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The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-12, 11:25 PM
Flay
Conjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Area: One living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text
Spell Resistance: No

With a touch you cause a being's outter epidermis to rip itself from its body and fall limply to the ground. They must succeed on a fortitude save or die instantly. If they succeed on the save they still sustain 10d6 points of damage. They also take 1 point of constitution damage from blood-loss per round as long as they retain the damage mentioned above. A secondary fortitude save must be made every round while flayed or be stunned from the shock and pain.

The victim loses any natural armor bonus to AC. All subdual damage while the victim is flayed is considered to be lethal. Its movement rates are halved and the victim may not run without taking an additional 1d6 points of damage per round.

The victim must be healed of the original damage sustained to regain their skin

Elementals, oozes and incorporeal creatures are unaffected by this spell.

Arcane Focus: A razor blade.

Amotis
2006-12-12, 11:32 PM
Um, same question. What about insects? Things with exoskeletons?

Karsh
2006-12-12, 11:38 PM
I would suggest that the skin damage cannot be repaired without a Heal spell or something similarly high level, given the horrendously powerful source of this attack.

Also... 1d10 CON damage on a passed save per round? How many rounds does that last for? The duration of the spell is instantaneous right now. Also, 1d10 seems like a hell of a lot for a failed save, even if it is a 9th level spell. I'd suggest lowering the CON damage die by at least two steps. More, depending on how long that effect lasts.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-12, 11:38 PM
Um, same question. What about insects? Things with exoskeletons?
Why wouldn't it work on them? Said no to oozes and elementals only because they don't really have 'skin'.

And though most vermin have only exoskeletons, there are some I believe that have an exoskeleton and a bit of an inner one. And the strange vermin in D&D... who knows.

Though I guess I could say it reduces a vermin's strength to 0... but that'd be too strong. Anyone could take on even epic vermin then as the save only keeps you from dying, not losing your skin.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-12, 11:42 PM
I would suggest that the skin damage cannot be repaired without a Heal spell or something similarly high level, given the horrendously powerful source of this attack.
Well, I mean, if you heal all the damage of losing your skin then logically your skin must be back. Sure, while partially healed you'll be a monsterous walking scab, but...


Also... 1d10 CON damage on a passed save per round? How many rounds does that last for? The duration of the spell is instantaneous right now.
The duration is instantaneous because the affect is. The aftermath however continues on. If you have no skin you should be bleeding to death easily.


Also, 1d10 seems like a hell of a lot for a failed save, even if it is a 9th level spell. I'd suggest lowering the CON damage die by at least two steps. More, depending on how long that effect lasts.
I dunno, its only an average of 35 points you sustain if you make the save. Any party with a healer should be able to manage that in a single casting easier than breathing.

Karsh
2006-12-13, 12:07 AM
I have no problem with the damage dice, I'm talking about the CON damage. If it's 1d10 points of CON damage, and then nothing more the next round, then yeah, I could allow that. But multiple rounds of CON damage with the potential to do that much damage might as well make a new classification of spell:

Die-or-Die-Anyways

Peregrine
2006-12-13, 12:23 AM
OW.

...

I mean, seriously, OW.

Anyway. Again on the Con thing... in 3.5, a single instance of Con loss is supposed to represent a bleeding wound. I don't know why this is supposed to be better mechanically than ongoing HP loss (3e), but WotC must think it is.

Your spell gives the worst of both worlds: Con loss rather than HP, but ongoing rather than once-off. Which makes me think it's probably a trifle too much.

Also, I was under the impression that the Restoration line of spells were supposed to be able to restore lost body parts... but the SRD text doesn't support this. It does however say that they can restore one or all ability scores' damage or drain, depending on the Restoration spell. So this could heal the Con damage, but not the HP loss. Now, if you keep the Con loss as an ongoing thing, that's okay -- Restoration will stave off death by restoring Con, but it'll just start bleeding out again on the next round -- but if you make it just once-off Con loss, then healing the Con damage should have some visible effect. Perhaps it restores the skin, perhaps not -- it might make you the 'monstrous walking scab' you mentioned. So that way, healing the HP gives you back your skin, but not necessarily the blood lost; healing the Con damage reverses (and stops, if it's a one-off) the blood loss, but you still don't have skin (and the other penalties should apply).

Callos_DeTerran
2006-12-13, 12:50 AM
This....ow.....Just ow.....



My two coppers? Make this an [Evil] spell. I can see no self aware good spellcaster casting this unless their making a short trip to evil. I mean...this is like Corrupt spells evil. Rip a creatures skin off and on a successful save leave them alive with no skin on?

Demented
2006-12-13, 12:59 AM
It's very possible that removing all skin wouldn't hurt too much, since it's the skin that's meant to external pains. So just remove the surface layer of skin so the flesh is raw.

The material component, nay, arcane focus, should be a razorblade, or better, a cheese grater. Just to get the point across.

Gerrtt
2006-12-13, 01:00 AM
I have to say, I'm thouroughly amused and grinning with approval. Good one VT.

Mike_Lemmer
2006-12-13, 03:29 AM
Well, you could compare it to Flensing (lvl 8, CArc), which does the same thing but slower.

Still, comparing this spell (Lvl 9) with it (Lvl 8), I'd say this spell is at least twice as good as it, so there's an imbalance somewhere.

Oh, and it is [Evil].

erewhon
2006-12-13, 04:25 AM
How does this compare to Flensing?

I suspect the ongoing Con drain might be a bit much. It is Touch only, meaning you have to hit touch AC (not trivial against many folks at this level) and then they save versus insta-death and take a good shot in the chops anyway.

Seems built off a ninth level Disintegrate chassis to me.... Which is perfectly fine, except for the Con drain.

Make the Con drain a 1-time thing, and this is more reasonable, with total damage on a failed save then being 35 points + 60 points lost due to losing +3 con bonus times 20-odd levels, all reparable with a Mass Heal or Heal.

Looks pretty balanced at that point. Interesting design. :)

Rumda
2006-12-13, 05:48 AM
and with the natural armour removed then most non-humanoids at that level will fall very easily, since you just have to roll against the touch ac basicly

Maryring
2006-12-13, 06:06 AM
1d10 con damage each round IS too much, considering that if the Cleric or Druid, if the party even HAVE one of those, has about 6 seconds to run to said ally in order to save his life and then cast a spell that in and itself is more powerful than the damage done. (Heal would heal 150 damage, assuming single class level 15+, and with an average damage of 35 points according to your calculation.)

It IS evil, it is also slightly overpowered as it is now. Because, as said earlier, this is a die-or-die-anyway spell. Other than that... *shudder*, still a good job.

Yuki Akuma
2006-12-13, 06:49 AM
Perhaps making it one of those spells that drains your own ability scores (probably Constitution in this case) would make it more balanced.

And, yes, it should be [Evil]!

Simius
2006-12-13, 10:06 AM
Nice spell, Tribble

But how about undead? Trying to rip the skin of a skeleton would be rather pointless, I'd imagine, and a zombie's skin is allready half-decayed.

I'd also think that 'pain and shock' wouldn't be much of a factor on undead.

edit: Nevermind me. I should read stuff better before posting.

NullAshton
2006-12-13, 10:14 AM
I would suggest that there would be a second fortitude save or suffer the loss of the skin. Because otherwise, a greater rod of maximize and this? 60 instant damage and loss of 10 constitution, which means 200 some HP for 40 hitdie creatures... with no save...

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 10:27 AM
Alright, alright, how does just one measely be of Con damage per round sound?


My two coppers? Make this an [Evil] spell. I can see no self aware good spellcaster casting this unless their making a short trip to evil. I mean...this is like Corrupt spells evil. Rip a creatures skin off and on a successful save leave them alive with no skin on?I don't really think there should be an evil descriptor because the act of pulling off skin is really horrible, but their is nothing inherently evil about actually pulling off skin.

Thing is, I can imagine good-aligned uses for this believe it or not. There are some parasitic creatures and spells that directly affect the skin. Remove it, and instantly reheal and everything is gone. I'm even thinking you could use this to remove a Mark of Justice.



The material component, nay, arcane focus, should be a razorblade, or better, a cheese grater. That'd work.


Perhaps making it one of those spells that drains your own ability scores (probably Constitution in this case) would make it more balanced.I thought about about drain... but drain means there is something in addition keeping your body from ever recovering. If you are healed and the skin regrown you should be able to heal back the damage from bloodloss.



But how about undead? Trying to rip the skin of a skeleton would be rather pointless, I'd imagine, and a zombie's skin is allready half-decayed.

I'd also think that 'pain and shock' wouldn't be much of a factor on undead."Area: One living creature touched"

Yuki Akuma
2006-12-13, 11:41 AM
I thought about about drain... but drain means there is something in addition keeping your body from ever recovering. If you are healed and the skin regrown you should be able to heal back the damage from bloodloss.

What?

No.

Read your copy of the Book of Vile Darkness, or its good-aligned counterpart.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 11:46 AM
*blinks in confusion*

Karsh
2006-12-13, 11:51 AM
This is another nit-picky thing, but I really like this spell.

You need to specify when the duration of the CON loss would end. I would assume that it is when the creature's skin is restored (I.E. the damage from Flay is healed), but ambiguity in a spell description is a bad thing.

Maryring
2006-12-13, 12:05 PM
Basically, when you cast a Corrupt spell, you suffer drain. For example, "Apocalypse from the sky" has a Corruption cost of 1d4 points of wisdom drain for having prepared, and a Corruption cost of 2d4 points of wisdom wisdom drain when casted. This means that when you prepare the spell, you take 1d4 points of wisdom drain, and when you cast it you suffer 2d4 points of wisdom drain.

Going to your spell, I would suggest giving it a corruption cost of about 1d4 points of constitution drain.

And your reasons for using it aren't good. Simply because they could be cured more benevolently and without any pain and damage involved at all by a Heal or Break Enchantment (it removes Mark of Justice, does it not) spell. And why on EARTH would you cast a spell that is designed to kill someone in a very painful way on an ally to cure him or her?

Peregrine
2006-12-13, 12:06 PM
Thing is, I can imagine good-aligned uses for this believe it or not. There are some parasitic creatures and spells that directly affect the skin. Remove it, and instantly reheal and everything is gone. I'm even thinking you could use this to remove a Mark of Justice.

*blink*

*blinkblink*

Remind me never to seek dermatological treatment from Dr V. Tribble. :smalltongue:

Seriously, this spell reads like it's designed to rip the skin from a living body. (You can't even use it to skin a slain creature -- 'living' only.) That sounds pretty evil. There are always good ends that can be achieved by evil means (and [evil] spells), but if I needed my Magical Dermatitis of Doom cured, I wouldn't go to the creepy wizard with the humanskin-bound spellbook, I'd go to the cleric who can cast skinpurge (hypothetical spell I just made up, dissolves the skin and instantly replaces it with a fresh new layer; no agonising pain, just some minor discomfort and a lasting tingling sensation).

cnsvnc
2006-12-13, 12:21 PM
Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow... You get the point.

You know, I really think that FAILING the save should leave the victim alive. Someone whose skin has been ripped off would PREFER to be dead, I'd imagine.

Yes, it is evil.

Grey Knight
2006-12-13, 01:06 PM
It's very possible that removing all skin wouldn't hurt too much, since it's the skin that's meant to external pains. So just remove the surface layer of skin so the flesh is raw.
Unless it's finessed enough to leave the nerves present and exposed. In which case... ouch. :smalleek:


You can't even use it to skin a slain creature -- 'living' only.
That's a nice point; there should be a Druid/Ranger spell for skinning dead animals; it could probably be lower-level, considering.

XtheYeti
2006-12-13, 01:10 PM
...lich...with skin...from some one ealse...for my horrors campain...BWAHAHAHA!!!!

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 01:42 PM
Going to your spell, I would suggest giving it a corruption cost of about 1d4 points of constitution drain.
Ooh, gotcha. Err, no. It may be an evil act to rip forth skin, but there is no reason it should be evil to that degree.


And why on EARTH would you cast a spell that is designed to kill someone in a very painful way on an ally to cure him or her?
Because it was early in the morning and in the haze of a brain fart I had forgotten this kills on a failed save...


That's a nice point; there should be a Druid/Ranger spell for skinning dead animals; it could probably be lower-level, considering.
Already working on one ;)

This flaying idea was actually spawned when I was working on my entry for the Gift contest to which it relates.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-13, 01:47 PM
this is probably the sickest thing i have ever read. good job VT. agreed with the [evil] tag, this is way too creepy to not be evil. and what happens to the skin? is it torn off in pieces? as a whole suit? is it disolved or disentintegrated? just wondering how it would work in regards to resurrection (which still requires some piece of the person). i wouldnt want to have to carry back the bloodied, skinless corpse of the guy, if i can just take a swath of skin. still <jibblies>

Rapida
2006-12-13, 01:51 PM
very cool spell. I can imagine a blood magus using this.

Maryring
2006-12-13, 02:03 PM
Well, the constitution drain/damage was just a suggestion. There are some less evil spells with the Corruption descriptor, and there are some more evil spells without it. There's no pattern. It was just a balancing suggestion, because if it damaged the caster, as well as the target, the caster would be a bit more careful with when and how to cast the spell. Still, this is a spell I would place in BoVD, for nastiness effect. Good job.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 02:36 PM
It was just a balancing suggestion, because if it damaged the caster, as well as the target, the caster would be a bit more careful with when and how to cast the spell.
Aye, that would be a good way to balance it, but just can't see corruption meshing with the theme of the thing. Now that'd be a cool... a spell that only switches skin with a creature, granting you its AC and it yours.

Maryring
2006-12-13, 02:39 PM
Okay. You just lost all rights to call BoVD sickening. *hurl* THAT is one disgusting spell.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 03:09 PM
Okay. You just lost all rights to call BoVD sickening. *hurl* THAT is one disgusting spell.
Riiight...


Anyways, here is that spell for skinning/gutting dead things - Gut (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29539)

Maryring
2006-12-13, 03:13 PM
Hey. I am only messing with you, and I reserve the right to do that to the person who inspired the gobbler template. :smalltongue:

Callos_DeTerran
2006-12-13, 05:43 PM
I was thinking more of the excuetion of the spell rather then the actual use for it. Like someone said before VT it sounds like the skin is ripped from the target. Which is most likely horribly painful. Like....like the spell took a force razor and slides it just underneath of the skin severeing the attachments (read: nerves) so it just...shucks off...Does this spell make forsaken husks from Libris Mortis? You know the un-living skin things in there....ewwww

Aeyamar
2006-12-13, 06:14 PM
That is not a conjuration spell. It's definitely necromancy.

fangthane
2006-12-13, 06:40 PM
Hmm, I guess we can consider my question in the "Gut" discussion answered ;)

Here's some more questions:
Troll (i.e. if magic/skin damage is nonlethal to begin with, how does this affect them)?
Iron Body/Stoneskin? (iron body prevents it? Stoneskin mitigates or exacerbates the effect?)
Monocellular aberration? (if its skin is its only cell membrane, how can such a creature survive even on a save?)
Incorporeal/special planar behavior? (assuming the touch does strike on the 50% miss chance, will it pull the skin off an Ethereal Filcher? An Astral Dreadnaught?)
Plant? (I can't see this making a Shambling Mound worry, as they have no epidermis as such, but does it affect them and/or any other plant creatures?)

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-12-13, 06:49 PM
That is not a conjuration spell. It's definitely necromancy.It does not deal with negative energies, pain, or anything necromatic whatsoever.


Troll (i.e. if magic/skin damage is nonlethal to begin with, how does this affect them)?They basically die from the shock if they make the save... then regrow and come back to life.


Iron Body/Stoneskin? (iron body prevents it? Stoneskin mitigates or exacerbates the effect?)Doesn't matter WHAT your skin is made of. Most dragons probably have scales that make iron and stone look weak.


Monocellular aberration? (if its skin is its only cell membrane, how can such a creature survive even on a save?)Can't account for every single type of creature that might be abnormal skin-wise. Alot of spells would be foiled in this reguard. Just go by the rules or use common sense as is standard.


Incorporeal/special planar behavior? (assuming the touch does strike on the 50% miss chance, will it pull the skin off an Ethereal Filcher? An Astral Dreadnaught?)
I'd say no. You'd need to be on their plane to make their skin fall off.


Plant? (I can't see this making a Shambling Mound worry, as they have no epidermis as such, but does it affect them and/or any other plant creatures?)Most plants die if you completely skin them. They still have to have something to transport neccessary fluids. I believe trees are immune to stunning however.

Fizban
2006-12-13, 09:44 PM
Just want to throw in my interperetation of intstant skin removal:
I'd say death on a failed save, and massive con loss on a succesful save.
If a wounding weapon deals 1 con damage from blood loss per hit, think of what bleeding from your intire body would do/

So, without much regard for balance, I'd go with failed save: death, succesful save: 1d10 con drain (you're just not gonna regrow an entire body's worth of skin from nothing without magic), followed by 1d6 con damage/round. Cuts natural armor in half either way
(much NA comes from thick muscles and blubber under the thick skin).

But that's rediculously powerful, so with regards to balance:
Failed save: removes skin, dealing con drain and damage as above, cuts natural armor in half, succesful save: partial flensing deals 1d10 con damage.
And finally: looks good to me, but now I really want to stat up my spell for criticism....

Mewtarthio
2006-12-13, 10:45 PM
*blink*

*blinkblink*

Remind me never to seek dermatological treatment from Dr V. Tribble. :smalltongue:

"Doctor Tribble, I fell into some poison ivy and now I'm covered in nasty rashes."
"Oh, that's no problem at all... *RIIIIIIIP!* There you go! No more rashes!"

Karsh
2006-12-13, 10:48 PM
Makes your arm feel all better, don't it?

fangthane
2006-12-13, 11:12 PM
Troll - Fair enough... I was also thinking in terms of the "all subdual is lethal" but presumably it still has to be fire or acid since they're a bit of a special case.
Stoneskin - also fair enough, but...
Iron Body - in the SRD description, it says

You are immune to ... ability score damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#abilityDamage) ... and all spells or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this spell is in effect.
Specifically what I'm wondering is whether this is considered a "spell or attack that affects your physiology" - I know in my case I'd be inclined to rule that Iron Body, for all its limitations, is a trump to this spell (though by the same token anyone using this spell would know that) In any case the constitution damage would be nil until the Iron body wore off, obviously.

Looks like a pretty nice spell to me, even if a level 8 spell appears to be able to block it - because after all, you really don't want your sorc to have to save against this thing, do you? :)

The_Cowinator
2006-12-14, 01:44 AM
Uhg. Gotta say it has it's uses you know. Any dragonslayer should keep this memorized at all times (No natural AC+10d6!!!! And that's on a made save).


I thought about about drain... but drain means there is something in addition keeping your body from ever recovering. If you are healed and the skin regrown you should be able to heal back the damage from bloodloss.

You recover blood at a slow rate. Thats why everyone in a car accident needs blood transfusions. Make them have to regenerate Con at a point per day basis or something similar.

Mike_Lemmer
2006-12-14, 01:56 PM
How does this compare to Flensing?

Well, I can't get into too much detail since it isn't SRD. However, Flay's effect on a successful save is worse than Flensing's effect on a failed save, which seems to like too big of a jump in usefulness from 8th-level to 9th-level spells.

eilandesq
2006-12-14, 11:28 PM
In certain game worlds, this spell would be appropriately titled "Warren's Bane": http://www.answers.com/topic/villains

erewhon
2006-12-15, 01:18 AM
Well, I can't get into too much detail since it isn't SRD. However, Flay's effect on a successful save is worse than Flensing's effect on a failed save, which seems to like too big of a jump in usefulness from 8th-level to 9th-level spells.


Hrrrrm. I don't see it as TOO big of a jump. It's a goodly step up, but it's balanced out. Flensing has range (not much, but it's there) and duration, and does WAY more stat damage than the current toned-down version of Flay, which is a big but situational debuff and medium-nasty hitpoint shot.

The insta-death aspect is nasty, and might even bypass a deathward, (would have to think on that) but you get a save, and at the level this spell is, saves are pretty darn commonly made.

All in all, I'd prolly like to see this "tightened up" a bit with the interactions with other spells, because it is very cool in effect. For example, since Iron Body stops ability damage, Iron Body would stop this spell and flensing cold, except this spell is a save-or-die AND does a decent dose of hitpoints, baanced by the above no range or duration effect.

The_Cowinator
2006-12-16, 04:13 AM
Oh Gods...Just used this spell in a game tonight. The party got almost the whole set of damage in one casting, and the skin only grew back partway...

Aeyamar
2006-12-16, 04:56 PM
It does not deal with negative energies, pain, or anything necromatic whatsoever.

Since when is getting flayed NOT painful.

If it's not necromancy, then what makes it conjuration. It doesn't create, sommon, or transport anything.

Maryring
2006-12-16, 05:00 PM
Hmm... I agree. When I think about it, it sounds most like a Transmutation spell to me. Considering you are changing the appearance of a physical being.

Demented
2006-12-16, 06:32 PM
One could assume it kills the outer flesh and connective tissue, leaving the skin so insubstantial as to fall apart.

bosssmiley
2006-12-17, 04:56 AM
Good spell, powerful yet flavourful

...needs more salt though. :smallwink:

Reptilius
2006-12-17, 07:49 PM
In certain game worlds, this spell would be appropriately titled "Warren's Bane": http://www.answers.com/topic/villains

I get it.

Also, Iron Body implies an iron body, not just skin. This spell would just peel of the top layer of metal, leaving you a little thinner (and shorter) than before.

Rowanomicon
2006-12-17, 08:04 PM
OK, first of all even mentioning salt in this thread should be illegal. (That made me shudder, Boss.)

Anyway, this reminds me of a spell I had the main villain in a free-form pbp RPG cast. The spell did not have a name, but it ripped the skin and flesh from the bones of (I believe) two orcs. It was merely used to demonstrate him magical prowess.

I love the flavour of this spell, though bringing up eating by using the word 'flavour' makes my stomache churn.
Keep up the good work VT, I enjoy reading your HB articles.

Baron_Dex
2006-12-18, 06:07 PM
It seems far too powerful to me. To start out, it they fail the save, they die, but if they succeed, as someone else has pointed out, it is still more powerful than 8th level Flensing (and more powerful than any partial effect should be, in my humble opinion).

The continual con damage I can see, not con drain, if they survive it should be allowed to heal normally or with things like restoration spells.

I have a problem with the way that the damage stops, however. Requiring the victim to restore all hit point damage called by the spell means if they have one or two hit points down (a scratch at that level), they're still bleeding out? I am not sure what to suggest to redress that issue.

Secondly, the part about natural armor is too cruel. A spell that strips the target off its entire natural armor bonus, with no duration, and no save? Hell, even if it had no other effects at all, this spell would wipe out dragons and the like with no trouble. I understand the logic behind it, but, surely not all natural armor comes from skin? Liches and other undead lack skin, but have strong natural armor. Using dragons as an example, they have tough reinforced hides, but ribbons of muscle aren't easy to cut through, and neither are the strong bones underneath, which are also represented by their d12 hit dice and high constitution scores. A penalty, yes. All of it? Too powerful and unrealistic.

I will add my vote to reclassifying it as Transmutation [Evil], like Flensing.

In my opinion, if you want the full list of effects as is, drop the death part of the spell, and make the secondary effects as they are now the new primary effects, to be reduced by a fortitude save. I'd toss on something like 1d6 con damage a round and somewhere from half to full natural armor being negated, it's reasonable if they failed the save. A weaker or damaged creature is going to die anyway.

Commute the partial effects from a successful save to a partial removal of skin that deals hit point damage, marginal con damage, a weaker natural armor penalty and perhaps something like a devil's infernal wound, the loss of a few hit points per round until the victim receives a heal check or some kind of healing magic.

It needs some kind of clarification about how it works, exactly. As gory as it may be, where does the skin go? Disintegrated? Peeled off? What happens to clothing and armor? In my opinion it should stay on, makes the spell reasonably powerful, remains horrifying, and less difficult to adjudicate.

I love the flavor, the feel of it. I've never been satisfied by similar attempts at spells to flay the skin from one's enemies, they're always too weak.

Grey Knight
2006-12-19, 08:05 AM
OK, first of all even mentioning salt in this thread should be illegal. (That made me shudder, Boss.)

Hmm... If I ever end up running any part of a campaign on the Plane of Salt, this spell will probably make an appearance. :smallamused:

chionophile
2006-12-19, 06:17 PM
Cool spell. How about a lower level version that can be controlled better and maybe only removes some of the creature's skin and isn't death on a failed save? Like, "I rip all the skin off his arm (or face, or leg, or...etc.)".

That'd fit your earlier "flawed" idea about fixing an ally with it, Tribble.

Edit: I see Baron_Dex already said something similar to what I did. I like the instant death though, the image of all the skin being ripped off a creature at once is just... disgustingly perfect.

geez3r
2006-12-19, 09:40 PM
VT, is there no limit to your genius? The spell made me cringe... it is so being used in future games.

fangthane
2006-12-22, 05:19 PM
Hmm, I just had a thought and have to ask this question...
Was this at all inspired by Don Herzfeld? I was just visualising the effect, and it seems a lot like one of the segments in "Ah, L'amour."

Collin152
2006-12-22, 05:48 PM
Why is it conjuration?

The_Cowinator
2006-12-22, 06:24 PM
Because you're conjuring their skin off their body to you.

Collin152
2006-12-22, 07:01 PM
I thought it just made it fall off. I dont want to end up with skin all over me. Besides, your right there when its cast. That is not very far to conjure it; its already with you.

Fizban
2006-12-25, 05:18 AM
Why not? Teleport conjures you somewhere else.

Khantalas
2006-12-25, 06:02 AM
In certain game worlds, this spell would be appropriately titled "Warren's Bane": http://www.answers.com/topic/villains

Well, good to know I'm not the only one to recognize the similarity.

Collin152
2006-12-25, 09:42 PM
Why not? Teleport conjures you somewhere else.
Uh huh. That makes sence. But this? Where is it being conjured to?

Traveling_Angel
2006-12-26, 02:01 AM
I think this started with a bad event with VT's razor...

Anyways, This is basically the spell of your dead. Really, I do think it should be damage, and while the effects are realistic, there is very little way to survive, even on a save. Maybe just slashing damage, but a lot of it.

Grey Knight
2006-12-26, 10:38 AM
Uh huh. That makes sence. But this? Where is it being conjured to?

I think we're more concerned with where it's being conjured from; that is, off the body. Conjuring it to a distant plane, the house next door, into the caster's hands, or even just five feet to the target's left are all approximately as effective.

Collin152
2006-12-27, 06:18 PM
Yes, but Im a bit of an... oppertunist wizard. if that thing ends up in my hands and they survive, I have a very poweful link to them. If its sent to a black hole, I dont. Kind of important.

Fizban
2006-12-29, 08:18 AM
I think we're more concerned with where it's being conjured from; that is, off the body. Conjuring it to a distant plane, the house next door, into the caster's hands, or even just five feet to the target's left are all approximately as effective.
:smalleek:
Additional will saves against fear when your entire skin get's teleported 5' above your head and lands on you.


Yes, but Im a bit of an... oppertunist wizard. if that thing ends up in my hands and they survive, I have a very poweful link to them. If its sent to a black hole, I dont. Kind of important.
It get's conjured away, most likely out of existance. Or, if you prefer, it may be conjured to the demi-plane of skin.

Demented
2006-12-29, 07:04 PM
Or perhaps it evokes an intense blast of UV radiation that boils away skin!
(As previously seen in the game Crusader: No Remorse)

"What's that smell?"