[3.5]4 free ranks at 1st level: Does it help Mundanes much?

[johnbragg]

"Momma/Daddy always said...."

Every character at 1st level must specify their parents' occupation(s). Then choose 4 ranks in skills relevant to that occupation, even if they're normally cross-class.

Rules: No more than 2 ranks in any one skill, and the limit of 4 ranks at 1st level still applies.

So Farmboy Clem, a 1st level fighter, could start with 1 rank each in Ride, Handle Animal, Knowledge-Local and Knowledge-Nature.

Meanwhile, Berenger Valencia, 1st level fighter and 5th son of a minor baron, could start with 1 rank each in Knowledge-Nobility, Knowledge-History, Ride and Speak Language.

And Salador Springdagger, 1st level fighter and son of a fisherman, could have 1 rank each in Use Rope, Swim, Profession(Fishing) and Knowledge-Nature (Ocean terrain)

Little orphan Anirul, 1st-level Rogue, learned nothing from her parents, but has picked up 2 ranks in Sense Motive, 1 in Hide and 1 in Sleight-of-Hand.

I like the idea just for fluff.

Does it require too much DM discretion to ban ridiculous backgrounds? ("My daddy was an elven bard who seduced momma and split before she woke up the next morning. +2 to Diplomancy and Move Silently, please!")

Do a couple of ranks do anything, really, to help Tier 4-5 mundanes be useful in more situations?

[Amnoriath]

"Momma/Daddy always said...."

Every character at 1st level must specify their parents' occupation(s). Then choose 4 ranks in skills relevant to that occupation, even if they're normally cross-class.

Rules: No more than 2 ranks in any one skill, and the limit of 4 ranks at 1st level still applies.

So Farmboy Clem, a 1st level fighter, could start with 1 rank each in Ride, Handle Animal, Knowledge-Local and Knowledge-Nature.

Meanwhile, Berenger Valencia, 1st level fighter and 5th son of a minor baron, could start with 1 rank each in Knowledge-Nobility, Knowledge-History, Ride and Speak Language.

And Salador Springdagger, 1st level fighter and son of a fisherman, could have 1 rank each in Use Rope, Swim, Profession(Fishing) and Knowledge-Nature (Ocean terrain)

Little orphan Anirul, 1st-level Rogue, learned nothing from her parents, but has picked up 2 ranks in Sense Motive, 1 in Hide and 1 in Sleight-of-Hand.

I like the idea just for fluff.

Does it require too much DM discretion to ban ridiculous backgrounds? ("My daddy was an elven bard who seduced momma and split before she woke up the next morning. +2 to Diplomancy and Move Silently, please!")

Do a couple of ranks do anything, really, to help Tier 4-5 mundanes be useful in more situations?

It would help for the first few levels but after that it isn't that noticeable. I think an easy solution would be to say every one can chose one cross-class skill, ie knowledge(nobility) is one and they can assign whatever background to it. You can allow tier 3's or lower to choose two.
If you want a more thorough equalization without redoing almost every class GURPS offers a system to revamp leveling. While not well designed for higher power at all at base GURPS uses points to fully customize a character. Everyone uses the same base points. Flaws had a much better role play aspect while giving points to the player to spend as seen fit. Advantages of course were the opposite. This would also include races if they had significantly more abilities than another would in which they would be taxed for taking a higher power race. This could also include classes.

[johnbragg]

It would help for the first few levels but after that it isn't that noticeable. I think an easy solution would be to say every one can chose one cross-class skill, ie knowledge(nobility) is one and they can assign whatever background to it. You can allow tier 3's or lower to choose two.

Allowing one cross-class skill to be in class could be a good option. But that makes the project a touch more dangerous. (Mostly stepping on the Rogue's turf. One or two ranks in Use Magic Device or Sleight of Hand isn't a big deal. But letting a mid- to high- level character max out the skill is different).

I was half-thinking of worrying about doing anything to boost the Tier 1-2s, but yeah, at the first few levels, the wizard-who's-spent-his-spell having a rank in a few non-wizardy skills would be a good thing. (OOTS: V having 2 ranks each in Knowledge: Nature and Survival or Use Rope from those camping trips, or just Knowledge-Geography. Roy having 2 ranks each in Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana, or one each in those two, Spot (seen a LOT of illusions at home) and Use Magic Device.)

Some characters will "go into the family business", and spend their 1st level ranks on in-class skills, but I don't think that's a huge problem. (OOTS: Julia spends 1 each on Spellcraft, K-Arcana, Spot and Concentration, and gets to spend 3 ranks on Bluff.)


If you want a more thorough equalization without redoing almost every class GURPS offers a system to revamp leveling.

I'm not looking for a full-scale conversion. Thanks for the idea, though.

Giving extra skill ranks probably doesn't help the mundanes catch up to the casters, but it helps everyone a little bit and adds flavor and fluff. It helps the skill-starved Fighters and Paladins most in the area they're weakest, which is definitely a good thing.

The effect probably washes out if you start at high levels, unless you make a cross-class skill in-class.

[bobthe6th]

1 rank is at best letting you use a skill as trained.
Overall... not really useful. I would honestly say the only thing that makes it viable is handing out perma-class skills, with some limitations. Pick a skill, it is now a class skill and you gain 4 ranks in it. No UMD, everything else is on the table.

[Amnoriath]

Allowing one cross-class skill to be in class could be a good option. But that makes the project a touch more dangerous. (Mostly stepping on the Rogue's turf. One or two ranks in Use Magic Device or Sleight of Hand isn't a big deal. But letting a mid- to high- level character max out the skill is different).

I was half-thinking of worrying about doing anything to boost the Tier 1-2s, but yeah, at the first few levels, the wizard-who's-spent-his-spell having a rank in a few non-wizardy skills would be a good thing. (OOTS: V having 2 ranks each in Knowledge: Nature and Survival or Use Rope from those camping trips, or just Knowledge-Geography. Roy having 2 ranks each in Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana, or one each in those two, Spot (seen a LOT of illusions at home) and Use Magic Device.)

Some characters will "go into the family business", and spend their 1st level ranks on in-class skills, but I don't think that's a huge problem. (OOTS: Julia spends 1 each on Spellcraft, K-Arcana, Spot and Concentration, and gets to spend 3 ranks on Bluff.)



If and only if they have the skills points. Otherwise you are just giving them something else to spend on. Wizards do ultimately have quite a few skill points but they also must max 2 plus have a lot of Knowledge/Craft skills and UMD is actually probably a dump skill in the mid to long run.

[johnbragg]

If and only if they have the skills points. Otherwise you are just giving them something else to spend on.

I don't know, I could see this really shafting the Rogue, if the Bard has Open Locks and the Ranger has Disable Device and the Cleric has Sleight of Hand. That's an extreme case, though, and I can't think of what backgrounds would conveniently give those skills while the character grows up to be their class. (Cleric raised by a circus family something something Pelor? The ranger was raised by steampunk gnomes?)

[Kornaki]

The bard has open locks because bard. I'm pretty sure that one word justifies any choice of skill actually.

The ranger has disable device because he has experience destroying the unnatural abominations the gnomes dump in his forest when they're done tinkering with them. The cleric has sleight of hand because he grew up on the streets and turned to Pelor after the gang he ran with got too rough and he realized he was becoming a monster.

But these are irrelevant, because you said the skill choices are due to the parents' occupations, not the character's. So the ranger has disable device because his dad was a rogue and taught him some tricks. You don't need some deep backstory, you just need to have a parent who's a rogue. The cleric has sleight of hand because his dad was a rogue and taught him some tricks.

The most important point to keep in mind is that unless there is a rule saying "you can't take rogue skills", then a DM is unlikely to veto a skill choice that the player requests, even if they don't really have a great reason for why that's their skill.

[johnbragg]

The most important point to keep in mind is that unless there is a rule saying "you can't take rogue skills", then a DM is unlikely to veto a skill choice that the player requests, even if they don't really have a great reason for why that's their skill.

All of your suggestions would work. I'd allow any of them, but they're reinforcing my idea that this should be a small tweak, first-level bonus only, not something that stays an in-class skill.

If the idea is, get players to think a bit about background and they get a few skill points they normally wouldn't get.

The title question, I think the thing to do there is just give Fighters and Paladins more Skill Points per level. I like the "everybody gets 4 ranks based on background" idea, and yes, it doesn't have to be parents--I had the orphan in the original post picking up street skills. It helps at first level, where every little bit helps, and is close-to-meaningless a few levels later.

[Morph Bark]

I'm thinking of giving each PC some mechanical benefits based on their background. For instance, Craft and Profession would become background-tied skills, being erased as normal skills and simply becoming Int and Wis checks with a bonus equal to character level if they're part of the character's backstory.

[Berenger]

I'll quote myself for an alternate model of this idea:


D20 Modern and its supplements have "Starting Occupations". Those from "Past" and "Urban Arcana" should fit best for fantasy settings, but most will do with some minor tweaking.

You pick an occupation at character creation, for example "Law Enforcement", "Doctor" or "White Collar". You get 1-3 new class skills from a thematically appropriate list (or +1 to an existing class skill from said list), and / or one bonus feat from a thematically appropriate list, and / or a reputation bonus, and / or a wealth bonus.There are prerequisites for some occupations, but they are not very harsh (e.g. the "Doctor" must be 25+ years of age, due to necessary studies).

For example: My fighter is no ordinary fighter, he is a combat medic! So I pick the best fitting starting occupation, say, "Emergency Services". I choose "Treat Injury" and "Knowledge: Earth and Life Sciences" as his additional class skills. On top, this nets him a +2 to his Wealth Modifier (he gets better pay than some rank and file trooper, after all). My other fighter is no ordinary fighter either, he is a knight. So he is an "Aristocrat", netting him even more starting money (shiny armor!), +1 on Ride, +1 Reputation and the title "Sir"...


Most of the starting occupations are available here (http://www.d20resources.com/) under Open Game License (named "occupation", not "starting occupation" in the Arcana d20 SRD entry, but is the same thing).

[Alabenson]

All of your suggestions would work. I'd allow any of them, but they're reinforcing my idea that this should be a small tweak, first-level bonus only, not something that stays an in-class skill.

If the idea is, get players to think a bit about background and they get a few skill points they normally wouldn't get.

The title question, I think the thing to do there is just give Fighters and Paladins more Skill Points per level. I like the "everybody gets 4 ranks based on background" idea, and yes, it doesn't have to be parents--I had the orphan in the original post picking up street skills. It helps at first level, where every little bit helps, and is close-to-meaningless a few levels later.

I think one of the things you need to do is decide on what you hope to accomplish by doing this; is this supposed to be a minor roleplay/background bonus, or is this something that is supposed to actually help the lower-Tier classes?
If you're going for the former, then giving out a few extra skill points is perfectly fine; it adds a touch of flavor without meaningfully impacting the player's abilities.
If you're going for the latter on the other hand, then adding a single extra class skill or a few extra skill points per level would be the minimum required.

[johnbragg]

I think one of the things you need to do is decide on what you hope to accomplish by doing this; is this supposed to be a minor roleplay/background bonus, or is this something that is supposed to actually help the lower-Tier classes?

I think it works better as a universal minor roleplay/background bonus.


If you're going for the latter on the other hand, then adding a single extra class skill or a few extra skill points per level would be the minimum required.

Yes. I think that boosting the Fighter (and Paladin, if he doesn't get consumed by the fixed warrior-priest) up to 4 Skill Points per level is a Good Thing.

Possibly also moving him in the Dungeoncrasher direction, by making Spot/Search/Listen in-class skills. Or maybe just letting the Fighter choose two cross-class skills to become in-class skills.

Thanks Berenger, but I think I'm comfortable with having the players choose the PC's background, and then pick skills that make sense. Obviously you'll have min-maxing to get the "best" skills, but if the background justifies the skills, and doesn't mean excessive starting gold or powerful NPC patrons. I don't think 2 ranks in any skill is going to be a huge advantage.

[AttilaTheGeek]

It's not very useful for helping Mundanes, but that's not its goal. It is good for helping a character sheet reflect its background, which is a noble goal.

[Bullet06320]

in my campaigns, its a house rule, all characters get knowledge local in their hometown with 4 ranks for free, and its an in class skill for them, for that town only, just makes sense, u know your local area where u grew up