Close Quarters Combat [Feat]

[TheElfLord]

This is inspired by the fighting style of the Roman Legionares.

Close Quarters Combat
Effect: When attacking with a light piercing weapon and wielding a large or tower shield, a character can move into the square of the targe he is attacking (provoking attacks of oppertunity as normal). Targets using 2-handed weapons are unable to attack the character normally and targets using one-handed weapons suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls to hit the character. Targets using a 2-handed weapon can attack the character at a -8 penalty and deal subual damage.

Now I think this needs a little tweaking, so i'm hoping for input form the good peole here.

[Diggorian]

As written, the target can just 5ft step back and full attack on his turn. What combat technique/manuever do you visualize happening when an attacker does this?

[icke]

How do You want this feat to work? Some kind of swift action that allows a five foot step during the targets' turn?
Anyway, I think even if it would be bendable into the rules, this feat is still too strong, since it effectively improves Your characters AC(very powerfull) and/or allows for an attack of opportunity when the target moves out of Your square(also powerfull) - both without any disadvantages on Your characters' side. You have to put in some drawbacks for Your character or at least state under what special conditions this feat is applicable.

merry christmas

[Proven_Paradox]

Well, there is the drawback of being limited to light weapons only and provoking an AoO, but this feat still seems really powerful to me. A rogue (or ninja or any other equivalent class)/Invisible Blade would be almost impossible to hit for anyone wielding larger weapons.

I'd suggest giving it some rather steep prereqs, and either add some sort of penalty (make it a move action so that they can only make one attack or throwing a grapple check in there somewhere, maybe) or reduce the benifits.

[Diggorian]

I'm not really seeing the power of this feat myself.

Attacker comes in provoking AoO; once in, they cause attack penalties for the target; on target's turn, they step out of the square 5ft (which doesnt provoke) and can attack the attacker with a full attack at no penalty (cause the guy is no longer in the same square). That's why I asked ElfLord what he sees this modeling.

Improved grapple is the feat I'd use in a similar scenario. The +4 it gives counters the penalty for using light weapons in a grapple, the target cant use one or two handed weapons at all, and if they escape on their turn they cant attack. You can then close and grapple again.

[Triaxx]

Add an opposed strength chegk, such that if the target succeeds and repels the attacker, the attacker is subject to an AoO, but only from the target. This AoO occurs whether or not all other possible AoO's have been expended.

If the target fails the check, they roll to attempt a grapple, and if successful, the attacker subjects the target to the penalties. If not the attacker is counted as flat-footed until his/her next action.

[erewhon]

This is sort of the opposite of the "Close Quarters Fighter" feat from the Complete Warrior book? At first, I thought that was what you were talking about. :D

That said, this seems very similar to an armed grapple you're setting up here. In which case, aren't there tons of feats that already do this, or things very similar? The PHB2 and Complete Warrior both have feats of interest, I suspect.

[unlit.candle]

You may think about adding a feature that makes your opponents terrain harder to move through or force them to move out 10 feet if this technique is used.
Would you be adding a size limit onto the feat? ie: Small or medium only.

[TheElfLord]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have made a couple changes to the requirements, so the feat now looks like this:

Close Quarters Combat
Effect: When attacking with a light piercing weapon and wielding a large or tower shield, a character can move into the square of the targe he is attacking (provoking attacks of oppertunity as normal). Targets using 2-handed weapons are unable to attack the character normally and targets using one-handed weapons suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls to hit the character. Targets using a 2-handed weapon can attack the character at a -8 penalty and deal subual damage.

Now characters must be using a light piercing weapons, and carry at least a large shield. I still do not have a solution to the person just taking a 5 ft step back, but as this feat is designed for pitch battle situations, people would not likely have much movement capabilities. I am still thinking about it however, and welcome further suggestions.

[Diggorian]

The target could on his turn 5ft step into the square the attacker just left.

What effect are you looking to create? Seems another feat likely can duplicate it. Shield Charge from Complete Warrior lets you charge someone with your shield and if you hit you can try to trip them without provoking AoO and they cant try to trip you back.

Is this like what ya want?

[TheElfLord]

What I am looking for, as stated in the first sentence of the thread, is a feat that helps mimic the fighting style of the Roman legions. They were able to crush the barbarians of Europe, often with inferior numbers. Their main weapon was the gladius, a short stabbing sword. The reason I created this feat is that in DnD, magic aside, a group of guys with short swords are going to lose to a group of guys with great swords almost every time. The reason the Romans were sucessful is that they were able to push in close to their oppenents, where their short stabbing swords worked fine but the barbarian's long one or two handed swords were ineffective. The feat is desinged for a pitched battle circumstance, with large groups fighting large groups. So thats the basic premise and background to what I am trying to do.

[Diggorian]

Trounce the Fallen
Using classical Roman techniques, a foe can be brought to your mercy.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Shield proficiency, Improved Shield bash
Benefit: If you have a heavy or tower shield readied and succeed in knocking an opponent prone with an Overrun, you may make an Immediate grapple check to pin the target you just knocked prone.
You may use a heavy shield to add a +2 to this grapple check, but in doing so you loose the shield bonus to AC.
If proficient with a tower shield, you may use it to add a +4 to this grapple check, but may not use it to gain total cover (keep the AC bonus).
If you succeed, the target is pinned and considered grappled.
If your grapple check beats the target's by 5 pts. or more, on your next turn you gain the 'Attack with a light weapon' grapple option on your target.
If you fail this grapple check, the prone target has avoided the pin and is not considered grappled.

Roma Victore!!!