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View Full Version : [PF] Cannon Golem Downgrade/GATLING Golem



Ninjaxenomorph
2013-09-11, 10:46 AM
All right, I am theorizing for a campaign, very high magic, practically dungeonpunk, but set in a sparse wasteland. I would be using some tweaked firearm rules (early are martial, others are exotic). A high point I want to have is a siege, with the PCs on the inside, defending against the very competent and very magic-heavy bad guys. This should be taking place at around 10th level. In addition to siege mages (and alchemists) running the siege engines, heavy support would be provided by golems, and I was thinking Cannon Golems.

However, Cannon Golems are CR 15. They have high DR, several nifty special abilities, and high attack and damage. I think it would be simple to downgrade them, though decreasing size is not on the table. I could decrease slam damage and scale down the DR, hit points, and stats so to-hit is not as freakish, but the special abilities are very wierd:

Alloyed (Ex)

A cannon golem's slam and cannon attacks count as adamantine, cold iron, and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Blasting Critical (Ex)

When a cannon golem confirms a critical hit with a slam attack, it can make one cannon attack against that target as a free action (as long as the cannon is loaded).

Cannon (Ex)

The golem's cannon has a range increment of 100 feet and deals 6d6 points of bludgeoning and piercing damage on a hit with a x4 critical modifier. The cannon's magazine can hold up to 20 cannonballs at a timeŚreloading a single cannonball into this magazine is a standard action for the golem, while loading a cannonball into the cannon itself to fire it is a swift action; this allows the golem to take two shots per round with the cannon.

Gun Training (Ex)

A cannon golem adds its Dex modifier to the damage dealt by its cannon.

Immunity to Magic (Ex)

A cannon golem is immune to spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. Certain spells and effects function differently against it, as noted below.

Any spell with the water descriptor that affects a cannon golem renders its cannon unusable for 1 round (no save).
A heat metal spell causes the golem's cannon to instantly backfire, dealing 6d6 points of damage to the golem and staggering it for 1 round (no save).

As its a golem, magic immunity stays, especially with the dual weaknesses. Alloyed could go away (not that useful, plus I could say its cheaper). Blasting Critical might be trouble. The big'un is Gun Training. Reducing the Dex should make it a little better, though, and making the magazine for the cannon much smaller (3-4) would improve the outlook.

The big moment I have planned is the introduction of a civil-war style Gatling gun. Using the rules for Automatic weapons presented in Rasputin Must Die should suffice for this; they attack in a line and make attacks versus each target. For the Gatling Golem, I wanted to change it up.

I don't have the rules off hand, so I don't know what actions it would be to reload a Gatling golem. Something often, a standard or move to reload. I am thinking of a quality to allow more than one attack on a person: when focusing on a single target, the golem rolls 1d6 and gets that many attacks on the target. This would empty the magazine. Also, I would say that the line could be taken horizontally within range, like strafing. This ability would be REALLY nasty with Gun Training, but since the individual attacks are about 1d8-1d12 (not 6d6), a lesser form of Gun Training might work. Also, the spell Grease would haste it for 1 round or remove a misfire, since it would speed up the cylinders. A misfire would reduce the number of attacks and give it the broken condition. Guess who has invisible mages with wands of Grease and construct fixing spells and counter spells prepared? Heheh.

So, any further idea? Or criticisms telling me I am hopelessly wrong, but giving even more helpful advice?

The Mentalist
2013-09-11, 08:49 PM
All right, I am theorizing for a campaign, very high magic, practically dungeonpunk, but set in a sparse wasteland. I would be using some tweaked firearm rules (early are martial, others are exotic). A high point I want to have is a siege, with the PCs on the inside, defending against the very competent and very magic-heavy bad guys. This should be taking place at around 10th level. In addition to siege mages (and alchemists) running the siege engines, heavy support would be provided by golems, and I was thinking Cannon Golems.

However, Cannon Golems are CR 15. They have high DR, several nifty special abilities, and high attack and damage. I think it would be simple to downgrade them, though decreasing size is not on the table. I could decrease slam damage and scale down the DR, hit points, and stats so to-hit is not as freakish, but the special abilities are very wierd:

Alloyed (Ex)

A cannon golem's slam and cannon attacks count as adamantine, cold iron, and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

I would say keep this as is

Blasting Critical (Ex)

When a cannon golem confirms a critical hit with a slam attack, it can make one cannon attack against that target as a free action (as long as the cannon is loaded).

This as well but lower the power of the cannon ability

Cannon (Ex)

The golem's cannon has a range increment of 100 feet and deals 6d6 points of bludgeoning and piercing damage on a hit with a x4 critical modifier. The cannon's magazine can hold up to 20 cannonballs at a timeŚreloading a single cannonball into this magazine is a standard action for the golem, while loading a cannonball into the cannon itself to fire it is a swift action; this allows the golem to take two shots per round with the cannon.

Reduce this to a 5 round clip, 2d6-4d6 damage and a x3 crit and you should be fine.

Gun Training (Ex)

A cannon golem adds its Dex modifier to the damage dealt by its cannon.

Depending on how much you reduce the power of the cannon this can stay or go.

Immunity to Magic (Ex)

A cannon golem is immune to spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. Certain spells and effects function differently against it, as noted below.

Any spell with the water descriptor that affects a cannon golem renders its cannon unusable for 1 round (no save).
A heat metal spell causes the golem's cannon to instantly backfire, dealing 6d6 points of damage to the golem and staggering it for 1 round (no save).

I would widen the holes in the magic immunity, cold renders the cannon unusable that round, fire has a percent chance to set the gun off, and acid reduces natural armor for a few rounds.

As its a golem, magic immunity stays, especially with the dual weaknesses. Alloyed could go away (not that useful, plus I could say its cheaper). Blasting Critical might be trouble. The big'un is Gun Training. Reducing the Dex should make it a little better, though, and making the magazine for the cannon much smaller (3-4) would improve the outlook.

The big moment I have planned is the introduction of a civil-war style Gatling gun. Using the rules for Automatic weapons presented in Rasputin Must Die should suffice for this; they attack in a line and make attacks versus each target. For the Gatling Golem, I wanted to change it up.

I don't have the rules off hand, so I don't know what actions it would be to reload a Gatling golem. Something often, a standard or move to reload. I am thinking of a quality to allow more than one attack on a person: when focusing on a single target, the golem rolls 1d6 and gets that many attacks on the target. This would empty the magazine. Also, I would say that the line could be taken horizontally within range, like strafing. This ability would be REALLY nasty with Gun Training, but since the individual attacks are about 1d8-1d12 (not 6d6), a lesser form of Gun Training might work. Also, the spell Grease would haste it for 1 round or remove a misfire, since it would speed up the cylinders. A misfire would reduce the number of attacks and give it the broken condition. Guess who has invisible mages with wands of Grease and construct fixing spells and counter spells prepared? Heheh.

So, any further idea? Or criticisms telling me I am hopelessly wrong, but giving even more helpful advice?

My comments on how to modify in bold.

Another thought on the DR penetration as I look at it though that that's value really depends on the party but I don't think it makes enough of a difference to be cut for weakness, too situational.

Ninjaxenomorph
2013-09-11, 10:02 PM
The cannon is one of the things I can't really change, because if I do, it stops being a cannon. Those are the actual stats for a cannon, minus the magazine. If I reduce the Dex to the Gun Training, it should still work.

Depending on the party, I might keep Alloyed. They might use Stoneskin often or some other form of DR.

Having cold do the same thing as water seems a little too much. Have it increase the miss chance by 1 for every 10 damage that would have been done might work, as its making the construction brittle.

sengmeng
2013-09-13, 11:21 AM
Whoever made this cannon golem clearly wanted it to be the ONLY unit type you need to conduct a siege. I would remove the Gun Training, and in fact give it a massive dexterity penalty to reflect the fact that SIEGE WEAPONS TARGET BUILDINGS, which are huge and immobile, and being able to easily shoot creatures doesn't make sense. Seriously, it doesn't need to be able to hit higher than AC 10 to do its primary job.

But, despite this being the homebrew section, I wouldn't change the cannon golem, I'd change the story.

Assuming that the cannon golems are an as-yet-unknown threat, before the siege, have the defenders tell the PCs that their spies found out the invaders have ten cannon golems, but don't have them working yet, and haven't transported them to the main army yet. Task the PCs with rushing out to destroy the inactive golems while they're en route to the wizards who can get them running again, and then have the invaders manage to activate one single cannon golem, which if the PCs can destroy it and then the rest, they don't have to face any at the siege (or only one or two, presumably assembled from the wrecked ones).