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paigeoliver
2006-12-21, 08:17 AM
I made the following class for my campaign world. It seemed very balanced on paper, but seems to be very weak in play, any suggestions?

I don't know how to put the fancy charts on here, but the class has good will and reflex saves, 3/4 BAB and mirrors the sorceror table for spells per day and spells known.

Feyborn Druid

The Feyborn Druid is a person who was born with a mystical connection to nature. They are not druids in the traditional sense, and few of them are ever members of any actual druidical circles. Their power over nature comes from their force of personality and not from their great wisdom.

The vast majority of Feyborn Druids are female. Sages have all sorts of theories as to why this is the case, but nobody is actually sure why. Most Feyborn Druids will first exhibit their powers during childhood.

Adventures: The abilities of the Feyborn Druid are often seen as strange or unnatural in nature. Often their parents fear that their child has been replaced by a changeling of some sort. Because of this many Feyborn Druids leave home at a young age and wander the world. Many of them take to moving from one community or another and blessing their crops, while others take on roles as animal trainers, and still others become traditional adventurers.

Characteristics: Feyborn Druids often put forth an almost supernatural aura of beauty and purity. They usually stand out in a crowd, and many have trouble attempting to lead normal lives. Small woodland creatures often flock to Feyborn Druids and will often follow them around.

Few Feyborn Druids actually live the rough and tumble life that normal druids are used to. They usually live near the forest, but few of them actually live in the wild.

Alignment: Feyborn Druids are always good in alignment, their powers in some form stem from their purity. Neutral good is the most common alignment amongst Feyborn, but Lawful Good and Chaotic Good are also well represented.

Religion: Feyborn Druids tend to be either extremely religious (many focusing on a local nature god or goddess), or not religious at all. They didn’t choose their powers, their powers chose them. Few Feyborn druids actually consider themselves to be any sort of clergy, not even the most devoutly religious ones.

Other Classes: Feyborn Druids work well with most other classes. They particularly get along well with rangers, many of them respecting the ranger’s superior abilities in the wilderness. They do often tend to clash with true druids, as their personal ethics are often very different.

Game Rule Information: In order to be a Feyborn Druid you must take the class at first level. Feyborn Druids are born, not made, and it is not the kind of thing that you can just turn into later in life.

Abilities: Feyborn druids are best served by an extremely high charisma score. Most Feyborn Druids will have a charisma score of at least 16, even in campaigns where ability scores that high are considered unusual. Dexterity is also very important to the Feyborn Druid, as they are not naturally proficient with any type of armor.

Alignment: Any Good.
Hit Die: D8

Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Ride, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim.

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.

Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Feyborn druids are proficient with all simple weapons and no armor. Unlike normal druids, Feyborn Druids have no ethical restrictions keeping them from using other armor or weapons, they simply are not proficient with them.

Alignment Restriction: A Feyborn Druid who ceases to have a good alignment loses all class abilities until her former alignment is restored. No atonement spell is needed, as most Feyborn do not even worship specific gods.

Spells
A Feyborn druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. She may not cast spells with the Evil descriptor. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To cast a spell, the Feyborn druid must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Feyborn druid’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Feyborn druid’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Feyborn druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on the Feyborn Druid class table. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.

A Feyborn druid’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A Feyborn druid begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new Feyborn druid level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on the table below.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered Feyborn druid level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a Feyborn druid can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the Feyborn druid "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level Feyborn druid spell the Feyborn druid can cast. A Feyborn druid may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

Bonus Languages
A Feyborn druid’s bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. Feyborn druids do not receive druidical as a bonus language and cannot learn it without taking a level in the standard druid class.

Animal Companion (Ex)
A Feyborn druid may begin play with an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy, riding or war), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: manta ray, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the Feyborn druid on her adventures as appropriate for its kind.

A Feyborn druids animal companion uses the standard rules for druid animal companions, including advancement, and selecting of more powerful companions.

Feyborn Druid levels stack with levels of other character classes that provide animal companions from the druid list. Feyborn druids also stack with levels of Paladin and other classes that provide special mounts, although a Feyborn druid may not have an animal companion if she chooses to stack her Feyborn Druid levels in order to advance a special mount.

Beauty of the Fey (Ex)
A Feyborn druid gains a +2 bonus on Handle Animal and Diplomacy checks.

Wild Empathy (Ex)
A Feyborn druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Feyborn druid rolls 1d20 and adds her Feyborn druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result.

The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the Feyborn druid and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A Feyborn druid can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty on the check.

Fey Speak (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a Feyborn druid can speak with any natural creatures of the forest (Animals, Dire Animals, and Fey).

Rebuke Animal (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, a Feyborn druid may turn (but not destroy) or rebuke animals as if she was a cleric of equal level.

Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, a Feyborn druid gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like abilities of Fey.

Turn Fey (Su)
At 5th level, a Feyborn druid may turn (but not destroy) Fey creatures as if she was a cleric of equal level.

Venom Immunity (Ex)
At 9th level, a druid gains immunity to all poisons.

A Thousand Faces (Su)
At 13th level, a Feyborn druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell. This affects the Feyborn druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Feyborn druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

Timeless Body (Ex)
After attaining 15th level, a Feyborn druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place.
Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.

icke
2006-12-21, 08:50 AM
As I see it, You essentially swapped druid-kind casting with sorcerer-kind casting and left out the shapechanging abilities? That is definitely weaker than the classic druid, but then the classic druid is one of the most powerfull classes in the game. As far as I see, it should do fine.

You say the class "seems rather weak in play", what do You mean? If You could describe Your problem You'd be already halfway at a solution...

Here's a problem I might see occuring:
The druids' spell list is very wide, there are usefull spells in it for almost every situation but it has no real allround spells(i.e. single spells usefull in almost every situation). So if You restrict the access to spells by employing the sorcerers' Spells Known table you give up a lot of versatility. If that's the core of Your problem, You might want to take the Spirit Shaman approach: Your druid has a Spells Known table similar to the sorcerer, but he can choose his spells known every day from the druids' spell list(via one hour of meditation), just like the classic druid chooses his spells per day. This way he works lik a sorcerer on a dayly basis, but like a druid elsewise.

XtheYeti
2006-12-21, 01:05 PM
Here's a problem I might see occuring:
The druids' spell list is very wide, there are usefull spells in it for almost every situation but it has no real allround spells(i.e. single spells usefull in almost every situation). So if You restrict the access to spells by employing the sorcerers' Spells Known table you give up a lot of versatility. If that's the core of Your problem, You might want to take the Spirit Shaman approach: Your druid has a Spells Known table similar to the sorcerer, but he can choose his spells known every day from the druids' spell list(via one hour of meditation), just like the classic druid chooses his spells per day. This way he works lik a sorcerer on a dayly basis, but like a druid elsewise.
Icke is a wise and powerful homebrewer. his ale, i mean creations are second only to VT and TD1 and that is depending on who you ask. this class is not quite powerful enough. maybe if you gave them some kind of charm ability it would pump them up

MandibleBones
2006-12-21, 01:08 PM
I'd suggest adding Knowledge (Arcana) to the skill list, and possibly Knowledge (Religion) if you're feeling particularly generous.

kakkerlak
2006-12-21, 11:32 PM
it looks reasonable but why would alignment effeect one's inborn abilities?that would be like requiring a sorceror to be good.

kakkerlak
2006-12-21, 11:35 PM
adding shape change would also increase it's usefulness

paigeoliver
2006-12-22, 01:04 AM
I don't want the class to have wild shape. Maybe it should gain a few bonus feats at various levels?

What has happened in play a lot is the lack of versatility. The couple feyborn in the campaign end up melee fighting half the time, because none of their few spells are appropriate to the situation.

I figured the lack of armor restrictions balanced out the lack of proficiency. That really hasn't been a problem. None of the feyborn in the campaign have picked up an armor proficiency yet, but both of them have plans to do so.

Rebuke Animal is slightly better than Trackless step, but "Turn Fey" doesn't even compare to wild shape. Not even a teeny tiny bit, not even 5 percent as good.

Perhaps a slightly better "spells known" table would be the easiest way to improve the class. Maybe giving them the "Summon Nature's Ally" spell from each spell level as a bonus spell?

Or perhaps giving them a domain at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th would be a good solution?

I am leaning towards the domain solution, since it would give a good solid reason to STAY in the class after 5th level, and would put them more on par with regular druids. Although even with the domains the regular druid would stomp this class (since they still don't have wild shape and spontaneous casters usually aren't super crafters like many druids are).

The alignment bit is only because it is a campaign world specific class. If I were writing the class for a generic book then it would probably have more options.

icke
2006-12-22, 06:02 AM
Instead of giving them Domains You should give them the ability to do things with animals and plants. Either something on the line of Summon Nature's Ally spell-like abilities or additional animal companions at higher levels. Don't give them combat abilities, the typical fey is no combatant at all and this class should reflect this property.

If You go with the animal companions, make them weaker than the first:

level 5: second animal companion, as powerfull as for a druid of 3 levels lower

level 10: second animal companion, as powerfull as for a druid of 6 levels lower

level 15: second animal companion, as powerfull as for a druid of 9 levels lower

level 20: second animal companion, as powerfull as for a druid of 12 levels lower

something like this instead of wild shape would be balanced - BUT NOT FOR COMBAT. Don't try to make them as combat-hardy as the druid, rather give them abilities that convey their non-druidness, so to speak.

paigeoliver
2006-12-22, 06:15 AM
Hmmm, I hadn't thought of bonus animal companions. I'll try that out and see how it flies. That is much simpler to take away later if it proves to be unbalancing. Domains would be much harder to retcon out if I added those, since the character might later take things that those domains qualified them for.

Right now we have a second level Feyborn (someone elses) and a 5th level one (mine). This is a multi-GM campaign, although I am the overall head GM. One reason I came to this board for advice on the class is that I needed some objective opinions before changing a class that belongs to one of my characters.

My personal feyborn is going to be a Feyborn 16 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 4. Or I might just take take the class straight all the way up. Right now I have a warhorse animal companion, I'll likely add a dog with my second one. In general I will probably stick with the more "normal" type animal companions, the kind that you can take around in town without having peasants fleeing down the road.

icke
2006-12-22, 06:25 AM
What's the rest of the party? I have to ask, because I still wonder how You always "end up melee fighting".

paigeoliver
2006-12-22, 06:56 AM
The cast of characters changes A LOT. We play 2 days a week, we have 4 different gamemasters, and there are about 12 players and 30 or 40 active characters in the campaign. After a REALLY BAD experience with an 11 person table we now limit our sessions to only 6 players at a time.

So, I can end up matched up with a wide variety of characters.

Also, I probably end up melee fighting more often than I should because I am just a really cinematic type of player. But with this character is has often been this scenario, First round, too many enemies around to start a summon without getting whacked by AOOs, so I spend the round clearing myself a path to the sidelines. Sometimes this takes one round, sometimes multiple. Often times by the time I am ABLE to start a summoning spell it no longer makes any sense to do so. This will get better once I have a FUNCTIONAL concentration check.

Also, I made 5th level at the end of the last game. Until now all I had was like cure light wounds, longstrider (kept that up continuously), and summon nature's ally I and II. But now I have bull's strength and entangle as well, so that should open up my options a bit.

icke
2006-12-23, 07:39 PM
The cast of characters changes A LOT. We play 2 days a week, we have 4 different gamemasters, and there are about 12 players and 30 or 40 active characters in the campaign. After a REALLY BAD experience with an 11 person table we now limit our sessions to only 6 players at a time.

So, I can end up matched up with a wide variety of characters.

Also, I probably end up melee fighting more often than I should because I am just a really cinematic type of player. But with this character is has often been this scenario, First round, too many enemies around to start a summon without getting whacked by AOOs, so I spend the round clearing myself a path to the sidelines. Sometimes this takes one round, sometimes multiple. Often times by the time I am ABLE to start a summoning spell it no longer makes any sense to do so. This will get better once I have a FUNCTIONAL concentration check.

Also, I made 5th level at the end of the last game. Until now all I had was like cure light wounds, longstrider (kept that up continuously), and summon nature's ally I and II. But now I have bull's strength and entangle as well, so that should open up my options a bit.

How can Your character be already surrounded in the first round, do You always start combat next to Your enemies? Spellcasters should stay AWAY from enemies and have other people to do the thwacking and soak up the damage. And when the character is in melee most of the time, get rid of that longstrider and add Shillelagh, Barkskin or Entangle. The first two give melee survivability, the latter keep enemies away. AOO's should be avoidable using five foot steps.
What do You mean with "cinematic"?

paigeoliver
2006-12-26, 12:09 AM
It seems to happen a lot. Although part of that is the guy who is USUALLY DMing when I play that character. He isn't the best with the rules and tends to do lots of auto-ambushes or has the encounters start way too close and such. I have been helping him with things (he is like the number 4 DM in the campaign, so he doesn't run a lot), but it has been slow going. He has been getting a lot better in those areas, but he is still a MASSIVE fan of the "on the road ambush", and those very often end up with the party nicely surrounded first round.

icke
2006-12-28, 10:01 AM
Hmmm... that's nothing that can be fixed with class alterations. I think the Feyborn Druid is fine if You incorporate some of the changes given here, You just have to remember your DM of the existence of the listen skill, or let some party members scout ahead.