Jyton
2013-07-28, 02:20 AM
Good evening playgrounders! I'm working on a series of spells, hopefully ending up at/around third level, for the purpose of knocking single creatures unconscious and keeping them that way.
Some background, these spells will be used primarily by a level 5 Wizard NPC Big Game Hunter who specializes in capturing rare and exotic creatures from around the world and making them available as pets, mounts, animal companions, familiars, or additions to royal menageries. For this purpose I'm working on two spells, alpha names Go Down and Stay Down, which deal nonlethal damage.
Let's crunch some numbers.
Merciful Spell (Metamagic) has a zero-level adjustment, and converts all lethal damage to nonlethal.
The iconic 3rd level damage spell, Fireball, when cast as soon as you can normally get it, 5th level for a Wizard, deals a minimum damage of 2 (assuming it passes SR at all) in a perfectly-bad-luck situation (rolling all 1s on your five d6s, against one target, who makes the save for 2.5, rounded down) and a maximum of 1,320 (again used at 5th level, rolling all 6s, against 44 targets (the number of squares a 20ft radius spread) none of whom make their save, for 5*6*44) in a godly-luck situation. I have no intention of making these spells deal anywhere near that much damage, I just want to use this number as a gauge of "how much" magic there is/can be in a third level spell.
Fire Trail (ARG) has the potential to do tens of thousands of damage if metagamed correctly, but I'm not really going to worry about that.
Flame Arrow (PFRPG Core) adds a straight 50d6 (average 175) fire damage as a 3rd level spell, but has to be cast on a quiver of arrows.
Pain Strike (APG) is a close spell which deals 1d6 nonlethal damage per round/level to one living target for a minimum of 5 damage and a maximum of 30, using the same calculation as above.
In fact, the vast majority of direct damage spells I've been able to find deal 1d6/level, which is pretty measly. The average CR 5 monster has 55 HP, however HP accelerates much more quickly than CR, going from 20 at 2nd level to 370 at 20th level. I'm okay with using multiple castings of this spell to put a monster down, but the point of the spell is to get it to Go Down. Pain Strike in this situation deals 17.5 damage on average, which means we would need four of them to get the job done.
Finger of Death deals a straight 10 damage per level if you fail your fort save, but it's a 7th level spell.
Now, here's where I need your help. How much damage is reasonable for a 3rd level spell, targeting one creature, dealing nonlethal damage? Would something like...
Go Down
School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3; Domain Mercy;
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a miniature sap)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw fort half; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
A thin beam of white light projects from your pointing finder. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage. The ray deals 6 points of nonlethal damage per caster level.
...be reasonable? It's essentially a scaled back version of Finger of Death with the duel limitations of dealing less damage and only being able to deal nonlethal damage (there aren't any metamagic feats to turn nonlethal damage into lethal damage, I checked.) You're gonna have to hit your foe with this at least twice to bring 'em down, but my wizard is going to know that, and he's going to prepare it that way ahead of his hunts. On the other hand, how limiting do you guys think nonlethal damage as a mechanical modifier really is? Do you think I could get away with giving this a 10/level? That would make it identical to a 7th level spell except for the damage type change. On the other other hand, there's a lot of magical "power" in a 3rd level spell, a fireball fills 44 square with 5d6 damage. Am I just hoping for too much, from a balance standpoint? Even with nonlethal damage equal to its maximum hit points, you've still got a fully "healthy" mom to deal with since nonlethal damage isn't "real" damage (their phrase, not mine!) and it'll wake up at some point.
Next up, I promised you a 2nd spell, Stay Down. You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. The Dire Albino Lions (and such) this guy will be hunting are highly unlikely to have class levels, so lets assume we only need to deal one point of nonlethal damage per hour to keep the thing unconscious for the trip home.
Stay Down
School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3; Domain Mercy;
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a miniature pillow)
EFFECT
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 24 hours/level
Saving Throw fort negates; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
This spell can be used to keep a creature which has fallen unconscious due to nonlethal damage that way by counteracting their natural healing. Each hour for the duration of this spell the target takes one point of nonlethal damage. If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to its total maximum hit points (not its current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious.
Special; this spell may be cast on the same creature multiple times. Its effects stack.
Okay so, thoughts? I've got a couple of other ideas kicking around in my head, but I've already given you quite a wall of text to go through. Congratulations for making it!
EDIT: I forgot to mention, everything that exists in my world is available to the players, at least theoretically. If it were just going to be used by NPCs I would just wave my hand and say "he uses a spell. It works because magic" but one of my players has already expressed interest in getting some scrolls/a wand of the spells this guy uses, which is the real reason I care about balance.
Some background, these spells will be used primarily by a level 5 Wizard NPC Big Game Hunter who specializes in capturing rare and exotic creatures from around the world and making them available as pets, mounts, animal companions, familiars, or additions to royal menageries. For this purpose I'm working on two spells, alpha names Go Down and Stay Down, which deal nonlethal damage.
Let's crunch some numbers.
Merciful Spell (Metamagic) has a zero-level adjustment, and converts all lethal damage to nonlethal.
The iconic 3rd level damage spell, Fireball, when cast as soon as you can normally get it, 5th level for a Wizard, deals a minimum damage of 2 (assuming it passes SR at all) in a perfectly-bad-luck situation (rolling all 1s on your five d6s, against one target, who makes the save for 2.5, rounded down) and a maximum of 1,320 (again used at 5th level, rolling all 6s, against 44 targets (the number of squares a 20ft radius spread) none of whom make their save, for 5*6*44) in a godly-luck situation. I have no intention of making these spells deal anywhere near that much damage, I just want to use this number as a gauge of "how much" magic there is/can be in a third level spell.
Fire Trail (ARG) has the potential to do tens of thousands of damage if metagamed correctly, but I'm not really going to worry about that.
Flame Arrow (PFRPG Core) adds a straight 50d6 (average 175) fire damage as a 3rd level spell, but has to be cast on a quiver of arrows.
Pain Strike (APG) is a close spell which deals 1d6 nonlethal damage per round/level to one living target for a minimum of 5 damage and a maximum of 30, using the same calculation as above.
In fact, the vast majority of direct damage spells I've been able to find deal 1d6/level, which is pretty measly. The average CR 5 monster has 55 HP, however HP accelerates much more quickly than CR, going from 20 at 2nd level to 370 at 20th level. I'm okay with using multiple castings of this spell to put a monster down, but the point of the spell is to get it to Go Down. Pain Strike in this situation deals 17.5 damage on average, which means we would need four of them to get the job done.
Finger of Death deals a straight 10 damage per level if you fail your fort save, but it's a 7th level spell.
Now, here's where I need your help. How much damage is reasonable for a 3rd level spell, targeting one creature, dealing nonlethal damage? Would something like...
Go Down
School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3; Domain Mercy;
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a miniature sap)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw fort half; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
A thin beam of white light projects from your pointing finder. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage. The ray deals 6 points of nonlethal damage per caster level.
...be reasonable? It's essentially a scaled back version of Finger of Death with the duel limitations of dealing less damage and only being able to deal nonlethal damage (there aren't any metamagic feats to turn nonlethal damage into lethal damage, I checked.) You're gonna have to hit your foe with this at least twice to bring 'em down, but my wizard is going to know that, and he's going to prepare it that way ahead of his hunts. On the other hand, how limiting do you guys think nonlethal damage as a mechanical modifier really is? Do you think I could get away with giving this a 10/level? That would make it identical to a 7th level spell except for the damage type change. On the other other hand, there's a lot of magical "power" in a 3rd level spell, a fireball fills 44 square with 5d6 damage. Am I just hoping for too much, from a balance standpoint? Even with nonlethal damage equal to its maximum hit points, you've still got a fully "healthy" mom to deal with since nonlethal damage isn't "real" damage (their phrase, not mine!) and it'll wake up at some point.
Next up, I promised you a 2nd spell, Stay Down. You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. The Dire Albino Lions (and such) this guy will be hunting are highly unlikely to have class levels, so lets assume we only need to deal one point of nonlethal damage per hour to keep the thing unconscious for the trip home.
Stay Down
School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3; Domain Mercy;
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a miniature pillow)
EFFECT
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 24 hours/level
Saving Throw fort negates; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
This spell can be used to keep a creature which has fallen unconscious due to nonlethal damage that way by counteracting their natural healing. Each hour for the duration of this spell the target takes one point of nonlethal damage. If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to its total maximum hit points (not its current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious.
Special; this spell may be cast on the same creature multiple times. Its effects stack.
Okay so, thoughts? I've got a couple of other ideas kicking around in my head, but I've already given you quite a wall of text to go through. Congratulations for making it!
EDIT: I forgot to mention, everything that exists in my world is available to the players, at least theoretically. If it were just going to be used by NPCs I would just wave my hand and say "he uses a spell. It works because magic" but one of my players has already expressed interest in getting some scrolls/a wand of the spells this guy uses, which is the real reason I care about balance.