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sournote103
2013-10-31, 08:58 PM
For various reasons, I decided to make a luchador class.
Don't question it. It happened, and I am crazy person.
What DOES need to happen is balancing, because some of this PROBABLY doesn't work how I wanted it to.

The Luchador
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d10
Starting Wealth: As Fighter

Class Skills
Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Perception, Perform (act), Perform (comedy), Perform (dance), Profession, Ride, and Swim

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |AC Bonus|CMB/CMD Bonus

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Wrestling Style, Bravado, Wrestling Mastery|+0|+1

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Luchador Maneuver|+0|+1

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Pummel 1d6|+0|+1

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Luchador Maneuver|+1|+2

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Greater Grapple|+1|+2

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Luchador Maneuver|+1|+2

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Pummel 1d8|+1|+3

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Luchador Maneuver|+2|+3

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Rapid Grappler|+2|+3

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Luchador Maneuver|+2|+4

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Pummel 1d10|+2|+4

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Luchador Maneuver|+3|+4

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat|+3|+5

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Luchador Maneuver|+3|+5

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|Pummel 2d6|+3|+5

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Luchador Maneuver|+3|+6

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat|+4|+6

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Luchador Maneuver|+4|+6

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Pummel 2d8|+4|+7

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Luchador Maneuver|+5|+7
[/table]

Weapon and armor proficiency
Weapon Proficiency: Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet, Cestus, and Brass Knuckles
Armor Proficiency: Light armor

Wrestling Style
At first level, a luchador gets Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple as bonus feats, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Bravado
Starting at first level, when a luchador is unarmored and unencumbered, he adds his Charisma modifier to his AC and CMD. In addition, he gains a +1 bonus to AC at fourth level and every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the lunchador is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Wrestling Mastery
Starting at first level, a luchador gets a +1 bonus to his CMB and CMD. He gains an additional +1 bonus to his CMB and CMD at fourth level and every three levels thereafter.

Luchador Maneuvers
As a luchador gains experience, he improves his existing maneuvers and learns new ones. Starting at 2nd level, a luchador gains one luchador maneuver. She gains an additional luchador maneuver for every 2 levels of luchador attained after 2nd level. A luchador cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Pummel
Starting at third level, a luchadorís unarmed strike deals 1d6 damage to creatures grappled by the luchador. At seventh level, the damage increases to 1d8 and the luchadorís unarmed strike deals 1d6 damage to creatures he has not grappled. At eleventh level, the luchadorís unarmed strike deals 1d10 damage to grappled creatures and 1d8 damage to other creatures. At fifteenth level, the luchadorís unarmed strike deals 2d6 damage to grappled creatures and 1d10 damage to other creatures. At nineteenth level, the luchadorís unarmed strike deals 2d8 damage to grappled creatures and 2d6 damage to other creatures.

Greater Grapple
At fifth level, a luchador gets Greater Grapple as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. If he already has the Greater Grapple feat, he may select another feat, but he must meet the prerequisites.

Rapid Grappler
At ninth level, a luchador gets Rapid Grappler as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. If he already has the Rapid Grappler feat, he may select another feat, but he must meet the prerequisites.

Bonus Feat
At thirteenth level, and again at seventeenth level, a luchador gains a bonus feat from the list of Fighter Bonus Feats.


Luchador Maneuvers
Agile Grappling
Prerequisite: BAB +4
Benefit: While grappling a creature, you only take a -2 penalty to Dexterity.
Normal: While grappling a creature, you take a -4 penalty to Dexterity.

Agile Grappling, Improved
Prerequisite: Agile Grappling, BAB +8
Benefit: While grappling a creature, you take no penalty to Dexterity.
Normal: While grappling a creature, you take a -4 penalty to Dexterity.

Body Slam
Benefit: As a standard action, you may make a combat maneuver check. For every one by which your attack exceeds the targetís CMD, the target takes one damage of the same type as your unarmed attack damage. If your attack exceeds the targetís CMD by five, the target falls prone.

Body Slam, Improved
Prerequisite: Body Slam, BAB +10
Benefit: When you make a body slam and knock the target prone, you may make a combat maneuver check to grapple the target as a free action.

Bravado Fighter
Prerequisite: Charisma 18, Skill Focus (perform)
Benefit: You may choose to add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to your attack rolls and CMB.

Bravado Fighter, Improved
Prerequisite: Bravado Fighter, Charisma 20, Skill Focus (Perform), BAB +8
Benefit: You may choose to add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to the damage of your unarmed attacks.

Clever Defense
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may substitute your CMD for your AC when attacked.

Constrained Fighting
Prerequisite: BAB +4
Benefit: While grappling a creature or being grappled, you donít take a penalty to attack rolls.
Normal: While grappling a creature or being grappled, you take a Ė2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple.

Crush
Prerequisite: Heavyweight
Benefit: When you successfully pin a creature you are grappling, deal damage to it equal to your unarmed attack damage.

Dazzling Pummel
Benefit: Add one-half your Charisma modifier to damage you deal to creatures you are grappling.

Heavyweight
Prerequisite: Constitution 18, Toughness
Benefit: You may choose to add your Constitution modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to the damage of your unarmed attacks.

Heavyweight Defense
Prerequisite: Heavyweight, BAB +6
Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to AC equal to your Constitution modifier

Heavyweight, Improved
Prerequisite: Heavyweight, Constitution 20, Toughness, BAB +8
Benefit: You may choose to add your Constitution modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to your attack rolls and CMB.

Sucker Punch
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may substitute your CMB for your normal attack bonus when making an unarmed attack.

Swift Grappler
Prerequisite: Dexterity 18
Benefit: You may choose to add your Dexterity modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to your CMB and CMD.

Wild Tackle
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus to your CMB when making Bull Rush attacks.


So yeah there are definitely things that need improving. My thoughts on those are:
1. ALL of the names for things. I am terrible at naming things.
2. More Luchador Maneuvers. There should be a much bigger list but I can't think of any more right now, and other people might have great ideas for them. (Think Rogue Talents/Ninja Tricks.)
3. Pummel. Not super happy with the wording, not super happy with the progression, and I feel like it could probably be done better in general.
4. General balance. I feel like this gets a lot of class features for a d10 HD class. Then again, Paladin and Barbarian get similar levels of stuff. Also not sure about its having two good saves or its getting 4+Int skill points per level.
5. Charisma dependency - Yes or no? Real life luchadors are showmen first and fighters second, so from that angle, using Charisma for stuff makes sense, but it feels a little weird for a non-magical class to be getting bonuses from Charisma.

Anyway, input? Ideas for Luchador Maneuvers? Things to change or cut?

Ilorin Lorati
2013-11-01, 07:38 AM
3. Pummel. Not super happy with the wording, not super happy with the progression, and I feel like it could probably be done better in general.


It would probably be better to just move Pummel over to the right, and have the AC bonus just be in the table at the start. In doing so, you'd be able to clean up the wording pretty handily by telling the player to reference the table.

Also, the +3 bonus lasts for 5 levels, when the description says it should last for 4.


4. General balance. I feel like this gets a lot of class features for a d10 HD class. Then again, Paladin and Barbarian get similar levels of stuff. Also not sure about its having two good saves or its getting 4+Int skill points per level.


Honestly, I'd probably say it's on the side of having too few. I know there's only so much you can do, but as he levels all that really changes outside of his talents is Rapid Grappler, which isn't even a unique class feature.

There's also no capstone, which goes against a number of PF centric design decisions; every class should have a capstone (There's only a few in PF that don't, and none of the ones since the CRB had that issue IIRC).


5. Charisma dependency - Yes or no? Real life luchadors are showmen first and fighters second, so from that angle, using Charisma for stuff makes sense, but it feels a little weird for a non-magical class to be getting bonuses from Charisma.


Charisma use is fine, but at the moment it doesn't really seem to have all that many bonuses. For example with Monk, Wisdom is already a really good stat because it provides will saves, and then Monk just makes it better. Charisma, without anything, is just a dump stat. If you want to support getting high Charisma, I'd give them something else on top of it as they level.

Bravado Fighter seems problematic to me, too; you can get the bonus to damage before you can get the bonus to attack, making you pretty much have to have Str until level 8 to have any significant portion of hit chance.

sournote103
2013-11-01, 09:20 AM
It would probably be better to just move Pummel over to the right, and have the AC bonus just be in the table at the start. In doing so, you'd be able to clean up the wording pretty handily by telling the player to reference the table.

Also, the +3 bonus lasts for 5 levels, when the description says it should last for 4.

Yeah that makes sense.
And I think the +3 bonus lasting for 5 levels was just me making a typo when copying the table into the forum's table format.


Honestly, I'd probably say it's on the side of having too few. I know there's only so much you can do, but as he levels all that really changes outside of his talents is Rapid Grappler, which isn't even a unique class feature.

Fair enough. Diversifying the class features some is probably good.


There's also no capstone, which goes against a number of PF centric design decisions; every class should have a capstone (There's only a few in PF that don't, and none of the ones since the CRB had that issue IIRC).

Yeah, I thought about that. I couldn't really think of one, but I can give it some more thought.


Charisma use is fine, but at the moment it doesn't really seem to have all that many bonuses. For example with Monk, Wisdom is already a really good stat because it provides will saves, and then Monk just makes it better. Charisma, without anything, is just a dump stat. If you want to support getting high Charisma, I'd give them something else on top of it as they level.

Makes sense. Probably a thing to include in additional class features.


Bravado Fighter seems problematic to me, too; you can get the bonus to damage before you can get the bonus to attack, making you pretty much have to have Str until level 8 to have any significant portion of hit chance.

Yeah I think I may have just accidentally switched the effects of that and Improved Bravado Fighter.
Fixing now!