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Wolfie_1066
2006-12-31, 02:00 PM
Yeah Yeah i know im pretty sure theres a thread around here somewhere stateing this but i just need to ask...why dident redcloaks distruction should have killed Miko after the harm spell was used. i know im sort of stateing the obveous but as far as i know harm is supost to lower the targets hp to 1-4 hps so she should have died if the destruction lost the first throw then it could do normal damage right?

so im just curious so im setting up a poll...who else here thinks from those circomstances that miko should have rolled over and croaked? :smalltongue: im sure theres more then just me heres a link below so you can look yourself: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html

hyikim
2006-12-31, 02:06 PM
I Hate Miko!!!!!!

Cubey
2006-12-31, 02:10 PM
That was SO 2nd edition. Harm deals 10 damage/level now. Half on a succesful saving throw, which Miko probably did anyway, since her saves are so high.

So, for spite all the Miko haters out there, no rule was broken. Nyah.

EDIT: Hyikim, very informative and in-depth post. I'm sure everyone appreciates it.

L˛kki Gallansbayne
2006-12-31, 02:12 PM
Check the spell's description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm) again, Harm is 10 damage per caster level (will save for half), so it's entirely possible that Miko could've survived both spells.

EDIT: ninja'd, as believe the saying goes.

As for the 2.0 thing, it also drops the target to 1d4 HP in NWN, which is based off 3.0. But then Bioware seem to like changing rules arbitrarily, so that doesn't count for much.

Mawhrin Skel
2006-12-31, 02:13 PM
I believe she heals herself in the 8th panel before being hit with Destruction. In any case, we don't know how many HP she has - she could have survived both spells. If she made the save from Harm, she would have taken at most 75 damage. Destruction (saved against, obviously) is 10d6 damage. 135 damage max with both saves, 210 with only Destruction saved against.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/destruction.htm

Wolfie_1066
2006-12-31, 02:17 PM
Okay sorry...i have almost never played PNP with 3.5 rules and only NWN i feel so stupid but oh well...i WISH i could do PNP i love it but *sigh* nevermind

L˛kki Gallansbayne
2006-12-31, 02:17 PM
I believe she heals herself in the 8th panel before being hit with Destruction. Ah yes, it would seem you're right. Nice to someone's been keeping up their spot checks. :smalltongue:
Okay sorry...i have almost never played PNP with 3.5 rules and only NWN i feel so stupid but oh well...i WISH i could do PNP i love it but *sigh* nevermind Don't worry, I'm a huge NWN addict myself. I only started playing PNP recently and I used to get rules mixed up constantly the first few times. I know exactly how you feel.

Wolfie_1066
2006-12-31, 02:24 PM
Ah yes, it would seem you're right. Nice to someone's been keeping up their spot checks. :smalltongue: Don't worry, I'm a huge NWN addict myself. I only started playing PNP recently and I used to get rules mixed up constantly the first few times. I know exactly how you feel.

at least you get to PLAY PNP i cant even find 1 person to play with so i cant play at all...lucky :smalltongue:

Shadic
2006-12-31, 02:59 PM
I still think that the battle would be in the least, very much closer if Redcloak hadn't turned his back on Miko when trying to talk to Xykon.

I mean, how much damage do you think Miko was able to get in when he wasn't paying attention?

Kaerbek
2006-12-31, 04:33 PM
Face it, Miko will come back as a minion of Xykon..., that's why they didn't kill her... (Xykon himself would have ended her life with just a word, but he didn't) and even if she doesn't come back as a Black Guard, just Paladin fare and square, Belkar will still try to make Miko loose here Paladin powers anyway, so it will be easier for him to kill her.

Besides, wether "technically" Miko should have died in that strip, Rich needs her to continue the plot, remember she "swore" to kill the whole Oots for their "crimes" and mock to "justice", so, she won't die so easily being as stuborn as she is with her promises

Weebl
2006-12-31, 07:25 PM
Argh! Another poll another hatred of Miko! But she lived so I can hate here more!

Demented
2006-12-31, 08:00 PM
Well, by now it's not unlikely that Miko should have failed a save.
But then, as a story, people never fail saves unless the story wants them to.
All is well in ootsland.

PaladinFreak
2007-01-01, 12:42 AM
Yeah... Harm really has way too powerful in previous editions. Personally, I am happy with the change.

As for Miko dieing, no matter what the rules say, if Rich wanted her to survive, she would, and if he wanted her to die, she would also. So it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

Ampersand
2007-01-01, 01:20 AM
Miko, being a fairly important character, has a certain amount of plot immunity. So she'll only really have to be concerned if Xykon or Redcloak learn to cast Summon Cutscene.

Demented
2007-01-01, 01:39 AM
Summon Cutscene is a bard spell.

Kish
2007-01-01, 11:06 AM
Well, by now it's not unlikely that Miko should have failed a save.

The saving throws of a monk/paladin are pretty hard to beat.

Talyn
2007-01-01, 11:13 AM
Yeah, especially because we know Miko's CHA is at least 16, which means that Divine Grace adds to the already damn impressive paladin saving throws...

Amon Star
2007-01-01, 11:59 AM
I still think that the battle would be in the least, very much closer if Redcloak hadn't turned his back on Miko when trying to talk to Xykon.

I mean, how much damage do you think Miko was able to get in when he wasn't paying attention?

Ok, let's see. Assuming Str 13, Level 14 Paladin, +4 Katana, Power Attack for half and no crit. The average a D10 is 5.5, so lets say 6. She would then get another +1 from Str, +14 from Smite Evil, +4 from the Katana and another +8 from the Power Attack. That's a total of 33.

If it was a crit then it would be 65. Ouch.

Psyke_D
2007-01-02, 09:37 AM
Im probably not the first mentioning it, but the whole miko wanting to kill OOTS is very much like Jail Waiden Maiev Shadowsong's rage in the wc3 campaign. She starts out as a do-gooder, but ends up being consumed by her hatred for illidan, and goes agains the direct order of Malfurion Stormrage (following illidan into outland if i remember corect).

eh.. sry for offtopic.

Wolfie_1066
2007-01-02, 11:04 PM
yeah i guess eveyones right...im so stupidly used to NWN spells that i know harm as being VASTLY overpowered...so i guess she would live. and as for her surviveing cause rich wanted her too i also agree so i guess eveyone else is right :smallsmile: the thing is i was just thinking she could come back anyway, cause of a raise dead or even a miricle from her gods. so anyway im going to say miko is most certainly going to go all blackguard on the OOTS her holy blue light will eventually turn dark! she will before a embodyment of evil just as luke skywalker once did!

Demented
2007-01-03, 12:40 AM
Im probably not the first mentioning it, but the whole miko wanting to kill OOTS is very much like Jail Waiden Maiev Shadowsong's rage in the wc3 campaign. She starts out as a do-gooder, but ends up being consumed by her hatred for illidan, and goes agains the direct order of Malfurion Stormrage (following illidan into outland if i remember corect).

eh.. sry for offtopic.

Actually, unless I missed something, Maiev didn't fall that much. Which is to say, there's nowhere to fall; she's a two-dimensional Warden character with a single-minded desire to detain Illidan. As well-written as Miko? Nah.

Skyserpent
2007-01-03, 04:41 AM
GRAH! No more Miko-h4t3 threads! Or Miko support threads that inevitably draw Miko Haters! My mind reels...

As for the topic, No, Miko shouldn;t have died because if she did, I wouldn't have anyone to aim pure and possibly unjustified rage against.

I would have been fine if she DID die but from a literary standpoint, that's a crappy death, I mean, I figure the main characters ought to be around to SEE it at least. that immediately cuts short Belkars little prophecy. Just a smidgen.

Tharj TreeSmiter
2007-01-04, 01:11 PM
I think 369 worked out fine but come on she should have been much more injured than she was in 374

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html