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qwertyu63
2013-09-11, 12:59 PM
I am (for an upcoming E6 game I might be hosting) making a level 3 version of Teleport. It works as follows:

Backjump
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components V
Casting Time: 5 minutes
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and touched willing creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 50 miles per caster level. Interplanar travel is not possible. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load). As with all spells where the range is personal and the target is you, you need not make a saving throw, nor is spell resistance applicable to you.

You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. In addition, you must have personally been at the destination within the previous 36 hours.

Well, what do you think?

Equinox
2013-09-11, 01:03 PM
Don't worry about the level. It's a plot spell. If the story requires the ability to teleport, it's fine. Otherwise, it may break the plot.

qwertyu63
2013-09-11, 01:07 PM
Don't worry about the level. It's a plot spell. If the story requires the ability to teleport, it's fine. Otherwise, it may break the plot.

I care about the spells level because I want it to be balanced. I am trying to build a teleport spell that won't be a huge jump in power. The goal here is to build a balanced teleport spell at spell level 3. The underlined text is to prevent it from allowing too much plot breaking.

Equinox
2013-09-11, 01:55 PM
I care about the spells level because I want it to be balanced. I am trying to build a teleport spell that won't be a huge jump in power. The goal here is to build a balanced teleport spell at spell level 3. The underlined text is to prevent it from allowing too much plot breaking.Fair enough. Well, let me address the power level then: it *is* a huge jump in power to get it at a level when you don't even normally get Dimension Door. The 5-minute casting time will more often than not be a meaningless drawback, since it's not meant to be a combat spell. If it were a normal D&D game, I would reject this spell offhand.

However, this is not a regular D&D game. This is E6. And in E6, it's not a case of "just wait for a few levels till you get Teleport". If a spell is above 3rd level, you don't get it "a few levels later". You don't get it AT ALL. It doesn't exist in the game world, period.

So, the bottom line would be, accepting or rejecting the spell will be done based on whether you do or do not require such utility to exist in the game world.

Zaydos
2013-09-11, 02:20 PM
I would not allow this in a game simply because I prefer teleportation to wait till higher levels and even if I did I'd make it 4th level.

That said it is no more of a jump than 2nd to 3rd level spells normally is. Its 5 minute casting time takes out any combat power, and the requirement that you have been to the place recently means you can't use it for scry or die tactics or to get to a new region.

Personally, though, I'd lower the distance to 10 or 20 miles per caster level, letting you go far but not more than a man could travel in a week (though due to the 36 hour limit that's rather hard already).

qwertyu63
2013-09-11, 03:23 PM
Why 36 hours? That seems curiously specific, considering spell timers are normally either 24 hours, or "x" days.

It was initially 24 hours, but I increased because... I'm not actually sure why I increased that number. It seemed


Fair enough. Well, let me address the power level then: it *is* a huge jump in power to get it at a level when you don't even normally get Dimension Door. The 5-minute casting time will more often than not be a meaningless drawback, since it's not meant to be a combat spell. If it were a normal D&D game, I would reject this spell offhand.

However, this is not a regular D&D game. This is E6. And in E6, it's not a case of "just wait for a few levels till you get Teleport". If a spell is above 3rd level, you don't get it "a few levels later". You don't get it AT ALL. It doesn't exist in the game world, period.

So, the bottom line would be, accepting or rejecting the spell will be done based on whether you do or do not require such utility to exist in the game world.

I do need it for quite a bit of what I plan to do, so think of that what you will.


I would not allow this in a game simply because I prefer teleportation to wait till higher levels and even if I did I'd make it 4th level.

Due to the unique nature of the game (E6), that is not possible.


That said it is no more of a jump than 2nd to 3rd level spells normally is. Its 5 minute casting time takes out any combat power, and the requirement that you have been to the place recently means you can't use it for scry or die tactics or to get to a new region.

Good, mission accomplished. Avoiding scry and die, combat power and skipping regions was the goal with my changes.


Personally, though, I'd lower the distance to 10 or 20 miles per caster level, letting you go far but not more than a man could travel in a week (though due to the 36 hour limit that's rather hard already).

Eh, the distance was boiler-plate copied from Teleport. I was thinking of cutting the distance, but not that far. I had maybe 30-50 miles/CL in mind. This has been done.

Jyton
2013-09-11, 04:01 PM
So, the first thing that jumps out at me (honestly no pun intended, but I'm going to leave it because I find I like the pun!) is the fact that this is perfectly accurate, no chance of ending up off target. That's... Really nice.

Secondly, if you're looking for a possibly more limited version, you could give your spell a material component. That's what I've done in my game, and I find it works out really nicely. I started by giving it a requirement of 10 gp per mile, which worked out okay, but one of my players, the one who used it the most, wanted it to be more "representative", so we ended up changing it to 5 copper per pound per mile, which works out to 200 pounds per mile for 10 gp, which is enough to transport yourself typically, and you (or they) pay additionally for each person or additional load after that. This means that traveling 1,000 miles -instantly no less- costs you 10,000 gp, I think that's fair.

Take it or leave it, I just wanted to throw my 2c in.


Edit: to clarify, I put the price tag on teleport because the spell was doing WEIRD things to the game economy. This way, it's vastly cheaper to caravan your goods, the tradeoff bring the time it takes. That may or may not be applicable to your game, but even if it's not, putting a material component makes any spell less powerful, period. In a system where you're dealing with a lower overall power level, having that tool at your disposal is useful, which is why I brought it up.

Der_DWSage
2013-09-12, 12:55 AM
Honestly, I'd say there's only one problem still existent with the spell, even in E6-it allows the classic Rope Trick problem of allowing the party to retreat somewhere perfectly safe at any point in time they have 5 minutes to spare. (Well, so long as they don't have more party members than the caster has 3rd level spell slots.)

It's nitpicking, and normally the single passenger limit would overrule my paranoia...but I've recently been GMing for 'creative' players. Perhaps a mild change to the flavor of not allowing a mage to cast this spell more than once per 36 hour period? It can still be worked around by using scrolls/wands or having more than one caster memorize the spell, but at that point, it's more 'proper planning' than it is 'potential abuse.'

One last oddity about it that I only realized while typing the last paragraph, too-this potentially lets you have potions of teleportation. Not game-breaking in the slightest, simply...odd.

Tvtyrant
2013-09-12, 01:12 AM
This would seriously shakeup the economies of the world it was allowed in. If I was a caster I would get the strongestperson I could to carry stuff for me. Two fast horses and a 36 hour time limit means I can ride ever further away from the origin point, teleporting back and forth once each day to maintain my connection and resting. The amount of money I could make teleporting people or trade goods 300 miles each day between two metropolises (more with wands) would be great enough to retire from adventuring forever.

Imagine if they worked together to make a teleporting chain. Start off in a city 9,000 miles away and use 30 different partners set up in a network to get news or goods across the whole world in a day. This becomes even more potent with Eternal Wands; pay 6,000 GP once and a loyal guardsman to jump back and forth between locations every single day. If it is two brawny guards they could bring 500 pounds of cargo across 300 miles in a day and back, which would allow me to make a package program to beat modern UPS. What would people pay to have their goods delivered that day or even that week in a time when it can take years to cross a continent?

tarkisflux
2013-09-12, 01:42 AM
The problems with this spell are basically plot related. I think it's rather decent for an E6 game, but as people have been saying it does change a lot of the stories that can be told. I'd tweak a few things personally, to better fit what I think E6 stories are about, but it really depends on what you're going for.

So, some questions for you to help direct future changes:

1 )Do you want this to be an overland / city-to-city travel spell, a precision travel / advance to dungeon spell, a retreat spell, an advance to dungeon spell, or some combination of those options?

If you want this to be primarily an overland travel / retreat spell, you don't need to let them go anywhere they've been in the last 36 hours. You can use a waypoint system like I did in my rewrite (and like 4e does too I guess) instead. Which also allows you to drop the 36 hour thing, because they're only going to per-determined places and they can't use this to get to the dungeon / whatever unless it's been properly prepared. You could even pair this with the expensive material component trick Jyton suggested if you want to avoid economy concerns as well (though I think his is a bit steep).

And if you want this to be a precision travel / advance to dungeon / go everywhere spell, then the current format is good.

2) Do you want it used once a day, or as many times a day as prepared?

If you want to limit the frequency, just have the spell leave you exhausted for 8 hours and unable to cast any additional spells.

And if you don't care about how often it gets cast, the current format is good.

3) Do you want this to be a party mover (without shenanigans), or a personal mover?

The capacity on this is comparatively low. You can get yourself and one other guy, plus your individual maximum loads. It lets you get a party of people, but only when they've being carried or in a bag of holding or something similar. If you wanted it to be a party mover, you could instead do every un-attached thing withing a 5' radius of yourself, or self + 4 with up to medium load, or something similar.

And if you want it to basically be a personal travel spell (excepting shenanigans), the current format is good.

Ashtagon
2013-09-12, 02:58 AM
Honestly, for a L3 spell, it's still abusable. I suspect that rather than leave it as a spell, use the incantation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). That way, it won't consume memorised spell slots.

Ashtagon's Arcane Apportation
Conjuration (teleportation)

Effective Level: 5th
Skill Check: Knowledge (arcana) DC 20, 5 successes
Failure: Stymied
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 50 minutes (RAW incantation design guidelines says one skill check per caster level, and one check per 10 minutes; feel free to compress this down to one per minute)
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and one willing touched creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


This incantation teleports you and one willing touched creature. The touched creature must be a secondary caster; as such, while they need not be a spellcaster, they must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and able to use aid another to help the primary caster. Secondary casters need not know the spell fully, just enough to aid in the ritual. You may have multiple secondary casters; however, only one can be affected by the incantation.

The maximum range of the teleport effect is 10 miles per level of the primary caster. In addition, the destination must be a site the primary caster has personally been to within the last 36 hours, and must be on the same plane.

Option: The range (either time or distance) can be pushed. Each additional mile of distance for the teleport increases the DC by +1. Each additional hour past 36 hours since the caster last visited the destination increases the DC by 1. These two modifiers stack.

Failure: If the caster fails two consecutive Knowledge (arcana) checks, the caster cannot attempt the ritual again for 24 hours.

Material Component: Diamond dust costing 1 gp per mile to be teleported. (This is to prevent economy abuse; modify it according to campaign needs).

Focus: A roofed gateway, doorway, cave entrance, natural arch formed from living trees, or other such portal. Such a gateway must be present at both start and end points of the teleport.

XP Component: None.

Backlash: After casting the incantation, the caster is exhausted. Additionally, the caster cannot attempt the ritual again for one hour.

Campaign Use: You know this. DC 20 is pretty much the standard DC number for incantations, but the distance, time limit, material component cost, and "push" numbers can be altered to fit campaign needs; I'd suggest the teleport spell as upper limits on its usage though -- and bear in mind the potential to push the spell when setting the upper limit.

LordFluffy
2013-09-12, 09:20 AM
Personally, I think for this sort of spell, instead of having it so that you can teleport to anywhere you've been in the recent past, you should set the destination from the other direction, i.e. the casting of the spell sets up a destination that you can teleport to within a certain time limit. That way, it's more limited in scope and less easily abused.

Imagine your party half dead in a dungeon, deciding to regroup only to teleport back to camp and find themselves surrounded.

I'd also agree in lowering the range to something like 10 or 20 miles per caster level, or 50 for every two at most.