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Wizzardman
2006-12-16, 02:22 AM
Inspired by a Hard and Phirm song, as well as the earlier thread on pseudonatural creatures.

Pi [deity of unknown rank]
"The Patron Saint of Imperfection frees us from our sin..."
--Semitraditional Chant of the Clerics of Pi [known as Euclids; the highest priest is referred to as the Hadamard]
"I don't pretend to understand the universe; its bigger than I am."
--from the Teachings of Escher, Sixth Hadamard

Domains: Madness [Complete Divine], Luck, Chaos, Law, Knowledge

Deity Alignment: Neutral

Traditional weapon of the deity: two-bladed sword

Typical followers include: those who worship the infinity of the universe, people who believe in a rational creation, people with high intelligence, wizards, alienists, psions, monks, half-humans, pseudonatural creatures, beings from the far realm, Lawful and Chaotic Neutral characters, gnomes

Typical divine beings/avatar form:
Pi traditionally shows its influence on the world in the form of creatures from the far realm, beings from Mechanus, and similar representations of the fundamental law and chaos in the universe. Few angels, archons, demons, or devils follow this god; many consider its existence an abomination, and hunt its followers whenever possible. Most consider the suggestion that law and chaos are intertwined in the existence of the universe to be impossible and heretical. Of the few times that this being appears to its followers, it often reveals itself as a Colossal pseudonatural Inevitable weilding two vorpal wounding swords with serrated edges, connected to each other by a thin, twisting chain.
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Unnaturally powerful for a god with such a small worshipper base, Pi is a god whose popularity seems relegated to those who would dare flirt with infinity. Called "The Great Attractor," "God-Fractal," or "Chaos Theory" by its followers, this god appears to have originated in the Far Realm--although originated is hardly the term for it. Some theorize that it has always existed as a fundamental part of the universe, and has only been revealed in the fabric of reality by the actions of those fool people who seek to know the unknowable.

It appears to have little or no interest in mundane affairs, yet grants spells to its followers all the same; likewise, it has no interest in godly politics, save to preserve its own existence. Its exact strength compared to other dieties is unknown, for it rarely reveals enough power to be compared, and occasionally shows power far beyond what its tiny group of worshippers would suggest. On the whole, most lawful or chaotic gods find the being detestable--a twisted amalgamtion of purity and impurity; an unstable and unpredictable judge whose will is both imperceptible and unstoppable. Surprisingly, many nature oriented gods seem genuinely friendly to the Divine Fractal and its worshippers, and have acted in concert with the being, or called on its aid before.

Pi commands its worshippers to "Be what thou art and know what thou knowst--all is perfection and imperfection beneath the unplottable eyes of Infinity." As such, it remains popular among those who are typically considered 'lesser' or 'impure' among the civilized races. There is no real sin beyond failing to be what you are, and not striving to be the best that you could be--those who follow rules they don't believe in, or who hide their true feelings from themselves, are in danger of losing Pi's favor. Its clerics promise no afterlife or paradise for the dead, instead proposing a return to the infinite; the bodies and spirits of those who die rejoin with the fabric of the universe itself, becoming part of something greater rather than remaining a lesser aspect of reality. The quest for knowledge is the central theme of the church; though most worshippers
believe that to know Pi is impossible, the search for it and the meaning it provides drives them to constantly analyze the universe around them for its influence. The more one knows about the universe, the closer he/she/it gets to understanding itself, and its own place in the divine fabric of reality. Pi worshippers believe that Pi is everywhere, in every action, within every being, behind every emotion.

The circle is the holiest of shapes for worshippers of the Great Attractor; it is one of the simplest of shapes, yet approaches infinity in ways that no other geometric form can ever reach. Thus, the holy symbol of Pi is a circle with the Pi symbol inscribed into it, and monasteries to Pi are referred to as 'circles.' Temples to Pi are typically referred to as 'schools,' and clerics in training typically spend years educating themselves [and the citizens around them] in the basics fundamentals of reality, ranging from Perceptions of Reality [psychology, literature] to The Building Blocks of Existence [biology, chemistry, physics, higher mathematics]. Believers in the power of Pi are generally very pro-science and pro-education; they often fund education programs for commoners, support expensive magical research, chart the stars, send out expeditions to study the Planes, and write poems or mathematical theorems that help them describe their connection to the infinite.

Winged One
2006-12-16, 02:28 AM
Is this (http://pi.ytmnd.com/) one of it's hymns?

averagejoe
2006-12-16, 02:48 AM
Typical followers include: those who worship the infinity of the universe, people who believe in a rational creation, people with high intelligence, wizards, alienists, psions, monks, half-humans, pseudonatural creatures, beings from the far realm, Lawful and Chaotic Neutral characters, gnomes


:smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, though, this idea is very cool. Not just because I'm a math geek either. The Typical divine beings/avatar form: section gave the diety a very good feel in terms of his roles and influences on earth, beyond any other published-or-not diety I've seen (though, to be fair, I haven't looked at a lot). This is honestly the first time that I've seen a homebrewed diety that got my own mind thinking in this direction. And the first one I might like to steal.

My biggest gripe about your descriptions is that at times it seemed like you're trying to make a political statement and, whether you are or not, this detracts from the quintissential cool-ness of the diety.

Wizzardman
2006-12-16, 02:49 AM
Is this (http://pi.ytmnd.com/) one of it's hymns?
Yes. All glory to 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288...!


:smallbiggrin:

My biggest gripe about your descriptions is that at times it seemed like you're trying to make a political statement and, whether you are or not, this detracts from the quintissential cool-ness of the diety.

I am? Meh. I wasn't trying to. Sorry about that, then. I was just trying to create a deity that would appeal geeky, math nerds and their characters, and would look like it could actually attract followers in a D&D setting.

Go ahead, steal away, though. Have fun with it! Edit as you will, to fix whatever problems you may have with it.

Khantalas
2006-12-16, 05:49 AM
Blasphemy! PHI is H times cooler than PI! And it's more common a number in nature.

averagejoe
2006-12-16, 12:26 PM
I am? Meh. I wasn't trying to. Sorry about that, then. I was just trying to create a deity that would appeal geeky, math nerds and their characters, and would look like it could actually attract followers in a D&D setting.

I didn't mean to say you were, just that it sounded like it at times, which is just as bad. It's a minor thing, really.


Blasphemy! PHI is H times cooler than PI! And it's more common a number in nature.

You're right, Phi is 6.626068 10-34 m2 kg / s as cool as pi. Because pi is lots cooler. Phi doesn't even do anything, it's just a curiosity with some cultural baggage tacked on. It shows up in nature (to a reasonable approximation, not even exactly), but then it's like, so what? Phi doesn't do anything it just kind of sits there and enjoys the popularity brought on by Dan Brown while pi toils away at geometry, calculus, mechanics, electrodynamics, thermodynamics, etc. etc. Pi actually does appear a lot in nature, just not in ways as obvious as Phi. Anyways, if you use Phi then people might get it confused with the potential in an electric field, or something useful like that.

Actually, if you want a really cool number, choose e. e is freakin' crazy. Of course, it would be kinda awkward to have a diety named e. I'd be too tempted to call him, "e... for ENDETTA"

mikeejimbo
2006-12-16, 04:02 PM
It's scary 'cause it's true...

Edit: And I bet its rank is actually pi.

Although infinity, or 0, would make more sense.

I would say that infinity is a cool number, but given that it's not really a number, I won't.

Demented
2006-12-16, 04:26 PM
Phi doesn't do anything it just kind of sits there and enjoys the popularity brought on by Dan Brown while pi toils away at geometry, calculus, mechanics, electrodynamics, thermodynamics, etc.

It entertained Greek architects for a good few hundreds of years before Dan Brown. That's not to say that pop mathematics didn't exist back then either. But at least they didn't bother with quantum theory.

0 isn't a number either... though, that'd make more sense as an ideal than a diety.

Khantalas
2006-12-16, 05:10 PM
If you spend too much time drawing rectangles of the Fibonacci ratios, you know it's cooler.

And there are constants represented by h other than the Planck constant.

...

No, there isn't. Sorry to bother you.

averagejoe
2006-12-16, 07:09 PM
It entertained Greek architects for a good few hundreds of years before Dan Brown. That's not to say that pop mathematics didn't exist back then either. But at least they didn't bother with quantum theory.

0 isn't a number either... though, that'd make more sense as an ideal than a diety.

The fact that the Greeks used it was what I meant when I said it had cultural baggage. That's my point; there's absolutely no reason why you should build using that ratio other than the fact that it looks pretty. It's the same with Phi; it doesn't do anything, it just has some curious properties, none of which make it really useful.

Of course zero is a number. It's a very well defined number. It would be kinda odd to have a diety named zero, however. You'd get all sorts of stupid jokes. The clerics of Pelor would be all like, "Hey! Hey you! You're god's a total ZERO! Get it? AHHAHAHAHAHA!"

mikeejimbo
2006-12-16, 11:40 PM
Of course zero is a number. It's a very well defined number. It would be kinda odd to have a diety named zero, however. You'd get all sorts of stupid jokes. The clerics of Pelor would be all like, "Hey! Hey you! You're god's a total ZERO! Get it? AHHAHAHAHAHA!"


Actually, I was originally going to say "of course, neither of those are numbers" but then thought that the idea of 0 being a number is debatable.

Apparently it was.

Grey Knight
2006-12-19, 09:09 AM
Shouldn't the favoured weapon be something round? At the very least, something curved like a scimitar or that spins like a bolas.

Wizzardman
2006-12-20, 12:16 AM
Shouldn't the favoured weapon be something round? At the very least, something curved like a scimitar or that spins like a bolas.

I couldn't think of any decently sane round weapons off the top of my head (except perhaps the shield---now that's an idea), so I decided to give it something with an aura of impracticality. This eventually led to sword-chucks, which the avatar of Pi wields. The serrated edge was inspired by Pratchett's quantum weather butterfly.

Shadow of the Sun
2006-12-20, 12:31 AM
So the weapon is actually infinitely large, but our minds cannot comprehend it? Dear god, this weapon has an infinite reach! How do we avoid being killed?

averagejoe
2006-12-20, 01:02 AM
For the blade to hit anything it would have to travel across an infinite path, which would take infinitely long, so we have until the end of time.

Wizzardman
2006-12-20, 01:45 AM
And this is why the avatar of Pi is rarely ever seen.

...Seriously, though, its just a reference; the blade is not really infinitely large, no matter what Pi might say about it.

Shadow of the Sun
2006-12-20, 03:52 AM
Do not make use of references unless you are serious about using them and following them to their logical conclusions, because if you do not, you will find at least one ingrating nerd who does, and they will annoy you for the rest of you life.

NullAshton
2006-12-20, 11:23 AM
Technically, the blade would be 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288... and so on long, in feet or something. Probably with magic.

Shadow of the Sun
2006-12-20, 06:28 PM
Nope, it wouldn't be. Read Interesting Times by Terry Pratchett- the passage about the wings of the Quantum Weather Butterfly is the one that applies here

Wizzardman
2006-12-21, 12:28 AM
Do not make use of references unless you are serious about using them and following them to their logical conclusions, because if you do not, you will find at least one ingrating nerd who does, and they will annoy you for the rest of you life.

All right:

If it is an infinitely large object within a contained space, then it defies physical reality as we know it. Therefore, it is magic, and can move as fast as it bloody well wants. As it is a weapon weilded by an avatar of a god, it can be as magic as it wants.

And seeing as how the quantum weather butterfly technically had wings with infinite edges, and yet seemed to be able to move quite well, I don't see what the problem is.


Technically, the blade would be 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288... and so on long, in feet or something. Probably with magic.

That seems to work well enough--and that's close enough to infinite in edge as I really wanted, anyway.

averagejoe
2006-12-21, 02:09 AM
Ah, infintie edges, that's different. Someone above said infinitely large, and it's been a really long time since I've read Interesting Times. If you're talking about infinite edges then maybe his sword could be some sort of Koch Curve (http://ecademy.agnesscott.eKoch Curvedu/~lriddle/ifs/ksnow/ksnow.htm) variant.

Grey Knight
2006-12-21, 11:49 AM
That is, a finite area bounded by a curve of infinite length. Oh, and the "thin, twisting chain" has to be shaped like the sixth figure on this page (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CurlicueFractal.html).

Wizzardman
2006-12-21, 05:15 PM
Ah, infintie edges, that's different. Someone above said infinitely large, and it's been a really long time since I've read Interesting Times. If you're talking about infinite edges then maybe his sword could be some sort of Koch Curve (http://ecademy.agnesscott.ekoch%20curvedu/%7Elriddle/ifs/ksnow/ksnow.htm) variant.

That works well enough.


That is, a finite area bounded by a curve of infinite length. Oh, and the "thin, twisting chain" has to be shaped like the sixth figure on this page (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CurlicueFractal.html).

Ach, my browser is having problems loading your website. I'll come back and respond to this when I can get the blasted thing to work.

Grey Knight
2006-12-24, 11:29 AM
Here's a direct link to the image (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CurlicueFractal_900.gif) if that's of use.