PDA

View Full Version : Don't Open The Door [3.5, Minor Artifact, PEACH]



Amechra
2013-08-04, 03:38 PM
There is a tarnished brass doorknob on the table in front of you. The man offering it to you says that he'll give it to you free, on one condition.

That you bring his children back.

The Weirding Knob is an old brass doorknob attached to a mounting plate, which holds a lock. This item has no exceptional abilities if it isn't attached to a door. However, once the plate is nailed to the door, opening it with the Weirding Knob allows you to walk through and out of any unlocked door in the multiverse. In addition, if you have the proper key or lock-opening tools, you may walk out of locked doors as well.

There is one odd property to this otherwise purely beneficial item: it steals children.

Any creature that has not reached the age of majority for their age that walks through the door does not appear out of any other doors. Instead, precisely one hour and 3 minutes later, a note is slipped under the door that the Weirding Knob is attached to, promising the return of the child if their parents can fulfill its nonsensical ransom demands.

If the demands are not met within a tenday, the child is returned. They may be dead, each bone, piece of viscera, and drop of blood given back over the course of years (and often left on bedsheets and pillows near the door), each part perfectly fresh, but they are given back.

If the demands are met, the child stumbles out of the door on sunset of that day. No magic can compel them to reveal what happened to them on the opposite side of that door; however, children will often come back inflicted with a random disease, with random, nauseating tattoos scribed on their bodies, or some other intrusive and disturbing mark of their... treatment.

There are dozens of Weirding Knobs at large in the world, oftentimes attached to old closets or similarly abandoned doors. They say that there is a key, somewhere far in the south, that can take you to wherever the children go. If this is true, it might be worth it.

Amechra
2013-08-04, 04:17 PM
Oh, and for best effect, listen to this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBPCm25z4I)

Debihuman
2013-08-05, 08:44 AM
There is a tarnished brass doorknob on the table in front of you. The man offering it to you says that he'll give it to you free, on one condition.

That you bring his children back.

The Weirding Knob is an old brass doorknob attached to a mounting plate, which holds a lock. This item has no exceptional abilities if it isn't attached to a door. However, once the plate is nailed to the door, opening it with the Weirding Knob allows you to walk through and out of any unlocked door in the multiverse. In addition, if you have the proper key or lock-opening tools, you may walk out of locked doors as well.

Up to here, the item is fine and well-written. What follows is not about the item but commentary, supposition and how to use the item. That's not how it should be presented.


There is one odd property to this otherwise purely beneficial item: it steals children.

The knob itself doesn't but whatever is behind the door does.


Any creature that has not reached the age of majority for their age that walks through the door does not appear out of any other doors.

First sentence is redundant. It should say: "Any creature that has not yet reached the age of majority who walks through the door does not appear out of any other doors."


Instead, precisely one hour and 3 minutes later, a note is slipped under the door that the Weirding Knob is attached to, promising the return of the child if their parents can fulfill its nonsensical ransom demands.

That really isn't about the knob unless the knob can write notes. I understand your inspiration but keep the focus on the knob and not on what may be lurking behind the door.


If the demands are not met within a tenday, the child is returned. They may be dead, each bone, piece of viscera, and drop of blood given back over the course of years (and often left on bedsheets and pillows near the door), each part perfectly fresh, but they are given back.

Again none of this is exactly about the knob unless it is somehow a serial child killer. Don't make objects into monsters unless you are going to have stats for it. What if your campaign doesn't use "tendays" as a time period?


If the demands are met, the child stumbles out of the door on sunset of that day. No magic can compel them to reveal what happened to them on the opposite side of that door; however, children will often come back inflicted with a random disease, with random, nauseating tattoos scribed on their bodies, or some other intrusive and disturbing mark of their... treatment.

Plot device. Let the DM decide to use this in his or her campaign. Again this isn't about the knob unless it has the ability to do those things itself. In which case you need to stat out the knob's stats and abilities as a psycho child serial killer.


There are dozens of Weirding Knobs at large in the world, oftentimes attached to old closets or similarly abandoned doors. They say that there is a key, somewhere far in the south, that can take you to wherever the children go. If this is true, it might be worth it.

While I love a good mystery; putting it in an artifact doesn't make a lot of sense. The key should be a separate artifact.

Debby

Cheiromancer
2013-08-05, 10:03 AM
What kind of "nonsensical ransom demands" are we talking here?

"Green the savage Tuesday" nonsensical? Or just a bizarre requirement? (e.g. "Burn a dozen blueberry muffins to ashes, and then sweep the ashes through the door with a new broom")

Also, is "any door in the Multiverse" chosen at the time the weirding knob is attached, or is it reset with each passage? How is the other exit determined?

Amechra
2013-08-05, 10:09 AM
To Cheiromancer: The second one for the ransom demands.

It is reset each time you close the door.

To Debihuman: Fine, I'll split it into the two artifacts that it is (and the monster). The doorknob, the key, and What Lurks Beyond.

The intent was that the doorknob was inflicting the stated effects on the door. Perhaps if I make the artifact the door, have the destruction of the door leave the doorknob, and have the doorknob convert any door it's attached to into a proper gate?

I also suck at writing monsters, so I may need to brush up on that before I do anything further...

Cheiromancer
2013-08-05, 10:53 AM
This is a really cool idea.

Saving kids is a great motivator, and the door knob itself is a fine reward, plus a way of getting PC's to a new adventure area. (Although if the destination is random the PC's might hesitate to go through, for fear they couldn't get back should the door be closed. Maybe there is a planescape style 'key' to reactivate the gateway from the other side, and the weirding knob can somehow be made to not reset?)

The ransom demands could be something that only PC's could accomplish, and there is even a built-in deadline so they don't dawdle.

I think that an easy adaptation would be to have some sort of evil ritual that causes the door to stabilize on a particular destination. The ritual would have to be renewed on a regular basis (yearly?) and part of the requirement would be to send one or more children through the door.

I don't think you necessarily have to stat up the key and What Lurks Beyond. Any DM could take what you have and run with it. Although I suppose a sample artifact and WLB would of course be fine.

Debihuman
2013-08-07, 05:51 AM
To Debihuman: Fine, I'll split it into the two artifacts that it is (and the monster). The doorknob, the key, and What Lurks Beyond.

It does seem to make more sense that way.


The intent was that the doorknob was inflicting the stated effects on the door.

Unfortunately, I had no iwhy the doorknob was supposed to function as it did. I got that the doorknob turned any door into a passage to the multiverse (very cool by the way) but why would it need a child or a ransome? Obviously it's a non-intelligent item so the answer is: it wouldn't. It's not like the doorknob was going to write the ransom notes so there was obviously another intelligence involved. What that is I leave to you.


Perhaps if I make the artifact the door, have the destruction of the door leave the doorknob, and have the doorknob convert any door it's attached to into a proper gate?

That works fine too but the door needn't be an artifact, it's pretty clear the doorknob could affect the door.


I also suck at writing monsters, so I may need to brush up on that before I do anything further...

I don't (suck at making monsters that is). If you get a basic Idea of what type of critter you want, I'll be happy to assist.

Things that eat children harken back to "the creature under the bed" or "the big bad wolf" or even Lovecraft -- creatures with tentacles from the Far Realms that use the doorways to find victims. They don't even have to eat their victims right away. They could torture them for pleasure first and then eat them.

The note is handy in that it would sucker adventurers in. After all, the creature writing the note is clearly lawful (it apparently keeps its word and returns the children once the ransom is paid).

It's evil, it's lawful and it has to be big enough to eat a Small child (so the creature is at least Large size). It can read and write so it has to have a decent Intelligence score and it probably has decent physical scores. Maybe it is exiled to the corridors between doorways for some reason and that's why it needs the doorknob.

The best way to make up a monster is to see what it does and then follow up on the how it does it in creation.

Form follows function; that's the easiest way to create monsters. Decide what it does and use the rules and stat block to fit it.

Debby

Rabidmuskrat
2013-08-07, 09:14 AM
The monster is obviously a pseudo-intelligent doorframe that has heard about hostage negotiation, but hasn't quite figured it out.

Cheiromancer
2013-08-07, 10:23 AM
This reminds me of the "Call Forth the Dweller" sample incantation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). I wonder if the Dweller is the one that is stealing kids?

PeacefulOak
2013-08-07, 10:51 AM
What if the artifact is tied to a vestige?

The door acts as functioned, but as an unintended side-effect the very border of the door touches the null-space between the realms, where the vestiges exist.

This would explain the seeming meaninglessness of the request, as well as the markings on the child's body. The vestige that has the need to grab the children is not powerful enough to fight off the other vestiges as they swarm the child. It can protect the child only for 10 days, at which time its energies are drained and it can no longer keep the child whole and sane.

Deepbluediver
2013-08-07, 12:37 PM
This is definitely creepy.

Also, I think you've got a little error here:
Any creature that has not reached the age of majority for their age that walks through the door...
The bolded word should probably be "race" or something similar.

Mithril Leaf
2013-08-07, 01:39 PM
I'd just like to point out this isn't an artifact, it's much more of an SCP (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/). This may or may not be intentional. The framing is certainly similar.

Rizban
2013-08-07, 05:02 PM
I don't (suck at making monsters that is). If you get a basic Idea of what type of critter you want, I'll be happy to assist.

Things that eat children harken back to "the creature under the bed" or "the big bad wolf" or even Lovecraft -- creatures with tentacles from the Far Realms that use the doorways to find victims. They don't even have to eat their victims right away. They could torture them for pleasure first and then eat them.

The note is handy in that it would sucker adventurers in. After all, the creature writing the note is clearly lawful (it apparently keeps its word and returns the children once the ransom is paid).

It's evil, it's lawful and it has to be big enough to eat a Small child (so the creature is at least Large size). It can read and write so it has to have a decent Intelligence score and it probably has decent physical scores. Maybe it is exiled to the corridors between doorways for some reason and that's why it needs the doorknob.

The best way to make up a monster is to see what it does and then follow up on the how it does it in creation.

Form follows function; that's the easiest way to create monsters. Decide what it does and use the rules and stat block to fit it.

DebbyI read this and immediately thought "Binder". The creature should definitely be some sort of vestige bent on returning to the world as more than a mere vestige bound to the soul of another.

Rizban
2013-08-07, 05:57 PM
Dweller on the Threshold

Vestige Level: 5th
Binding DC: 25
Special Requirement: Yes

Little is known about the Dweller on the Threshold beyond its obsession with doors and doorways.

Legend: Little is known of the entity known as the Dweller on the Threshold, though most speculate its origin is beyond the known cosmology of the multiverse. Some sources believe the Dweller to be in some way related to Otiax due to their similar nature and obsession with doorways, but neither vestige will answer questions about the matter.

Special Requirement: The Dweller on the Threshold's symbol must be inscribed on the threshold of a door such that the doorway is within the symbol. The door must be closed before the Dweller can be summoned.

Manifestation: When the Dweller on the Threshold manifests, the door within his symbol creaks slowly open. Brackish fog drifts through the door toward you and several foul tentacles curl around the doorway, as if caressing the doorposts. The thick fog obscures any other view of the vestige. When the Dweller on the Threshold speaks, it does so in several voices simultaneously that seem to emanate from different locations as if speaking through multiple mouths. The Dweller will discuss nothing beyond doors or doorways. If the binder mentions anything that doesn't involve doors, the Dweller responds with a cutting insult, often about something the binder thought was secret.

Sign: When bound to the Dweller on the Threshold, your voice has a faint echoing quality to it as if two people were speaking.

Influence: The Dweller on the Threshold's motives are unknown, but its obsession is all too clear. When under the influence of the Dweller, you are compelled to stop to examine all doors, portals, and other entrances you encounter. If prevented from doing so, you become agitated and nervous. This emotional state remains until you have a few minutes to examine the doorway in detail or can no longer see it. Further, you are compelled to learn all you can about all entryways, asking anyone nearby for any information they have about the door's nature, history, and purpose.

Granted Abilities: The Dweller on the Threshold reveals secrets, opens passages, and attacks your foes.

Secrets of the Door: You gain a bonus equal to your effective binder level on all Knowledge and Gather Information checks concerning doors, portals, and other entrances. In addition, a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1), you can use the divination spell, provided the subject of the spell is a door, portal, or other entrance. You can not use this ability if you do not manifest the Dweller on the Threshold's sign.

Tentacle Whip: You can open a small portal in the palm of your hand through which a tentacle of the Dweller can temporarily emerge. You can make a melee attack with the tentacle against an opponent up to 10 feet away (as though you were using a reach weapon). This attack deals 2d4 points of bludgeoning damage, but you do not add your Strength bonus to the damage. If your base attack bonus is high enough, you might be entitled to make additional tentacle whip attacks each round when you make a full attack. You can also make attacks of opportunity with your tentacle whip.
If you are within 5 feet of a door, portal, or other entrance, the damage increases to 2d6+2.

Open/Close Portal: At will as a swift action, you can open or close a door as though using the open/close spell. This ability has a range of 10 feet per effective binder level you possess.

Dimension Door: As a standard action, you can use dimension door as the spell; however, you can not take any other creatures with you. This ability has a range of 10 feet per effective binder level you possess. You can not use this ability if you do not manifest the Dweller on the Threshold's sign. Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds.

Debihuman
2013-08-07, 06:17 PM
Tentacles always scream Lovecraft and Far Realms to me. It definitely works as a binder better than as an artifact.

I would think the vestige would require the binder to sacrifice a child to it when summoned. It's pretty gruesome.

Debby

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 07:57 PM
You left out the odd fascination with Children.

Personally? I really like this type of brew. I can see the a couple games being based around the door knob itself and what mystery of what lies beyond it, a cult dedicated to the Dweller offering the occasional child sacrifice to it, hunting for other door knobs and preventing the less than benevolent from using it, and other such story lines. :smallsmile:

EDIT: My goodness this has more potential than I gave it credit for. Since the item does not specify that the user selects the where (or when), it can be used to send that person into a situation that they might not favor. Just off the top of my head? Enjoy your trip into the door frame of a ship floating around in Wildspace with it's helm destroyed, life support systems failing and a number of zombies roaming around hungering for flesh... Which reminds me! The Zombie template sucks and therefore needs some improvements :smallannoyed:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 08:17 PM
I intentionally left out the issue of children for the vestige. After all, a vestige wants people to bind with it. I figure the entity isn't stupid, so it would hide that aspect from binders.

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 08:25 PM
I intentionally left out the issue of children for the vestige. After all, a vestige wants people to bind with it. I figure the entity isn't stupid, so it would hide that aspect from binders.

Make it a knowledge check or something? Besides, I think a Binder worth his salt would ask the question of "Why is it only interested in doors?". Heck, even implementing a small completely overlook-able thing like "You're voice is becomes more beckoning to children" or "You find yourself more interested in the young" or something like that. It doesn't have to be bluntly put out there, just enough information that it can be overlooked and neglected entirely. :smallbiggrin:

God, I love this artifact! :smallbiggrin:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 08:49 PM
Make it a knowledge check or something? Besides, I think a Binder worth his salt would ask the question of "Why is it only interested in doors?". Heck, even implementing a small completely overlook-able thing like "You're voice is becomes more beckoning to children" or "You find yourself more interested in the young" or something like that. It doesn't have to be bluntly put out there, just enough information that it can be overlooked and neglected entirely. :smallbiggrin:

God, I love this artifact! :smallbiggrin:

That just sounds like it's sign is pedophilia...

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 09:08 PM
That just sounds like it's sign is pedophilia...

It does indeed. Not intended, but if you talk about children as objects of attraction, it will most likely sound as such so I plead to you: Get your mind out of the gutter. :smalltongue:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 10:43 PM
Like I said, I was making something which is mysterious, a bit quirky, and doing its best to hide its evil nature. Just because the vestige doesn't mention children doesn't mean that it isn't hungry.

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 10:56 PM
Like I said, I was making something which is mysterious, a bit quirky, and doing its best to hide its evil nature. Just because the vestige doesn't mention children doesn't mean that it isn't hungry.

This is indeed true. I'd also like to add that the Dweller is also searching for the cure for the common cold, and how to end world hunger as well, but it doesn't mention that. :smalltongue:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 11:14 PM
Well, yes, obviously. He has, of course, read A Modest Proposal.

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 11:17 PM
Well, yes, obviously. He has, of course, read A Modest Proposal.

How... How do I like comments on this site? :smalltongue:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 11:24 PM
How... How do I like comments on this site? :smalltongue:Oh, it's quite easy, really. Just click one of the homebrew links in my sig and read/comment. :smallwink:

Arcanist
2013-08-07, 11:29 PM
Oh, it's quite easy, really. Just click one of the homebrew links in my sig and read/comment. :smallwink:

You, I like :smallamused:

Rizban
2013-08-07, 11:56 PM
You, I like :smallamused:

And you have just made my night at a particularly difficult time. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Arcanist
2013-08-08, 12:25 AM
And you have just made my night at a particularly difficult time. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Oh, I try :smalltongue:

Rizban
2013-08-09, 03:37 PM
We should get this thing written up as an Elder Evil.

Arcanist
2013-08-09, 05:06 PM
We should get this thing written up as an Elder Evil.

Elder Evil Aspect, because I'd rather keep this entity as a Vestige of sorts.

Perhaps over time the boundaries of the Transitive planes weaken opening gates and portals across the prime which drag people into them to be converted into... Something... Portalkin? or something.

Rizban
2013-08-10, 10:46 AM
Elder Evil Aspect, because I'd rather keep this entity as a Vestige of sorts.

Perhaps over time the boundaries of the Transitive planes weaken opening gates and portals across the prime which drag people into them to be converted into... Something... Portalkin? or something.

That sounds... auspicious. Each time the doorknob(s) are used for travel, it weakens the borders of reality just slightly between the two locations it connects. Ultimate goal of the EE is to forge permanent connections between all reality and have it collapse again into a singularity from which a new multiverse can be born, crafted in its own image?

Edit: This, of course, ties in with the children aspect rather well. What are the two best ways to lure people into using the artifact(s)? (1) Steal their children. (2) Give them unlimited access to potential wealth. When the man described in the first post asks for the players' help, that just opens up the can of worms. Now, the question is this: Is that man an agent of the DotT or just an unwitting victim?

Arcanist
2013-08-10, 11:46 PM
That sounds... auspicious. Each time the doorknob(s) are used for travel, it weakens the borders of reality just slightly between the two locations it connects. Ultimate goal of the EE is to forge permanent connections between all reality and have it collapse again into a singularity from which a new multiverse can be born, crafted in its own image?

Maybe make the Doorknob, the Doorknob stolen from a door in Sigil or something like that? And have it's ultimate goal just that, merging reality together into one singularity for it to rule over.


Edit: This, of course, ties in with the children aspect rather well. What are the two best ways to lure people into using the artifact(s)? (1) Steal their children. (2) Give them unlimited access to potential wealth. When the man described in the first post asks for the players' help, that just opens up the can of worms. Now, the question is this: Is that man an agent of the DotT or just an unwitting victim?

I think that a campaign based around this creature would start fairly small. One child goes missing and than it expands from there on and so on and so forth gaining more and more children unless stopped and eventually adults start going missing until everyone is taken into a world beyond the Doors. Maybe the Doorknob opens a portal to a dimensional shortcut that takes you where you want to go... Only if the Dweller allows it though :smallamused:

Rizban
2013-08-11, 12:11 AM
I want this game...

Hanuman
2013-08-11, 12:44 AM
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/article/989/989150/coraline-2-disc-collectors-edition-20090601062632481-000.jpg

Erik Vale
2013-08-11, 04:31 AM
Whilst I might be a little late to be posting this, it sounds a bit more like fey than abberation/tentacle/far realm monstrosity.

The Fey kinda have doors/gateways and weird as hell but all powerful rules with a otherwise chaotic>insane as their stichk. And they love to make deals [albiet, often for non-tangibles other than your soul, that's for demons and devils].


Anyhow, carry on.

Arcanist
2013-08-11, 04:43 AM
I want this game...

I know that feel bro :smallfrown: ... Wanna make it with me? Or for me? Or I make it? Hell, I don't care it does seem like fun :smalltongue:


*snip*

You stop that right now! :smalltongue:

Network
2013-08-11, 01:32 PM
There is a tarnished brass doorknob on the table in front of you. The man offering it to you says that he'll give it to you free, on one condition.

That you bring his children back.

The Weirding Knob is an old brass doorknob attached to a mounting plate, which holds a lock. This item has no exceptional abilities if it isn't attached to a door. However, once the plate is nailed to the door, opening it with the Weirding Knob allows you to walk through and out of any unlocked door in the multiverse. In addition, if you have the proper key or lock-opening tools, you may walk out of locked doors as well.

There is one odd property to this otherwise purely beneficial item: it steals children.

Any creature that has not reached the age of majority for their age that walks through the door does not appear out of any other doors. Instead, precisely one hour and 3 minutes later, a note is slipped under the door that the Weirding Knob is attached to, promising the return of the child if their parents can fulfill its nonsensical ransom demands.

If the demands are not met within a tenday, the child is returned. They may be dead, each bone, piece of viscera, and drop of blood given back over the course of years (and often left on bedsheets and pillows near the door), each part perfectly fresh, but they are given back.

If the demands are met, the child stumbles out of the door on sunset of that day. No magic can compel them to reveal what happened to them on the opposite side of that door; however, children will often come back inflicted with a random disease, with random, nauseating tattoos scribed on their bodies, or some other intrusive and disturbing mark of their... treatment.

There are dozens of Weirding Knobs at large in the world, oftentimes attached to old closets or similarly abandoned doors. They say that there is a key, somewhere far in the south, that can take you to wherever the children go. If this is true, it might be worth it.
Looks like a wonderful addition to any horror campaign, but I have some questions :
-The wording implies that, even if tthe ransom demand is not meet, the child may return alive, right?
-No magic can compel the childs to reveal what happened. What about natural means? What would a caster of Mindrape or Programmed Amnesia learn from the child's memory?

Amechra
2013-08-11, 01:53 PM
- They'll get returned. In pieces.

I tend to find that people aren't alive when each of their organs are handed to you separately.

- Natural means... I'd say no, because they just went through overwhelming trauma. I meant the whole "cannot be magically compelled to talk about it" thing was kinda meant to imply that, to that child, being ordered to talk about what happened to them is equivalent to being told to kill yourself.

Mind Rape or Programmed Amnesia... Both would let you access the memories.

Also, one of the influences for this thing. (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1020)

Network
2013-08-11, 03:57 PM
- They'll get returned. In pieces.

I tend to find that people aren't alive when each of their organs are handed to you separately.
Read the wording :

If the demands are not met within a tenday, the child is returned. They may be dead, each bone, piece of viscera, and drop of blood given back over the course of years (and often left on bedsheets and pillows near the door), each part perfectly fresh, but they are given back.
The use of may imply a possibility, or even an uncertainty. Of course, my point isn't that the childs should survive or that it is a common occurence, but I wanted to make sure it was intended.

Debihuman
2013-08-11, 04:35 PM
I'm not opposed to eviscerating children if it moves the plot but in this case, having the children disappear only to return differently is another possibility.

You can age them as time may flow more quickly where they went. You can give them any number of templates. This could even be where Eberron's changelings originate and the man could be a doppelganger (working in cahoots with the Dweller on the Threshold).

Debby

Amechra
2013-08-11, 04:54 PM
That "may be dead" should be read "Sure, they're dead".

It's a colloquial expression.

And really, its meant as a "this is why you have a time constraint" thing.

Heck, you want a quick extra idea? You could have children not rescued or ransomed in 10 days come back... but not have it be them in their skins.

Hanuman
2013-08-12, 10:01 PM
You stop that right now! :smalltongue:

Labyrinth (1980's)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6b/Labyrinth_ver2.jpg/215px-Labyrinth_ver2.jpg

Dr.Who Chrismas (Housekeeper)
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/24/article-1324727853945-0F4465DD00000578-960622_636x377.jpg

Poltergeist2
http://showtimeshowdown.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/poltergeist-2-610x250.jpg

Forgotten (2004)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYdiGm7im1I

Jumanji
https://lh3.ggpht.com/_v1nyF-OLGLU/THLOR8rqjUI/AAAAAAAAAoM/DPHEy-P29Ks/s400/blog-jumanji.jpg

Spirited Away
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjYxMDcyMzIzNl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNDg2MDU3._V1_S Y317_CR5,0,214,317_.jpg

Changeling (2008)
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-Jt-FiYKfEr4/TnJeKSshR8I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/PFEbn-CZMFk/s592/2008_Changeling.jpg

And, finally one that's not got the same... mystery for children disappearing, but I thought I'd point it out because I thought it was well done:

Lovely Bones
http://screencrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/The-Lovely-Bones-Intl-Poster-10-12-09-kc1.jpg


I can't help but feel I missed a whole bunch.

Debihuman
2013-08-13, 06:20 PM
That "may be dead" should be read "Sure, they're dead".

It's a colloquial expression.

Not one that I'm familiar with in that case. Too bad you're stuck on the evisceration of kids, because killing them is so overused and doesn't make for decent plots later. Meh.

Debby

Amechra
2013-08-13, 09:48 PM
Well, the idea of a ransom is that you don't get the person back afterwards.

Seriously, though, that line could be done away with. What's important is that if you comply with the demands (or bust in and take the kids back like big damn heroes), the kids will be fine. If you don't pay it, though, your kid won't be fine.

It could be, like in my example, getting back the remains of the kid piecewise.

You could get a perfect jade statue of your child, perpetually crying.

You could get a beautifully bound book containing your child's entire life story, down the most minute details, ending with the words "And then I felt nothing."

You could just... not get anything back at all?

You want the child coming back, but with a demonic passenger or something? You get that if you pay the ransom.

If you don't pay the ransom (or punch the monster in the face), the most you'll get is an assurance that you will never see your child again.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 08:58 AM
Well, the idea of a ransom is that you don't get the person back afterwards.

No, the idea of the ransom is to get what you want. If the ransom isn't paid, you aren't getting what you want. Holding a hostage is to ensure that. However, holding a hostage is no guarantee.

What if the parents were evil and wanted the kid dead anyway? Not only wouldn't they pay the ransom, but they'd be getting what they want for no trouble at all and could even pretend that their loss mattered.


Seriously, though, that line could be done away with. What's important is that if you comply with the demands (or bust in and take the kids back like big damn heroes), the kids will be fine. If you don't pay it, though, your kid won't be fine.

First, the kid is probably the NPC's kid not one of the heroes' kid. The heroes don't have as much a vested interested in getting the kid back as the parents have.

Second, if the parents can't afford the ransom, how can they afford to hire the PCs to get their kid back?

Third, don't expect every adventuring party to do things just because it's a "good" thing to do. There should be some reward in a successful rescue -- especially if it's going to be time consuming and difficult. I dislike railroading PCs, which is what this does so far.

Fourth, you neglected what the ransom is. Up to now, I've been assuming it is a monetary value. If that's the case, it's a really bad premise. If you are playing in a typical Medieval setting, child mortality is already high. Unless this creature is only going after the heir apparent whose family can afford a ransom, going after poor families is not cost effective. Don't assume the parents won't sacrifice one of their own children either. Context matters. In the Mayor of Casterbridge, the title character auctions off his wife and and baby daughter at a country fair for the equivalent of 5 gold pieces. Granted, he's down on his luck and regrets it afterwards. Still, if that's the going price....

We still don't know why it is taking children, what it needs them for, and how it chooses the children or even what the ransom is (and it could vary depending on the child's circumstances).


You could get a perfect jade statue of your child, perpetually crying.

You could get a beautifully bound book containing your child's entire life story, down the most minute details, ending with the words "And then I felt nothing."

You could just... not get anything back at all?

You want the child coming back, but with a demonic passenger or something? You get that if you pay the ransom.

If you don't pay the ransom (or punch the monster in the face), the most you'll get is an assurance that you will never see your child again.

All interesting ideas but that doesn't explain the creature taking the child in the first place and why it needs or wants a ransom.

Arcanist
2013-08-14, 09:12 AM
No, the idea of the ransom is to get what you want. If the ransom isn't paid, you aren't getting what you want. Holding a hostage is to ensure that. However, holding a hostage is no guarantee.

I'd like to point out that no professional grade kidnapper would suggest that there is any 100% chance for the victim to get restored the object of their desire. That is why most kidnapping letters are along the lines of "If you ever want to see [insert item]."

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 11:12 AM
I'd like to point out that no professional grade kidnapper would suggest that there is any 100% chance for the victim to get restored the object of their desire. That is why most kidnapping letters are along the lines of "If you ever want to see [insert item]."

I'm still trying to figure out why the entity wants money. If this were a Humanoid kidnapper, monetary gain makes a little sense but why not only target wealthy victims in stead of random ones?

Debby

Network
2013-08-14, 12:33 PM
It doesn't have to be money. The artifact says ''nonsensical ransom demand'', which may be anything from making a cake to robbing a bank. If the demands are similar enough to those of scp-1020, then it will probably include things like ''burn your house'', ''kill the king'', etc.

Arcanist
2013-08-14, 12:51 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why the entity wants money. If this were a Humanoid kidnapper, monetary gain makes a little sense but why not only target wealthy victims in stead of random ones?

Debby

It doesn't have to be money. The artifact says ''nonsensical ransom demand'', which may be anything from making a cake to robbing a bank. If the demands are similar enough to those of scp-1020, then it will probably include things like ''burn your house'', ''kill the king'', etc.

This. It appears the dweller just wants to sow fear and obedience. If it had a goal, it would ask for something more consistent, instead of just random actions :smalltongue:

Amechra
2013-08-14, 01:36 PM
The ransom demand could be "fashion a hat out of newspapers and shout your name backwards three times in front of the door while wearing it."

It could be "do something nice for your neighbor."

It could be "eat your own arm in front of the door."

Debihuman, you're apparently operating off the assumption that this thing has normal human desires and thought processes. It could just kidnap children because that is what it does.

Birds fly, fish swim, and brother, I kidnap children that pass through that door.

Rizban
2013-08-14, 01:41 PM
Birds fly, fish swim, and brother, I kidnap children that pass through that door.This actually made me laugh pretty hard just now. It seems perfectly sensible to me.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 03:39 PM
It doesn't have to be money. The artifact says ''nonsensical ransom demand'', which may be anything from making a cake to robbing a bank.

Explain then why any reasonable person would believe that the ransom note is legitimate. So you bake a cake and then?


If the demands are similar enough to those of scp-1020, then it will probably include things like ''burn your house'', ''kill the king'', etc.

If the act is worse than the actual kidnapping, such as killing a king, then why do it? Esp. if there is no guarantee of recovery. "Meeting the demands of a letter produced by SCP-1020 invariably results in the return of the victim within 24 hours to their place of disappearance or another nearby safe location, unharmed and with no memory of the time they were gone."

Is this the same?

As long as PCs aren't being railroaded, I don't have a problem.

Debby

Rizban
2013-08-14, 03:43 PM
Explain then why any reasonable person would believe that the ransom note is legitimate. So you bake a cake and then?



If the act is worse than the actual kidnapping, such as killing a king, then why do it? Esp. if there is no guarantee of recovery. "Meeting the demands of a letter produced by SCP-1020 invariably results in the return of the victim within 24 hours to their place of disappearance or another nearby safe location, unharmed and with no memory of the time they were gone."

Is this the same?

Debby

What's more important to a distraught mother, the life of her child or keeping her dignity?

Well, yes, of course. The entity follows it's own rules. It returns the child essentially unharmed after the demands are met. they may still have some sort of indelible mark showing that they were taken, but they're not actually harmed.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 04:05 PM
What's more important to a distraught mother, the life of her child or keeping her dignity?

Well, yes, of course. The entity follows it's own rules. It returns the child essentially unharmed after the demands are met. they may still have some sort of indelible mark showing that they were taken, but they're not actually harmed.

First it depends on the mother. Not all mothers are interested in their kid's well-being or even life. Evil stepmothers, psychotics, child abusers, etc. might not by all that sympathetic to their child's plight. [Did you know that 50% of all child murders are committed by their mothers? Considering that women commit less than 13% of all violent crime, that's pretty creepy.]

Second. If the entity is known for not returning the children intact anyway, the demands will likely not be met.

Third, If the mother can't pay, then she will need someone to do it for her. The question then becomes why would anyone agree to that if they do not think the entity will return the child intact? Sacrificing a king (or any person) for a child isn't a good act either.

Fourth, rather than paying the ransom, the PCs may decide to try to rescue the child. Yeah, that's where I'd be. :smallamused:

Debby

Amechra
2013-08-14, 04:14 PM
Have you considered that it doesn't actually care that it's demands are met?

Maybe it just likes messing with people, and giving back its victims is just part of the game?

Rizban
2013-08-14, 04:16 PM
And all of that sounds like decent starts to plot hooks, but none of it has any bearing on the entity itself. I don't see the point you're trying to make.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 04:25 PM
Well, the fluff in the original post should carry over to the entity since that's what the OP seemed to want. I want to see how best to integrate that.

The doorways could just all lead to Sigil and the doorknobs could just be magical items created by the entity. Honestly, dragons collect treasure. If these just collected children (as it can't have any of its own or because it wants to use the children for some reason, that would be sufficient but the fact it leaves ransom notes is just weird).


Debby

Rizban
2013-08-14, 04:30 PM
It seems like you're trying to define the entity based on the reaction of the victims rather than the other way around. The reaction of the victims should be based on how the entity behaves.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 04:34 PM
Well the entity was defined as kidnapping children and leaving ransom notes but doesn't say what the entity wants or why and that's what I was getting at.

here is the original post:

[quot]Any creature that has not reached the age of majority for their age that walks through the door does not appear out of any other doors. Instead, precisely one hour and 3 minutes later, a note is slipped under the door that the Weirding Knob is attached to, promising the return of the child if their parents can fulfill its nonsensical ransom demands.[/quote]

Why an entity has a reason to take children and then give them back for nonsensical ransom demands just seems kinda silly.



If the demands are not met within a tenday, the child is returned. So the child is returned.


They may be dead, each bone, piece of viscera, and drop of blood given back over the course of years (and often left on bedsheets and pillows near the door), each part perfectly fresh, but they are given back.

LIke I said if the demands are made, the children "may" be dead or there could be other options. This is information about the entity not about the children or the parents. I just was trying to figure out "why" some thing like this would exist and what it wants from the children.


If the demands are met, the child stumbles out of the door on sunset of that day. No magic can compel them to reveal what happened to them on the opposite side of that door; however, children will often come back inflicted with a random disease, with random, nauseating tattoos scribed on their bodies, or some other intrusive and disturbing mark of their... treatment.

So the question is: does the entity do this or something else and why?

Debby

Rizban
2013-08-14, 04:48 PM
Why can't it do that?

Have you considered that its only motivation might be to get people to use the artifact(s)? The child stealing might just be a game that it plays to manipulate people into doing what it wants. Even the little, nonsensical demands might in some way further some obscure agenda, perhaps even being individual steps in an extremely complex summoning ritual designed to open a portal to the Far Realms or something.

Debihuman
2013-08-14, 07:16 PM
Why can't it do that?

Have you considered that its only motivation might be to get people to use the artifact(s)? The child stealing might just be a game that it plays to manipulate people into doing what it wants. Even the little, nonsensical demands might in some way further some obscure agenda, perhaps even being individual steps in an extremely complex summoning ritual designed to open a portal to the Far Realms or something.

Possibly. It would be nice to see it all put together a bit better. Not complaining just confused how to run something like this. Of course, this could work in with the awakened stuffed animals I have...goofy as it may be.

Debby

Rizban
2013-08-14, 07:56 PM
That's why I suggested a full write up as an Elder Evil. Would be glad to help with that, but I'm not where I could do the whole thing myself at the moment. Otherwise, I would just write it up. :smalltongue:

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 01:12 AM
That's why I suggested a full write up as an Elder Evil. Would be glad to help with that, but I'm not where I could do the whole thing myself at the moment. Otherwise, I would just write it up. :smalltongue:

I'm still thinking about what the danged creatures signs would be. :smallsigh:

Seriously, how in the name of Mystra's blue tit would you define something for this? I'd imagine something like this being very subtle and it's machinations not being apparent until the very end. Unlike with a lot of Elder Evils which are very boot through the door, up your butt and around the corner... Seriously, how MORE obvious can Atropus be? For christ sake, I'd at least like the damned thing to subtle to fall in lines with the concept that "the end will not be met with a thunderous boom, but with a small whisper followed by screams of terror..."

Perhaps a series of disappearances spanning years in distance from each other? With little to no explanation. Eventually entire towns vanish, followed by cities, nations, eventually leaving the Heroes (however many left there might be) alone on a desolate plane. No Animals, no people, nothing. Just solitude. Where did the people go? Guess you've got to wait and find out... All of this can be avoided at any point in the campaign leaving further to the mystery of "What would have happened?"

Something I find disappointing with standard Elder Evils is that there is no slow movement towards that ultimate end, however with the Dweller there has to be a certain level of slow progression towards it all. A crawling chaos of sorts? I'd imagine the first encounter would be in the PC's youth and it slowly progresses from that point until the end of their lives or at least at an older age for longer lived species.

Imagine if this sort of thing took place in a setting like Ravenloft where the Elder Evil provides an escape from the plane, however it is met with fear and horror.

Rizban
2013-08-15, 01:17 AM
Perhaps a series of disappearances spanning years in distance from each other? With little to no explanation. Eventually entire towns vanish, followed by cities, nations, eventually leaving the Heroes (however many left there might be) alone on a desolate plane. No Animals, no people, nothing. Just solitude. Where did the people go?This combined with random permanent planar gates opening across the multiverse with no apparent way to close them. It could end up very much being like the movie I Am Legend, minus the zombies... There could, of course, be things that leak in from the Far Realms, not to mention the random planar denizens that are out of place in other planes.

Ha! For that matter, the Blood War could spill over into Celestia and other realms! It would be utter chaos across he multiverse, and the players would have little to no idea there even was an Elder Evil bent on destroying reality.

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 01:29 AM
This combined with random permanent planar gates opening across the multiverse with no apparent way to close them. It could end up very much being like the movie I Am Legend, minus the zombies... There could, of course, be things that leak in from the Far Realms, not to mention the random planar denizens that are out of place in other planes.

Ha! For that matter, the Blood War could spill over into Celestia and other realms! It would be utter chaos across he multiverse, and the players would have little to no idea there even was an Elder Evil bent on destroying reality.

How familiar are you with the Planescape "rule of 3" statement? 3 sets of planes (Outer, Inner, Material), and 3 sets of transitive planes (Ethereal, Astral, Ordial(?)). I'm not sure if this should allow for creatures to bleed into the world, but should only take them from the world.

Creatures becoming enslaved across the nine hells before their times, people burned by the flames of the elemental plane of fire, smothered by the elemental plane of earth, whatever. Nobody knows what happens to these people, however they are simply gone. Scattered across the planes to parts unknown...

Rizban
2013-08-15, 01:39 AM
I'm not really that familiar with planescape, though I have a bit of knowledge of Sigil.

I was thinking that one of the later signs would be literally turning the entire multiverse into something akin to Sigil, only with more obvious open doorways.

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 01:54 AM
I'm not really that familiar with planescape, though I have a bit of knowledge of Sigil.

I was thinking that one of the later signs would be literally turning the entire multiverse into something akin to Sigil, only with more obvious open doorways.

The problem with that, is that it isn't really that scary. Sure it is change, but that stops being scary once you realize it is here to stay. If anything, the PCs would be totally down for Super-Duper D&D. Hell, in Eberron, they might set up railroad systems that lead into portals to go across the multiverse on a train track... That actually sounds really cool though... :smallconfused:

... Why don't we make that a campaign setting!? :smallbiggrin:

Rizban
2013-08-15, 02:11 AM
The problem with that, is that it isn't really that scary. Sure it is change, but that stops being scary once you realize it is here to stay. If anything, the PCs would be totally down for Super-Duper D&D. Hell, in Eberron, they might set up railroad systems that lead into portals to go across the multiverse on a train track... That actually sounds really cool though... :smallconfused:

... Why don't we make that a campaign setting!? :smallbiggrin:
And children aren't allowed to ride the trains, because they all disappear the moment they travel through one of the portals.

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 02:20 AM
And children aren't allowed to ride the trains, because they all disappear the moment they travel through one of the portals.

I'd like to point out, that such a scenario can be rendered entirely moot by a sign that says "You must be at least this age category to ride the train". Having said that, it might be conceivable to make such a thing frightening possible if you work it more into not knowing what is actually caused the anomaly. First a child disappears from his family after getting up in the night to get a glass of water or something. Then an entire town's worth of children vanish either suddenly (a trip through a mountain tunnel) or slowly (same as the first child, but on a massive scale and over several nights).

I think the children that get returned (after completion of task) should be branded with the mark of the dweller or something and the children with parents that don't perform the task just don't get the kid back at all. If the Parents complete the task, the Dwellers agenda gets forwarded, however if the parents don't complete the task, it gets a new slave or food or minion or whatever. Win-Win :smallbiggrin:

Rizban
2013-08-15, 02:23 AM
Another possibility is an entire town could be transported to an alternate plane, perhaps with the PCs inside. The children, of course, vanish. One by one, the families receive ransom notes which seem to indicate that some powerful native on that plane is responsible...

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 02:27 AM
Another possibility is an entire town could be transported to an alternate plane, perhaps with the PCs inside. The children, of course, vanish. One by one, the families receive ransom notes which seem to indicate that some powerful native on that plane is responsible...

Are you basing this on the song that Amechra posted? :smallconfused:

Rizban
2013-08-15, 02:30 AM
No... I missed that song...

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 02:40 AM
No... I missed that song...

OH! ... Well... I feel silly now. Here it is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBPCm25z4I). It's not that bad of a song and video. Little hard to here any form of lyrics, but still good overall.

Anyway, if the inhabitants are taken off into another plane entirely, why would the Dweller even bother giving them a ransom? Why not just take all the children at once and send everyone respective ransoms. Everyone gets suspicious of each other and the PCs have got to find out who or what did it and manage to rescue the children. :smallsmile:

Rizban
2013-08-15, 02:50 AM
Well, I was thinking something along the lines of there being a gaping tear in reality where the town was...

Amechra
2013-08-15, 06:07 AM
For the Elder Evil, a very obvious sign would be...

Doors To Nowhere

As the Dweller Beyond The Threshold grows in power, the reach of its theft expands, until the very act of passing through a doorway may mean disappearing forever.

Basically, as the sign increases, the category of creatures that it "steals" expands. As the sign grows, doors start mis-matching, and other forms of thresholds start acting as a gateway to its theft (don't stand in twilight, children, or at the boundaries of forests... Shores are not safe, and neither are places where a creature is dying.)

Oh, and the knocking. The rapping at doors, the promises...

Surely just opening the door can't hurt? See the title of the thread. Yes, it will hurt.

Arcanist
2013-08-15, 07:04 AM
For the Elder Evil, a very obvious sign would be...

Doors To Nowhere

As the Dweller Beyond The Threshold grows in power, the reach of its theft expands, until the very act of passing through a doorway may mean disappearing forever.

Basically, as the sign increases, the category of creatures that it "steals" expands. As the sign grows, doors start mis-matching, and other forms of thresholds start acting as a gateway to its theft (don't stand in twilight, children, or at the boundaries of forests... Shores are not safe, and neither are places where a creature is dying.)

Oh, and the knocking. The rapping at doors, the promises...

Surely just opening the door can't hurt? See the title of the thread. Yes, it will hurt.

Doors to Nowhere
The Dweller Beyond The Threshold's power scales proportionately to the number of victims it has taken and the number of ransoms completed.

Faint: A Single portal (door, gate, etc.) in every town (Population of 80+) is converted into a portal into the Dweller's realm that only Children (creatures below adulthood for their race) can enter through. 24 hours after the creature vanished through the portal, a letter is sent to the legal guardian or next of kin (hereafter referred to as the "recipient") of the creature demanding the recipient to perform a unique and specific task (infect themselves with a disease, kill a specific person, cook a specific meal, etc.). Each task should be random and it is highly recommended that as the DM you specify them to do something that forwards the campaign or would be completely out of character for them. If the recipient performs the task, the creature is returned to them without any knowledge of what transpired during it's disappearance. If the task is not performed, each day the recipient receives one limb of the creature for 4 days and on the 5th day the creatures head.

Moderate: As Faint, however instead there are now 5 additional Portals in the world and it affects creatures of adulthood and younger. In addition, Conjuration spells and Spell-like abilities with the Teleportation or Calling descriptor function as if they were casted at +2 Caster level and are treated as being prepared or casted with the still spell metamagic, however such spells have a mind of their own when prepared and you run the risk of casting them (20%) whenever you would cast any other type of spell.

Strong: As Moderate, however there are now 10 additional portals in the world and it affects creatures of Middle Age and younger. Conjuration spells with the Teleportation, Calling and Summoning descriptor function as if they were casted at +4 Caster level, are treated as being prepared with the still and silent spell metamagic with a 50% of them casting themselves whenever you would cast any other type of spell and with spells like Teleport and Plane Shift, you may roll twice and pick the better option. If you are within the age category range of this sign there is a 25% chance that when casting a Teleportation spell that you will be taken by the Dweller.

Overwhelming: As Strong, however it now effects every portal in the world and affects creatures of Old age and younger. All Conjuration Spells are treated as if they have been extended, silenced and stilled without modifications to their level and the chance of them casting themselves is increased to 75% and the chance for getting taken when casting a Teleportation spell increases to 50%.

Just something for us to get started on.

Debihuman
2013-08-15, 09:19 AM
Ransom notes should be delivered by a Wolf-At-The-Door, a creature whose natural form it is an anthropomorphic wolf but it can polymorph into the race of the recipient of the ransom letter. It's just a delivery boy and so can dimension door away as soon as the letter is received.

It could be the wolves-at-the-door who are responsible for the killings as directed by the Dweller of on the Threshold. In addition, defeating a wolf-at-the-door reduces the Dweller's Door to Nowhere power by one step (from Overwhelming to Strong, etc.).

I think Faint should be a single doorway. One in every town seems a bit much.

Debby

Rizban
2013-08-15, 11:04 AM
It only reaches Faint level when it can be seen over a large area. A single door wouldn't even register as faint.

I'm still all for the artifact doorknobs being the method by which these doorways propagate. Give one to the PCS, let them use it, then slowly discover everything is their fault.

Rizban
2013-08-15, 11:09 AM
I would also add that casting Gate for planar travel is modified such that it has a duration on instant and can not be dispelled. Such gates have some percentage chance of taking anyone who passes through.

Cheiromancer
2013-08-15, 02:57 PM
I would also add that casting Gate for planar travel is modified such that it has a duration on instant and can not be dispelled. Such gates have some percentage chance of taking anyone who passes through.

Hmmm. Maybe do the same for dimension door. Every time it is cast, a portal is created. And teleport as well; heck, any instantaneous magical transportation. If there are doorways within 100 feet of either the entrance or exit points, one has a chance become a portal.

Too much? If so, then portal creation is triggered only if someone casts these spells within 100 feet of the doorknob - or another portal. With time, every city that people enter or leave magically will be contaminated.

Arcanist
2013-08-16, 04:57 AM
I would also add that casting Gate for planar travel is modified such that it has a duration on instant and can not be dispelled. Such gates have some percentage chance of taking anyone who passes through.

If you've got a modification or adjustment you would like to make, just copy the text and modify it as appropriate. Hell, even make your own version of it and we can discuss which aspects of which are more appropriate and create a single Sign for the Dweller :smalltongue:

Collaboration is on my word calender and I haven't gotten to use it today so... Yeah, here it is :smallannoyed:


Hmmm. Maybe do the same for dimension door. Every time it is cast, a portal is created. And teleport as well; heck, any instantaneous magical transportation. If there are doorways within 100 feet of either the entrance or exit points, one has a chance become a portal.

I'd rather not make the Sign an infectious disease sort of deal and have to keep track of who created what portal, when and for what reason. I'd rather the PCs NOT be the center of the universe for such a campaign setting.


Ransom notes should be delivered by a Wolf-At-The-Door, a creature whose natural form it is an anthropomorphic wolf but it can polymorph into the race of the recipient of the ransom letter. It's just a delivery boy and so can dimension door away as soon as the letter is received.

It could be the wolves-at-the-door who are responsible for the killings as directed by the Dweller of on the Threshold. In addition, defeating a wolf-at-the-door reduces the Dweller's Door to Nowhere power by one step (from Overwhelming to Strong, etc.).

Now this is actually very clever. Perhaps change Dimension door to be Plane Shift (self + 50lbs) to the Dweller's plane. Every Elder Evil has someone who is trying to expand out and allow the creature to inhabit the world and spread it's Evil into the prime and what better way to capture the Dweller and keep to the theme than to make the avatar of the Dweller a Wolf-at-the-Door?

Debihuman
2013-08-16, 05:14 AM
Now this is actually very clever. Perhaps change Dimension door to be Plane Shift (self + 50lbs) to the Dweller's plane. Every Elder Evil has someone who is trying to expand out and allow the creature to inhabit the world and spread it's Evil into the prime and what better way to capture the Dweller and keep to the theme than to make the avatar of the Dweller a Wolf-at-the-Door?

Thanks. Actually plane shift is much better. With 50 lbs., a wolf-at-the-door could take a child assuming those children weigh 50 pound or less. Stuffing a child in a bag of holding only works if the child isn't likely to suffocate or if a temporal stasis spell can be put on the child until it is taken to wherever these things take them. Any idea what the CR for a wolf-at-the-door might be?

Debby

Arcanist
2013-08-16, 05:30 AM
Thanks. Actually plane shift is much better. With 50 lbs., a wolf-at-the-door could take a child assuming those children weigh 50 pound or less. Stuffing a child in a bag of holding only works if the child isn't likely to suffocate or if a temporal stasis spell can be put on the child until it is taken to wherever these things take them. Any idea what the CR for a wolf-at-the-door might be?

Debby

I'd like this fellow to at least be a CR 9. I suppose we can make it so that the Wolf can take a single entity with them and give them the ability to erase the mind of someone while in their captivity... Or at least make the plane they inhabit erase the minds of non-anointed creatures.

As strange as this might sound, I'd like this Elder Evil to be beatable by a party of 15th level characters... Personal taste entirely, but to hell with my hopes and dreams :smalltongue:

Network
2013-08-16, 11:33 AM
I'd like this fellow to at least be a CR 9. I suppose we can make it so that the Wolf can take a single entity with them and give them the ability to erase the mind of someone while in their captivity... Or at least make the plane they inhabit erase the minds of non-anointed creatures.

As strange as this might sound, I'd like this Elder Evil to be beatable by a party of 15th level characters... Personal taste entirely, but to hell with my hopes and dreams :smalltongue:
An Elder Evil vestige beatable by non-epic characters? A non-epic binder is stronger than that. Given that it's an Elder Evil, the CR 18 monster makes more sense as an aspect.

Rizban
2013-08-16, 01:20 PM
Well, he mentioned fighting it as an aspect. I read that as meaning a CR15 aspect.

Arcanist
2013-08-16, 05:10 PM
An Elder Evil vestige beatable by non-epic characters? A non-epic binder is stronger than that. Given that it's an Elder Evil, the CR 18 monster makes more sense as an aspect.


Well, he mentioned fighting it as an aspect. I read that as meaning a CR15 aspect.

You're both right actually :smallsmile:

We determined that the Dweller-In-The-Threshold will be a Vestige that is an Elder Evil as well. As a Vestige it cannot have a physical interactions with the world which is why it has aspects. Since the recommendation of the Wolf-At-The-Door, I am imagining an Anthropomorphic Wolf with levels in Binder/Sorcerer and Anima Mage hoping to become a permanent physical vessel for the Vestige to return to the physical world... Or maybe drag the physical world to it?

With 2 Racial HD and a +2 LA, I'm thinking something like a Binder 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Anima Mage 10 or if you want to get silly, you can make the Wolf have levels in Master of Mask or Mountebank and pull a good old fashion Beary McBearington.

... Personally, I love the idea of a "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" a whole new meaning...

Rizban
2013-08-18, 07:17 PM
As I have some really nasty charop skills, I'd love to take a shot at statting up the Wolf as a legal PC. On the other hand, I think it might be better if it were a DM only monster made to suit rather than a sample NPC that can be copied by the players.

Arcanist
2013-08-18, 08:36 PM
As I have some really nasty charop skills, I'd love to take a shot at statting up the Wolf as a legal PC. On the other hand, I think it might be better if it were a DM only monster made to suit rather than a sample NPC that can be copied by the players.

Why not make multiple builds that serve as recommended builds? I figured that is what most NPCs were. Recommendations :smalltongue:

Rizban
2013-08-20, 12:19 AM
WOLFLINGS

Rather than just use a simple Anthropomorphic Wolf, I made the following monster to serve as the base for the Wolf-At-The-Door. It is based on the stats for the anthropomorphic wolf, hound archon, and marrulurk (Sandstorm). I created two versions. The first is the "natural" wolflings born to the Pack, while the second is a template added to non-wolflings who join the pack and transform into a wolfling.

1
WOLFLING
Small Outsider (Extraplanar, Lawful)
Hit Dice: 3d8
Initiative: +7
Speed : 30 ft.
Armor Class: 20 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural, +3 studded leather armor), touch 14, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+1
Attack: Dagger +5 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Bite +5 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Dagger +5 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and Bite +0 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Change shape, scent, tongues
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 11
Skills: Bluff +6, Disguise +6, Hide +16, Listen +7, Move Silently +12, Sense Motive +7, Spot +7, Survival +7
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Improved InitiativeB, Track
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually lawful neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

A small wolf-like humanoid stands at the door, half hidden by shadows. It wears a heavy cloak obscuring its form, but you get a glimpse of fitted leather armor as it silently holds out a sealed letter. Its black fur highlights the malignant eyes and sharp whiteness of its wolfish grin.

Wolflings originate in a demiplane entirely separated from the multiverse. Though there was no escape from the plane, magical windows exist throughout which show many scenes from across reality. How the wolflings arrived here or came to be is lost in mystery, but they were trapped within this plane for many generations, always looking out and longing for freedom.

Then came the Dweller-In-The-Threshold. Its great power ripped open those windows, allowing the wolflings to travel the planes. In gratitude, they swore and eternal oath of servitude to the Dweller. Now, they serve as its messengers and spies throughout the realms.

Wolflings are in a constant battle for supremacy among themselves. Though rarely lethal, they are constantly fighting over leadership of the pack. The most powerful wolfling earns the title of Wolf-At-The-Door and becomes the true herald of the Dweller.

Combat
Wolflings prefer to run away rather than fight and are reluctant to fight even if cornered. They will fight only long enough to escape into the shadows or teleport away.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will dimension door (may bring one additional unwilling Medium or smaller creature). Caster level 4th.

Change Shape (Su): A wofling can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. While in humanoid form, it loses its bite attack. While in humanoid form, a wolfling receives a +10 racial bonus to Disguise checks to appear to be a member of that race.

Tongues (Su): A wolfling can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell. Caster level 4th. This ability is always active.

Skills: Wolflings have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.


1
WOLFLING TEMPLATE

Not all wolflings are born to the pack. Occasionally, a particularly devout follower of the Dweller-In-The-Threshold will stumble into the demiplane of the wolflings. If he proves himself worthy, he might be welcomed into the pack and undergo a transformation, becoming a wolfling himself.

CREATING A WOLFLING

"Wolfling" is an acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal, non-outsider of size Small or Medium and an Intelligence score of at least 3 (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A wolfling uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature's type changes to Outsider (Lawful). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: Convert all current and future racial Hit Dice to d8s.

Speed: A Small wolfling has a speed of 30 ft, a Medium wolfling has a speed of 40 ft. If the base creature's land speed is higher, use that instant. If it has any other forms of movement, it retains them.

Armor Class: A wolfling gains a +1 bonus to natural armor, to a maximum of +3.

Attack: A wolfling gains a bite attack.

Damage: A wolfling's bite attack deals 1d6 damage if it is Small or 1d8 damage if it is Medium. If the base creature already has a bite attack, use the higher damage.

Special Attacks: A wolfling retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the ability to use dimension door as a spell-like ability at will. It's caster level is equal to 1/2 its Hit Dice. Unlike the normal dimension door spell, a wolfling may bring along one additional unwilling creature of size Medium or smaller, if that creature fails a Will save. The DC is Charisma based.

Special Qualities: A wolfling retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains the following special abilities. Change Shape (Su): A wofling can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. While in humanoid form, it loses its bite attack. While in humanoid form, a wolfling receives a +10 racial bonus to Disguise checks to appear to be a member of that race.
Scent (Ex)
Tongues (Su): A wolfling can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell. Caster level 4th. This ability is always active.
Abilities: Change from the base creature as follows: +4 Dex

Skills: A wolfling receives a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.

Feats: A wolfling gains Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, if it does not already have it.

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +1

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2

Debihuman
2013-08-20, 01:01 AM
Wolfling:

It is missing a feat since its second feat is a bonus feat. It should have 2 regular feats.

Are you sure Oozes should be able to become wolflings?

Debby

Rizban
2013-08-20, 01:03 AM
Wolfling:

It is missing a feat since its second feat is a bonus feat. It should have 2 regular feats.

Are you sure Oozes should be able to become wolflings?

DebbyI put Track on there before you posted.

Oops, meant to also include "with an Intelligence of at least 3."

Edit: Fixed.

Network
2013-08-20, 07:45 AM
I suggest you remove the alignment subtype of the wolflings. I don't see why it's there.

The wolfling template should probably mention Improved Initiative comes as a bonus feat.

Rizban
2013-08-21, 01:00 PM
I suggest you remove the alignment subtype of the wolflings. I don't see why it's there.I included it as part of being eternally sworn to serve the DITH. I was tentative about it, but I can change it if some of the others think it a problem.


The wolfling template should probably mention Improved Initiative comes as a bonus feat.I thought it already did. :smallconfused:

Network
2013-08-21, 01:24 PM
I included it as part of being eternally sworn to serve the DITH. I was tentative about it, but I can change it if some of the others think it a problem.
The Lawful subtype would imply that the wolflings are literally made of law. I understand the intend but the alignment line imply there is quite many chaotic wolflings, which shouldn't being negatively affected by chaotic effects as if they were lawful.

I thought it already did. :smallconfused:
I mean bonus feat. The template just states ''as a feat''. As written, one could argue Improved Initiative replaces a feat of the base creature.

Hanuman
2013-08-21, 02:24 PM
http://hexxit.wikia.com/wiki/Dimensional_Door

http://hexxit.wikia.com/wiki/Limbo

If you own minecraft, go try Hexxit from the Technic launcher. It's fantastic and plays kind of like skyrim, I wouldn't claim that it is equal to skyrim in single player gameplay, but it is multiplayer and challenging.

Anyway, walking into special ruined archways sometimes creates a dimensional door, it forms a pocket dimension and a doorway appears on the outside. There's many types of rooms and they form a maze. Modular dungeon rooms with loads of traps and treasure.

Before Limbo was created basically what would happen is that there would be a pitch black matter called Fabric of Reality that was essentially invisible, it coated the inside of a lot of dimensions so you could walk around them, if you broke it you'd fall through the floor and into the abyss, easily solved in Tekkit with a jetpack, but not so much in Hexxit with no technology.

Limbo was created as an anti-cheat mechanism, any room that's designed to have intricate moving parts (and lots of rooms that don't) do not have that fabric of reality shell, and limbo bleeds through. The eye watches and awakens when line of sight is made, if you end your turn (about 6 seconds of exposure) in line of sight you are banished to Limbo.
This both replaces the death penalty for falling (it kills you and gives you back your gear), and it safeguards against breaking through the walls and disabling complex traps from the outside. You can still disarm traps, it's just a bit trickier to figure out how to break them from the inside.

Eye of the Old God, as seen from limbo looking up:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130710080231/hexxit/images/2/2f/Limbo_sky.ig.png

Debihuman
2013-08-21, 03:20 PM
The Lawful subtype would imply that the wolflings are literally made of law. I understand the intend but the alignment line imply there is quite many chaotic wolflings, which shouldn't being negatively affected by chaotic effects as if they were lawful.

That's not correct. The Lawful Subype means this (bolded for emphasis: Lawful Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the lawful-aligned Outer Planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have lawful alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a lawful alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the lawful subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were lawful-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).[/quote]

Since this is an acquired template, the wolfling could gain the Lawful Subtype without having its alignment change. There is a lovely dichotomy that comes from this since the Dweller On The Threshold clearly delights in sowing mayhem.

Debby

Network
2013-08-22, 01:05 AM
That's not correct.
The Lawful Subype means this (bolded for emphasis: Lawful Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the lawful-aligned Outer Planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have lawful alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a lawful alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the lawful subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were lawful-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).

Since this is an acquired template, the wolfling could gain the Lawful Subtype without having its alignment change. There is a lovely dichotomy that comes from this since the Dweller On The Threshold clearly delights in sowing mayhem.

Debby
I know that ; I just don't understand why a renegade wolfling would be affected by, say, Chaos Hammer. If they are naturally Lawful, one can assume either their original home plane or their prison demi-plane is, but that raise the question of why they were put there in the first place, or kept there after attuning with the Lawful nature of the demi-plane.

Rizban
2013-08-22, 05:41 AM
It isn't a prison. That was just the natural state of the plane, and they are (most likely) it's native denizens.

The Lawful bit was meant to be a combination of their nature and their being sworn to a fairly powerful elder evil. The oath is powerful enough that it leaves its taint on their very being.

Debihuman
2013-08-22, 10:51 AM
I know that ; I just don't understand why a renegade wolfling would be affected by, say, Chaos Hammer. If they are naturally Lawful, one can assume either their original home plane or their prison demi-plane is, but that raise the question of why they were put there in the first place, or kept there after attuning with the Lawful nature of the demi-plane.

It's a template you add to a creature. They're not "naturally lawful" necessarily.

Debby

Network
2013-08-22, 11:46 AM
It isn't a prison. That was just the natural state of the plane, and they are (most likely) it's native denizens.

The Lawful bit was meant to be a combination of their nature and their being sworn to a fairly powerful elder evil. The oath is powerful enough that it leaves its taint on their very being.
I just got the answer I wanted. If the wolfling race has Law as part of their nature, then it makes sense that they have the Lawful subtype. Even more if they are bound to an hereditary oath of some sort.

LordErebus12
2013-08-28, 02:30 AM
im thinking this door might see some action at some point in my PbP, set partially in the World Serpent Inn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300279).

LordErebus12
2013-08-30, 05:10 PM
do you think that perhaps these doors are servants of the Lady of Pain? I would make sense, in my mind... Sigil is the City of Doors and the Lady of Pain is utterly insane and extremely powerful (able to kill gods with a thought). The one named Dabus (the keepers of Sigil and servants of the Lady of Pain) is a fallen one named Fell. He runs a tattoo parlor in Sigil's Grand Bazaar.

Network
2013-08-30, 05:55 PM
do you think that perhaps these doors are servants of the Lady of Pain? I would make sense, in my mind... Sigil is the City of Doors and the Lady of Pain is utterly insane and extremely powerful (able to kill gods with a thought). The one named Dabus (the keepers of Sigil and servants of the Lady of Pain) is a fallen one named Fell. He runs a tattoo parlor in Sigil's Grand Bazaar.
As far as I know, the Lady of Pain isn't insane. She does what she thinks is her job (keeping Sigil neutral) and won't kill a god that doesn't try to enter her realm, though the Dweller may be using Sigil to create the portals, and the Lady of Pain may be trying to leave Sigil (giving credit to the hypothesis that Sigil is her jail).

LordErebus12
2013-08-30, 06:48 PM
As far as I know, the Lady of Pain isn't insane. She does what she thinks is her job (keeping Sigil neutral) and won't kill a god that doesn't try to enter her realm, though the Dweller may be using Sigil to create the portals, and the Lady of Pain may be trying to leave Sigil (giving credit to the hypothesis that Sigil is her jail).

I had mistakenly read this passage to refer to the Lady, instead of Ravel. My mistake.

A theory that appears late in the computer game Planescape: Torment is that the Lady is a prisoner and that Sigil is her cage. This theory is plausible in that its coiner, Ravel Puzzlewell, who would refer to herself as "the solver of puzzles not needing solving", had a level of understanding about the mechanics of the planes incomprehensible by men. Unfortunately (or consequently), she was also insane; whether her insanity set in before or after being "mazed" by the Lady is unknown.

Rizban
2013-08-30, 07:04 PM
Of course, to reach a conclusion related to the Lady of Pain, you'd have to ignore all the rest of this thread where we've established that the artifact knob is the property of the Elder Evil/Vestige known as the Dweller In The Threshold.

JBPuffin
2013-08-31, 01:32 PM
Not necessarily...

Suppose you're The Lady, trying to leave Sigil. A being of obviously great power (if a bit disturbing) offers you the oppurtunity to do so...after you've sown chaos by changing out a bunch of doorknobs. Seems simple, right?

The problem is, the Dweller and his wolves get hungry...so, Lady of Pain steals children to feed Him, assuring that he survives to get her out and also granting her more favor in His sight - all the while assuming the Dweller is simply a really powerful magus.

Eventually, given enough time, the Dweller will link the doorways together, creating the singularity, and technicaly giving the Lady what she wants: freedom from Sigil.

So no, it IS possible that they serve both; it's simply a matter of who they serve more.