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Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-01, 01:14 PM
The Way of the Giant
Skill Bonus: Intimidate
1st Level Bonus Feat: Improved Natural Attack
2nd Level Bonus Feat: Lunging Strike
6th Level Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (unarmed strike)
Special Ability: Your reach increases and you gain bonuses to bull rush, disarm, overrun, and trip attempts as if you were one size category larger, but only when fighting unarmed. Prerequisites: Intimidate 9 ranks, Power Attack.

Way of the Poison Dart Frog
Skill Bonus: Spot
1st Level Bonus Feat: Rapid Reload
2nd Level Bonus Feat: Deflect Arrows
6th Level Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (light crossbow)
Special Ability: You treat the light crossbow as a special monk weapon. Also, you gain the ability to deflect or catch a number of projectiles per round equal to 1 + your Wisdom modifier. You can immediately load a light crossbow and fire it when you catch a crossbow bolt. Prerequisites: Spot 9 ranks, Snatch Arrows.

Kevka Palazzo
2007-01-01, 05:28 PM
Actually, unarmed strikes aren't treated as natural weapons...I learned that when I played a shifter monk (worst...idea...ever). A better choice might be Improved Critical (unarmed) or something along those lines.

The Demented One
2007-01-01, 06:15 PM
Yes they are. It quite specifically says they count as both natural and manufactured weapons.
A monks unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-01, 06:33 PM
Yeah, making unarmed strikes a reach weapon is a bad idea. FLurry of Blows without getting within someone's threatened area? Besides, monks' most powerful weapons are their unarmed strikes, and giving them large damage is seriously overpowered without a level adjustment, which I'm fairly certain is unheard of for a fighting style.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-08, 08:51 AM
Maximized empowered admixed twinned delayed blast fireballs without getting within someone's threatened area? What?

And Improved Natural Attack gives them large damage by itself; the special ability increases this to huge damage.

I am prefectly prepared to accept that giving them damage as if they were two sizes larger is overpowered. In that case, I would need something else to fill out the special ability.
[hr]
I have altered the Way of the Giant; the 6th level bonus feat is now Imp Crit (unarmed), and Power Attack is a prerequisite for the special ability, which no longer affects damage.

I still fail to see why giving monks reach with unarmed strikes is such a bad idea, however.

Any comments on the second, currently unnamed style?

*bumps*

mikeejimbo
2007-01-08, 09:28 AM
I still fail to see why giving monks reach with unarmed strikes is such a bad idea, however.

I have to agree. Many enemies are large anyway, at least the ones my DM throws at us.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 01:54 PM
So, nobody can explain to me why giving monks reach is such a bad idea? Or admit that it's not such a bad idea after all? I mean, we're talking about monks, here. Goodness knows they need the boost, which is one of the reasons the styles I make tend to grant powerful special abilities.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-18, 02:12 PM
Monks have ranged flurry. It's called the shuriken, which (last I checked) was a ranged special monk weapon, and was therefore flurriable.

Crossbow's cooler, though.

Might I recommend "Way of the Poison Dart Frog"?

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 02:20 PM
Nice. It doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but I like it.

Hannes
2007-01-18, 02:39 PM
How about making a Way of the ber Leet Haxor? Nah just kidding...

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 03:29 PM
Now I have to, though.

Way of the ber Leet Haxor
Skill Bonus: All of them. Yes, all of them.
1st Level Bonus Feat: All of them. Yes, all of them.
2nd Level Bonus Feat: Yes, those ones too. And all the ones that stack with themselves, take those again.
6th Level Bonus Feat: Look, what part of "all of them" didn't you understand the first time? Oh, and the stacking thing? Yeah, do it one more time.
Special Ability: From this point on, your base attack bonus increases by one every time you gain a level, you gain maximum hp from every hit die, all your ability scores become 18s, and you gain the ability to cast spells and manifest powers as a cleric, wizard, and psion of your monk level. Your caster and manifester level is 1337. Prerequisites: None.

Edit: How do you do the umlaut?

Hannes
2007-01-18, 03:32 PM
You forgot that it increases your monk level by two.;)

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 03:37 PM
Nah. I think it's fine as is.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-18, 03:53 PM
I think that your caster level for save DCs should be considered 1337.

But back on topic, I agree it's not such a bad idea.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 03:59 PM
Oh, good call. *goes to edit*

Does anyone know how to do umlauts?

Fax Celestis
2007-01-18, 04:03 PM
Alt+0252 on the number pad should do it.

mlts r cl.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-18, 04:04 PM
I can't do the capital one, but I believe the lowercase is alt+0252. Or something.

Let me check.

Ha! I was right about the lowercase one. And the capital is alt+0220.



Edit: Gah, ninja'd!

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 04:14 PM
*sigh* No number pad on laptop = no umlauts for me.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-18, 04:17 PM
Have you got a character map? You can copy/paste it from there.

InaVegt
2007-01-18, 04:17 PM
Some language packs tmtcll place them with certain combinations, I can get them by typing " and a vowel after that.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-18, 04:20 PM
*sigh* No number pad on laptop = no umlauts for me.

You don't have an Fn key? One that turns part of your keyboard to a number pad?

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 04:47 PM
You don't have an Fn key? One that turns part of your keyboard to a number pad?

Oh, so that's what that key is for....

mlat. :smallbiggrin:

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-18, 05:31 PM
So, nobody can explain to me why giving monks reach is such a bad idea? Or admit that it's not such a bad idea after all? I mean, we're talking about monks, here. Goodness knows they need the boost, which is one of the reasons the styles I make tend to grant powerful special abilities.
I agree that monks need the boost at lower levels, being undoubtedly weak before their versatility starts kicking into gear, but ten foot threatened area is a bit much. Imagine what that can do for parties that know how to use teamwork. The fighter gets in close with a full attack and the monk from ten feet away with a flurry of blows. The fighter would take too long to take out for the opponent to survive and to hit the monk would mean taking an AoO from the fighter. Not only that, bur I'm a bit worried about justification: how does a monk attack something ten feet away with limbs that are four feet long at most?

That is a good ability and creative, I'll admit, but large damage is out of the question, IMO. 4d8 damage>>>2d10 damage. Learned that lesson when I made a minotaur monk for a duel. That was a fun duel.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-18, 05:53 PM
Here's how you explain reach: Dhalsim!

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 06:50 PM
I agree that monks need the boost at lower levels, being undoubtedly weak before their versatility starts kicking into gear, but ten foot threatened area is a bit much. Imagine what that can do for parties that know how to use teamwork. The fighter gets in close with a full attack and the monk from ten feet away with a flurry of blows. The fighter would take too long to take out for the opponent to survive and to hit the monk would mean taking an AoO from the fighter. Not only that, bur I'm a bit worried about justification: how does a monk attack something ten feet away with limbs that are four feet long at most?

That is a good ability and creative, I'll admit, but large damage is out of the question, IMO. 4d8 damage>>>2d10 damage. Learned that lesson when I made a minotaur monk for a duel. That was a fun duel.

You forgot the AoO he provokes from the monk as well.

As for how the monk attacks opponents that are ten feet away with limbs =/> 4 feet long, this is the answer: he's just that awesome. How does the Lunging Strike feat work?

mikeejimbo
2007-01-18, 06:58 PM
Doesn't it have something to do with your ki? Or is it chi?

Either way, I thought it was a popular legend, that a very practiced monk can strike someone from a distance. Whether or not it's unbalanced, something resembling it needs to be in play. Perhaps if you can only make one attack at a distance?

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-18, 07:05 PM
That's the Lunging Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lunging_Strike) feat, which, you will notice, is part of the style progression and thus effectively a prerequisite for the special ability.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-18, 07:22 PM
Ah, that it is, although the they took out the flavor and put in more crunchy bits.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-21, 01:29 AM
Bumpity bump

Darkshade
2007-01-21, 03:03 AM
you could simply make the special ability for the first one either A) you can perform a lunging striek as a standard action or B) when performing a lunging strike you may attack twice at your highest bonus

also the way of the poison dart frog should not let you catch a number equal to your monk level that is way too many considering infinite deflection is an epic feat, and I have played an epic rogue with infinite deflection and NEVER used it more then 6 times in any one round, in DnD more then 5 times a round is infinite, heck for magic items more then 5 times a day is more expensive then unlimited usage! I suggest letting them do it 3 times, or maybe 1/3 monk level, or even possibly doing it 1 + wisdom modifier

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-21, 03:05 AM
1 + Wis sounds good. Thanks.

I don't like your suggestions for the Way of the Giant so much, simply because it seems so much simpler to say "you have reach".

Darkshade
2007-01-21, 03:12 AM
ahh but if the monk is allowed to really have that reach then he can start doing things like taking monstrous feats that require reach, Large and in Charge, or imagine a Whirlwind Attack with 10' or even the elusive Great Throw, I have played large monks before who payed levels for their reach and sacrificed a lot to have it and it is worth it because the awesomeness of a monk with reach is scary! there has got to be some better way of improving lunging strike without making it full on reach

btw i do for the most part like these styles and would even let monks in my campaign use them if i could make the way of the giant a little more toned down...

hey what about letting the monk count as large size for purposes of trip, bullrun, overrun, and grapple?

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-25, 09:55 PM
That seems much better, and would make man-to-man fighting so much more worthwhile, as well as allowing the monk to be the disabler in the party while the fighter goes in picking off his prone opponents.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-25, 10:09 PM
I'm pretty sure that the feats Darkshade mentioned require actual Large size rather than reach, but keep in mind that even if they do, you only get reach when fighting unarmed. You might not ever fight with a weapon, but a fighter who never uses anything but a glaive can't qualify for those feats either, so...