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Asteron
2013-08-11, 12:39 AM
One of my favorite series when I was in middle/early high school was The Chronicles of Prydain. Recently, I've been toying with the idea of porting the Huntsmen of Annuvin into D&D. Here (http://prydain.wikia.com/wiki/Huntsmen_of_Annuvin) is a rundown of what they are.

I was thinking of a spell that would add a template to a group of humanoids. The spell would come in two strengths: Bond of the Hunt and Greater bond of the Hunt. I would imagine them to look like this:

Bond of the Hunt
Necromancy
Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 60 feet
Target: One humanoid of 10 HD or less per level (Max 10)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No

This spell bonds the targets' life forces together and turns each one into Huntsman.

A glowing red rune appears on each targets forehead to mark them. Each group of bonded huntsmen has a different rune.

Material components: One drop of blood from each target and a ruby worth 500 gp.

XP cost: 1000

Bond of the Hunt, Greater
Necromancy
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 60 feet
Target: One humanoid of 15 HD or less per level (Max 20)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No

This spell bonds the targets' life forces together and turns each one into a Greater Huntsman.

A glowing red rune appears on each targets forehead to mark them. Each group of bonded huntsmen has a different rune.

Material components: One drop of blood from each target and a ruby worth 5000 gp.

XP cost: 2500

For the Templates:
Huntsman
Size and Type
The creature’s type is unchanged. As is their size

Speed
A huntsman's speed is increased by +10 feet.

Armor Class
Natural armor improves by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).

Special Qualities
A huntsman has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities:
-Blood Bond: Whenever one of the huntsmen that are bonded together dies, the remaining huntsmen's physical prowess is increased. They gain a cumulative +2 bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution and a +1 bonus to natural armor. These bonuses are untyped.
-Hardy: A huntsmen becomes immune to Fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued) and Exhaustion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted). The Huntsman also gains Diehard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#diehard)as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
-Woodland Lore: A huntsman gains a +5 to Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm), Move Silently (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/moveSilently.htm), Spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm), Listen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm), Search (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/search.htm), and Survival (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm)while in a wooded area or grasslands. These skills are considered class skills for a hunstman. It also gains the Track (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#track)feat
-Bestial Visage: While wearing the skin of an animal, a huntsman gains a +10 to Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm)checks to look and sound like that animal. Disguise is always a class skill for a huntsman.

Challenge Rating:
Increase the Challenge rating for each Huntsman by 1

Special: A huntsman cannot be made into a Greater Huntsman.
---------------

Greater Hunstman
Size and Type
The creature’s type is unchanged, as is their size

Speed
A huntsman's speed is increased by +20 feet.

Armor Class
Natural armor improves by +3 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).

Special Qualities
A greater huntsman has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities:
-Blood Bond: Whenever one of the huntsmen that are bonded together dies, the remaining huntsmen's physical prowess is increased. They gain a cumulative +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution and a +2 bonus to natural armor. These bonuses are untyped.
-Hardy: A huntsmen becomes immune to Fatigue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued) and Exhaustion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted). The Huntsman also gains Diehard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#diehard)as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
-Woodland Lore: A huntsman gains a +10 to Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm), Move Silently (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/moveSilently.htm), Spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm), Listen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm), Search (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/search.htm), and Survival (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/survival.htm)while in a wooded area or grasslands. These skills are considered class skills for a hunstman. It also gains the Track (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#track)feat
-Bestial Visage: While wearing the skin of an animal, a huntsman gains a +20 to Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/disguise.htm)checks to look and sound like that animal. Disguise is always a class skill for a huntsman.

I was wanting to give the spells a high cost to prohibit spamming of these spells. Huntsmen are supposed to be difficult to make and replace, else they would overrun the world easily.

I'm a little worried that they might be too powerful, however. The last one in the group is going to be really hard to bring down, which is the point, but they may be too hard to take down. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to make them better/playable?

I apologize if this is terribad. I'm not a great homebrewer.

Edit: Changed the Greater spell to 8th level instead of 7th.

Asteron
2013-08-12, 11:22 AM
So... no one has anything to offer on this?

I didn't think that it was that bad of an idea...

The Troubadour
2013-08-12, 11:31 AM
I like them, but I think it would be a bit of a pain (as the GM) to readjust the stats for all Huntsmen once one of them dies. How about changing the bonus to a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls and DR 2/- for any Huntsman that dies? As for the Greater Huntsman, make it a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls and Natural Armor and DR 2/-.

Asteron
2013-08-12, 11:47 AM
I like them, but I think it would be a bit of a pain (as the GM) to readjust the stats for all Huntsmen once one of them dies. How about changing the bonus to a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls and DR 2/- for any Huntsman that dies? As for the Greater Huntsman, make it a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls and Natural Armor and DR 2/-.

That's not a bad idea... I'd probably raise the numbers for the Greater version. Maybe add a dodge bonus to AC for both of them to reflect the DEX bump.

Should I add a boost to a save or keep it simple?

The Troubadour
2013-08-15, 07:34 PM
Maybe add a dodge bonus to AC for both of them to reflect the DEX bump.

Nice!


Should I add a boost to a save or keep it simple?

Add it. These guys should be fearsome to wizards and warriors alike. >:-)

Debihuman
2013-08-16, 05:59 AM
You say a Huntsman can't be turned into a greater Huntsman in the template for Huntsman but you have a spell that can do that.

I'm not a big fan of the spells. There's a disconnect between the spells and how the templates are acquired.

Here are other things I'd change

Target: 10 HD of Humanoids who can be no more than 30-feet apart from each other

Spell resistance: Yes

Your text isn't bad but somewhere it should say that the target acquires the Template.

I don't see anything about how the binding works or why the huntsmen would even have to work together. They just gain a bunch of benefits.

Blood bond could use some rewording. It should be a circumstance bonus since those stack rather than an "untyped" bonus, as that's what makes the most sense, esp. since circumstance bonuses stack!

How do you gain a bonus to NA if you don't have any to start with? Humanoids don't generally have Natural Armor. There should be a limit to the amount of Natural Armor you can gain so a wizard can't just cast this spell on everyone he knows (like a bunch of commoners and his buddy and then kill all the commoners to give their bonuses to his buddy). There needs to be a maximum limit on how much you can increase your ability scores and Natural Armor to avoid abuse. I would start by only granting the bonus to ONE of the abilities or to natural armor.

Blood Bond (Ex): Whenever one of the huntsmen that are bonded together dies, the remaining huntsmen's physical prowess is increased. The remaining huntsmen gains a +2 circumstance bonus to of the following: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution; or he gains Natural Armor +1. If he already has natural armor +1 or better, his bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5.

The Ruby for the first spell should be worth 15,000 gp.

Each time you cast this spell a different and unrelated group of Huntsmen is made. Huntsmen only gain the benefits from their own group, and do not benefit from the death other huntsmen in other groups.


What is the purpose of the Greater Huntsman spell and template? Just to give out more power as cheaply as possible? It's tremendously abusable.

Your templates don't even force the huntsman to have to work together or limit their powers if they stray more than a set distance from one another.

This is far, far too cheap. You still need to have an oath and consequences for breaking it.

Debby

SiuiS
2013-08-16, 07:26 AM
Neat!

I see that there may be a problem after all, though, with a wizard offing his personal army for the boons. Might I suggest looking up the Legion Devil from FC 2, and evaluating how that could be used for this concept? There should e a reason to keep everyone alive, as well as the group benefit.

If you're willing to get complicated, you could divide like, all of a slain Huntsman's strength and half his Constitution amongst all remaining members? No, too much once you get down to one guy. Maybe put a cap on the bonus for lesser huntsman, though, don't you think? So if fifty dudes end up cronking, they cap at +20 each after the first third go?

The Troubadour
2013-08-17, 10:53 AM
There needs to be a maximum limit on how much you can increase your ability scores and Natural Armor to avoid abuse. I would start by only granting the bonus to ONE of the abilities or to natural armor.

ONE of the abilities? No, that would be too weak; even Prince Gwydion was very cautious about fighting those guys exactly because of how strong they could be.
I THINK there was a limit to how many Hunstmen worked together in the books, but I can't remember the exact number. But really, most of your objections rely on PCs having access to this sort of thing, which (I believe) isn't the point; this is for GMs only.

Debihuman
2013-08-17, 03:32 PM
ONE of the abilities? No, that would be too weak; even Prince Gwydion was very cautious about fighting those guys exactly because of how strong they could be.
I THINK there was a limit to how many Hunstmen worked together in the books, but I can't remember the exact number. But really, most of your objections rely on PCs having access to this sort of thing, which (I believe) isn't the point; this is for GMs only.

Depends on if you cast this spell more than once. You can cast it multiple times on the same creatures so it's very abusable. Each time you add +2 to a different ability (NA doesn't increase with multiple castings) each time you cast it but you shouldn't be able to increase the each ability more than +2.

If you were 8th level, you could cast this spell once a day and in 6 says the stats would all be +2. If you are building an army, it would take a while to get everyone's stats high enough but I doubt the leader would be as low as 8th level.

An 8th level sorcerer could do nothing but cast this spell 3 times a day. Every two days a new group gets enspelled. And you can hire more casters to do this as well.

Debby

TuggyNE
2013-08-17, 05:26 PM
ONE of the abilities? No, that would be too weak; even Prince Gwydion was very cautious about fighting those guys exactly because of how strong they could be.
I THINK there was a limit to how many Hunstmen worked together in the books, but I can't remember the exact number. But really, most of your objections rely on PCs having access to this sort of thing, which (I believe) isn't the point; this is for GMs only.

There was a limit, but it was never precisely defined; they had a specific band size, but that could just have been CL limitations.

Debi's point about being able to cast it multiple times is well-taken, though; that should just fail. A Huntsman, once created, can never join another band, and the band's numbers cannot be further augmented in any way.

The Troubadour
2013-08-20, 07:14 AM
Debi's point about being able to cast it multiple times is well-taken, though; that should just fail.

That's sensible. But I maintain this spell probably shouldn't be allowed into the PC's hands.