Wizardry Tabletop

[Philemonite]

A bunch of random thoughts that will be turned into something coherent one day.:smallwink:

[Henrideveroux]

I was thinking it would be easier to convert 7 rather than 8 since the attribute scores in seven only go up to 20 rather than 100. Of course that would require a wizardry 7 conversion of the Gadgeteer, but I think it would be simpler in the long run.

[Philemonite]

I was thinking of scaling the attributes down.

The big question is is the attributes or D&D abilities. I think Wizardry has done a great thing by splitting Dexterity and Speed.

I think that HP are best done in 4e style, fixed starting HP and fixed gains.

[Henrideveroux]

Makes sense to me. I would definitely stick with the wizardry attributes, dexterity effects if you hit, strength determines how hard you hit, and speed affect armor class as well as initiative. Having very little experience with 4th edition, I am not sure how to address your hp suggestion, but it seems to me that that would make a character a little too static for my tastes.

A serious brain scratcher for me has been how many bonus ability points to give at character generation. That is to say the random number of points you can attribute to abilities after selecting a race but before selecting a profession to meet its minimum requirements.

[Philemonite]

In D&D Dex is a god, so attributes it is.:smallwink:

You still get a constitution(Vitality) bonus to your HP, and HP in Wizardry are already fixed.

Starting with 9 in every attribute and about 30 points to distribute. This would make it a little above 13 average.

Skill points should definitely be split in three groups (weapon, physical and academia)

Learn through practice is a little tricky.
I could just skip it, and make max ranks in a skill=character level, like in pathfinder, or I could try to implement it, but make the game easy to exploit.

Oratory controls power level and casting skill(Alchemy, Theology, Theosophy, Thaumaturgy) controls highest spell level.

[Henrideveroux]

Skill points should definitely be split in three groups (weapon, physical and academia)

Learn through practice is a little tricky.
I could just skip it, and make max ranks in a skill=character level, like in pathfinder, or I could try to implement it, but make the game easy to exploit.

Oratory controls power level and casting skill(Alchemy, Theology, Theosophy, Thaumaturgy) controls highest spell level.

Note: this will be my last post for today because I have to go to bed.
I like the idea of keeping the skills to three categories: physical, weapon, and academia. To add some randomness to the characters I would suggest that each profession have a primary (d10), secondary(d6), and tertiary (d4) skill set. These are rolled together at level up. They may be rerolled one time but /must/ be rerolled together.

(Question : Should bouns skill points be awarded for high intelligence scores?)
( Question: should there be a cap on the number of points that can be put in any one skill per level?)
Base attack bonus directly relates to the individual weapon skills. For every five point invested in a weapon skill, increase the base attack bonus of that skill by +1. Additional attacks are given after every five base attack bonus points. So. A character attacking with a longsword who has 30 sword skill points Would have a base attack bonus of +6/+1.
( Question: should shield skill points directly effect armor class or should there be some form of "block attack"?)

The only way I see learning through training working is if the person does a natural 20 on the first attempt on an out of combat skill check. They may also gained a skill points on any in combat skill checks, or confirmed critical hits, however they can only gain one skill point per combat this way. For example: a bard who receives a natural 20 on their music check to use their poets lute, then performs a critical hit with their short sword, may choose to receive either a sword or a music skill point.

Lastly, just for clarity's sake, I would change oratory to concentration as Alchemist have no oral components to their spells.

[Philemonite]

Good night or good morning.

Primary, secondary and tertiary skill group is an interesting idea, I like it.
Intelligence already affects all casting skills except Theology, allows Powercast(probably) and affects most physical skills (Pickpocket, Locks and Traps, Music...).
As for the cap, I'm thinking level*2 with max of 50. Training can go beyond this cap.
That's what I was thinking, no BAB, just weapon skills. With every skill getting a attribute bonus it will make some builds natural.
Strength is good for Swords, but if you want to go for a Dagger you better have the Dexterity for it.

I have a idea for AC: Splitting it into dodge and damage reduction. So, Shield and Armor would give DR, and Dex/Spe and Stealth would give you dodge bonus.

An extra skill point on a critical is an excellent idea.

But oratory is a traditional skill.:smallwink:

[Henrideveroux]

After reviewing my notes on my own attempt at this, I think maybe you'd want to add a 4th set of skills. Physical, weapons, academia, and social. The social category would include diplomacy, Bluff, intimidation, seduction, and sense motive.
Additionally I would suggest that religion, alchemy, psionics, and wizardry would function both as the level
where spell casters get their spells as well as the equivalent of "knowledge: religion", "knowledge: alchemy", ect.
Also, I think that Bards from Pathfinder/D&D may br the better way to go. Just a thought.

[Philemonite]

Physical

Ranged Combat
Oratory Concentration
Shield
Dual Weapons
Two-Handed
Locks & Traps
Pick Pocket
Critical Strike
Stealth

Weapon

Sword
Dagger
Staff & Wand
Mace & Flail
Polearm
Axe
Martial Arts
Bow
Throwing & Sling
Modern Weapons

Academic

Alchemy
Theology
Theosophy
Thaumaturgy
Fire
Water
Earth
Air
Mental
Divine
Music
Engineering
Artifacts
Mythology
Communication
Scouting(Perception)

Social

Intimidate
Seduction
Diplomacy
Bluff
Insight

[Henrideveroux]

sorry for the long delay between post real life has been chaotic evil >_<.
Character race breakdowns.
HUMAN
Humans are the bar by which every other species is measured. Their stats are balanced, giving them no severe weaknesses, though also no unequivocal strength. No matter what profession a human might enter, they are ever capable companions. Physically, humans are medium-sized creatures, with the males average in between 5'8" & 6'2" tall and females between 5'2" and 5'10" tall. Skin tone varies from very pale to dark brown.

Strength:9
Dexterity:9
Vitality:9
Speed:8
Intelligence:8
Faith:8
Personality:8
Resistances Humans have no elemental resistances, but receive +1 to all saves.


ELVES
Lithe and graceful in all things, the sheer beauty of many elves leaves some creatures breathless. Naturally intelligent and impossibly curious it is no wonder that many a young elf choses to follow the call of adventure. Elves range in height between 5 foot 6 inches and six foot tall for the males and 5 foot tall and 5 foot 8 for the females. There are two main tribes of elves. The day elf are fair skinned and fair haired, and the night elf which are extremely dark skinned and black haired.

Strength 7
Dexterity 9
Vitality 7
Speed 9
Intelligence 10
Faith 10
Personality 7
Resistances +5 vs mental


DWARF
Dwarves are a hearty cave-dwelling people. Their short stature may fool one into thinking they are weak, but believe that at your own peril. it is difficult for an outsider to tell at a glance the gender of a dwarf, as both males and females are equivalent in height, about 4 foot 10 to 5 foot 4, approximate build, and approximate fullness of beard. Most Dwarves have a swarthy skin tone, as the dirt had been the ground into their skin for generations.

Strength 11
Dexterity 7
Vitality 12
Speed 7
Intelligence 6
Faith 10
Personality 7
Resistances +1 vs magic, +5 Vs poison


GNOMES
Native of the mountainous regions, Gnomes are a highly devout and pious species. Constantly I
They find themselves called to seek new adventures, sights , and experiences. Gnomes, both male and female, range in size from 3 foot 8 inches to 4 foot 10 inches tall and tend to have lean willowy appearances. Their hair tends to be either shades of brown or green, and their skin often resembles bark.

Strength 10
Dexterity 8
Vitality 10
Speed 6
Intelligence 7
Faith 13
Personality 6
Resistances +2 vs all magic.


Real life is interrupting again, will add more later.

EDITED FOR NEATNESS

[Philemonite]

Since there is already Piety and Intelligence I think it would be better to go with Senses instead of Personality. It can still affect Theosophy, but it also affects some ranged weapons. Psions make mean throwers.:smallwink:

This chart (http://www.jeffludwig.com/wizardry8/races.php) very helpfully lists all attributes and resistances for every race.

I still think humans should be completely balanced, so all 9s would fit better.
Bonus to Rex, For and Will is a must.
Recommended profession should be any.

I think elves should go with 7/10/7/9/11/10/9.
Alternatively, they could have penalty to Str and Vit and bonus to Int and Dex/Pie.
Elves make great Mages, Alchemists and Rangers.
+1 Will and +1 Reflex sounds right to me.
+10 Mental and +5 Air resistance.

Dwarfs are tricky. They have high Vit, Str and Pie, but everything else is low.
Int penalty is a must, but I'm nit sure what fits better, Spe or Dex.
+1 Will and +1 Fort
+10 Fire resistance
Fighter, Valkyrie, Lord

Your Gnome looks wrong to me.
Bonus to Int and Vit/Dex and penalty to Spe and Str.
+2 Will?
+10 Earth and +5 Mental resistance.
Mage, Alchemist

[Henrideveroux]

First let me say I apologize for the length of time between post, real life has been a nightmare. Secondly that I've been using come directly out of the Wizardry 7 manual.The resistances slightly converted. I was treating every five percent of a resistance into a plus one bonus. So first I'm going to finish that, then we can compare and contrast. As for switching personality with senses, why not just keep both and have an array of eight attributes instead of seven?
Either way I would say personality is vital to most social skills. Anyway these are the ready of the Wiz 7 stats.

Hobbit

With fingers nimble enough to get them into almost any sort of trouble, And a beguileing charm and wit to allow them to talk their way back out of it again, Hobbit seem naturals for the adventurers lifestyle. They range in size from 4'10" to 5'4"tall. They usually have short, extremely curly hair, large eyes and extremely large feet.
Str: 8
DEX: 10
VIT: 9
SPD: 7
INT: 7
FAI: 6
PER 13
Resistances +2 to all forms of magic

Fairies

Etheral and graceful, fairies were often thought of as the creatures of childrens dreams until quite recently. Creatures of the forest, they are lithe and small, beautiful and delicate. They have blue or pink skin, depending on their gender, and have any color of the rainbow. There gossamer wings closely resemble a butterfly's. The average fairy dance only 2 to 2 and a half feet tall, and rarely weighs more than 10 to 15 pounds. As a result they gained a +2 miscellaneous modifier to natural AC but are severely limited in the weapons and armor they can use.
STR: 5
DEX: 10
VIT: 6
SPD: 14
INT: 11
FAI: 6
PER: 12
Resistances : +2 to all magic.


Lizardmen


Massive Hulking creatures, most lizard men are born to make war and they are exceptionally good at it. Kept for centuries as slaves and gladiators, tribes of free lizardmen are powerful warriors and fierce allies. Lizardman Females tend to stand between 6 feet 8 inches tall and 6 feet 11 inches tall, Whereas the males can reach sizes of 7 foot 2 inches to foot 1 inch tall. They are hairless with scales covering most of their body.
STR: 12
DEX:8
VIT:14
SPD:10
INT:5
FAI:5
PER:3
Resistances +5 vs. Fire, +5 vs. Mental


Dracon


As closely related to feral dragons as humans are to chimpanzees, They are just as likely to Be offended by The comparison. Drakes range on color from muddy brown to vibrant green, with one to three "egg teeth" along the top of their snout. They range in height from 6'2"-6'10". As a full round action that does not provoke an AoO Dracons can use a breath attack fireing a 15' cone of Acid for 1d6 per 4 lvls once every 2d4 rounds.
STR:10
DEX:10
VIT:12
SPD:8
INT:7
FAI:6
PER:6
Resistances Mental +5 Earth +5


Rawulf

Devoted and faithful, a Rawulf is a loyal and trustworthy companion. Descended from canines, Rawulf come in all sizes and can resemble anything from wolves and foxes to Scotties and German shepherds. they have extremely thick and luxurious codes that make them highly resistant to cold.
STR :8
DEX:8
VIT:10
SPD :6
INT:6
FAI:12
PER:10
Resistances +5 water +5 Divine


Felpurr


Slender, sleek, graceful, and lightning fast, Felpurr have many things in common with their other feline cousins. Like The Rawulf, they tend to come in all sizes and can resemble anything from a tabby or calico, to a lion, tiger, Panther, or Leopard. more than any other species, Felpurr tend to use speed, agility, and Grace more than brute strength or magical prowess to attack their opponents.
STR:7
DEX:10
VIT 7
SPD 12
Int 10
FAI 7
Per 10
Resistances Magic +1 missiles+5


Okay that's all the races I think. Here are the Senses for each race.
human 9
elf 8
dwarf 7
gnome 9
Hobbit 10
fairy 9
Felpurr 10
Rawulf 10
Lizardman 5
Dracon 5
Mook 11. I'll try to get professions in soon, but would love your input thus far.

[Philemonite]

Some races have too high/low stat, Lizardmen have Vitality 14(which is very high) and Personality 3(and that's way too low). Also, some races have higher stat total(like Felpurr).
I think that pathfinder point buy and +2/-2 modifiers would be better.

[Henrideveroux]

Going to a point buy system completely tosses out the essence of wizardry character generation. Thus I've spent most of the morning rebalancing the stats of the various characters. This was actually surprisingly easy if you keep both the senses and personality stats. With very little tweaking I was able to hit everybody at a target number of 70 creation points. So Here is what I came up with.

Human
Str9
Int8
Pie 8
Vit 9
dex 9
spd 9
sen 9
per9
total 70
Elf
STR 7
Int 10
Pie 10
VIT 7
DEX 10
SPD 9
SEN 8
Per9
Total
Dwarf
STR 11
int 7
Pie 11
VIT 13
DEX 7
SPD 7
SEN 7
Per 7
Total 70
Gnome
STR 9
Int 9
Pie 10
VIT 10
DEX9
SPD 7
SEN 9
Per 7
Total 70
Hobbit
STR 8
Int 7
Pie 6
VIT 9
DEX 10
SPD 7
SEN 10
Per 13
total 70
Fairy
STR 5
Int 10
Pie 6
VIT 6
DEX 10
SPD 12
SEN 9
per 12
total 70
Felpurr
STR 7
Int 8
Pie 6
VIT 7
DEX 10
SPD 12
SEN 10
per 10
Total 70
Rawulf
STR8
Int 6
Pie 11
VIT 10
DEX 7
SPD 8
SEN 10
Per 10
Total 70
Lizardman
STR 12
Int 6
Pie 6
VIT 14
DEX 10
SPD 10
SEN 6
Per 6
Total 70
Dracon
STR 11
Int 7
Pie 8
VIT 12
DEX 10
SPD 8
SEN8
Per 6
Total 70
Mook
STR 10
Int 10
Pie 6
VIT 10
DEX 7
SPD 7
SEN 11
Per 9
Total 70

Whew, okay that's done. At this point the biggest problem I see is how close the Lizardman and the dracon are in stats. my suggestion actually is to drop the Dracon, as their breath weapon is rather unbalancing. After all the only other race with a racial abilities are the fairy and that comes from thore status as small creatures. Perhaps we need to give each race a racial ability or bonus?

[Philemonite]

I don't like that Rawulf have so low Int, but that's just my personal opinion, since I love Rawulf.:smallwink:

The way I see it, Lizardman have higher Str and Vit, but lower everything else.

Every race should get some special bonus, as well as some defense/resistance. I will work on that when I get some time.