Trollkin [PF Race][Crossroads]

[Admiral Squish]

Trollkin
Designed for Crossroads: the New World (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269334)

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs7/i/2005/242/6/7/ogre_by_direnayhan.jpg
A male trollkin under the mask.

Personality: Trollkin are a varied buch, but there are a few traits that they all share. They view themselves as separate from the humans they surround themselves with, separate creatures. And it’s true. They are, inherently, different beings. Some see themselves as superior. Others view themselves as the losers of their long battle with humanity. They all have a certain ruthlessness, a willingness to do whatever it takes to accomplish what they must. This does not make them evil, but this streak can surprise human companions.
Physical Description: Trollkin are very different between males and females, but there are some similarities. Both look, to casual inspection, like normal humans, albeit extreme examples of their respective genders. They’re usually blonde, black, or brown-haired, rarely red. Female trollkin are extremely beautiful, with willowy figures and delicate features. Troll males are thick-bodied, with short, thick necks, broad shoulders and often, large noses. But this appearance is only a mask for their true form beneath, a mask that can no longer be discarded freely.
Relations: Trollkin were once a different race, called hags, ogres, and trolls by various European cultures. But when they found their lives threatened by the ever-extending reach of the Church, they took drastic measures. They underwent rituals to disguise themselves as humans, to hide from the Church’s agents. But in successive generations, the mask becomes harder and harder to remove, the disguise now an integral part of their being. Trollkin live among humans as members of their society, but they never let their true heritage be forgotten, viewing themselves as inherently different. Some view themselves as smarter, as clever deceivers who have outsmarted the simplistic humans. Others view themselves as freaks, refugees from an era of magic now dead, isolated from the humans by heritage. They often view the natives, and their casual acceptance of the magical and strange, with a measure of envy, wishing they could live without hiding.
Alignment: Trollkin range widely in alignments. Many believe their former traditions of hunting humans were in error, that living in harmony with them would have allowed them to prosper. Others see humans as strictly inferior, and that they should cleave with them as quickly as possible. Others simply want to be left alone. But all see humans and themselves as separate.
{table=head]|L|N|C
G|5|10|15
N|5|15|20
E|5|10|15[/table]
Trollkin Lands: Trolls have, ancestrally, lived all across Europe. They lived in small, isolated family groups, generally speaking, and throughout their history have clashed with humankind, some even hunting and eating humans like animals. But the church has drastically reduced their numbers to near extinction, and now the trollkin have no lands of their own, instead living among humans as members of their societies. Many trollkin have remained behind in their ancestral homes all across Europe, but have kept lower profiles, but others fled east to the new world, in hopes of being able to live more freely, away from the monster-hunting agents of the Church. Some have even moved further east to live among the natives, where they can more freely reveal their true natures.
Religion: Trollkin have had a long, bloody history of clashes with the Church. For some, this has soured their view of all religions, and many reject all churches. Others may join other churches of more welcoming sorts. Some may even join dark cults of human sacrifice, seeking to relive the ‘glory days’ when they hunted mankind.
Language: Trollkin speak the languages of whatever human culture they’re living among, though some may be multilingual, bringing with them the cultures of other areas they’ve fled as well.
Names: Trollkin names generally conform to the standards of whatever culture they have adopted, though some may keep a secret clan name, passed down from the days when trolls lived openly.
Adventurers: Trollkin adventurers are relatively common. Most trollkin feel like outsiders to the communities they live among, and this detachment lends itself well to the life of an adventurer.

Females:
+2 dexterity, +2 charisma, -2 constitution Female trollkin are graceful and alluring, but not particularly tough.
Fey Type: Trollkin are fey creatures.
Medium Size: Trollkin are medium creatures, and have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
Normal Speed: Trollkin have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Trollkin can see twice as far as a race with normal vision in conditions of dim light.
Silver Tongued: Female trollkin gain a +2 bonus to diplomacy and bluff checks. In addition, when using diplomacy to shift a creature‘s attitude, they can do so up to three steps instead of two.
Shed the Mask: Once per day plus one additional use per 5 HD, as a move action, a female trollkin can break free from the glamour that makes her look human, revealing her true form. This state lasts for one minute with each use, but the trollkin can end it early if they choose. While this ability is active, the trollkin’s skin and hair pales to snowy white, and appears to glow with an inner light. Her beauty becomes such that those who look upon her find their resolve to attack weakened. The trollkin adds her charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC and as a resistance bonus to saves. While in this state, the trollkin can use suggestion as a spell like ability, with a caster level equal to her HD, at will.
Refugee Culture: Trollkin have, as a group, moved quite a bit, being driven out of their original homes to new lands and even to the new world in some cases. Trollkin can select two cultures at 1st level, representing languages, traditions, and skills picked up from the lands they’ve traveled through, or the lingering relics of ancient troll traditions practiced behind closed doors.


Males:
+2 strength, +2 wisdom, -2 intelligence Male trollkin are strong and sound of mind, but not particularly intelligent.
Fey Type: Trollkin are fey creatures.
Medium Size: Trollkin are medium creatures, and have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
Normal Speed: Trollkin have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Trollkin can see twice as far as a race with normal vision in conditions of dim light.
Rapid Healing: Male trollkin are resilient creatures. Whenever a male trollkin rests, he heals hit point and ability damage at twice the normal rate.
Shed the Mask: Once per day plus one additional use per 5 HD, as a move action, a male trollkin can break free from the glamour that makes him look human, revealing his true form. This state lasts for one minute with each use, but the trollkin can end it early, if they choose. While this ability is active the trollkin‘s body expands, doubling, tripling in size as thick muscle piles on existing muscle, eventually leaving the trollkin looming over human peers. The trollkin’s size increases to large, granting a +2 size bonus to strength and a -2 size penalty to dexterity, a -1 size penalty to AC and a +1 size bonus to CMD and CMB checks. A large trollkin has a reach of ten feet. All worn or carried equipment enlarges with him, but returns to normal size one round after leaving the troll kin’s possession. In addition, a trollkin in this state gains a primary bite attack that dales 1d8 points of damage.
Refugee Culture: Trollkin have, as a group, moved quite a bit, being driven out of their original homes to new lands and even to the new world in some cases. Trollkin can select two cultures at 1st level, representing languages, traditions, and skills picked up from the lands they’ve traveled through, or the lingering relics of ancient troll traditions practiced behind closed doors.

[Admiral Squish]

Troll Culture

Background Skills: Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Intimidate
Background Feats: Bjergtrolde, Ettin, Formori, Hudra, Jotun, Titan
Native Language: Troll
Bonus Languages:

Description Trolls, in their original form, are strange creatures. Males are huge, gray-skinned humanoid brutes, with powerful limbs, large noses, and sharp tusks. The females are willowy, pale-skinned figures, with hair that almost floats around them, and they glow in the darkness. Both males and females have short, naked tails, tipped with tufts of longer hair, much like a cow’s tail.
Clothing Troll females wear fine dresses and jewelry, often somewhat worn or dirtied by their lifestyle. These treasures are usually stolen for them by the males, eager to earn the favor of their family matriarch. The males are too big to fit into human clothes, and often wear crude hides to cover their bodies against the elements, strapping a number of them together to form simple garments. Most common is a sort of fur toga or a loincloth.
Grooming Trolls bathe with relative regularity compared to their human neighbors, usually using streams or pools near their caves. The females bathe about once a week, and the males usually at least once a month, to keep their scent from getting strong enough to warn their prey. Females treasure grooming products from human settlements, things like combs, wigs, or soap.
Psychology Trolls are predatory creatures, a fundamental element of their being that influences their lifestyle in a variety of ways. They are highly focused on their goals, often to the exclusion of other aspects of life. This focus can become obsessive relatively easily, with a troll becoming more and more wrapped up in their goal the longer it eludes them. They also enjoy competition, and the thrill of the hunt.
Life
Arts and Crafts Troll art usually consists of cave paintings or stonework. They often create soapstone statues as toys for the young ones and as learning tools. Some troll families may expand their caves to accommodate more children or more husbands. Children’s chambers may be decorated with pictures of animals or illustrations of troll legends, while the matriarch’s chambers often are covered in illustrations of magical formula and constellations.
Technology and Magic Trolls don’t have much in the way of technology, beyond what they steal or copy from their human neighbors. But troll females have a long history of magical innovation, particularly in the areas of enchantment, illusion, and transmutation. Some say that wizards first learned many of their spells by studying under female trolls.
Love Troll marriages are often arranged by the matriarchs of the two groups. Love is sometimes a factor, but all too often they’re simply arranged to enhance the group’s relations with the other groups. Female trolls are generally affectionate with their husbands and sons, but it’s more akin to the love of a human for their pets than a truly romantic or maternal love.
War Trolls fight often, both with nearby human settlements, and with other troll groups nearby their homes. Often these conflicts are relatively low-key, trading bruises more than lives, but when they get serious, the troll group may call in assistance from the rest of their clan to bring serious force to bear against their enemies.
Death Trolls regard death as part of the natural cycle. When one dies, they are not mourned for their passing, but celebrated for their life, and their accomplishments. Males that have served the family well are regarded highly, but those who failed to serve or serve poorly receive shorter services. Matriarchs have week-long funerals, wheras unmarried females receive honorable funerals, mourning the potential that will no longer be utilized.
Society and Culture Trolls don’t have large-scale cultures. Occasionally a handful of semi-related family groups will gather together for trade or communication, a unit known as a clan, but they typically stay within the family group outside of these occasions. Occasionally an extremely powerful female will rally a number of these clans together to destroy a particularly troublesome town or eliminate a rival group, but these occasions occur only a few times a century.
Leadership Troll females are the default leaders of the family group, being smarter and more skilled with magic than their sons and husbands. Occasionally, the males of a group may rebel against a particularly cruel female leader and put a male warlord in charge. Typically, these groups don’t last very long afterward, as females refuse to be treated as inferior and will use magic to avoid bearing these males children.
Social Structure Each family group is headed by one female troll, the matriarch of the group. The matriarch’s husbands are next in the pecking order. Below them are the female troll children, and below them are the male children.
Family Troll families are made of the matriarch, between one and five husbands, and their children. Female trolls marry males from outside their family group and then leave both groups, establishing their own group. Females may seek out more husbands after the first, but the first is typically in charge of any other husbands. Families are typically large, usually somewhere between 5 and 20 children. Female trolls usually give birth to pairs of children, fraternal twins, though single births or multiple births are hardly uncommon. Female children are comparatively rare, about one in four children will be a female.
Traditions Troll traditions that are held across the entire group are relatively sparse, though each family has their own traditions that they practice. Mostly, the traditions that do span the entire group are things like deference to the older females. Most trolls celebrate the solstices and equinoxes.
Other Races Trolls in ancient times hunted humans for food. Usually, this was for a special occasion or holiday, but the practice was quite widespread. In modern years with the church’s crusade against magic, the trolls have had to stop the practice. Some have taken to hunting with stealth, stealing babies or young children from homes. But most have simply banned the practice, trying to avoid the humans as much as possible, though those that wander into their lands are still fair game.
Religion Troll religion is generally paganistic, revering nature spirits and the yearly cycles. This only serves to inflame the church’s crusade against them. Very few have joined with the monotheistic faiths, surprisingly. Perhaps it’s bad blood between them and the church, or perhaps the trolls simply aren’t interested in change.
History and Folklore Historically, trolls have dwelled in wild places all through Europe, long before the humans began to truly tame the lands. In these years, the trolls were simple hunter-gatherers. When the humans arrived, the trolls eagerly adopted their advanced tools, but the two races clashed, often violently, for thousands of years. The trolls have no written record, but it has been suggested that they used to be much larger.
Troll folklore is mostly regarding particular features of landscape. They say that an oddly-shaped mountain is an ancient, giant troll who fell asleep and became one with the earth. Or perhaps that a great tree in the deepest forests is a troll who became one with the forest. Many legends circulate regarding trolls who became one with various aspects of nature, but nobody can really say if they’re true or not.
Language Troll language is a Germanic language, and incorporates sounds that could easily be taken from German, Yiddish, English, Dutch, Gothic, Norwegian, and Swedish words. Some scholars believe that the troll language is actually the origin of all Germanic languages, but they generally keep this revelation to themselves.
Phrasebook Kindmyk: Literally ‘baby soft’, a derogative term for a human, or an insult for a troll who shows weakness, either mental, physical, or emotional.
Grysmutti: A term for a troll matriarch.
Written Language Trolls never had a written language until humans introduced the concept to them, and from then on, they used Germanic script, with borrowed letters from other Germanic languages to fill in the blanks. The ability to read and write is extremely rare in troll populations, as they have no formal schooling and little need for it.
Names Traditional troll names generally resemble those from German or Scandinavian roots, though the spellings and pronunciation may be unusual.
Cities and Settlements Trolls don’t have any major settlements that are permanent living places for the trolls. It’s said there is an enormous gathering hall high in the alps somewhere, where troll families gather together to celebrate on particularly auspicious days.
Economy Troll communities usually trade goods more than currency, though some build up small hoards of coin taken from nearby communities or intruders into their territory.
Example city The only known troll gathering place, Bargzal, appears, from the outside, to be nothing more than a single large, well-worn cave just above the treeline of the alps. Once you get inside, you find a network of long, straight hallways and looming, carved caverns, many occupied by troll families from all different areas of Europe.
Creating Troll Characters Trolls themselves are not playable, but trollkin who select the ancient troll culture inherit many aspect of the old culture. Some trollkin families have kept the old ways alive, even through generations of hiding among the humans. Some make a point of practicing whatever traditions they can in public, while others keep every aspect carefully confined within the home, out of the public eyes.
Special Options Characters with the troll culture have access to a variety of feats relating to the area their troll ancestors originated from and how they adapted to their home, and can even enter the troll revivalist prestige class.

Feats:

Huldra
Your troll ancestors were forest-dwellers, and you inherited some of their adaptations.
Prerequisites: Trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to hide checks while in forested or overgrown environments, and can move through areas of difficult terrain in forested or overgrown areas at their normal speed without penalty. This does not allow them to move normally through areas magically manipulated to impede movement. Males may look like animate trees, rough-barked and thick-limbed, with moss like hair. Females may have bodies of carved and polished wood, or flowers growing in their hair.

Bjergtrolde
Your troll ancestors dwelled high in the mountains, and you inherited some of their adaptations.
Prerequisites: Trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to hide checks while in natural stone environments, such as mountains or caves, and can move through areas of difficult terrain in natural stony terrain at their normal speed without penalty. This does not allow them to move normally through areas magically manipulated to impede movement. Males may look like animate boulders or golems. Females may resemble marble or porcelain statues.

Ettin
Your troll ancestors had multiple heads, and you inherited a limited form of this adaptation.
Prerequisites: Trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: When making a will save against a mind-affecting spell or ability, you can roll twice and take the higher result. Your partially separated mind allows you to separately resist attempts to influence you.

Formori
Your troll ancestors dwelled on the shore, and you inherited some of their adaptations.
Prerequisites: Trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to 4x your constitution modifier, and swim is considered a class skill for you. Males may have features reminiscent of sharks, fish, or aquatic mammals. Females may develop luminescent scales, or their hair and clothes may float as though underwater at all times.

Jotun
Your troll ancestors dwelled in the distant north, and you inherited some of their adaptations.
Prerequisites: Trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: You gain cold resistance 5. Males may be covered in thick, shaggy fur or a layer of blubber. Females usually present with extremely pale skin or blue skin.

Titan
Your troll ancestors were enormous beings, looming over the landscape, and you’ve inherited a portion of their size.
Prerequisites: trollkin, Troll culture, 1st level only
Benefit: You increase by one size category while shed the mask is active. This means females become large sized, and males become huge-sized. This increase does not allow them to wield larger weapons or increase their reach. This extra increase does not enlarge weapons any further than normal.

Loose Mask
You have greater control over your mask than most.
Prerequisites: Trollkin
Benefit: The duration of your shed the mask ability increases by a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier.

Quick Change
You can quickly shed the mask when needed.
Prerequisites: Trollkin
Benefit: You can activate or deactivate your shed the mask ability as a swift action.

Prestige Class

Troll Revivalist

Prerequisites:
Race: Trollkin
Culture: Ancient Troll

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Extra shed, Hunter of Men +1

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Ancient Blood

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Extra shed, Hunter of Men +2

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Ancient Blood

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Shattered Mask, Hunter of Men +4[/table]
Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 4+int
Skills: Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, Survival, Swim

Extra Shed: At 1st level and 3rd level, a troll revivalist gains an additional daily use of their shed the mask ability.

Hunter of Men: At 1st level, a troll revivalist gains a +1 morale bonus to knowledge, perception, and survival checks, as well as attack and damage rolls, against humans. At 3rd level, this bonus increases to +2, and at 5th level, it increases to +4. These bonuses are the result of special training that the troll revivalist undergoes.

Ancient Blood: At 2nd and 4th level, the troll revivalist’s ancient blood comes to the fore, becoming more and more powerful. The benefit of this changes based on the background of your troll ancestors, reflected by the bonus feat selected from the troll culture. These benefits only take effect while shed the mask is active.
Bjergtrolde: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus to AC and damage reduction 1/adamantine. This natural armor bonus increases to +4 and DR 2/adamantine at 4th level.
Ettin: You decrease the penalty to attack rolls from wielding two weapons by one, and gain two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat. If you already possess two-weapon fighting, you can instead choose any feat that has two-weapon fighting as a prerequisite. At 4th level, the penalty to attack rolls decreases by two, and you gain an additional two-weapon bonus feat.
Formori: You gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed, and a +1 natural armor bonus to AC. This swim speed increases to twice your base land speed at 4th level, and your natural armor bonus increases to +2
Huldra: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus to AC and damage reduction 2/slashing. This natural armor bonus increases to +4 and DR 5/slashing at 4th level.
Jotun: Your cold resistance increases to 10 while shed the mask is active. At 4th level, you become immune to cold.
Titan: Your increase in size from the titan feat allows you to wield larger weapons. All your weapons increase in size to match your new size. At 4th level, your reach increases to match your new size.

Shattered Mask: At 5th level, a troll revivalist achieves full mastery over their mask. They can activate and deactivate their shed the mask ability at will, with no maximum duration.

[LOTRfan]

First of all, I really like this race. Would you mind if I used them (under a different name) in a campaign I'm running later this year?

Just a bit that I'm confused about; you say +1/5 HD. So you start with 1/day as a 1st level creature, and then it increases to 2/day at 5th level and then again at every multiple of five? I think this makes sense, seeing as how it would be 5/day at 20th, which is just one less use compared to the Barbarian's rage ability at the same level.

Also, does Pathfinder have the Shapechanger subtype? If so, you may want to consider giving them that. Mainly because Shifters (which have a similar ability) have the subtype. Actually, speaking of Shifters, they have an interesting mechanic where every racial feat they get increases the duration of their Shift ability by one round. Do you intend on doing something similar for these guys, or is one minute enough in your opinion?

[zabbarot]

Pathfinder Shapeshifter subtype just gives proficiency with natural weapons and any armor in the creatures description. It could be added but I don't really feel like it's necessary.

I like the idea of giving them two cultures, mostly just because I like using a mechanic that I feel like we made up. Their description makes me feel like we'll need to write up a Romani culture.

Found three little typos, spoilered because they don't really matter :P


Alignment: Trollkin range widely in alignements.

Females:
+2 dexterity, +2 charisma, -2 constiution


Males:

Shed the Mask: A large trollkin has a reach of ten feet.. <- double period


One more idea for the setting in general. We might want to add a list of applicable cultures to each Race entry. Basically just write it out the way the language entry is usually done.

[Admiral Squish]

First of all, I really like this race. Would you mind if I used them (under a different name) in a campaign I'm running later this year?

Just a bit that I'm confused about; you say +1/5 HD. So you start with 1/day as a 1st level creature, and then it increases to 2/day at 5th level and then again at every multiple of five? I think this makes sense, seeing as how it would be 5/day at 20th, which is just one less use compared to the Barbarian's rage ability at the same level.

Also, does Pathfinder have the Shapechanger subtype? If so, you may want to consider giving them that. Mainly because Shifters (which have a similar ability) have the subtype. Actually, speaking of Shifters, they have an interesting mechanic where every racial feat they get increases the duration of their Shift ability by one round. Do you intend on doing something similar for these guys, or is one minute enough in your opinion?

Of course, I make them to be used. Go ahead and use 'em, call 'em what you will.

That is the basic idea. I was debating about the total number of uses/day you should get, which is why the +1/5 HD was in parentheses. I clarified the wording a bit, I beleive.

Good point, didn't really think about that. I suppose they are shapeshifters.
As for the +rounds/feat idea, that really just ended up a way to add in a feat tax to the race it seemed. I don't think I'm gonna be able to come up with nearly enough feats to justify something like that. And honestly, one minute is more than long enough for most combats.


Pathfinder Shapeshifter subtype just gives proficiency with natural weapons and any armor in the creatures description. It could be added but I don't really feel like it's necessary.

I like the idea of giving them two cultures, mostly just because I like using a mechanic that I feel like we made up. Their description makes me feel like we'll need to write up a Romani culture.

Found three little typos, spoilered because they don't really matter :P

One more idea for the setting in general. We might want to add a list of applicable cultures to each Race entry. Basically just write it out the way the language entry is usually done.

Might as well add it on, at least it opens up a few options, you know?

I'm glad! I was a bit concerned about the two-cultures thing. Wasn't sure if I was forcing the idea.

Typos fixed, thanks for pointin' em out.

I don't know about applicable cultures. It makes sense, but I think you should be able to pick whatever culture you want, as long as you can justify it. Like, if you really wanted to play a trollkin that had been adopted by the Choctaw or the Iroquois, you should be able to do that.

[SuperDave]

The Trollkin are looking great! As always, your descriptions are excellent, and thoroughly-researched. The crunch is great, too: it looks well-balanced, and I don't think anyone's going to complain about any inequalities between males and females. The ladies might be primarily social-oriented, but their signature ability is highly useful in combat, too.

May I compliment you on your choice of portrait? It's a perfect representation of the Trollkin in my book! He's hairy, almost furry, without being animalistic. He's big and tough, but not stupid - the way he glances off the the side suggests a certain wily-ness, a base cunning that takes foes by surprise. I only wish that there were a portrait of a female Trollkin to go with it. Most of my searches for 'huldra' (a Norwegian female troll) only produced pseudo-erotica of naked women with tails, and most of the images would probably be against the Playground's policies (but I did find a nice non-nudity image of a portrait of a troll and huldra sitting (http://aldhisslass.deviantart.com/art/Troll-and-Huldra-369576590) together).

[Pokonic]

Very nice representation of how I thought of them, at least. I could see plenty of feats branching off the "shed the mask" ability regarding what one could get when they "hulk out" so to speak.

[SuperDave]

Very nice representation of how I thought of them, at least. I could see plenty of feats branching off the "shed the mask" ability regarding what one could get when they "hulk out" so to speak.

Seconded. I'd like to see more racial feats for the Trollkin. Some of them will probably have to be gender-specific, though.

[Admiral Squish]

None of my other races got this much commentary! Awesome stuff.

Honestly, I don't have many ideas regarding feats. There's one idea to grant males fast healing while the mask is shed. There's a 'troll revivalist' idea, for trollkin with the troll culture, that essentially gives you 'human' as a favored enemy.

[zabbarot]

Troll revivalist sounds like a great prestige class :smallwink: like a 3 level racial paragon class

[Admiral Squish]

Troll revivalist sounds like a great prestige class :smallwink: like a 3 level racial paragon class

Interesting idea.

[Pokonic]

Interesting idea.

Seconded. As for what I could see be done with them, chances are, the trollkin are probably the collective decendents from all the big humanoid creatures in europe, and they are a pretty varied bunch.

Actually, a "Troll revivalist" prestige class would be great for this sort of thing. All trollkin can tap into the general magical blood they have, but it takes special effort to go any further.

Some general ideas for stuff to spice them up a little, either feat-wise or by leveling up in some hypothetical PrC:

Another head! Or set of arms! At the very least, most of the scot-irish stuff I have read had several many-head giants wandering around. Also, natural weapons and such.

Woody/rocky exterior. Either or would work well as a decent way to add some stealth bonuses to a possibly not stealthy PC. It works well for either gender, really: Male trolls could either have a "Totally notaEnt protector of woodlands" vibe or a "mossy haired stonyguy" look to them while females could go full maiden-of-the-woods or full on marblelike complexion. In essence, a DR/5/10/whatever that would probably be negated by fire or blunt damage accordingly. Also, some troll-like things have been associated with the sea, so perhaps another option would be to go full sea-person, with females being the typical alluring siren while the males being full-on scaled and shark-y.

[zabbarot]

Oh hey, if a Troll Revivalist class gave the troll natural weapons like Pokonic mentioned the shapeshifter racial tag would suddenly be useful :smalltongue:

A natural thing to give the Revivalist is a boost to the Shed the Mask racial.

[Admiral Squish]

Seconded. As for what I could see be done with them, chances are, the trollkin are probably the collective decendents from all the big humanoid creatures in europe, and they are a pretty varied bunch.

Actually, a "Troll revivalist" prestige class would be great for this sort of thing. All trollkin can tap into the general magical blood they have, but it takes special effort to go any further.

Some general ideas for stuff to spice them up a little, either feat-wise or by leveling up in some hypothetical PrC:

Another head! Or set of arms! At the very least, most of the scot-irish stuff I have read had several many-head giants wandering around. Also, natural weapons and such.

Woody/rocky exterior. Either or would work well as a decent way to add some stealth bonuses to a possibly not stealthy PC. It works well for either gender, really: Male trolls could either have a "Totally notaEnt protector of woodlands" vibe or a "mossy haired stonyguy" look to them while females could go full maiden-of-the-woods or full on marblelike complexion. In essence, a DR/5/10/whatever that would probably be negated by fire or blunt damage accordingly. Also, some troll-like things have been associated with the sea, so perhaps another option would be to go full sea-person, with females being the typical alluring siren while the males being full-on scaled and shark-y.

This is a lot of totally awesome ideas! This will definitely help with creating the troll revivalist class.

Firstly, rather than trollkin being descended from all the races of giant brutes of europe, the inverse is true. All the brute/giant races of europe are descended from trolls. The trollkin disguise isn't the first large-scale transition effort. Troll clans in different environments favor different tactics for survival, and the females can subtly direct the direction their troll children take down the evolutionary ladder with the help of a little magic.

I suppose the first step to determining the full breadth of the abilities the trolls can access is determining exactly which european magical giants/hags/witches we want to include.

Heads and arms... That's a bit of a challenge. I like the idea, but I'm not certain how it would work in-world. If they had an extra head, would the second mind be surpressed while in the mask, or would it be awake, just with no physical head? How would the minds communicate? And with extra limbs, if you spend most of your life without them, wouldn't they be weak and atrophied, or at best, you would be ill-practiced to use them properly in combat?

I could see a whole suite of first-level troll feats, though, to describe various subraces of troll that became trollkin. Forest trolls, stone trolls, sea trolls...
The biggest challenge will be to make things that work for both genders. Though, I suppose if necessary, I could divide the feat into benefits for males and females.


Oh hey, if a Troll Revivalist class gave the troll natural weapons like Pokonic mentioned the shapeshifter racial tag would suddenly be useful :smalltongue:

A natural thing to give the Revivalist is a boost to the Shed the Mask racial.

Well, male trolls gain a bite attack, so it already helps a bit.

But of course. I was thinking bonus uses at fist, third, and possibly fifth, and I'm considering just making it at-will at fifth. Adding in some enhanced abilities to the true form in there somewhere. There's also non-mask benefits, like combat bonuses against humanoids.

[Admiral Squish]

Okay, I finally finished the culture entry for trolls, and I added in 8 trollkin feats. I'm just adding the final touches to the troll revivalist class.

[SuperDave]

Okay, this is seriously, seriously awesome. It feels like an actual culture, lifted straight out of an official source-book. Even the formatting looks great! Well done, bro! Well done!

I really liked the idea of trolls being matriarchal: it only makes sense, if the males have a penalty to intelligence. I liked your description of that troll city in the Alps, too. But I feel like the New World offers wonderful possibilities for Trollkin. Imagine if you will:

The party is called upon by the Boston Port Authority to investigate the strange foreigners which have been passing through Customs lately. They come on ships from different countries, speak different languages, and wear wildly different clothing, but many of them seem to know each other, and they share a certain... resemblance. They arrive by ones and twos, but they only leave the city in wagon trains of twenty or more, and always heading north, towards the mountains of New England.

Man, I really, really like these trolls of yours! Great job! :smallbiggrin:


Edit: The troll culture feats are really great too. There are a lot more of them than I expected, and they're all highly-useful, highly-flavorful, and very well-designed. (Though maybe the prerequiste should be "Trollkin" instead of "troll culture", so that adopted humans (unlikely though they may be) wouldn't have access to them.

[Admiral Squish]

Alright, I finished up the troll revivalist class and posted it, edited the feats so that you have to be a trollkin with the troll culture to take them, and fiddled around a bit with the titan feat. Productive day!

[zabbarot]

I like the revivalist class :smallbiggrin: It's definitely pretty cool. The only thing I might like to see added is something like a fear affect on Shed the Mask, just because I imagine a troll revivalist would be pretty terrifying.

And I really like your culture write up! Good work.

[Admiral Squish]

I like the revivalist class :smallbiggrin: It's definitely pretty cool. The only thing I might like to see added is something like a fear affect on Shed the Mask, just because I imagine a troll revivalist would be pretty terrifying.

And I really like your culture write up! Good work.

I dunno, the class is kinda full up as it is. Where would I put it in?

[Admiral Squish]

I'm gonna answer a couple potentially confusing questions.


You say that for Troll Revivalists, "All your weapons increase in size to match your new size." Does this mean that your weapons grow larger, or that you're simply capable of wielding larger weapons? Because I was under the impression that a Titan Troll's possessions already grow with him when he uses Shed the Mask.

In the titan feat, which I recently edited, you grow an extra size, but your wepons do not enlarge any further than normal, and you are not able to wield larger weapons. This is sort of my attempt to minimize the benefits of the increase in size, thus requiring you to invest levels in the prc to get the full benefits.


I think I'm a little confused about the nature of Troll culture vs. the Trollkin race. Are all trolls eligible for the background feats you listed (Huldra, etc.) or only those with the "Ancient Troll" culture?

Does the Culture writeup in he second post apply to ALL trolls, or only those who live the traditional lifestyle? I'm afraid the entry isn't very clear.

Troll culture describes the traditional culture held by trolls in the olden days when they were still free to do as they wished. Only trollkin with the troll culture are eligible for the background feats.
The culture writeup describes how trolls live, trollkin no longer CAN live in that way. However, trollkin with the troll culture practice certain aspects of troll culture behind closed doors, such as rituals or holidays. They may speak troll among themselves, or practice polygamy, or other relics of the troll lifestyle.


You also state that "Trolls themselves are not playable". Does this mean that Trolls and Trollkin are somehow different from one another? Because the thread never mentions that. I assumed that "troll" was just short for "trollkin".

I beleive I mentioned it in the original entry somewhere, but I'll clarify.
Trolls and trollkin are NOT the same. Trolls themselves still exist out in the wild areas of europe in their natural form. Trollkin are the trolls that have disguised themselves with the mask and become more human in order to live among them.

[GorinichSerpant]

I very much like this race, and think I'd like to use it at some point. I partly skimmed threw the main world thread so forgive me if I missed something, but you seem to be missing the small and trickster kind of troll. I think you could have a feat that makes the character smaller and possibly some other bonus. The purpose of this feat would be to include the wealth of different fey like pixies, goblins, gnomes, leprechauns, kobolds, etc. into the game.

Note: For all those creatures I mentioned, I was thinking about the original myths and folktales as oppose to D&D creatures that have the same name.

However considering how bulky the current male trollkin is, would a "separate" race be more appropriate then a feat? Or can a feat significantly change around
the ability bonuses?

Edit: Is this considered thread necromancy?

[Admiral Squish]

It's kinda necromancish, but I feel I should probably address this anyways.

The trolls aren't supposed to be the source of all the fey creatures of Europe, they're just the source of all the larger-than-human humanoids, such as ogres, trolls, giants, and such. Other fey creatures, like goblins, pixies and such, are separate beings entirely, with their own stats and such. They're not going to be playable.
We're actually discussing developing garden and feral versions of pixies for the new world, as an example.

[GorinichSerpant]

Ah, I see the difference. Hiding from human sight is probably a simpler and better strategy then pretending to be humans for the small fey anyway.

[Stevemantis]

(I know its been said already but) This is a really cool race! I may be overstepping my boundaries but, I feel like Oni could tie into the heritages very well. I think that the whole feel of both the trollkin and Oni like creatures sync up in some way. Maybe some trollkin went far east to escape the church?

[Admiral Squish]

Hmm... I suppose it's possible. The oni do follow the pattern of having large, powerful males and beautiful females. And the current form of oni myths spread from India, a reimagining of rakshasa, which could indicate the general eastward journey of the beings.

On the other hand, the trollkin are supposed to be european, and spreading them that far east would mean they would likely be involved in fusang, at least a bit. Plus, I can't find any link that establishes their presence in the middle east, or china, which they would have had to cross.
And finally, if they went east to flee the church, then they probably wouldn't have had enough time to branch off into a separate subspecies.

[Stevemantis]

It could be that the constant movement could have caused them to develop a hardy nature or contact with the similar being as oni caused some interbreeding, to a very minor level. As for the issue of going to the new world, there were a small amount of eastern people did historically travel to the new world, but they were usually treated terribly by most every other culture.

[zabbarot]

The middle east is actually pretty easy, but the flavor changes in general. Raksasha and oni are more magically inclined. That said djinn and Persian daeva are a perfect link in the middle east. I feel like oni, daeva and djinn have quite a bit in common with each other, but they all seem distinct from the European trollkin. Kind of like the difference between ogres and ogre magi in 3.5, eh?

[BRC]

maybe they went east to flee the Roman Empire.

Or maybe the Trollkin originated on the Steppes of Central Asia, with most of them moving into Europe, but some small groups moving south (To middle east/india) or East.

[zabbarot]

I found a story about Chinese ogres. http://www.worldoftales.com/Asian_folktales/Chinese_Folktale_71.html

[Admiral Squish]

Stevemantis- In the setting the trollkin were made for, the chines have colonized the west coast of america similar to how europeans colonized the east coast. It's pretty cool, check it out!

I suppose djinn could theoretically work, but they always seemed more ephemeral than typical ogres. The legends depict them as hidden on a different plane. Seems like they would be a better fit under the taqriaqsuit than the trollkin.

Rakshasa are depicted as big, terrifying, cannibalistic ogres, but it's only upon a closer reading that I find they have all sorts of magical power, like changing size and shape, illusion, flight, and invisibility. However, the mention of raksha as the chinese ogres gives me an idea. Maybe the raksha and rakshasa are the same, and -sa is a suffix for powerful magic users? Or perhaps the rakshasa had a powerful magic-using civilization, which was then broken and the less-civilized refugees fled north to china, losing the suffix in the journey?

Oni were originally incorporeal ghosts in the legends, but the myths have been modified over time to depict them as somewhat more typical large, man-eating peeps. For some reason the wiki page won't load for me so I'm working off memory, but I don't seem to remember much mystical power being attributed to them, other than typical stuff about evil spirits and bringing bad luck.

[zabbarot]

You are correct about the origins of oni, which is why they seem similar to djinn to me. To be honest they both might be easier to do as creatures of the spirit world instead of types of Trollkin.

Persian daevas are described as giants and monsters, and quite a bit like Rakshasas, but also maybe the old gods that were ousted by the followers of Zoroastrianism. So they probably also make more sense as spirit world inhabitants.

Rakshasas are awesome though, and the chinese ogres are their own thing that seem to stand alone pretty well. I'm thinking they could be related to trollkin. People have traveled the silk road for a very long time so you don't really need to contrive a link.

[Admiral Squish]

The original form of the oni was similar to djinn, but the current form is very ogreish, and as such I think they would work. The chinese ogres work too, so that's two more varieties of potential trollkin.

Now the question is, should we add these options? They're certainly cool, but the trollkin were supposed to be a european thing in the first place. However, the spread we're discussing here and mentioned in the spirit-born thread would broaden the reach of the race beyond the one region. It may require the races by region thing we've had thus far be reworked to allow for such a thing, perhaps moving the races up to the system changes post, next to the classes.

And also, we have the question of what would these types grant? The chinese ogre myth and the oni myths just indicate that males and females are exceptionally strong.