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Crasical
2013-10-15, 05:52 PM
So while this is specifically about the Pathfinder Alchemist, and even more specifically the Vivisectionist Alchemist, it's more of a general roleplaying question so I'm putting it here.

Vivisectionist Alchemists are basically Dr. Moreau. Instead of being mad bomber/chemists, they get biologist/anatomist abilities instead. The ones that concern me are the 'Torturous Transformations', which basically boil down to:

Turn an animal into a manimal
Turn an animal into an intelligent animal
Turn a person into an (intelligent) animal


I'd rather not just ignore these abilities, but I'm having a hard time spinning them in a way that doesn't suggest a creepy, evil, 'For Science!' motivated alchemist. For now, I'm shooting for 'not evil', but 'not creepy' would be nice too. Any suggestions?

Rhynn
2013-10-15, 05:59 PM
Vivisection is the cutting, dissection, or surgery of living things: torture, essentially. You may get away with doing it to animals, but as soon as you do it to intelligent things, D&D morality says you're Evil, pretty much.

Refluff yourself as a "transformationist," using elixirs to create the changes without torture. It's still a bit morally ambiguous, but answers to questions like "is it your right to create intelligent life?" are a bit beyond D&D's alignment system, so you should be fine. Probably puts you solidly in Neutral.

Scow2
2013-10-15, 06:00 PM
Why are they considered "Torturous" transformations?

My suggestion would be to use anesthetic.

JoshuaZ
2013-10-15, 06:11 PM
All of these could happen completely with consenting individuals.

RochtheCrusher
2013-10-15, 06:21 PM
Turning an animal into an intelligent one is basically just like the Druid spell "Awaken," yes? Nothing intrinsically evil about that.

Giving animals opposable thumbs they weren't born with gets... difficult to justify. Perhaps if you go with more of a "animal in humanoid power armor" theme?

A lot of the effort required to make turning humans into animals not horribly Evil is going to involve your source of humans. Transplanting the brain of a dead child (who can't pay the level to be revived) into, say, a wolf cub's body to give him a chance at life isn't Evil... assuming a human corpse wouldn't work. Changing willing folks isn't evil either, and I suppose you could come up with a legal system in which turning felons into animals is... merely very weird. Perhaps you work for Captain Planet, and only change oil tycoons, or something.

In the end, it's a lot like killing. To do this and be good, you need a very good reason, which applies to this case and not some nebulous "greater good."

So you won't be doing it much. :-P

Crasical
2013-10-15, 06:25 PM
All of these could happen completely with consenting individuals.


Refluff yourself as a "transformationist," using elixirs to create the changes without torture. It's still a bit morally ambiguous, but answers to questions like "is it your right to create intelligent life?" are a bit beyond D&D's alignment system, so you should be fine. Probably puts you solidly in Neutral.

These are good starts. Removing the surgical element alone makes me start thinking about spinning this as a sort of Lycanthropy Researcher who's studying their changes from humanoid to animal to animal hybrid.... but it doesn't have a solid 'Why' for it yet. Yes, you -can- transform a man into a dog and then that into a dogman, but why would you?

Scow2
2013-10-15, 06:32 PM
These are good starts. Removing the surgical element alone makes me start thinking about spinning this as a sort of Lycanthropy Researcher who's studying their changes from humanoid to animal to animal hybrid.... but it doesn't have a solid 'Why' for it yet. Yes, you -can- transform a man into a dog and then that into a dogman, but why would you?Because animal-people are awesomer than normal people and normal animals. He's a transhuman. Why should the gift of intelligence and free will be denied to animals? Give them the glory of tool-use! With animals, there are few moral quandries as long as the process doesn't inflict pain - they don't really care what happens to them, even if druids and other "Appeal To Nature" preachers get pissy. And for willing people? Why deny them the opportunity to shed clumsy, weak human bodies when you can give them superior animalistic forms?

Maybe getting unintelligent animals to think like people is the first step to colonizing-by-proxy a person-free world populated only by unintelligent natives!

Grim Portent
2013-10-15, 06:35 PM
but why would you?

FOR SCIENCE!!!

Now that I've got that out of my system I feel compelled to ask why you want to try and flavour something like this as good? It seems that it might be better to look for a class that can do similar stuff more ethically.

Failing that the best way to make this less shady is to only practice on sentient subjects that can and have given their consent. Maybe people on the brink of death or the elderly, perhaps those rendered comatose somehow. Animals can't consent so they should be avoided as test subjects. Maybe try to sort out a deal with law enforcement that lets you test on volunteers from among condemned criminals who get a reduced sentence in exchange for being your guinea pig.

Crasical
2013-10-15, 06:41 PM
FOR SCIENCE!!!

But that's specifically what I'm trying to avoid! :smalltongue:


Now that I've got that out of my system I feel compelled to ask why you want to try and flavour something like this as good? It seems that it might be better to look for a class that can do similar stuff more ethically.

To be brutally honest? Vivisectionist Alchemists get sneak attack while also having pseudo-spellcasting to enhance their versatility. I'm taking the class mostly for mechanical reasons.

Grim Portent
2013-10-15, 06:50 PM
Is evil completely off the table or is it only the 'FOR SCIENCE' mentality you want to avoid?

Scow2
2013-10-15, 06:55 PM
Uplifting animals gives you willing and devoted (Usually) servants eager to serve whatever plan their master has for them, for giving them the chance to experience life in a manner they'd otherwise be ignorant of: You'd be a god to them. Don't abuse that power, but you get more leeway through that than standard recruitment policies.

Crasical
2013-10-15, 06:55 PM
Is evil completely off the table or is it only the 'FOR SCIENCE' mentality you want to avoid?

I'd reeeeaaally like to avoid Evil but if you've got a compelling evil motivation I would like to hear it.

Scow2
2013-10-15, 07:06 PM
I say to focus on understanding and transcending human limitations. A shame mechanically the class is pretty much restricted to non-permanent changes from one known to another, instead of the logical extension of adding and enhancing natural abilities.

It's not animal abuse if the animals don't suffer. Being non-creepy is harder than non-evil, though.

Deffers
2013-10-15, 07:09 PM
I can think of a good origin!

There's this rich kid, alright? Sure, he's a noble's child, but he's no worse than Neutral. Anyways, he had this dog since birth, alright? Father's hunting dog-- was getting along in years, but took to the kid when he was born like... like a thing that takes well to another thing. Now the kid's, like, six or seven, and the dog's old as hell. One of daddy's hunting dogs die, and he's suddenly acutely aware of his best friend's mortality, because kids are like that. So now he's freaking out.

But you, a bright-eyed and perhaps literally bushy-tailed alchemist with interesting theories, come up with a solution. The kid's inconsolable and the father is like "whatever" at this point, just wants to see his son happy. So you transform the dog into a dog-person, granting it human-level intelligence. Suddenly, the kid's old dog became a sort of Jeeves-esque figure who had a significantly extended lifetime, giving this kid decades more time with his beloved caretaker.

Being the sort of mind that is attracted to alchemy, but also a nice guy who enjoys money in his coin purse, you decide to try and refine and perfect your technique so that you can bring that same joy to a wider market. That's why you're adventuring-- to perfect your skills as a Radical Veterinary Technician. You said you didn't want a mad scientist, but you said nothing about someone who's perfectly rational as a scientist and a mad businessman instead! :smallamused:

Grim Portent
2013-10-15, 07:11 PM
I'd reeeeaaally like to avoid Evil but if you've got a compelling evil motivation I would like to hear it.

Creepy rather than compelling tbh but I'm sure I could come up with a more justified evil one before long.

Current idea: (WARNING: Somewhat creepy. Really evil.)
Ever since you were a child you've always liked to play with toys. It started with teddy bears and wooden soldiers. You talked to them, hugged them, took the very best care of them, and you also took them apart to see what kind of combinations you could make from them. A teddy with a soldiers arm stitched on. A stolen girls doll with a bears face. The possibilities to make more toys were endless.

But as you grew up it became time to leave childish toys behind, and so you did. You were skilled at stitching, you knew your way around needles and thread, and so you were an obvious choice for the local doctor's apprentice. You watched eagerly as he taught you to tend to the injuries of animals and people alike and new possibilities entered your brain. Flesh was soft and pliant like the cloth of a teddy bear after all, and are they really so different? What about animals... they can't complain after all. Can they?

So you began to experiment... to practice. You set up a workshop. A little toy factory of your very own, and there you made playthings. Not childish little trifles likes teddies and wooden soldiers, but things shaped from the fresh clay of living flesh. Dogs and cats and rats and bats and birds, all were just a fresh canvas to create new treasures from. New toys to play with and discard as you saw fit.

Eventually you tired of your latest playthings... grew weary of their attempts to escape from your games. You had tried to make them loyal, obedient. But they just wouldn't understand. Then the idea struck you. Why not force them to understand. You worked and worked to make your idea a reality. Tried and tried, tested and tested, had to scrap failure after failure and dig so many unmarked graves for broken toys.

But it worked. They spoke, they learned, they became loyal, they did as instructed. Your toys lived like never before. But the challenge of making them as they were was growing easy, simple. A task that seemed as if a child could do it. And then one day a wandering tinker came to town... No one would miss him... It seemed so obvious what to do... A tinker-toy seemed like such a good idea...

EDIT: I may use what I have written as a villain in a campaign at some point.
EDIT2: The speed with which I wrote this disturbs me slightly...

Deffers
2013-10-15, 07:23 PM
Grim Portent, now I want to have a cage match between your guy and my guy. It's like Moriarty and Sherlock but with horrible mixes of human and animal instead of with deductive skills.

Grim Portent
2013-10-15, 07:25 PM
Grim Portent, now I want to have a cage match between your guy and my guy. It's like Moriarty and Sherlock but with horrible mixes of human and animal instead of with deductive skills.

I'd read that book. If only because I've got the mental image of Watson as a humanoid Wombat. :smalltongue:

Scow2
2013-10-15, 07:30 PM
Grim Portent, now I want to have a cage match between your guy and my guy. It's like Moriarty and Sherlock but with horrible awesome and glorious mixes of human and animal instead of with deductive skills.Fixed that for you.

Arbane
2013-10-15, 07:37 PM
FOR SCIENCE!!!

Now that I've got that out of my system I feel compelled to ask why you want to try and flavour something like this as good? It seems that it might be better to look for a class that can do similar stuff more ethically.


"Science doesn't ask why, it asks WHY NOT?"- Cave Johnson

Lord Raziere
2013-10-15, 07:45 PM
"Why turn one thing into another? ha! you might as well ask why we seek to turn lead into gold, even though all it really does is be shiny and conduct electricity! Or figure out how to make lava lamps. We do what we must, because we can!

I mean, why should science be all about the practical boring things?"

mucat
2013-10-15, 09:18 PM
I'd rather not just ignore these abilities, but I'm having a hard time spinning them in a way that doesn't suggest a creepy, evil, 'For Science!' motivated alchemist. For now, I'm shooting for 'not evil', but 'not creepy' would be nice too. Any suggestions?
We might be coming at this from different perspectives, since to me, "For Science!" is not in itself a creepy or evil attitude...but you can give this guy a neutral or good motivation for his research. Creating intelligent beings that can survive some potential cataclysm that humans could not, or learning more about brain function by studying it in radically different contexts, or simply extending the gift of sapience to more creatures.

As others have suggested, take the "torturous" out of "torturous transformation." Have him use proper anaesthesia, make serious efforts to minimize the suffering of his test subjects, and when he DOES manage to give them intelligence, treat them as fellow sapient beings, not as property.

Many of his peers might still find his work abhorrent or unnatural, but they could still think of him as "a decent person doing a terrible thing."

I am currently playing an alchemist who presents a similar "How to not be evil" challenge for a different reason. He's that classic archetype, the grief-maddened scientist obsessed with bringing a dead loved one back to life. His situation really IS creepy and unsettling -- his wife's disembodied brain is on alchemical life support in his lab -- but I've been doing my best to portray them both in a way that merits the reaction "What a horrible situation!" rather than "What a horrible person!"

Berenger
2013-10-16, 06:10 AM
I bet some rogues or spies would give their right hands to be transformed into an animal. Or their right paw, wing, set of organic scythes, you get the picture. Provided you can change them back after the great scam / espionage mission.

Rhynn
2013-10-16, 06:18 AM
"Why turn one thing into another? ha! you might as well ask why we seek to turn lead into gold, even though all it really does is be shiny and conduct electricity! Or figure out how to make lava lamps. We do what we must, because we can!

I mean, why should science be all about the practical boring things?"

Actually, and this can be made relevant to the character, the transformations of external substances (from state to state, or theoretically lead to gold) in alchemy are supposed to reflect or bring about internal changes (metaphysical, spiritual) in the alchemist. Alchemy has a strong spiritual element.

Lord Raziere
2013-10-16, 06:27 AM
Actually, and this can be made relevant to the character, the transformations of external substances (from state to state, or theoretically lead to gold) in alchemy are supposed to reflect or bring about internal changes (metaphysical, spiritual) in the alchemist. Alchemy has a strong spiritual element.

"AND!? Can't I get spiritual enlightenment from becoming more catlike!? man to cat to catman is just like alchemy. but with animals. so just let me seek my spiritual enlightenment through animalistic transformation please. I mean druids do it too right? I just do it with potions..."

Rhynn
2013-10-16, 06:55 AM
Well, that was my point. It's not about turning lead into gold, it's about transformations. Man to animal or animal to man is a transformation.

Lord Raziere
2013-10-16, 08:21 AM
Yes but you still cannot explain why anyone made the lava lamp :smalltongue:

Scow2
2013-10-16, 04:04 PM
Yes but you still cannot explain why anyone made the lava lamp :smalltongue:Dude... they're a product of The Sixties (And Seventies), and a broke-ass Drug-addled Pornographer (Yes, really!) needed some money fast. He saw an egg timer that used wax in a bottle on a heater (When the wax melted enough to rise, the egg was done), thought it looked Groovy, and decided to make it one rocket-shaped, colored the wax, and used a lightbulb to heat it. And, this being during the 60s and 70s, everyone else thought they were psychedelic and groovy too, and wanted to buy them for themselves, turning the dude rich.

That's the abridged version, at least.

Crasical
2013-10-16, 08:52 PM
Dude... they're a product of The Sixties (And Seventies), and a broke-ass Drug-addled Pornographer (Yes, really!) needed some money fast. He saw an egg timer that used wax in a bottle on a heater (When the wax melted enough to rise, the egg was done), thought it looked Groovy, and decided to make it one rocket-shaped, colored the wax, and used a lightbulb to heat it. And, this being during the 60s and 70s, everyone else thought they were psychedelic and groovy too, and wanted to buy them for themselves, turning the dude rich.

And just like that, the topic of the thread transmuted too... :smalltongue:

Weirdlet
2013-10-16, 10:16 PM
Perhaps your character feels it's the only way s/he'll ever have children, or lives isolated and away from others and it's been sort of the end-result of said isolation- not evil, just not necessarily regarded as healthy by others. The knowledge of how to make someone human into an animal is just a by-product of knowing how to raise up animals into your students, equals and heirs.

Kane0
2013-10-16, 10:39 PM
I'm sure the elderly, crippled and impaired would all be very interested in getting some new bodies, even if there is a tail included.

Scow2
2013-10-17, 07:03 AM
I'm sure the elderly, crippled and impaired would all be very interested in getting some new bodies, even if there is a tail included.Some people would want new bodies just because of the tail (And fur coat) that comes with it!

Grim Portent
2013-10-17, 08:28 AM
How about this?

Aspiring Nature Lover (I appear to have a hard time at removing the creepy element)
You've always loved nature, the smell of grass, the soft chorus of birdsong at dawn, the babbling of streams. You aspired to become a druid or ranger, but meditation never seemed to work and bowstrings snapped in your hands.

Not one to be deterred you decided to try and learn about the wilderness, the animals and the plants. Who knows, maybe you just needed to know a bit more to be able to get properly attuned to nature. You learned how to keep animals, grow herbs for medicines, learned the properties of alchemical reagents, all to try and understand the natural world you so dearly cared for.

It didn't work, now meditation simply brought your mind to think of experiments and the physical properties of the natural world, rather than it's spirit. In a fit of exasperation you decided that if you couldn't become attuned to nature the normal way, you would find another. But the efforts needed, the risks, the dangers... they frightened you, you needed to know what you were getting into. So you turned your knowledge to the pursuit of transformation. Surely everyone would be much happier as an animal. At one with the natural world and in tune with the birdsong and babbling brooks. And once you had learned a safe way... you would join them, and have all that you ever wanted.

Scow2
2013-10-17, 09:51 AM
How about the "Biologican Innovator" instead? Keep "Heal" ranks maxed out.

You're a doctor and scientist. Yes, clerics and other magically-gifted people can heal people in impossible matters, but everyone remains ignorant of the body. How can you expect to fix something, much less improve it, if you refuse to learn how they even work!? Magical healing is a rare and limited thing. And don't give the line about "People are already made perfect by their Gods" horsecrap - Gods make at least minor mistakes all the time, and it's up to mortals to bugfix the errors.

There's also a moral impetus to actually find the line where Animal ends Person begins... if it exists at all. By examining the corpses of animals and man, you have found remarkable similarities even between species as wildly diverse as Orcs and tigers - and you suspect they're fundamentally compatible. Unfortunately, you can only learn so much about body mechanics and anatomy from a cadaver, and thus need to study live subjects, though you try to conduct your experiments as ethically as possible, using animal test subjects on the most dangerous, getting consent from sapient subjects, and you develop and use anesthetics whenever possible. There are many who would wish to see the biological barriers between the races and species bridged and broken, particularly those who have suffered because of them, and your research will help with that.

You've taken up Adventuring as a way to fund your research, as well as find new specimens. Your unmatched knowledge of science, surgery, and anatomy means you're more than just a scholar - The knowledge you have gained in your quest for biological innovation also allows you to restore and repair damaged anatomy suffered during an adventure, and also allows you to strike the enemies in their most vulnerable points, using their own bodies against them to incapacitate them swiftly.

Bam. Ethical (At least in a genuinely the "For the greater good" sense) Vivisectionist. A shame the mechanics don't fully support it, though the fluff does.

Dargaron
2013-10-17, 01:12 PM
If you want to play a character with a more religious bent, you could play your alchemist as someone who legitimately believes in a Hindu-style reincarnation scheme. Think about it: being reborn as a human is a tremendous privilege. There's a saying by the Buddha that it is more likely for a blind turtle to surface in a certain spot in the ocean than for a soul to be reincarnated as a human. The advantage being that humans have so much more of a chance to acquire good karma in their lifetime, in order to progress to higher forms.

Let's say that this guy believes that the world functions by such a system, and that he was visited by (insert exotic god here) to give a great boon to the world: he was given the secret to uplift souls to higher levels in this world, without having to be reborn. Animals wouldn't have to await a thousand rebirths just to have a chance at humanity again. Humans who are unworthy of the privilege could be downgraded into a safer form. In essence, he has been chosen to give a second chance to non-sapient creatures to reach enlightenment.

If you want to play the redemption angle, you could say that he used to be evil, but the "visitor in the night" showed him true wisdom, and promised that, if he followed the right path, he would gain not only respect, but even greater power.

PS: Yes, I know I am freely mixing Buddhism and Hinduism here, but their traditions are intertwined. Apologies if this violates the "No real-world religion" policy, but I don't know of any fictional equivalents to use instead. If there's a better way to explain this in religiously-neutral language, I'd be happy to edit my post.

Kane0
2013-10-17, 03:58 PM
Some people would want new bodies just because of the tail (And fur coat) that comes with it!

I wasn't going to go and say that, it seems like an internet taboo.
But since that imaginary line has been crossed, i'd put my hand up for a new tailed body.
In fact, why not just make your alchemist a furry? Like a legit one, not a cheap for-laughs brony.

Analytica
2013-10-17, 04:12 PM
One possible option... think animal rights activist. Chaotic Good.

The philosophy would be: if something can feel pain or pleasure, but isn't intelligent, it cannot be a free or rational agent of its own best interests in competition with fully intelligent such agents. Using anything that feels, as food, clothing or as a work force, is slavery and ultimately evil. Therefore:

- Replace all use of animal-derived food, materials or labour with alchemical produce, plant-derived alchemical products, inorganic products, and labour by non-feeling constructs.
- Make all non-intelligent but feeling creatures able to see to their own happiness and freedom by making them intelligent and having opposable thumbs.

Practice these techniques, in the hope of ultimately perfecting them, then lead all sentient creatures to perfect intelligence and ethically sound self-sufficiency in a world optimized through alchemy.

Still creepy? :smallbiggrin:

Crasical
2013-10-17, 04:35 PM
I wasn't going to go and say that, it seems like an internet taboo.
But since that imaginary line has been crossed, i'd put my hand up for a new tailed body.
In fact, why not just make your alchemist a furry? Like a legit one, not a cheap for-laughs brony.

As it stands I'm thinking (A pair of) Ratfolk, because racial interest in Alchemy and because Swarming+Sneak Attack. So a furry critter being a furry would be weird.

As it stands, I'm currently thinking the rough timeline goes something like
>'Standard' Ratfolk alchemists
>Tome of lore/Encounter with a living Were-X
>Interest in lycanthropic shapeshifting begins
>Go consult with experienced Plague Bringer Ratfolk alchemists
>Get knowledge base, begin their own experiments
>Minor breakthroughs like Vivisectionist transformations, Feral Mutagen, Ect.
>??????
>Profit?

I guess the eventual goal might be mutating a strain of lycanthropy that doesn't have the drawbacks of the normal 'afflicted' lycanthropy strain (IE the will-save needed to achieve 'clarity', the easy communicability of the disease, the concentration checks needed to change form). For precisely what purpose I don't know.

Also do furries look down on bronies now? Is that how it works? I don't know the internet heirarchy anymore. :smallfrown:

Kane0
2013-10-17, 05:29 PM
For precisely what purpose I don't know.

Also do furries look down on bronies now? Is that how it works? I don't know the internet heirarchy anymore. :smallfrown:

Well, think of it this way. People often use specific animals when epitomizing traits, abilites, etc. Heavy use in metaphors too.
For example 'Cat-like reflexes', 'soaring like an eagle', etc.
A more direct example would be Cats Grace, Owls Wisdom, etc.
It would be quite believable for people to want to enhance themselves towards a certain goal, like the loyalty of a dog or the speed of a leopard. Your alchemist might be one of those people that want to be more like one or more specific animals, and/or grants that wish to others.

Also, I believe furries and bronies are two distinct groups, and get upset when you roll them together. Kind of like the Irish and Scottish or Canadians and Americans.

SuperPanda
2013-10-20, 11:48 PM
I thought uplift when I first saw this thread too...

Taking "undesirable" species like ... well like Rats for one ... and granting them human like intelligence and features to make them capable of negotiating peace - and equality with the human-like races could be a quite noble goal.

On the neutral / bordering on evil side of things you could be an Eco-crusader who tracks down people that hunt/abuse/torment a type of animal and subject them to (temporary / reversable) transformations to teach them empathy. Depending on how its done this could be chaotic good trickster stuff (knock them out with anesthetic - transform them but put them in a completely safe environment with actual animals to befriend -knock them out again and transform them back... they think it was all a bad dream). Or it could be straight up evil (transform them into animals and set their fellow hunters on them while laughing manically).

An environmentalist trying to give intelligence and tool-use to an undesired / endangered species so that it could stand up for itself would be a in interesting character. Next game-world I make that might even be the origin for a race like Ratfolk.

SassyQuatch
2013-10-21, 12:06 AM
He thinks like an animist shaman. The animals have powerful spirits and he is reworking flesh to release the animal spirit fully into the world so they may teach the common races greater wisdom.

Ravian
2013-10-21, 04:36 PM
Can't blame you for having a tough time figuring out a non-evil origin, after all first thing I thought of when I heard the description was Shou Tucker from Fullmetal Alchemist, who easily wins the prize for most hated person in media for me.

Poor Nina...
Though at least these alchemists can't transform humans mentally. (At least I hope so.)

Lycanthrope researcher sounds like a nice idea though.

Crasical
2013-10-21, 09:14 PM
Though at least these alchemists can't transform humans mentally. (At least I hope so.).

They absolutely can.

Mewtarthio
2013-10-22, 11:12 AM
The Ex-Gerbil
Stop that. Stop looking at me like that. I know what you're thinking. You think I'm crazy, right? You think it's weird that I've got a bunch of rodents running around with opposable thumbs who speak like humans, right? You think this whole "blurring the lines between human and animal" thing is a little creepy, don't you? Well, I won't have you judging me. Blurring the lines between human and animal got me where I am today, after all.

And I mean that literally. Have you ever been a gerbil before? No? I thought not. Well, take it from me: Being a gerbil sucks. That's why I can't stand people who talk about the "simple life"; five minutes of being a gerbil, and you'll have all the simplicity you can stand. I'm really grateful to my master for uplifting me like he did. Sure, he basically thought of me as an amusing toy, never took me seriously, and ran all sorts of crazy experiments on me? But you know what? That meant that he never noticed that I was studying him, even as he studied me, constantly improving myself until I was finally able to finish what he started and grant myself human form. So, in a way, I'm grateful for all of that, too.

Granted, I still stabbed him to death in his sleep; that guy was a real sick bastard. But I stabbed him gratefully.

Now, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I don't look down on my roots. I might not ever want to be a gerbil again, but I'm glad I did it. It really grants you some perspective, you know? Of course you don't know; you've never been a gerbil. Not yet, anyway. Well, trust me; as horrible as it is, it's a real character-building exercise. I think everyone should try being a gerbil for a bit. Now hold still...

(Am I doing non-Evil right? I'm not sure I'm doing non-Evil right.)

123456789blaaa
2013-10-22, 11:18 AM
If you want to play a character with a more religious bent, you could play your alchemist as someone who legitimately believes in a Hindu-style reincarnation scheme. Think about it: being reborn as a human is a tremendous privilege. There's a saying by the Buddha that it is more likely for a blind turtle to surface in a certain spot in the ocean than for a soul to be reincarnated as a human. The advantage being that humans have so much more of a chance to acquire good karma in their lifetime, in order to progress to higher forms.

Let's say that this guy believes that the world functions by such a system, and that he was visited by (insert exotic god here) to give a great boon to the world: he was given the secret to uplift souls to higher levels in this world, without having to be reborn. Animals wouldn't have to await a thousand rebirths just to have a chance at humanity again. Humans who are unworthy of the privilege could be downgraded into a safer form. In essence, he has been chosen to give a second chance to non-sapient creatures to reach enlightenment.

If you want to play the redemption angle, you could say that he used to be evil, but the "visitor in the night" showed him true wisdom, and promised that, if he followed the right path, he would gain not only respect, but even greater power.

PS: Yes, I know I am freely mixing Buddhism and Hinduism here, but their traditions are intertwined. Apologies if this violates the "No real-world religion" policy, but I don't know of any fictional equivalents to use instead. If there's a better way to explain this in religiously-neutral language, I'd be happy to edit my post.

I think this idea is really really cool and original. I will probably have to find some way to use it whenever I can.

mucat
2013-10-22, 11:28 AM
The Ex-Gerbil
[ex-gerbil rant]

(Am I doing non-Evil right? I'm not sure I'm doing non-Evil right.)
Not quite sure...but you're doing Awesome spot-on. :smallsmile: