them.
Sorry to sound like a stuck record here, but do you really think the dialogue sounds childlike? If anything it strikes me as being comparatively worldly and cynical for fantasy...

Brickwall
2006-12-13, 10:46 PM
It sounds stupid! It sounds like somebody with a speech impediment dictated the comic! Not something I like to read.

kriklaf
2006-12-14, 01:22 AM
Since the authors say there's a reason, I'll grudgingly give them the benefit of the doubt and believe they're doing it for a purpose, but the "childlike aspect" of the comic (or however it's put in the survey) is by far the biggest turn-off for me. Explain it away however you like--a dwagon is a different creature than a dragon--I still hear it read in a little kid voice (Mommy, I scared of the dwagon!), which is jarring in the extreme. Renaming creatures in an attempt to change a reader's preconceptions about a common fantasy device is one thing, but substituting a word which carries its own preconceptions (and transcriptions of common childhood mispronounciations definitely qualifies in my book) just points a reader's subconscious expectations in another direction.

mikeejimbo
2006-12-14, 01:28 AM
One thing I like though, is trying to take preconceived notions and changing them. Forcing myself to think "Well yes, that's what I usually think, but what if it didn't work that way?"

Hexa_Regina
2006-12-14, 02:12 AM
I think the writers are trying to balance out the serious aspects of the plot with a hefty dose of childish silliness. Much like the way Calvin in the old Calvin and Hobbes strips always talked like an adult about childish things, the Erfworld characters talk somewhat childishly about serious things in their setting.

Mike_Lemmer
2006-12-14, 03:29 AM
It weminds me of Elmah Fudd.

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-12-14, 03:56 AM
Dweath likes them.

But they do add to the childlike demeanor of the comic, I find it very amusing.

Fat Daddy
2006-12-14, 07:36 AM
The 'cutesy' speak really turns me off the comic. I have read the first 7 but will be hard pressed to continue.

Learnedguy
2006-12-14, 11:22 AM
it's to avoid copyright infrigment <.<?

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-14, 11:37 AM
I would like to point out that not all of the r's are w's. there are only 4 w's for r's in the seven strips, 64 panels, 96 speech bubbles and 757 words of dialogue and narration (give or take a dozen or so). So im not sure what all the fuss is about.

pclips
2006-12-14, 02:09 PM
I would like to point out that not all of the r's are w's. there are only 4 w's for r's in the seven strips, 64 panels, 96 speech bubbles and 757 words of dialogue and narration (give or take a dozen or so). So im not sure what all the fuss is about.

*snrk* OT... At least, with all the complainy noises about how little comic there is yet, someone noticed how much work went into lettering those mere seven pages. (I do the lettering. It's the final part of the writing process, as I see it.)

I'm glad it looks easy and all, but I kind of feel like saying, "Quick! Open a drawing program and make 96 individual vector objects to be speech balloons, letter them from this script, evaluate them for visual balance, the flow in the reader's mind, and how much they block up the art. Oh, and throw in a dozen sound effects with graphical text effects. See if you can do 7 pages in under 25 hours or so." :smalltongue:

Fat Daddy
2006-12-14, 02:15 PM
I keep expecting Elmer Fudd to make a cameo..."Shhhh. Be vewy vewy quiet...I'm hunting dwagons. Hehehehehe."

Jacklu
2006-12-14, 02:28 PM
Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. The addition of Ws to the occasional word is hardly what I would call earth shattering. I think the Ws give the comic a certain charm and I'm farely certian that if anyone knows what their doing, Elvis does. So for now I'll enjoy the comic purely for what it is and trust that if Rob has put the Ws in then they're there for a reason... unless he just likes watching people squirm from the horrors of dwagons and spidews. :tongue:

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-14, 03:56 PM
*snrk* OT... At least, with all the complainy noises about how little comic there is yet, someone noticed how much work went into lettering those mere seven pages. (I do the lettering. It's the final part of the writing process, as I see it.)

I'm glad it looks easy and all, but I kind of feel like saying, "Quick! Open a drawing program and make 96 individual vector objects to be speech balloons, letter them from this script, evaluate them for visual balance, the flow in the reader's mind, and how much they block up the art. Oh, and throw in a dozen sound effects with graphical text effects. See if you can do 7 pages in under 25 hours or so." :smalltongue:

im glad that i could amuse you so. :smallbiggrin:
btw, i really like the comic. im big into graphic novels, especially those with a manga flair, so the art piqued my interest, then the plot (inasmuch as it has been developed in so short a time) has kept me interested. keep up the good work!

Brickwall
2006-12-14, 05:48 PM
Look, I love the comic, but I really just hate seeing those W's. It doesn't put me off the comic, it just puts me off. And an annoyed Brickwall tortures the players in the games he GMs.

ShneekeyTheLost
2006-12-15, 03:24 AM
The question isn't why do they use W's, it's why do we use R's?

The script was written by Elmer Fudd?

Seriously, I don't much care either way, although I like how it's turning out.

And there are a lot of good gaming jokes in there (End the Turn comes to mind...). I like it, and want to see more.

IronMouse
2006-12-15, 03:26 PM
I dont know what is with all the Wsbut it is very annoying.

And I cant see that getting any better. Having established this annoying speech pattern the strip will be compelled to keep doing it for as long as it runs.

Jorkens
2006-12-15, 03:31 PM
I would like to point out that not all of the r's are w's. there are only 4 w's for r's in the seven strips, 64 panels, 96 speech bubbles and 757 words of dialogue and narration (give or take a dozen or so). So im not sure what all the fuss is about.

Quoted for truth.

Or at least, for having been truth at the time of posting.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-15, 04:57 PM
comic is up to 1000 words, 121 speech bubbles, 78 panels, 8 strips and still only 8 "w's for r's". seriously thats a mere 0.8% of the words so far. i would count the percentage of replaced letters, but that would just be too much, now wouldnt it? :smallbiggrin:

Brickwall
2006-12-15, 05:43 PM
How about you count the number of different words used? As in, no repeats. "The" only counts once for the entire thing, for example.

Honestly, that'd be much more useful.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-15, 05:51 PM
then dwagon, gobwin and such would only count once a piece too, which make there be a total of only 4 w's for r's (gobwin, dwagon, spidew, and gwiffon) and i doubt there will ever be much more.

i can figure that if you really want me to, but thatll take some time. but ive got nothing better to do......so off i go.

TinSoldier
2006-12-16, 12:01 AM
Actually I would only count the number of words that either contain 'R' or are expected to contain 'R' and calculate the percentage from there.

Brickwall
2006-12-16, 12:07 AM
Also a wonderful idea.

EdgarVerona
2006-12-16, 03:15 AM
I thought it was a speech impediment, but EVERYONE does it. So it's either some kind of cultural thing (i.e. part of the language, r is replaced with w) or it's some kind of regional dialect (like how Bostonians Paaaak the Caaaah instead of Park the Car =) ).

I'm still neutral on it though, for now. Might grow on me and I won't notice it anymore.

Mr_Saturn
2006-12-16, 04:02 AM
Twe W's awe cwute.

Which was what we wanted wight?

Godehart
2006-12-16, 04:14 AM
I voted yes because I don't hate them. I think it adds something to the comic. They are definetly NOT better than Thog though :P

Maurog
2006-12-17, 05:45 AM
Better than Thog as in "more good" than Thog in the sense that Thog is evil.

Noneoyabizzness
2006-12-17, 07:06 AM
dang it people, donb't you get it?

it's world of fuddcraft. the w is manditory, as are the overswized heads

Symian
2006-12-17, 03:14 PM
I love them! I don't love them more than thog, but I DO now think he'd be better as "thwog"! ;-)

Furin_Mirado
2006-12-17, 11:39 PM
I personaly like the Rs because it says something about the setting. A griffon is a half-lion, half-eagle that can tear you to shreds in an instant. However a gwiffon appears to be a large, feathery, flying peep. Given that the setting appears to be inside a military strategy game then it would seem that it's marketed for children. The fact that every creature living in the game doesn't seem to notice this and takes everything seriously adds extra humor.:smallwink:

Siberys
2006-12-18, 12:03 AM
I like the direction the comic is going, but I seriously dislike all the Ws in place of Rs and Ls. Then again, I'm the perfectionist son of a High-School English teacher, so... yeah. :smallbiggrin:

Cheers,
Siberys

dragon95046
2006-12-18, 03:27 AM
I am not even sure how to pronounce "Spidew". I bounce around between sounding like spy-doh, spy-dew and spit-dew. As for the big deal of their being only 4 words that substitute W's, it really comes down to just one of a number of things that irk me about this comic boo...er "graphic novel."

Raveler1
2006-12-18, 11:43 AM
I've assumed Spidew sounds like a little kid - spy-dow (w/r) - but I can't express it in standard english writing. Anyone have their IPA dictionary handy, care to express the exact sound that replaces a terminal "er" sound?

Ok, maybe that's just me.

Renegade Paladin
2006-12-18, 02:38 PM
The misspellings are neither cute nor childish; they're just irritatingly stupid. I've already given up on Erfworld because of it.

Maurog
2006-12-18, 03:02 PM
As long as you keep posting in the Erfworld forums, we love you anyway!

jami
2006-12-18, 03:03 PM
As long as you keep posting in the Erfworld forums, we love you anyway!

LOL!

Had we known we were going to be put to such grammatical scrutiny, we would never have replaced every single "r" that every character uses with a "w."

Oh...

Renegade Paladin
2006-12-18, 03:11 PM
http://www.libriumarcana.com/Uploads/Rogue/Pictures/JPEGs/spelling.jpg

:tongue:

Aust_Arrowsplitter
2006-12-18, 03:23 PM
I kinda like the W's. It does add a tad bit of verisimilitude: It makes the world seem more like its own world, and less like just another Forgotten Realms knockoff we see in so many other fantasy comics.

And the whole 'end the turn' thing is kinda cool as well... though... how long is a turn? Will we find out? Is it a standard six-second round, or is it like a turn in some Turn Based Strategy games, like Advance Wars, where a turn lasts until all your units have used all their actions, or you pass.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-18, 03:46 PM
yay more logic to defeat the nay-sayers!
anyway, just counted the panels again, and there are 116 times where the letter r would be normally used, only 8 times was it substituted for a w, which results in only 6.8% of r's being w's. since people also complain about gobwin, i checked the l's to w's. there were 118 times where l was normal and only 2 substitutions (both in reference to the city of Gobwin Knob). thats a massive 1.7% of the total. if you stack them, you get a 4.3% exchange. so if 4.3% of affected letters really bothers you, you really need to live somewhere where dialect and accent are normal (ie, deep south, chicago, philadelphia, etc) and realize that this is not a big deal. also, as mention before (on this thread and maybe others), look at the things that are being reference with transposed letters. the thing that Lord Manpower the Temporary is riding resembles a spider in basic physiology only (eight legs and eyes) but its huge size dictates that it is very different in many other respects. Look at the creature in Erfworld #3 and in the end of Erfworld #6, again physiology is similar to a dragon, but manner and style insist that it is something very different. The gwiffon looks nothing like the griffon of folklore. its not a lion/eagle that rains death on its foes from the heaven, but rather an gigantic animate marshmellow peep. and since we havent seen a gobwin that resembles a goblin or any reference to it outside of the name of the city, whats to say that its nothing more than the name of someone famous? maybe the founder of the city was named Peter Gobwin or something. so, discounting that, it makes the transpositions drop somewhat (to 0%, or 0 out of 116 for l=>w, and 3.4% for total or 8 out of 232).

Gundato
2006-12-18, 04:12 PM
I do like the concept of minor alterations to words to help with the atmosphere, but I feel that it detracts from the atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, it isn't overly used. The problem is that our first introduction to the W system was with the 6-page launch. If it had been slowly shown to us (1 page per update) I feel that people would treat it much like we treat Thog or Durkon. As it stands, it feels more like the Congaree dialect in Harry Turtledove's novels. A dialect added for the sake of being a dialect, not so much for the immersion.

Roderick_BR
2006-12-18, 08:23 PM
Could be worse... they could swap the "L" too...

Brickwall
2006-12-18, 11:06 PM
Sir, I just recently moved from an area with a New England accent (read: close to nonregional) to an area with a southern accent. I'm bothered by it as much as the W's. I can still talk to the people, but it makes me not want to. Even with redeeming features, it's still that big pimple on the face of the Mona Lisa.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-19, 12:05 PM
oh, i agree, that somethings can be annoying (my pet peeve is when people pronounce wash as "warsh" or wolf as "woof"). so i know where you are coming from. however, having realized that there is nothing that i can do to change it, i accept and move on. sometimes it sends a shiver down my spine, but i dont piss and moan about it. i live in rural oklahoma, and spent a year and a half at school in arkansas, have family from south eastern texas and in new orleans, so believe me when i say that im used to annoying accents. and if you dont want to read Erfworld, that totally fine. No one is forcing you to. no more than they are requiring you to watch a certain tv program or listen to a certain radio station. If you cant stand it, leave it be, but if you can get past the inconsequential dialect alteration and enjoy the comic for its wit and plot, then congratulations, come and join us.

Brickwall
2006-12-19, 04:24 PM
I love the wit and plot. But it's the pimple on the Mona Lisa, like I said.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-12-19, 10:05 PM
Heh. Guess the anti-"w-where-should-be-an-r" people would really get annoyed with Homestar Runner. :smallbiggrin:

Well, my two shmuckers. The characters do not talk like that everytime. It's just the name of the creatures. Secondly, I don't think it gives a childish touch on the comic, since my imagination says that Wanda and Jillian are hot women that I would tottaly hit if I were Prince Ansom. And lastly, I am starting to think that this comic is really based in some sort of game and all. Even the cast page has races, classes, occupations (kinda like the job system from FF5) and they have turns in battle. Each creature has its properties, and we have some sort of magic items, like the helmet Jillian was using and the hat Amson gave her.

I dream of the day when we'll have the full PC game to play with! Or, as funny as it, a book explaining the RPG system. :smallwink:

Oh. I see my schmuckers going away again. :smallbiggrin:

Brickwall
2006-12-19, 10:39 PM
Well, I do dislike Homestar Runner most of the time, but that's not the point. :biggrin:

Eva of Banjo
2006-12-21, 10:25 AM
It's just the way folks talk in Erfworld I guess, kinda like how folks talk in Bahston. I think it's cool.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-26, 11:31 AM
and now for more counting fun!
0 out of 24 w's=>r's this time and 0 out of 13 w's=>l's, which makes for 0% on each, and a combined 0% for the comic. when included in the whole, it drops the precents to 5.7%, 1.5% and 3.7% for the r's, l's and totals respectively.
i have decided to retract gobwin being a name (mostly due to its sarcasm, but also due to the fact that gobwin was shown to be a creature on the erfatar request thread). enjoy!

silentknight
2006-12-27, 07:14 PM
Thank you for mentioning the L to W in Gobwin. I was about to say, "goblin doesn't have an R!"

Anyway, I love it!

My theory is that the world was created by a child (or childlike god) but is populated by adults (or by the "characters" of adults). Since the child made the world, it got to populate that world and name all of the cweatures. That would explain why only the names of those critters are strangely spelled, but the rest of normal speech seems unaffected. It also explains why the critters are cute/toy-like/candy-related.

On a different note, I really, really want to know all of the -Mancers. I agree that the croakamancer seems like a necromancer, and the idea that the dirtomancer is an earth-element spellcaster seems likely. I think there will be other elemental casters too.

Or is a dirtomancer just a fancy name for a farmer?

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-29, 04:38 PM
time for some more counting fun!
due to lack of dialogue, this one was easy
w's for r's 0/2 0%
w's for l's 0/6 0%
total 0/8 0%

so far in the strip
w's for r's 8/142 5.6%
w's for l's 2/137 1.5%
total 10/279 3.6%

at this point, its not really to prove anything. i just like counting them. :smallbiggrin: