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Morph Bark
2013-10-22, 09:04 AM
WINTER IS COMING... AND SO IS MUHA 2

What is MUHA?
MUHA stands for Mixed Ultimate Homebrew Arts and is a competition conceived as a collaborative effort between Welknair and I by the end of 2012. The contest can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13606660), and Temotei, the organiser of the Base Class Challenge, was the winner with his Chronoshifter. Welknair and I started talk of doing a second MUHA competition right after the first was completed, but due to his absence this was never realized. I would, however, love to do it again, and Temotei has told me that he might be available as a judge if it were to happen.

Non-Usual Homebrew? What?
Non-Usual Homebrew (let's affectionately call it NUbrew <3 /jk) is basically all Homebrew for DnD 3.5 that isn't a base class, PrC, race, monster, or part of an existing subsystem (spells, powers, disciplines, vestiges, etc). On one hand this includes completely new systems, such as Kellus' Xenoalchemy and Gramarie, Realms of Chaos' Xenotheurgy and Don Quixote's Spellshaping. On the other hand is things that do exist in official DnD, but doesn't get brewn a lot and also doesn't get much of a spotlight in official material, such as Welknair's Bloodlines (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208703). On the third hand, there's things that lie completely outside of official material and new subsystems, things that have no ties to base classes or PrCs at all and which might only have a referential connection to other things, either filling in the gaps like Welknair's Deity Rising (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10711859#post10711859) or changing up something existing for something better like Lord Gareth's Alignment Color Wheel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174163). Those last two categories are especially intruiging due to expanding the breadth of Homebrewing, while the first category is great because it expands the depth.

Most of you most likely know me (if you do) by my work on the Homebrew Tier Compendium and its sub-projects. I'm thinking I would like to focus the next MUHA on NUbrew (or at least the last two categories, as subsystems are huge and those who can make them would have an unfair advantage). I was thinking of collecting a list of exemplary material for the participants to help them gain an idea of what they could all do (eventually ending up with a big enough list to form another compendium even, maybe). Heck, the original MUHA had some entries that were NUbrew, Amechra's entry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13403477&postcount=3) being a great example of one that falls into the third category.

So this is basically an interest check: would you like to see another MUHA? Would you like to participate? Would you perhaps like to show off some NUbrew in this thread? Link to works you like, mechanically or fluffwise? Then come on right in.


THE CONTEST IS HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16333711#post16333711)!

Temotei
2013-10-22, 02:45 PM
MY PROFESSION? Well, I've always wanted to be a judge. :smallamused:

Xhosant
2013-10-22, 04:38 PM
Although largely complicated, on both validity and inception, I think it's interesting.

ArcturusV
2013-10-22, 06:23 PM
Sounds pretty nifty. I'll toss my hat into that ring and pop something out.

D20ragon
2013-10-22, 06:27 PM
Sounds good. I'm sub par at homebrew,but more unusual things are a plus

Xaotiq1
2013-10-22, 06:30 PM
Color me interested! As long as my life doesn't crap on me; I'll be in!

Pyromancer999
2013-10-22, 08:51 PM
I would be quite interested.

ArcturusV
2013-10-22, 09:00 PM
Reminds me, since it's on the tangent of NUbrew (As far as I can tell) and that I'm horrible at estimating fair prices for things, link to and ask for a price check on two items I whipped up for a class. From my Elemental Paladins Project:

Fiery Vengeance: This weapon enchantment is the chosen weapon of a Champion of Flame. When used by a character without Champion of Flame levels this weapon operates as a +2 Flaming weapon of it's type. Fiery Vengeance weapons come in all forms and there is no "typical" weapon for a Champion of Flame's weapon to be.
In the hands of a Champion of Flame however the Fiery Vengeance is a +5 weapon. While wielding the Fiery Vengeance weapon the Champion of Flame Ember's Embrace deals two points of damage/healing for each point spent, and adds his Champion of Flame level again to his Smite Elemental Damage.

Brass Winged Armor: Brass Winged Armor is usually formed out of the metal of it's name, and if not bears ornamentation of said metal. Brass Winged Armor always however has two wings coming out of the armor near the shoulder blades, measuring a foot and a half in length, up swept from the shoulders and forged of fine brass.
This armor enchantment is meant for the Champion of Flame, and it is in his hands that this power truly takes effect. To those who do not have levels in Champion of Flame this armor functions as a +3 armor of it's appropriate type (Usually Plate, Half-Plate, or Field Plate, though it can be applied to any armor).
When worn by a Champion of Flame it functions as a +5 armor of it's type and gives the Champion of Flame an hour use of the ability On Wings of Fire. If the Champion of Flame already has this ability through class levels, the Champion of Flames gains a +20 feet increase to his fly speed while using On Wings of Fire.

I honestly don't know how much these Enchantments should be worth when tacked onto an item.

Morph Bark
2013-10-23, 03:33 AM
MY PROFESSION? Well, I've always wanted to be a judge. :smallamused:

For what it's worth, of the many homebrewers, you'd certainly be part of my... :smallcool: pantheon.


Although largely complicated, on both validity and inception, I think it's interesting.

You're right on that. The original MUHA did not bar any sort of brew for it, but I was thinking of doing one without the usual things, as those have their own contests on GitP, and I wanted to see what wonderful things the minds of the brewers here could think up with that restriction.

If it doesn't turn out well, lacks severely in entries/popularity, then no potential follow-up MUHAs will have this restriction. (And if it does turn out well, then the potential follow-up MUHAs may still lack it, as we'll switch things up for each one!)


Reminds me, since it's on the tangent of NUbrew (As far as I can tell) and that I'm horrible at estimating fair prices for things, link to and ask for a price check on two items I whipped up for a class. From my Elemental Paladins Project:

*snip*

I honestly don't know how much these Enchantments should be worth when tacked onto an item.

Reading over these, I'm reminded of some non-unique magic weapons that have variable effects, such as the Holy Avenger in Core. Perhaps an analysis of the costs of that weapon will really help you in finding the cost for these.


Looks like a fair bit of good interest so far. Thanks guys! I'll poke around for some other people suitable for judging, if they may be willing. I'm also thinking of perhaps expanding this contest to Minmaxboards, to give it some extra views and participants, but I won't do that if possibly entrants from GitP are opposed to it.

Milo v3
2013-10-23, 03:57 AM
I'm guessing the previous judges would be replaced by a new selection? Though I wouldn't be surprised if some of the previous ones are judges again.

Felyndiira
2013-10-23, 05:47 PM
I really like the NUBrew category idea. I do think that it's only fair to include new systems, though, for the following reasons:


They are very difficult to complete, so anyone who can create a complex system deserves any unfair advantages they may get. Simple systems does not have unfair advantages anyway.
Complex systems are allowed in existing competitions anyway. Someone can attach a new magic system to a base class, for example.
Thie third category can already get really huge depending on what it is.


I have an idea for #3 (things that lie completely outside of official material), but I would like to see all three categories be included. #2 is heavily limited, and #3 is unconventional and not for everyone, so having systems in the competition will greatly broaden its scope and allow for more interest.

Just to Browse
2013-10-24, 06:57 PM
If I'm going to write a subsystem, I need at least 1 school break. So, maybe 2-3 months wait time for submissions, because it's hard enough as-is to write within the lines of the crazy that is 3.x.

My problem is that I have an idea for a subsystem, but tying that to a theme is unlikely (by virtue of the sheer number of themes out there). To follow that, writing a system based off a theme seems awfully restrictive. It jives with me for Base/Pr classes, but whole subsystems feels unnecessarily preventative. Of course several were written anyways, so maybe that's just me.

AgentofHellfire
2013-10-24, 07:09 PM
Well, I'm not sure what this qualifies as, but I've really been wanting to go into detail about the theologies of the various core deities--doctrines, sects, holy texts...things of that nature. Hell, maybe I'll write Gruumsh's or Kord's bible.

If that's NUbrew, I'd be up for some of this. :smallsmile:

Seerow
2013-10-24, 07:09 PM
If I'm going to write a subsystem, I need at least 1 school break. So, maybe 2-3 months wait time for submissions, because it's hard enough as-is to write within the lines of the crazy that is 3.x.

My problem is that I have an idea for a subsystem, but tying that to a theme is unlikely (by virtue of the sheer number of themes out there). To follow that, writing a system based off a theme seems awfully restrictive. It jives with me for Base/Pr classes, but whole subsystems feels unnecessarily preventative. Of course several were written anyways, so maybe that's just me.

I agree time is a big factor. The sorts of things mentioned in the OP are major projects, and not the sort of thing that can be done quickly.

That said, if this does happen it could be the kick in the pants I need to get to work on the new magic item subsystem I've had stewing in the back of my mind for the last year or two.

Temotei
2013-10-24, 11:48 PM
Well, I'm not sure what this qualifies as, but I've really been wanting to go into detail about the theologies of the various core deities--doctrines, sects, holy texts...things of that nature. Hell, maybe I'll write Gruumsh's or Kord's bible.

If that's NUbrew, I'd be up for some of this. :smallsmile:

That would almost certainly qualify.

Of course, you'll probably want to call the books something else so they're not connected to a real-world religion, but it's up to you, I reckon. It is basically unrelated homebrew even if it shares a name.

Morph Bark
2013-10-25, 03:07 AM
Well, I'm not sure what this qualifies as, but I've really been wanting to go into detail about the theologies of the various core deities--doctrines, sects, holy texts...things of that nature. Hell, maybe I'll write Gruumsh's or Kord's bible.

If that's NUbrew, I'd be up for some of this. :smallsmile:

That would almost certainly qualify.

Of course, you'll probably want to call the books something else so they're not connected to a real-world religion, but it's up to you, I reckon. It is basically unrelated homebrew even if it shares a name.

It certainly would qualify, under the assumption that you'll include mechanics for various things in amongst the fluff.

I believe the non-class entries in the first MUHA had a lot of fluff to them as well, but very well tied to their mechanics.


I agree time is a big factor. The sorts of things mentioned in the OP are major projects, and not the sort of thing that can be done quickly.

That said, if this does happen it could be the kick in the pants I need to get to work on the new magic item subsystem I've had stewing in the back of my mind for the last year or two.

The other contests here usually have 4-6 weeks of submission time. MUHA, due to its wider and deeper scope, is closer to 8.

I'll send out some pokes to people to ask if they want to judge (and if not, if they want to participate), if they have the time of course. Considering in the last 48 hours there has been no complaint about also doing this simultaneously on Minmaxboards, I'll post a thread there later to do an interest check. (But if I do it there as well, and a person wins on one board, the best entry on the other will of course get an honourable mention at the very least.) Once judges are found, I'll post the thread and turn this one into the chat thread.

Considering most of the coming months are filled with holidays (at least their last weeks), I'd make it last at least 2 months, so likely have the end date as 8 January at the earliest. What do you folks think?

ArcturusV
2013-10-25, 03:16 AM
Sounds good to me. Plenty of time with stretches between and after the holidays.

Just to Browse
2013-10-25, 03:32 AM
The sooner you start, the better.

Avalon®
2013-10-25, 08:40 AM
I think I might toss my hat into the ring if this interests me.

Kazyan
2013-10-25, 09:12 AM
Perhaps there should be two divisions in MUHA: One for subsystems and other large works, and another for the small miscellaneous NUbrew. Having only subsystems as NUbrew would get overwhelming fast.

unbeliever536
2013-10-25, 04:30 PM
Would additional magic items inspired by some less-used items in the dmg qualify (eg, variations on the Apparatus of Kilwash?).

Morph Bark
2013-10-25, 06:07 PM
Would additional magic items inspired by some less-used items in the dmg qualify (eg, variations on the Apparatus of Kilwash?).

As a set you mean? Sure, sounds good. Figuring up a story around them would boost it for sure.

Essentially, it will be graded on Fluff, Mechanical Balance and Originality, among other things. I'm not sure what the other things are yet, but the original MUHA was graded on four things and I forgot the fourth.

Temotei
2013-10-25, 06:38 PM
As a set you mean? Sure, sounds good. Figuring up a story around them would boost it for sure.

Essentially, it will be graded on Fluff, Mechanical Balance and Originality, among other things. I'm not sure what the other things are yet, but the original MUHA was graded on four things and I forgot the fourth.

Objective, balance, flavor, and originality were the four.

Morph Bark
2013-10-26, 04:53 AM
A good question was asked over in the Minmaxboards iteration of this thread:

How does the new subsystem thing work, given the "no classes" stricture? Does it have to be accessible only through feats, items, and skill points, or via some entirely new mechanism?

A good question, and one I have admittedly not given as much thought as the rest. However, a subsystem can exist without classes, even if it is only accessible through classes. For instance, if you take out the classes out of ToB or ToM, you still have very clear subsystems. The only problems you then have are at what level the abilities in the subsystem are appropriate at (though ToB makes that very clear through initiator level rules outlined outside of the classes), and some miscellaneous things, such as ToB's maneuver recovery methods.

Perhaps I'll have to adjust my explanation for that category that such entries may need a "skeleton class" of sorts. One without class features, BAB, saves, HD, skills and proficiencies, but with some basic ways a class could utilise the subsystem, at what class level the various abilities of the subsystem are appropriate, and so on. Basically, the Binder's list of at what level he gains which level of Vestige, at what levels he can bind more, and the mechanics of binding the vestige that are in the class. Or the Warblade's recovery method, and how many Maneuvers Readied/Maneuvers Known/Stances Known he has at each level, and which disciplines he has access to. Only the absolute necessities of the class that deal purely with the subsystem.


Considering this idea is very new, this first use of it would be sort of a test run, and for all we know there might be entries with subsystems that don't even require a skeleton class of this sort.


Objective, balance, flavor, and originality were the four.

Ahh, thank you. Well, considering the Objective in this iteration would basically be "make some NUbrew" and other things aren't allowed in, I guess we'll only have three things to grade on. For future potential incarnations of MUHA, there will be certain themes again such as for the first, but before then I want to see what there is to show, what there is to offer, and what place NUbrew could have in contests.

ArcturusV
2013-10-26, 05:08 AM
Other odd question: Limit on entries or something? I imagine there is one, only because it seems most contests are One Entry Only. But hell, long duration to this contest. I might want to cook up quite a few different things, weapons, enhancements, spells, feats, subsystems, etc.

Morph Bark
2013-10-27, 04:12 PM
Other odd question: Limit on entries or something? I imagine there is one, only because it seems most contests are One Entry Only. But hell, long duration to this contest. I might want to cook up quite a few different things, weapons, enhancements, spells, feats, subsystems, etc.

I will likely discuss that with the other judges first, but right now I'm thinking I'd be okay with that on the condition that they all fit together as a coherent whole, mechanically/fluff-wise. They would still be considered only one entry, however*, and it'd be up to the participants to decide whether that would make their entry better or worse.


*This rule may change in some future iterations of MUHA. The rules of the contest are solidly set for each iteration, but may change between them. That's what makes it the Mixed Ultimate Homebrew Arts competition.

Morph Bark
2013-10-30, 05:14 AM
PMs have been sent out to potential judges, so far I've got three definite ones, once I've got a fourth (and possibly a fifth) I'll post the threads and we can begin!

ArcturusV
2013-10-30, 06:10 AM
Sweet, can't wait to get started.

Xhosant
2013-10-31, 12:50 PM
Does an overhaul of Craft(trapmaking) into a non-craft, more usable-on-the-move skill qualify?

It always bugged me how long it took to set a green tripwire in dense foliage.

Epsilon Rose
2013-10-31, 03:25 PM
A question: 2 years ago, I had the idea for an overhaul of the magic system. I sort-of started it, but never actually did anything with it. There's been a skeleton of it posted on these forums since then. Would actually finishing that be a valid entry?

If you want to see what's actually been done with it, it's the Magic System Fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205399) linked in my sig (and here). There will be some changes from the mechanics outlined in that post.

Morph Bark
2013-11-01, 06:21 AM
THE CONTEST HAS BEEN MADE. SEE HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16333711#post16333711).


A question: 2 years ago, I had the idea for an overhaul of the magic system. I sort-of started it, but never actually did anything with it. There's been a skeleton of it posted on these forums since then. Would actually finishing that be a valid entry?

If you want to see what's actually been done with it, it's the Magic System Fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205399) linked in my sig (and here). There will be some changes from the mechanics outlined in that post.

Entries have to be entirely new, not posted elsewhere before, sorry. If you take some things from your subsystem's mechanics and rework them into something entirely new though, that's perfectly fine.

Kazyan
2013-11-01, 08:05 AM
*rubs ands* I've got something, but depending on how much time I have between NaNoWriMo and D&D, it might be a while. Or I could do something for category #2. It depends.

ArcturusV
2013-11-01, 08:29 AM
Huh... totally forgot about NaNo... not at all prepared for it though. Probably won't do it this year.

Now, to come up with, and cook something that hopefully will be interesting for this.

Amechra
2013-11-01, 09:06 AM
I am excited. I hope to at least go out in a blaze of glory.

Morph Bark
2013-11-01, 09:42 AM
Also to note, which I have yet to edit in to the contest post: there will be a list of Honourable Entries, one for each Best Of for each category of judgment, each category of entry, and one for each board (that is, the ones that aren't the ultimate champion).


I am excited. I hope to at least go out in a blaze of glory.

And what I hope as glorious a blaze it can be. :smallamused:

Sgt. Cookie
2013-11-01, 10:35 AM
Hm. It's been a while since I've homebrewed anything for D&D. I just might give this a go with a subsystem.

ArcturusV
2013-11-01, 01:33 PM
Ha ha, off to the races. I already got a concept and it's really dragging me along. Not quite a "Subsystem" but will be a gaggle of stuff with a thematic relationship. Dunno how good it'll end up, but should be fun trying.

Jormengand
2013-11-01, 01:50 PM
If I make my own plane which functions in weird ways, would that qualify for category... 2? I haven't seen many (or, as far as I remember, any) homebrewed planes, after all. If so, would I be able to enter the denizens of the plane and items they commonly drop as part of the submission?

Also, do the entries have to be serious? Because mine... well, isn't.

Fax Celestis
2013-11-01, 04:21 PM
I am pondering things, will likely enter.

Morph Bark
2013-11-01, 06:06 PM
If I make my own plane which functions in weird ways, would that qualify for category... 2? I haven't seen many (or, as far as I remember, any) homebrewed planes, after all. If so, would I be able to enter the denizens of the plane and items they commonly drop as part of the submission?

Also, do the entries have to be serious? Because mine... well, isn't.

That would be category 2, yes. By "denizens of the plane", do you mean creature statblocks and the like? If so, then no. Sorry, but even with allowing one class for the subsystems a lot of thinking and pondering was done before we settled on allowing that. For future iterations of MUHA, this may (and likely will) be different.

Entries don't have to be serious, as long as you take the participation at least somewhat serious! I think it may lose you a few points in Fluff, but you may gain some in Originality instead. As long as you can make it balanced, I'd say go for it.


I am pondering things, will likely enter.

That should be interesting.

Jormengand
2013-11-01, 06:40 PM
That would be category 2, yes. By "denizens of the plane", do you mean creature statblocks and the like? If so, then no. Sorry, but even with allowing one class for the subsystems a lot of thinking and pondering was done before we settled on allowing that. For future iterations of MUHA, this may (and likely will) be different.

Entries don't have to be serious, as long as you take the participation at least somewhat serious! I think it may lose you a few points in Fluff, but you may gain some in Originality instead. As long as you can make it balanced, I'd say go for it.

All right, they'll be released after the contest is over, then. Meanwhile, I would like to welcome you, ladies and gentlemen, to the plane of knowledge... AKA, THE INTERNET! *Dun dun... duuuuuuun!*

I warned you it wouldn't be serious...

Zaydos
2013-11-01, 07:36 PM
I've got a few ideas.

And some questions:

Would new symbiotes be allowed (they have monster stat blocks but play a very different role)?

Would a new take on truename based magic which made truenames into something more akin to at-will command word activated items and not a class feature be allowed (i.e. completely ignoring ToM's attempt)?

These two questions are for unrelated ideas if you didn't realize already.

Milo v3
2013-11-02, 02:49 AM
I know it would pale in comparison to Xenoalchemy, but would an expansion of the grafting rules be appropriate? I'm thinking of updating all existing grafts to use the Eberron Grafting rules and adding in much much much more grafts of every type and new types.

Aldurin
2013-11-02, 08:52 AM
Definitely interested in participating in this, I've got a few planned homebrew ideas and prioritizing one of them for this may work out.

Questions on the rules:

So according to 4 and 4b, our NUbrew can have one base class using the system. Are there restrictions on PrC usage? One of my ideas would require a couple of them to fully illustrate the system.

Restriction on space? Do we have to keep everything in one post, or are multiple posts allowed as long as it's a consecutive chain posted without reserving?

Interactions with other systems/homebrew? If the fluff of a system is partially built from the existence of another system, would including details/mechanics that tie or reference both be judged? I ask as there is some official material and some heavy fixes of systems that have strong fluff ties to one of my ideas, and I want to know if that is something that's worth waiting on fleshing out.

Morph Bark
2013-11-02, 03:21 PM
Would new symbiotes be allowed (they have monster stat blocks but play a very different role)?

As they are effectively monsters, I'm gonna have to say no to those. However, do write your notes about that idea down, symbiotes are very intriguing and I'd love to see them! Whether as entries to a future MUHA, or seperate from it!


Would a new take on truename based magic which made truenames into something more akin to at-will command word activated items and not a class feature be allowed (i.e. completely ignoring ToM's attempt)?

That sounds very interesting. Go for it! I hope you can make it work.


I know it would pale in comparison to Xenoalchemy, but would an expansion of the grafting rules be appropriate? I'm thinking of updating all existing grafts to use the Eberron Grafting rules and adding in much much much more grafts of every type and new types.

Sure, that's entirely fine. Go for it!


So according to 4 and 4b, our NUbrew can have one base class using the system. Are there restrictions on PrC usage? One of my ideas would require a couple of them to fully illustrate the system.

No PrCs will be allowed, similarly to no races or monsters. The one base class was allowed after careful deliberation for subsystems only to showcase how they'd work. For future iterations of MUHA, this rule will be scrapped and the contest will be open to entries of all mechanical natures again, but for this iteration the Objective of the contest is mechanical in nature, and so PrCs are not allowed.


Restriction on space? Do we have to keep everything in one post, or are multiple posts allowed as long as it's a consecutive chain posted without reserving?

You may use multiple posts if you think you require them, but please make sure that they're all filled and not just "reserved" when you post it. Otherwise, there's no restriction.

Just don't, y'know, write an entire book. :smalltongue:


Interactions with other systems/homebrew? If the fluff of a system is partially built from the existence of another system, would including details/mechanics that tie or reference both be judged? I ask as there is some official material and some heavy fixes of systems that have strong fluff ties to one of my ideas, and I want to know if that is something that's worth waiting on fleshing out.

As long as it can be used entirely seperate from other homebrew, it's fine. We don't want to give the judges more work than necessary, and if we were to allow homebrew based off other homebrew, we'd need to understand that other homebrew first. Plus, if we'd do that, you might lose points in originality and if the other homebrew isn't well-balanced, yours has greater chance of being imbalanced as a result.

Extra material as asides, like rules on how it interacts with incarnum or something, are fine, as they wouldn't be part of the main core of the entry. Kind of like how incarnum has some interactions with arcane and divine magic, but they're very small parts of it.


Halfway through the contest I mean to check on entries already posted at that time and give advice to the posters with regards to things that might be iffy rules-wise and how to make that better. I don't plan on giving advice on how to balance it, make it more comprehensive, make it less/more complex, and so on. If I accidentally end up doing so, I will disqualify myself from judging and leave it up to the wonderful team of judges that has been assembled by myself and Temotei.

Kazyan
2013-11-02, 03:24 PM
I'm planning on something similar to the grafting/Xenoalchemist, but more specialized. Imagine replacing your blood with what amounts to, say, potions. Sanguine Amalgams--they'll be like a new category of magic item that you inject instead of equip. Of course, there's resource management, in that you get weaker with less actual blood in your system.

Amechra
2013-11-02, 04:58 PM
The truly important question is...

How many entries are we allowed?

Zaydos
2013-11-02, 05:24 PM
As they are effectively monsters, I'm gonna have to say no to those. However, do write your notes about that idea down, symbiotes are very intriguing and I'd love to see them! Whether as entries to a future MUHA, or seperate from it!

It was a half-formed idea at most, was thinking about doing a bunch of dream themed abilities starting with a variant that gives every PC dream based powers, and possibly expanding into some feats, items, grafts, and symbiotes that worked with it, but I decided to ask before I re-familiarized myself with symbiote rules since I love them but the last time I read their rules was when Dragon Magazine had some illithid symbiotes and that was... before Lords of Madness came out I think.



That sounds very interesting. Go for it! I hope you can make it work.

Well it shouldn't be harder than making a list of slotless magic items which have unique effects and abilities usable at-will... that can be freely shared between people... ok, it should be easier than making a truenamer fix that people like and that actually works. I can do it... I think. I hope.

Well I've got two solid ideas, hopefully I'll have more get up and go for homebrewing next week.

sirpercival
2013-11-02, 06:55 PM
You may use multiple posts if you think you require them, but please make sure that they're all filled and not just "reserved" when you post it. Otherwise, there's no restriction.

Just don't, y'know, write an entire book. :smalltongue:

How can you say this during NaNoWriMo?

:p

(also, sorry if I write an entire book.)

ArcturusV
2013-11-02, 09:52 PM
Question on the "Monster" rule:

Would templates (Particularly Templates that can be acquired during play, not forced into character generation) fall under that ruling of No? I'm still tinkering with ideas and one of them involves a warping of people that would very easily be solved by applicable templates, at least with a simple, elegance to the mechanics side of life.

I can probably make it something else... but it'd be messier. Might still drop the idea if it's too much hassle. It's early still.

Avalon®
2013-11-03, 07:29 PM
Guess I'll throw my hat into the ring.

What would you guys prefer? A rework/expansion of the ghost feats from Ghostwalk or an expanded Incarnum system?

D20ragon
2013-11-03, 07:37 PM
Ghosts,ghosts!
One can never have enough undead:smallamused:

Milo v3
2013-11-03, 08:11 PM
Ghosts,ghosts!
One can never have enough undead:smallamused:

To bad those ghosts aren't undead :smallamused:

Avalon®
2013-11-03, 08:25 PM
Hence the rewrite. :smallwink:

ArcturusV
2013-11-03, 08:36 PM
I find ghosts are a cool concept in fiction, but one that isn't really explored in DnD all that much. So I support it and will be interested to see what happens.

Milo v3
2013-11-03, 08:51 PM
Hence the rewrite. :smallwink:

So your changing them to undead. Hmm... Interesting. They are typeshifted into Fey in my game personally, but thats just cause Fey need some love.

Morph Bark
2013-11-04, 02:56 AM
How can you say this during NaNoWriMo?

Oh you!


Guess I'll throw my hat into the ring.

What would you guys prefer? A rework/expansion of the ghost feats from Ghostwalk or an expanded Incarnum system?

A rework and expansion of those feats, I'd say, considering by rules of the contest the other one wouldn't be allowed. :smallwink:

unbeliever536
2013-11-05, 02:13 AM
Can I include one or more ACFs in my homebrew?

Morph Bark
2013-11-05, 06:22 AM
Can I include one or more ACFs in my homebrew?

Sure you can, though I am curious in what manner you will include ACFs without including base classes or a race with racial substitution levels.

Seerow
2013-11-05, 06:24 AM
Sure you can, though I am curious in what manner you will include ACFs without including base classes or a race with racial substitution levels.

I'd imagine it's something along the lines of "Check out this new subsystem. Here's some ACFs for core classes that use it"

sirpercival
2013-11-07, 08:39 AM
Hey MB, I asked some questions over on MMX (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11627.20;msg=199412) which you may have missed, so I'm reposting them here:



Alright, so what exactly is allowed as part of an entry? We've established a max of 1 (hopefully bare-bones) base class, and no prcs. Are you allowed to include things like templates? Example monster statblocks? NPCs? ACFs or variants for existing base classes? Are elements of existing subsystems allowed (like MoI had spells, powers, and invocations, and ToB had spells)?

I assume that any mechanical element not included in the verboten list from the NUBrew description (items, feats, affiliations, etc.) is fair game.

Let me put it this way. For what I'm envisioning, the ideal entry allowance would be:
Standalone subsystem writeup
Base class/prcs ACFs/variants for existing base classes
Feats
Items possibly
Example monster/NPC writeups
Links to existing subsystems (spells/invocations/powers/soulmelds/etc.)
Maybe an affiliation

What of that is allowed?

Morph Bark
2013-11-07, 01:40 PM
Hey MB, I asked some questions over on MMX (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11627.20;msg=199412) which you may have missed, so I'm reposting them here:

Out of those things, I'd say nearly all of them are fine, except the links to existing subsystems. It's not that they're necessarily disallowed, but they're iffy. If you have a way of implementing such a link without creating spells/invocations/powers/soulmelds/etc., then it's completely fine.

(Also posted this on MMX, so that other participants there also have access to the answer without having to go to the GitP thread.)

EDIT: Monsters are also not allowed, but templates are fine.

Zaydos
2013-11-07, 01:48 PM
Would these be appropriate hypothetically:

Midnight/Azure X feat which grants you 1 bonus point of essentia and the ability to invest essentia in some ability based on the new system. Was actually thinking about this one.

ACFs that let a warblade trade stances for ability X from your new thing. Now I'm thinking about this one.

Magic item set that grants various bonuses when binding vestiges up to an extra vestige bound as the full set bonus. Very much not saying this is a good idea.

Magic item that increases your Meldshaper level among other effects. Yeah at this point these are just examples to find out limits.

And I'm not sure I like my first idea, so it's probably time to start nosing stuff in my second idea.

Jormengand
2013-11-07, 02:27 PM
By "denizens of the plane", do you mean creature statblocks and the like? If so, then no.
Out of those things, I'd say nearly all of them are fine, except the links to existing subsystems.
You've disallowed creatures, and also allowed them. Which is correct?

Morph Bark
2013-11-07, 03:43 PM
You've disallowed creatures, and also allowed them. Which is correct?

Edited the post upon realizing the mistake. I saw the monsters before there, thought on how to construct the post, then forgot about it while typing! Derp moment there, sorry. Monsters are not allowed. Templates are fine if they're really necessary. I'd personally grade it better if entrants stay further away from the classes-n-creatures standard, though.

Zaydos
2013-11-07, 06:44 PM
Does anyone know how/if it's possible to type in the international phonetic alphabet on the forums? If I go with my second idea that might be useful.

Also in case it was missed, are these appropriate ways to tie something with an existing subsystem (take your time, I'm just getting started on the basic thing which is my 2nd idea, non-class based true name magic because it's fun to make one not at all based on WotC's version... I foresee problems when I get to creatures personal true names).


Would these be appropriate hypothetically:

Midnight/Azure X feat which grants you 1 bonus point of essentia and the ability to invest essentia in some ability based on the new system. Was actually thinking about this one.

ACFs that let a warblade trade stances for ability X from your new thing. Now I'm thinking about this one.

Magic item set that grants various bonuses when binding vestiges up to an extra vestige bound as the full set bonus. Very much not saying this is a good idea.

Magic item that increases your Meldshaper level among other effects. Yeah at this point these are just examples to find out limits.

And I'm not sure I like my first idea, so it's probably time to start nosing stuff in my second idea.

Beelzebub1111
2013-11-09, 12:54 PM
Finally came up with a theme for a mechanical idea that I've been putting together. Now comes the hard part for me. Balancing out the advancement of the class.

Morph Bark
2013-11-09, 01:23 PM
Would these be appropriate hypothetically:

Midnight/Azure X feat which grants you 1 bonus point of essentia and the ability to invest essentia in some ability based on the new system. Was actually thinking about this one.

ACFs that let a warblade trade stances for ability X from your new thing. Now I'm thinking about this one.

Magic item set that grants various bonuses when binding vestiges up to an extra vestige bound as the full set bonus. Very much not saying this is a good idea.

Magic item that increases your Meldshaper level among other effects. Yeah at this point these are just examples to find out limits.

Short answer: No. Yes. No. No.

In the context of the contest only, of course.

Rebonack
2013-11-09, 02:38 PM
Hmm...

Might I toss my Weapon Builder system into the mix here? Applying it to a character with Craft (Weapons) would allow them to dream up and churn out some pretty unique equipment.

Beelzebub1111
2013-11-10, 05:37 AM
Okay, so I have six "Schools" of a new type of magic. How many "Spells" per School would you say would be appropriate? Either to get a general idea of what each school is about or would it be incomplete without a full compliment of spells from each?

Like, would it be okay if I had, say, 5 spells in each to give an idea about the theme of each school? It should be noted that each spell will have five or six "orders of magnitude" for how they work.

Morph Bark
2013-11-10, 06:49 AM
Hmm...

Might I toss my Weapon Builder system into the mix here? Applying it to a character with Craft (Weapons) would allow them to dream up and churn out some pretty unique equipment.

As long as it hasn't been posted anywhere before, then yes.


Okay, so I have six "Schools" of a new type of magic. How many "Spells" per School would you say would be appropriate? Either to get a general idea of what each school is about or would it be incomplete without a full compliment of spells from each?

Like, would it be okay if I had, say, 5 spells in each to give an idea about the theme of each school? It should be noted that each spell will have five or six "orders of magnitude" for how they work.

I'd say you should use your own judgment for that, as you probably know best regarding your own work that isn't posted yet. :smallsmile:

Beelzebub1111
2013-11-10, 08:31 AM
In that case I'll just do what I can and leave it at that.

Oooh I've got a good feeling about this one. I'm already dreaming up about 7 potential prestige classes, new feats, magic items, equipment, a deity...So much fun to be had.

ArcturusV
2013-11-12, 10:39 PM
Odd question: What I have planned for my MUHA entry here may dovetail very nicely into another project someone is getting me interested. I know there's a rule against posting stuff as MUHA entries that are posted elsewhere, does the reverse of that hold true? Can I have a valid entry where I post something in MUHA, then later post it in that other project topic?

Temotei
2013-11-13, 04:18 AM
Odd question: What I have planned for my MUHA entry here may dovetail very nicely into another project someone is getting me interested. I know there's a rule against posting stuff as MUHA entries that are posted elsewhere, does the reverse of that hold true? Can I have a valid entry where I post something in MUHA, then later post it in that other project topic?

If it hasn't been posted before the contest, it's valid, assuming it's your original work.

What you do with your work after the contest is up to you. A lot of people post outside of contests so they can get more critiques, as you don't get any in the contest thread itself and posting them in the chat thread is all well and good, but a little out of the way.

giggyex
2013-11-17, 12:29 PM
High interest. I have my idea ready. Does anyone know of a bb code editor that i could you use to preview my homebrew without posting the whole thing?

Morph Bark
2013-11-17, 12:37 PM
High interest. I have my idea ready. Does anyone know of a bb code editor that i could you use to preview my homebrew without posting the whole thing?

I don't know of such thing, but you can always use the "Preview Post" button right next to "Submit Reply" when typing out a post.

giggyex
2013-11-17, 02:24 PM
I don't know of such thing, but you can always use the "Preview Post" button right next to "Submit Reply" when typing out a post.

Thank you.

Just to Browse
2013-12-01, 06:02 PM
So there have been back and forth response about ACFs (Zaydos got no, sirpercival seems to have a yes). My question is: Is it OK to write ACFs to support our written subsystem? Can it be done in lieu of including a base class?

Also, does shadowcasting count as officially overlooked?

Temotei
2013-12-01, 06:40 PM
So there have been back and forth response about ACFs (Zaydos got no, sirpercival seems to have a yes). My question is: Is it OK to write ACFs to support our written subsystem? Can it be done in lieu of including a base class?

Also, does shadowcasting count as officially overlooked?

Zaydos got a yes to his warblade ACF question, if that's what you're referring to.

Just to Browse
2013-12-01, 07:07 PM
Zaydos got a yes to his warblade ACF question, if that's what you're referring to.

I have another question: Why is it so difficult for me to read?

Temotei
2013-12-01, 07:17 PM
I have another question: Why is it so difficult for me to read?

Maybe we should just bold everything. :smalltongue:

sirpercival
2013-12-04, 10:12 PM
Hey folks, I posted my (mostly complete) entry over on mmx (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11697.msg205415#msg205415) (note that it's 2 posts due to character limits).

The only remaining pieces are fluff-related, so I decided to just throw it up there and see if I could get some feedback. Anyone who'd like to take a gander, it would be greatly appreciated.

Morph Bark
2013-12-15, 05:10 PM
Alright! We're halfway through December, so chop-chop people! Don't presume you'll have time during Christmas and New Years. :smallwink:

Pyromancer999
2013-12-16, 12:15 AM
Alright! We're halfway through December, so chop-chop people! Don't presume you'll have time during Christmas and New Years. :smallwink:

Ha! No social life till college starts up again for me, so I have all the time in the world!....that, plus the contest says till the 15th of January.

That aside, can I PM you a question about my idea for an entry? I like to keep my ideas as tightly under wraps as I can until the actual thing is posted.

Morph Bark
2013-12-16, 10:51 AM
Ha! No social life till college starts up again for me, so I have all the time in the world!....that, plus the contest says till the 15th of January.

That aside, can I PM you a question about my idea for an entry? I like to keep my ideas as tightly under wraps as I can until the actual thing is posted.

Oh you. :smalltongue:

Sure, feel free to.

Morph Bark
2014-01-12, 08:28 AM
The set deadline is drawing near. How's everybody doing? There haven't been any entries posted yet on the GitP entry thread. Does anyone need an extension of the deadline?

Aldurin
2014-01-12, 08:31 AM
My planned idea didn't come together, and with my focus on getting my shadow magic stuff in good condition I just didn't have time to throw something together.

I do have a backburner idea I could finally stat out, but it's not something I can get done in time and isn't really intended for full PC use.

Morph Bark
2014-01-12, 08:34 AM
I do have a backburner idea I could finally stat out, but it's not something I can get done in time and isn't really intended for full PC use.

Well, that's one reason I'm asking whether people who wish to participate need an extension of the deadline. Also, entries don't need to be for PC use.

Prettymuch everything not outlined by the rules in the contest thread can be answered with "you can do that".

Aldurin
2014-01-12, 08:54 AM
Ok, I'll go for it if this gets a deadline extension. Hopefully there are others with the same sentiment, as winning the contest for the accomplishment of being there is moot.

Jormengand
2014-01-12, 03:25 PM
Yeah, I'd quite like it if this were to be extended a little. I don't have access to all my stuff at the moment.

Kazyan
2014-01-12, 03:57 PM
I could revisit my entry if given an extension, but I'm getting moved in to college and am currently dealing with a huge complication that is stressing me the heck out and won't get resolved for days. So, I might get some Sanguine Amalgams in if the deadline is extended, but maybe not.

Seerow
2014-01-12, 03:58 PM
I decided against my entry.

The fluff of my magic item system is eerily similar to the Wisp system posted up on the Min Max Boards, even if the mechanics are very different I didn't want to go through with making an extended write up of a system that's going to look like a rip off of the only other entry already posted.

Beelzebub1111
2014-01-12, 04:22 PM
I got halfway through writing the "spells" my new ToM-style system and hit a writer's block. So an extension would help out

Morph Bark
2014-01-12, 04:25 PM
Hmmm, how would everyone feel about a two-week extention, to the 31st?

sirpercival
2014-01-13, 09:49 AM
that would be lovely...

Aldurin
2014-01-13, 09:55 AM
Great, time to break out my emergency hallucinogen stash and get brewing!

Morph Bark
2014-01-13, 06:10 PM
Then the deadline of the contest is hereby officially extended to January 31st!

Rizban
2014-01-16, 01:31 AM
Still looking forward to judging this.

Temotei
2014-01-16, 01:34 AM
Still looking forward to judging this.

Same. :smallbiggrin:

Morph Bark
2014-01-24, 07:00 AM
Glad to hear. :smallbiggrin:

With this, I'm a little glad that my assessment interview for a school is before the end date now.

Hard work pays off.

sirpercival
2014-01-31, 09:35 AM
Where are all the entries?? :smalleek:

I'm trying to write the last bits of fluff for mine... ugh.

Aldurin
2014-01-31, 09:43 AM
I came to realize that my idea is a bit too overambitious at this point, combined with work and handling a recruitment thread for my next game that chatters like a classroom.

It's also probably because dealing with NUbrew in contest form is impractical for people like me, who take lots time to develop the idea and are tormented by the prospect of having a rushed or incomplete result posted. I wish I could have something ready for this, but I just don't.

If another MUHA comes around for a less ambitious category, I may try again and actually have something posted for it, but for now I guess congrats to the few who have managed to get their big ideas out in time for the contest.

Morph Bark
2014-02-01, 05:20 AM
We now have 4 entries total. Thank you, Jormengand! I was a little worried for the GitP side before when I came back from my school interview on Thursday.

I think the few entries are undoubtedly because of a twofold reason. Not only because the requirement for entry was mechanical in nature, but primarily because that mechanical requirement was basically "make something that isn't made very often". The only category that is a slight exception to that is an entirely new system, of which there are quite a lot, but they are usually only coming up when someone has the inspiration for it and will and time to work on it. Sirpercival created such an entry, and with how many of his projects are of this sort, he's clearly geared towards it, almost machine-like in efficiency.

Our other Minmaxboards entrants are Oslecamo and Veekie. Jormengand and Oslecamo both have entries to the Officially Overlooked category, with Sirpercival representing New Subsystems and Veekie representing Out Of The Box. Due to the limited amount of entries, I figure we don't need to announce category winners (what with 2/3rds of them only having one entry), which slightly speeds up the judging process. I'll contact the judges later so we can get to that, and hopefully we'll be done within a week.

The next MUHA, should there come one (highly dependent upon demand), will be fluff-wise in nature like the first one. There would probably be various categories still, with individual winners if there are multiple entries for them (base class, PrC, monster, race, subsystem, Officially Overlooked and Outside-the-Box, probably).

For future MUHAs, what do people think of my move to have it run on both GitP and Minmaxboards simultaneously and together as one contest?

Temotei
2014-02-01, 06:28 AM
For future MUHAs, what do people think of my move to have it run on both GitP and Minmaxboards simultaneously and together as one contest?

I'm all for it. It brings more variety to the contest and bridges two great forums. Good stuff.

sirpercival
2014-02-01, 07:35 AM
The only category that is a slight exception to that is an entirely new system, of which there are quite a lot, but they are usually only coming up when someone has the inspiration for it and will and time to work on it. Sirpercival created such an entry, and with how many of his projects are of this sort, he's clearly geared towards it, almost machine-like in efficiency.

I AM THE GOD OF SCOPE CREEP


Seriously, I almost never set out with the aim of creating a new subsystem... it just happens...

(This time was the exception, in that I did what I intended to do.)

Seerow
2014-02-01, 09:17 AM
I think the few entries are undoubtedly because of a twofold reason. Not only because the requirement for entry was mechanical in nature, but primarily because that mechanical requirement was basically "make something that isn't made very often". The only category that is a slight exception to that is an entirely new system, of which there are quite a lot, but they are usually only coming up when someone has the inspiration for it and will and time to work on it. Sirpercival created such an entry, and with how many of his projects are of this sort, he's clearly geared towards it, almost machine-like in efficiency.


Personally to me it seemed like the bigger issue was lack of clarity on what would or would not count. Notice in that first month most of the posts were people being really confused about what exactly you were looking for.

Like in the future, I imagine if you did something less open ended, you'd end up with more participation. Say you make a contest for "Come up with an alternate system to handle characters gaining templates", there's a good number of different ways people could run with that prompt, but nobody is left wondering what is and is not acceptable.

Jormengand
2014-02-01, 09:27 AM
Say you make a contest for "Come up with an alternate system to handle characters gaining templates", there's a good number of different ways people could run with that prompt, but nobody is left wondering what is and is not acceptable.

I also wouldn't have participated, because I wouldn't want to create that one, specific thing. I mean, I don't really have any problem with the current LA system (though I feel some of the LAs could be changed), nor do I (or really, many other people) use templates enough to merit multiple people actually coming up with their own, individual template rules, all of which have to be substantially different.

Temotei
2014-02-02, 07:30 AM
Personally to me it seemed like the bigger issue was lack of clarity on what would or would not count. Notice in that first month most of the posts were people being really confused about what exactly you were looking for.

Like in the future, I imagine if you did something less open ended, you'd end up with more participation. Say you make a contest for "Come up with an alternate system to handle characters gaining templates", there's a good number of different ways people could run with that prompt, but nobody is left wondering what is and is not acceptable.

Open-ended mechanical prompts are almost always going to have issues like these. However, making them very small in scope would likely have a similar effect on entry numbers. There are only so many ways you can make a workable alternate system for something like your example, and post order could mean a lot in such a contest, as someone before you may have had a similar idea. The room is smaller, so more toes are going to be stepped on.

I'm not saying that a smaller mechanically-based contest wouldn't work--just that such a contest would likely have similar issues regarding participation, if not more.

sirpercival
2014-02-02, 03:42 PM
That's why thematic restrictions are best. :smallcool:

Jormengand
2014-02-02, 04:56 PM
That's why thematic restrictions are best. :smallcool:

Except that they suck if you don't like that particular theme, or it's based on a series you've never heard of, or...

Yeah, please don't give it massive restrictions like that. If you must, at least draw up a list of 10-15 different themes/tasks/whatever so we actually have a choice.

Morph Bark
2014-02-03, 06:30 AM
Yeah, please don't give it massive restrictions like that. If you must, at least draw up a list of 10-15 different themes/tasks/whatever so we actually have a choice.

That's the way it's done with the Base Class Challenge and the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition here. The Prestige Class Contest theme is always chosen by ErrantX, but it has always been broad and popular, getting the most entries out of the DnD homebrew competitions I've seen. It has to do with the fact that classes provide a great framework as a base to work with, and PrCs can be as niche as they like, going wherever they want with the fluff-crunch connect.

For future MUHAs, we'll likely pick a theme with the organizers, possibly with inspiration drawn from potential entrants' suggestions.

Zaydos
2014-02-03, 01:43 PM
Well if you're up for suggestions, I'd like to say Vestiges.

Monsters, feats, prestige classes, new ways to use them, new base classes, maybe a cycle of legendary weapons or artifacts connected to vestiges, new vestiges.

Actually I probably could have done one of those for this, but I'm not actually sure which I could have done.

Beelzebub1111
2014-02-03, 02:25 PM
Perhaps each contest could be a different seldom created

Vestiges is a good idea. Magical Locations for another. Alternative Alignment systems for another. A martial style for another competition.

Jormengand
2014-02-03, 02:28 PM
Well if you're up for suggestions, I'd like to say Vestiges.

Monsters, feats, prestige classes, new ways to use them, new base classes, maybe a cycle of legendary weapons or artifacts connected to vestiges, new vestiges.

Actually I probably could have done one of those for this, but I'm not actually sure which I could have done.

I've seen quite a few vestige attempts on GitP.

Still have little idea what they are, though. They seem to be a little like spells and a little like summoned creatures.

Like I said before, "Make a new system to handle X" is probably not the best of ideas.

Zaydos
2014-02-03, 02:56 PM
Perhaps each contest could be a different seldom created

Vestiges is a good idea. Magical Locations for another. Alternative Alignment systems for another. A martial style for another competition.

And now I'm thinking of evil things that can be done with the theme of "Martial Arts". Magical locations could be fun. Alternative alignment systems I rarely like, but might do something working with the honor/dishonor system from 3.0 OA/3.5 UA.


I've seen quite a few vestige attempts on GitP.

Still have little idea what they are, though. They seem to be a little like spells and a little like summoned creatures.

Like I said before, "Make a new system to handle X" is probably not the best of ideas.

I'd actually say they're closer to spells and not at all like summoned creatures. They're more of a set of 2 or 3 passive class features and 1 or 2 active ones that you select at the beginning of the day. Fluff-wise they're mad spirits bound beyond reality that you let into your body for a joy ride (with heavy restraints) in return for power.

And that's one reason I suggested vestiges because you can do everything from a new system to a set of new spells, a Prestige Class, or a set of feats. It's one of the fluffiest subsystems in 3.5 and you could do something like a weapon of legacy or monster tied with their fluff and not mechanically resembling a vestige in anyway or something to do with the mechanics for a broad range of options. And once you have "You can make it on one of these 15 themes" you have more themes than competitors which just would end messily and be even harder to judge. Personally my favorite is how the Base Class and PF Grab bag do where there's a list of themes people vote for before the contest and one is used.

Jormengand
2014-02-03, 03:02 PM
And that's one reason I suggested vestiges because you can do everything from a new system to a set of new spells, a Prestige Class, or a set of feats.

Not very helpful if someone wants a contest which they can actually participate in without going out and buying a new book and learning some new rules, is it? I suppose I could go "Screw it, I'm going to write a whole new subsystem to handle the concept of vestiges despite having no idea how they work!" but that wouldn't end very well, I don't think.

So yeah, let's not have a "Buy this book or lose!" task.

Adam1949
2014-02-03, 03:12 PM
Not very helpful if someone wants a contest which they can actually participate in without going out and buying a new book and learning some new rules, is it? I suppose I could go "Screw it, I'm going to write a whole new subsystem to handle the concept of vestiges despite having no idea how they work!" but that wouldn't end very well, I don't think.

So yeah, let's not have a "Buy this book or lose!" task.

If I remember correctly, there are plenty of places which explain what a vestige is, what a Binder (the class that uses Vestiges currently) is, and how to make your own. Heck, I think even WotC gave out how to make them.

A Quick list of the official ones and what they do (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204941), An advice guide on how to make a good Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208231), The Binder's Consolidated Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2942.0), and finally Morph Bark's own compendium of homebrew vestiges from various people (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16203724&postcount=657). From these, you can easily glean what a Vestige, Binder, Pact, and so forth are.

Morph Bark
2014-02-04, 03:27 AM
Perhaps each contest could be a different seldom created

Vestiges is a good idea. Magical Locations for another. Alternative Alignment systems for another. A martial style for another competition.

The idea I suggested to Welknair for a second one after the first ended (before he poofed and this one was put up way later), was a theme of "the lay of the land", like how the first one's theme was "power has a price". Magical locations could fit that perfectly, but also geomancing PrCs, dwarven subraces or an artifact plow made from the Tarrasque's mother's jawbone.

Zaydos
2014-02-04, 03:55 AM
See now I'm thinking about making a realm in the Beastlands full of elves, complete with rules for the magical location, a new sub-race of outer planar elves, and a prestige class.

Though that reminds me of my problem with a magical location one, I'd be tempted to do something that was pure fluff, or if not fluff any crunch was just tacked on to have crunch.

Techwarrior
2014-02-04, 05:13 AM
That's the way it's done with the Base Class Challenge and the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition here. The Prestige Class Contest theme is always chosen by ErrantX, or that one weirdo, but it has always been broad and popular, getting the most entries out of the DnD homebrew competitions I've seen. It has to do with the fact that classes provide a great framework as a base to work with, and PrCs can be as niche as they like, going wherever they want with the fluff-crunch connect.

For future MUHAs, we'll likely pick a theme with the organizers, possibly with inspiration drawn from potential entrants' suggestions.

ErrantX is busy writing Dreamscarred Press's Path of War supplement. I've been officiating for a few months now.

On topic, I'd advise against something narrow like Vestiges or Alternate Alignment. Those are both, I feel, far too specific for the idea of this contest. (no offense to those who suggested these) This contest should have something large be it's scope, such that different people could easily create different types of things. For instance a contest with the theme of "The Void" could have entrants that create many different things. One could create more vestiges, and alternate rules for them. A second could create rules for Spelljamming through the void compatible with 3.5 or Pathfinder. A third might even create rules for a magical version of a localized black hole, essentially a deadly cross between a dead magic zone and a Living Disjunction, along with it's own cult: PrC and Paladin variant included.

Also, I would like to see "The Void" be the next contest.

Morph Bark
2014-02-17, 05:43 PM
The Results Are IN!

Before I begin, I must apologize for not having time to properly judge all of the submissions. While I’ve read much of them, I was too occupied with the sign-up process for a new school. As such, I resigned myself to making any tie-breakers, should they be necessary, but it appears that wasn’t necessary!

Unfortunately, two of our judges weren’t heard back from, though it had been unlikely for Welknair to be able to come back anyway. However, the rest of the panel did their task very well, and I trust their judgment completely. I have recently also heard back from MUHA I judge Owrtho, who told me that—though he couldn’t be present to participate or judge this MUHA, he’d be happy to help or participate in future iterations.

“I was really blown away by the quality of the entries,” one of the judges remarked about the MUHA II entries, and I find that telling, as I know all judges to be extensively experienced with creating their own homebrew and taking in the worth of and the effort put into other people’s homebrew.

Jormengand's The Internet received very good scores on Coherence across the board, but wasn’t deemed very original. Its Complexity was rated decently, though one judge scored it really low, so it was deemed either too complex or too simple by them.

Sirpercival's Wisps of Creation received top scores in Flavor, Originality and Coherence. Some of the judges deemed its Balance and Complexity to be off the mark, but they still all gave passing grades in those areas. It was deemed very coherent, though one judge noted that there was a lot of ‘excessive verbiage’ that complicated understanding it.

Veekie's Intimacies was rated very flavorful by everyone, though at least one score in Balance, Originality and Complexity dipped much lower than the rest, so the judges were slightly divided on them.

Oslecamo's Taint was deemed very Coherent by all the judges, so the wording was very clear! It was unfortunately not deemed original by most of the judges, though one of them rated it highly.

And now, the combined scores!

http://i.imgur.com/0BQl9tM.png

With an overall score of 175 out of 200, Wisps of Creation is the Mixed Ultimate Homebrew Arts II Contest winner! Congratulations, sirpercival, full A score!

I’d love to present some sort of trophy, but unfortunately we lack one at current. Either way, the honours go out to you.

It is left up to the judges whether they wish to reveal their opinion of the entries. Should they wish, I can post their opinions for them so that they may remain fully anonymous.

I have been pleased with the quality of the works that were entered! Slightly less so with the amount, but I’m sure that concern will be alleviated with a more easily understood and less limiting goal, which will also allow us to really pick winners within categories. I’d like to thank the judges for their time and effort in reviewing the entries. I hope to see many of you back for the third iteration of the Mixed Ultimate Homebrew Arts! Thank you, everybody, and see you all in the future!

Temotei
2014-02-17, 05:51 PM
Hey, everyone finished. Cool. Not bad speed-wise.

And yeah, all of the entries were really fun to read. I enjoyed judging quite a bit. :smallsmile:

Rizban
2014-02-17, 05:58 PM
Bah, I really meant to judge this. I just couldn't get through all the entries due to time constraints from unexpectedly having to move, plus anniversary and Valentine's, and effectively starting a brand new job with my company. I got about halfway through judging but didn't have time to finish it.

D20ragon
2014-02-17, 08:51 PM
Could we get a list of links to the projects? I've been lurking on this with some interest and I think the general populous would appreciate it.

sirpercival
2014-02-17, 09:13 PM
Mine is here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329429

Temotei
2014-02-18, 03:11 AM
The entries from MinMax as we read them are here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11697.0), though sirpercival's link will likely contain a more updated version of his entry as time goes by, so you'll want to read that unless you're curious.

Jormengand's entry on these forums is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16904078&postcount=2). His was the only entry on Giant in the Playground.

Jormengand
2014-02-18, 11:10 AM
Dammit, I lost.

Oh well. I did better than all but three people, so I feel proud. :p

Morph Bark
2014-02-20, 01:08 PM
Dammit, I lost.

Oh well. I did better than all but three people, so I feel proud. :p

That's the spirit! :smallwink:


Also, while I'll start thinking of new stuff for the next MUHA, it certainly won't come soon. Since there will be new tables on GitP for coding soon, I will want to start after that, at least, as otherwise tables can get mixed up while we're running.

It looks like this'll muck up all previously made tables, which is a great shame and disappointment for all the great homebrew classes here in GitP. :smallfrown: