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Cranthis
2013-08-14, 12:01 AM
Raelgil

A mysterious race of part flesh, part crystal beings. They first came about when a group of Humans and Elves were having a peace meeting, in the neutral territory of the Arcane City. The mad nameless son of Archmage Lucian set of a bomb made of raw magic in the middle of the ceremony. Raw magic can cause literally anything to happen, and oh did it happen.

Raelgil Traits (Ex): Raelgil possess the following racial traits.
- +2 Intelligence, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
- Medium size
- Racial Skills: +2 Knowledge: Arcana, +2 Spellcraft
- +2 Natural Armor
- Special qualities: Immortal: No aging penalties. (The race is only a few weeks old in the campaign I am using this for, so this won't be as abuse-able.)
-Raelgil have a base speed of 30 feet.
-Raelgil speak Common and Elven, Bonus languages: Any.
-Favored Class: Wizard.
Raelgil can have their crystals enchanted as magic items, taking up the slot that the crystal(s) occupy.

Level adjustment: +0



A Better Physical Description

They essentially appear to be Half-Elves, but they have a sleek, crystal plate on he outer forearm, outer upper arm, the edge of the ears at the top (pointed), the shins, front of the thighs, shoulder blades, lower back on either side of the spine, jaw line, in between the knuckles, and the nails.

Due to the crystals in and on their bodies, they are a bit tougher than most races, and abit harder to damage. Their minds are sharp thanks to the magic coursing through their brain. It is theorized they have a solid crystal mind, powered by raw magic. They have a hard time figuring out where they belong in the world, and thus are less sociable than other races.

So, what do you guys think, and how can I improve this?

AuraTwilight
2013-08-14, 12:22 AM
What sets them apart from other races? They don't really stand out yet.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 12:27 AM
What sets them apart from other races? They don't really stand out yet.

This is true. They are more meant to be a big part of the story, but I want them playable, if one of my players dies and asks to be one. I just edited in a small bit bout them being able to enchant the crystals on their body.

Xuldarinar
2013-08-14, 12:36 AM
So far they look good, but they need fleshed out. Considerations as to what their form bestows upon them. Interactions with magic, other traits, ect. From the description, this almost begs for a race with LA.


The description honestly makes me think Half-Psion-Killer Half elves or Half-Incarnum Golem Half elves.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 12:43 AM
So far they look good, but they need fleshed out. Considerations as to what their form bestows upon them. Interactions with magic, other traits, ect. From the description, this almost begs for a race with LA.


The description honestly makes me think Half-Psion-Killer Half elves or Half-Incarnum Golem Half elves.

The fleshing out is exactly what I need help with. And they are going to have a level adjustment (probably of 1) but I havent fully finished, and will put that on when I'm satisfied with everything else.

Xuldarinar
2013-08-14, 01:04 AM
The fleshing out is exactly what I need help with. And they are going to have a level adjustment (probably of 1) but I havent fully finished, and will put that on when I'm satisfied with everything else.

And if you would elaborate on what you mean by "Considerations as to what their form bestows upon them"? If you mean explain the racials, I'm getting to that. I just wanted the base to up.

Well, consider this. You have a race made partially of crystal. Not aging past adulthood does make sense, as does the armor adjustment, and even to an extent their ability enchant their bodies. But beyond that, would being partially made of crystals, of magical origin of course, have any other effect? Being formerly humans and elves, what of their racial identities should remain? What kind of elves, what human and elven cultures were involved, so on. How are they perceived by other races and how does this affect their outlook? Do they have memory of what they were before? Being made of crystal in part, but formerly humanoids, should they remain humanoids? Become aberrations? Constructs (living construct)? Outsiders?

I find it interesting that their origins lie in raw magic, not of a specific type. The only 'magic' types I know of associated with crystals are psionics and incarnum. That is not complaint mind you, merely an observation.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 01:15 AM
Well, consider this. You have a race made partially of crystal. Not aging past adulthood does make sense, as does the armor adjustment, and even to an extent their ability enchant their bodies. But beyond that, would being partially made of crystals, of magical origin of course, have any other effect? Being formerly humans and elves, what of their racial identities should remain? What kind of elves, what human and elven cultures were involved, so on. How are they perceived by other races and how does this affect their outlook? Do they have memory of what they were before? Being made of crystal in part, but formerly humanoids, should they remain humanoids? Become aberrations? Constructs (living construct)? Outsiders?

I find it interesting that their origins lie in raw magic, not of a specific type. The only 'magic' types I know of associated with crystals are psionics and incarnum. That is not complaint mind you, merely an observation.

I like you already. I have been working out things like that, I just haven't posted them here. The post here was mostly for their game mechanics side, not the whole story side. As a side-note, Raw Magic is something I'm kind of introducing in my campaign. Its always been in dnd theoretically. I'm just making it a bigger point.

Xuldarinar
2013-08-14, 01:41 AM
I like you already. I have been working out things like that, I just haven't posted them here. The post here was mostly for their game mechanics side, not the whole story side. As a side-note, Raw Magic is something I'm kind of introducing in my campaign. Its always been in dnd theoretically. I'm just making it a bigger point.

Fair enough. I would like to see the story side at some point, at least basics though more specific than what is here already, as both a matter of curiosity and to consider how they could influence the mechanics. As for raw magic, have you considered class applications? Thats another thing to work out all together, but its something to consider. Being changed by raw magic, raelgil could have racial feats, substitution levels, and prc(s) associated with it.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 01:46 AM
Fair enough. I would like to see the story side at some point, at least basics though more specific than what is here already, as both a matter of curiosity and to consider how they could influence the mechanics. As for raw magic, have you considered class applications? Thats another thing to work out all together, but its something to consider. Being changed by raw magic, raelgil could have racial feats, substitution levels, and prc(s) associated with it.

I do have plans for all of that, especially the racial feats, and possibly a paragon class, but for now I have to get the beginning bits finished.

Cloud
2013-08-14, 02:30 AM
If this race is for pathfinder, the current stats are probably okay for a LA: +0 race.

If it was for 3.5 though, well it's attribute bonuses should probably add to +0, instead of +2 like they currently do. If you wanted to make the race LA: +0, then yeah, I'd bring down the attributes to +0. If you wanted to make it LA: +1, well maybe add another minor feature.

That being said, Con is basically a universal secondary stat, Cha is often a dump stat, and Int always does your skills points even if you don't use it, and for Wizards this race is about perfect...so it probably doesn't need much to justify an LA of +1.

In any case, getting +2 to another thematic skill is probably appropriate to help round out the race.

Temotei
2013-08-14, 03:39 AM
In any case, getting +2 to another thematic skill is probably appropriate to help round out the race.

Alternatively, crystal shard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crystalShard.htm) at will wouldn't be a bad idea. At certain Hit Dice increments, auto-augment it or add the option to lose your natural armor bonus for a round to augment it or something.

Just a thought.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 01:11 PM
If this race is for pathfinder, the current stats are probably okay for a LA: +0 race.

If it was for 3.5 though, well it's attribute bonuses should probably add to +0, instead of +2 like they currently do. If you wanted to make the race LA: +0, then yeah, I'd bring down the attributes to +0. If you wanted to make it LA: +1, well maybe add another minor feature.

That being said, Con is basically a universal secondary stat, Cha is often a dump stat, and Int always does your skills points even if you don't use it, and for Wizards this race is about perfect...so it probably doesn't need much to justify an LA of +1.

In any case, getting +2 to another thematic skill is probably appropriate to help round out the race.
They do have an la of 1, and a +2 spellcraft.

Alternatively, crystal shard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crystalShard.htm) at will wouldn't be a bad idea. At certain Hit Dice increments, auto-augment it or add the option to lose your natural armor bonus for a round to augment it or something.

Just a thought.

That is just a bit over the top for this race.

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 03:20 PM
Double post because why not.

Xuldarinar, the Raelgil are a little difficult to add alot of the story side, racial interactions, etc etc, mostly because they are going to be created within the first session (Hopefully) of the campaign. Hopefully, the racial interactions will be shaped, in part, by the players and such.

Lappy9001
2013-08-14, 04:27 PM
The Raelgil still need base land speed, bonus languages, and favored class. Wizard seems like a natural fit, but that's up to you of course.

If you need Craft Wondrous Item to enchant the cryatals, you can't do that until level 5 at the earliest. That's a good thing for racial powers scaling with level, but until then you don't really have anything particularly interesting to make up for that +1 LA.

I'm not sure the Immortality is a good idea. It's basically an open invitation for munchkinery, and you mentioned that the raelgil in the setting are very new, so why even keep it? Elves and Elan are effectively immortal, and it's not mentioned in their stats. Removing it would also give you some room for an extra abilitiy or two.

Also, if they're only a few weeks old, do the existing raelgil consider themselves a unique race, or just mutated elves/humans? Does the race breed true? Can they breed at all? What color are the crystals? They have minds of magic, does that give them an alien view of the world?

Just some things to consider. The race has some potential, for sure :smallsmile:

Cranthis
2013-08-14, 09:29 PM
Also, if they're only a few weeks old, do the existing Raelgil consider themselves a unique race, or just mutated elves/humans? Does the race breed true? Can they breed at all? What color are the crystals? They have minds of magic, does that give them an alien view of the world?

Just some things to consider. The race has some potential, for sure :smallsmile:

Well they aren't even a few weeks old. They will literally be created in the first session of the campaign.

Cranthis
2013-08-15, 03:22 PM
Its time for me to answer some questions about the Raelgil.


You have a race made partially of crystal. Not aging past adulthood does make sense, as does the armor adjustment, and even to an extent their ability enchant their bodies. But beyond that, would being partially made of crystals, of magical origin of course, have any other effect?
The most difficult question first. The best answer is I'm not sure yet, but I am thinking about this. It will probably involve gem magic, from Magic of Faerun.

Being formerly humans and elves, what of their racial identities should remain?
Very little. They are their own new race, with their own ways of thinking and doing things. However, you can consider them to think abit more like humans, with the magical affinity of elves.

What kind of elves, what human and elven cultures were involved, so on?
Cultures that are in my campaign. This question is difficult to answer because both cultures can vary greatly depending on the dm.

How are they perceived by other races and how does this affect their outlook?
They are perceived as strange and new, as appropriate. Gnomes and Elves will be interested greatly, Dwarves will be a bit wary but willing to get along, and Humans can fall anywhere on their like and dislike. Their outlook will be positive but cautious, as they will mostly be shaped by the neutral arcane magic faction (We'll call them AMF for now) of my campaign. Of course, the Raelgil are still individuals (40 individuals to be precise), and will form their own opinions as the game goes on.

Do they have memory of what they were before?
None at all. They have no memory of this, each being a newly created person, with only basic knowledge of things. This is much like amnesia, but cannot be alleviated.

Being made of crystal in part, but formerly humanoids, should they remain humanoids? Become aberrations? Constructs (living construct)? Outsiders?
They will be considered humanoids. If a person has a mutation that causes them to grow scales on their forearms, he/she is still a human.

Also, if they're only a few weeks old, do the existing Raelgil consider themselves a unique race, or just mutated elves/humans?
They will consider themselves a unique race, although a very few may disagree. This will be, in part, due to their interaction with the AMF.

Does the race breed true? Can they breed at all?
Yes and yes.

What color are the crystals?
This depends on the individual, much like skin color. All colors and levels of translucence will be found.

They have minds of magic, does that give them an alien view of the world?
This is answered, for the most part, by the racial identity question. They are different from other races, but not drastically so. On a scale of Human to Mind Flayer, they are alot closer to Humans.

That's all for now. I will be happy to answer any further questions as they come up.

Mithril Leaf
2013-08-15, 06:53 PM
I would strongly consider making them Living Constructs for balance reasons. As is, they are quite weak for +1 LA.

Cranthis
2013-08-15, 10:22 PM
I would strongly consider making them Living Constructs for balance reasons. As is, they are quite weak for +1 LA.

What reasons could that be?

Mithril Leaf
2013-08-16, 04:39 PM
What reasons could that be?

Well, as is, they're basically tieflings with a small racial skill bonus. Tieflings when they're humanoids are +0 LA. +4 Skill Points and +2 Natural Armor aren't worth +1 LA by themselves. Compare your race with a Mineral Warrior Human. You've got +2 net stats, but with less natural armor, less skill points, and no bonus feat. A +1 humanoid is the catfolk which has net +6 stats. A Warforged is a solid +0 LA race which has -2 net stats but the living construct type. Since you can get a net +2 race with +0 LA, and the Living Construct type's example is -2 net stats, you should be able to balance them out like that. Basically it amounts to the race currently being objectively worse than nearly all decent +1 LA races.

Cranthis
2013-08-16, 08:39 PM
Well said. Its now la +0

Vath_The_Spooky
2013-08-16, 09:27 PM
They do look LA +0 as current, but if you wanted to play with their stats more and give them some unique features they could make a better LA+1 race.

As an example, a natural weapon would make sense, either as a slam or a claw (think crystal finger tips).

If their bodies can be "enchanted" some how, how about giving them a racial spell storing ability, which allows them to hold the charge of one spell that was cast into them by an ally(important that it be friendly), which they can release on themselves as a an action of the spells normal casting time or into a foe as part of their natural attack. They can only hold one spell at a time in this manner, and can only store spells of a level equal to one third their HD (minimum 1).

Then give them the Living Construct type.

Would that be overkill for a LA+1 or right on the money?

Either way it sounds an interesting campaign idea.

Mithril Leaf
2013-08-16, 10:03 PM
It's a bit high for +0 LA now, but pretty solid. Now, what my recommendation would be is something that states their racial bonus to intelligence does not count for spell purposes, much like a temporary spell bonus. It makes it less of a wizard powerhouse, and more of a factotum powerhouse, which is a desirable state.

Cranthis
2013-08-17, 03:08 PM
It's a bit high for +0 LA now, but pretty solid. Now, what my recommendation would be is something that states their racial bonus to intelligence does not count for spell purposes, much like a temporary spell bonus. It makes it less of a wizard powerhouse, and more of a factotum powerhouse, which is a desirable state.

Well, one of the points is to finally have a good race an int bonus, as I could never find one. Having it not count for spellcasting makes it kind of pointless.

Mithril Leaf
2013-08-17, 08:35 PM
Well, one of the points is to finally have a good race an int bonus, as I could never find one. Having it not count for spellcasting makes it kind of pointless.

As long as you're aware you're making a race that is objectively now better than nearly any other race for wizards which are objectively better than nearly any other class, then that's cool.

Cranthis
2013-08-18, 03:20 AM
As long as you're aware you're making a race that is objectively now better than nearly any other race for wizards which are objectively better than nearly any other class, then that's cool.

I'm only ok with it because I know my group doesnt play to break. Mostly because they know that when I'm a player, I have to do my best not to break things, and if they break, I will break back.

Cranthis
2013-09-23, 03:51 PM
Thread bump. The campaign is coming closer, and I just want to make sure everything is right with this.

Amnoriath
2013-09-23, 11:01 PM
This race is one of the most powerful I have seen at base. It really isn't the stats that worry me. It is the make your own item on yourself without needing any feats. While not very well explained assuming that they only treat themselves with the feats all this guy needs to do is stick close to the wizard and he would have double the slot items. Being that it uses the generic language of magic item make them wands or pumped concentration checks for Diamond Mind maneuvers.

Cloud
2013-09-24, 04:05 AM
...From what I read of the enchanting crystal ability, they still needed others to enchant them as items as normal, with them taking the same effective slot, so the advantage was never being disarmed/having your stuff stolen. I suppose that ability should be fleshed out a bit more.

Otherwise, well as others have said, this is probably too powerful as a LA +0 race (even ignoring the immortality thing, Wizards and this race want sweet sweet children), but again as already said is a little underwhelming as LA +1.

So yeah, balance wise, it's a bit off, but from your comments this is okay for your game, so the only comment worth highlighting is that the enchanting their crystal body is probably a bit unclear.

Amnoriath
2013-09-24, 08:34 AM
...From what I read of the enchanting crystal ability, they still needed others to enchant them as items as normal, with them taking the same effective slot, so the advantage was never being disarmed/having your stuff stolen. I suppose that ability should be fleshed out a bit more.

Otherwise, well as others have said, this is probably too powerful as a LA +0 race (even ignoring the immortality thing, Wizards and this race want sweet sweet children), but again as already said is a little underwhelming as LA +1.

So yeah, balance wise, it's a bit off, but from your comments this is okay for your game, so the only comment worth highlighting is that the enchanting their crystal body is probably a bit unclear.

It explicitly says they can enchant them. Now, at base this does mean they still need to meet prerequisites but the wizard will have the qualifications except the wizard nor this race needs any feats to do so. This is a huge advantage of WBL.

The Oni
2013-09-24, 10:32 PM
To be honest, the first thing that comes to mind with these guys is alternate racial traits that give them some kind of ability when light focuses through their crystals, and maybe one where the crystals are opaque to make them stealthier.

Also to balance how strong they are you could consider making them vulnerable to Sonic damage, and perhaps more vulnerable to critical hits (crystal is hard but brittle, so a hit at just the right angle will probably do a whole bunch of damage).

Premise sounds cool, but if you want 'em to be LA 0 they're gonna need an obvious weakness.

The Oni
2013-09-24, 10:38 PM
To be honest, the first thing that comes to mind with these guys is alternate racial traits that give them some kind of ability when light focuses through their crystals, and maybe one where the crystals are opaque to make them stealthier.

Also to balance how strong they are you could consider making them vulnerable to Sonic damage, and perhaps more vulnerable to critical hits (crystal is hard but brittle, so a hit at just the right angle will probably do a whole bunch of damage).

Premise sounds cool, but if you want 'em to be LA 0 they're gonna need an obvious weakness.

Cranthis
2013-09-25, 12:55 PM
Shatter messes them up pretty bad, and I don't even have to put it in the description.