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View Full Version : The Devotee (Sorta Favored Soul Remix)[WIP][PEACH]



UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 01:59 AM
Ok this idea I got from reading the Spirit Shaman and the Favored Soul classes.

The idea was so interesting to me I just had to write something up.

Tell me what you think and if you have input for the Capstone or a better balance please feel free to post.

More of the fluff will be added later

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Devotee's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As Cleric
Starting Gold: As Cleric

Class Skills
The Devotee's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha),
Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession
(Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at First Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Devotee
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Focus of Devotion, Sense of the Divine|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Bestowed Domain|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Smite 2/day, Deity's Weapon Focus|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|-|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Smite 3/day, Divine Audience|6|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5|Force of Personality|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5|Smite 4/day|6|6|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6|Bestowed Domain|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6|Smite 5/day|6|6|6|6|4|2|-|-|-|-

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+7|Deity's Weapon Specialization|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+7|
+7|Smite 6/day|6|6|6|6|6|4|2|-|-|-

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8|-|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8|Smite 7/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|2|-|-

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9|-|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+9|
+9|Smite 8/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|2|-

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10|Bestowed Domain|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10|Smite 9/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|2|

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11|-|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11|Smite 10/day|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12|[Need Help with Capstone Ability]|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the devotee.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Devotee is proficient with all simple weapons, and with a number of martial weapons (Deity's favored weapon and those related) as well as Light and Medium Armor and all shields (Except Tower)

Spells
A devotee casts divine spells (the same type
of spells available to clerics), which are drawn from the
cleric spell list. She can cast any spell she knows without
preparing it ahead of time the way a cleric must.
To cast a spell, a devotee must have a Charisma score
of 10 + the spellís level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11
for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a
saving throw against a favored soulís spell is 10 + the spellís
level + the favored soulís Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a devotee can cast only a certain
number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base
daily spell allotment is given on the table below.
In addition, she receives bonus spells for a high
Charisma.

Unlike a cleric, a devoteeís selection of spells is
limited. The devotee at level 5 gains access to the ability Divine Audience (See Divine Audience for details) which changes the way spells are known

Spells Known/Bestowed Per Day
{table=head]|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9

1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|3|3|1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|3|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|3|3|2|1|1|-|-|-|-|-

8th|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-|-

9th|3|3|3|2|1|1|-|-|-|-

10th|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-

11th|3|3|3|3|2|1|1|-|-|-

12th|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-|-

13th|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|1|-|-

14th|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-|-

15th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|1|-

16th|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|-

17th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|1|1

18th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

19th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2

20th|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2[/table]

Focus of Devotion (Ex)
The devotee chooses one deity, that cannot be more then one step from their alignment. She can not stray more then one step from this alignment in either the Lawful-Chaotic or Good-Evil axis. The exception to this is True Neutral in which the devotee must remain neutral in the Good-Evil axis.

Sense of the Divine (Sp)
The devotee can cast the spell-like abilities Detect (Alignment) and Detect Magic as at-will powers. The Alignment must be the opposite of her alignment, if neutral then she picks either good or evil.

Bestowed Domain (Ex)
The devotee can select one of their selected deities domains and gain the spells and powers from that domain. At 8th and 16th level she can select one more additional domains from their deities known domains, sub-domains count toward these domain choices.

Smite (Alignment)(Ex)
The devotee channels their borrowed divine might into an empowered strike from above. Two times per day she may attempt to smite the opposing alignment. Once this alignment is selected it cannot be changed and it must fall within the Good-Evil axis. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per devotee level.

At 5th level and every odd level there after she adds 1 more smite per day to a maximum of 10 at 19th level.

The devotee can only use their smite ability on the chosen alignment, if she tries to use smite on a being not of the chosen alignment the smite fails.

Deity's Weapon Focus (Ex)
This adds Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. She can only add this feat to a deity favored weapon.

Deity's Weapon Specialization (Ex)
This adds Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat. She can only add this feat to a deity favored weapon.

Divine Audience (Su)
At 5th level the devotee gains the ability to commune with their chosen deity. This deity bestows onto her the desired spells from the cleric spell list per day as shown in the above mentioned spells bestowed per level table. She must choose these spells known at the beginning of their day and cannot change them without resting and meditating as normal to converse with their god to reassign the spells known.

[Need help with Capstone Ability

Rizban
2013-11-05, 04:37 AM
So that you understand my review style, I'm doing a review of this on my first read through, so some of my thoughts might not be the most insightful had I given this a full, thorough reading prior to that.

This review is literally my thoughts on the post as I go through it, reading each section. If my questions or concerns are addressed later in the material, I will make note of that at the point they are addressed. This method of review helps to identify trouble spots and ambiguous areas that need a bit of editing that a comprehensive review might not catch. After I finish the entire post, I'll usually read through it a second time and post a comprehensive review in my final thoughts.

Also of note, I have done a lot of editing in my time, some of it professionally. As such I will point out spelling mistakes and flagrant grammatical errors. Please don't take this personally, as some are very inclined to do. I'm just trying to help you make your work the best it can be.

Finally, it takes time and effort to review your work. You may not agree with all of the comments I post as a reviewer, and that's fine. I ask only that you be polite about any disagreements you have and, if you're so inclined, check out my own homebrew in return (links in signature). Thank you.

Large sections of this were obviously copy/pasted from a PDF. You should really reformat them... It's really better to use your own words or use wording from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) so that you aren't infringing on copyrights.

You need to fix the following (problems/corrections in bold):
All of the following are class features of the CLASS NAME devotee.
The Devotee are is proficient with
CLASS FEATURE NAME (Ex, Su, Sp, Ps):
Line breaks and mid-word spaces that are artifacts left from copy/pasting fro a PDF.
Above/below references that don't match up (also PDF copy/paste issues).


Personal pet peeve in writing: Pick a gender and stick with it. Either he/him/his or she/her/hers. Don't use "they" and its derivatives when referring to an individual. Your writing will appear much more professional if you just pick a gender and use it. The only "benefit" to using an non-gendered plural is to appear more "politically correct," which quite frankly isn't going to help your writing. Just something to think about...


Spellcasting seems a bit odd. It gets spell level progression on par with a wizard and max spells per day of a sorcerer, though it gets fewer spells per day at lower levels than a sorc but more than a wiz. I'm not entirely sure how that's going to balance out, but I suppose it seems okay.

Split stat casting is bad. Charisma for bonus spells and highest spell level but Wisdom for save DCs. There's no good reason to punish a caster like that, unless you're giving them phenomenal other abilities. This was one of the biggest issues with the Favored Soul.


Focus of Devotion: Last sentence, first paragraph: Should read "exception" not "except".
Giving proficiency with all weapons of deities of the same alignment seems a bit odd. Just because two LG gods have the same alignment doesn't mean that they get along or that the followers of one would be proficient in the ways of others. You seem to be making this be focused on one deity or another, so generalizing in this manner just seems odd.

Perhaps you should instead have the devotee pick a pantheon and become proficient with all martial weapons belonging to that pantheon?


Sense of the Divine is worded a bit oddly. I also don't see a reason to not give it at will as soon as it is gained. What's the purpose in limiting it to uses per day at 1st level if you're just going to make it at will at 5th level?


Bestowed Domain is nifty, and definitely something I felt the Favored Soul sorely lacked. The wording on this ability needs work though. As written, I could get 2 more domains at 8th and another 2 more at 16th for a total of 5 domains. I'm not sure that was your intention.


Smite is a bit much. This class not only has full spellcasting progression, but it can smite far more often than the paladin and has a wider potential for targets. I'd reduce the uses on this significantly.


Deities Weapon Focus/Specialization seems appropriate if you're doing a combat focused class.


Divine Audience I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this ability. Just giving them full access to the cleric spell list and change their spells known each day?


Magical Armor Training Okay...



Final Thoughts: This class has full spontaneous spellcasting, as many spells as a sorcerer, 3/4 BAB, ALL good saves, full access to the cleric spell list, can change spells known each day, proficient with lots of weapons, smites better than a paladin, and wears medium or heavy armor.

This class just has too much going on and too many perks. It outpaces pretty much every other published class out there. Barring divine metamagic cheese due to a lack of turn undead, this class is strictly better in melee combat than a cleric or any non full caster in the PHB and most other official books. I can't see this as being a balanced class.

If you want to make it so combat focused, take a look at the Duskblade from Player's Handbook 2. A divine version of that class is probably more like what you're trying to achieve with this without making it so overpowered.

UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 06:37 AM
EDIT: I apologize for being rude.

The spellcasting for Wisdom was an error, I did copy that off the Favored Soul published information and missed it, not sure about the spaces to be honest.

I did change the pronoun use but that really should not have been the huge part of you post when reviewing a class.

I removed the armor training.
The weapon abilities are to allow a more melee focused version should the player want it.

It can use smite on only good or evil they have to decide and I will add the smite information later from the paladin to show its not more open just given more often, a complaint I have seen a lot in the paladin.

The spellcasting is not based on Sorcerer or Wizard, but rather taken directly from the Spirit Shaman class from Complete Divine. It is also where I got the idea for the casting style at.

I made them at wills and the reason I have it left out to level 5 is to prevent a 1 level dip. To get the effect of this class you need to dedicate 5 levels to it. Makes it more balanced so it cannot be used for 1 level dip abuse.

Also the template is off this site not a PDF and is used for convenience but nothing but the spell section and the skills are copied over for word.

Morph Bark
2013-11-05, 06:46 AM
Yeaaahhhh, while I would've happily peached this, I'll refrain from peaching the class and instead do so with regards to your second post: insulting people who, as you requested, comment and critique honestly, will quickly drive people off and leave you without the peaches you desire.

UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 06:51 AM
I do admit I was rather harsh about it and will edit to apologize by my biggest annoyance is when instead of looking at the class they are nitpicking the grammar that was done on the fly based off an idea they had and wanted to get down quickly.

Rizban
2013-11-05, 09:21 AM
I did change the pronoun use but that really should not have been the huge part of you post when reviewing a class.
I do admit I was rather harsh about it and will edit to apologize by my biggest annoyance is when instead of looking at the class they are nitpicking the grammar that was done on the fly based off an idea they had and wanted to get down quickly.It wasn't a "huge" part. However, I refer back to my own disclaimer:
Also of note, I have done a lot of editing in my time, some of it professionally. As such I will point out spelling mistakes and flagrant grammatical errors. Please don't take this personally, as some are very inclined to do. I'm just trying to help you make your work the best it can be.When I do a review, I review the full entry as presented. If you look at my post, I actually covered everything you posted. I don't intentionally leave things out, unless it's something incredibly trivial. Part of editing to make something the best it can be is grammar, spelling, and (in the case of copy editing) presentation. So... *shrug*


I removed the armor training.
The weapon abilities are to allow a more melee focused version should the player want it.And, as I said, I don't think that the weapon aspect of it is necessarily too much or a bad ability. I only pointed out that as a champion of a specific deity, that it would likely be better, flavor wise, to grant the weapons of that deity's allies. This isn't fluffed to be a champion of an alignment, so granting weapon proficiency by alignment seemed off.


It can use smite on only good or evil they have to decide and I will add the smite information later from the paladin to show its not more open just given more often, a complaint I have seen a lot in the paladin.Still, it's either/or. That was my main point. There are other classes that have the choice, but I've not seen any with that many uses/day. On top of everything else the class gets, that just seemed excessive.


The spellcasting is not based on Sorcerer or Wizard, but rather taken directly from the Spirit Shaman class from Complete Divine. It is also where I got the idea for the casting style at.Ah, Spirit Shaman. The one spell progression table I don't have memorized. Figures. :smalltongue: As I said at the time, I didn't have an issue with it. It was simply nonstandard, and I try to comment on everything you post.


I made them at wills and the reason I have it left out to level 5 is to prevent a 1 level dip. To get the effect of this class you need to dedicate 5 levels to it. Makes it more balanced so it cannot be used for 1 level dip abuse.At the moment, I can't think of a build that would really benefit from a 1 level dip to get detect evil that can't just use it as a spell. If they really need it for a PrC requirement or something, dipping prestige paladin on a divine caster is likely for the best. With nothing else that would stack with anything meaningful from other classes, I can't see that tipping the balance in favor of dipping this class.


Also the template is off this site not a PDF and is used for convenience but nothing but the spell section and the skills are copied over for word.I wasn't talking about the template. I was talking about the large paragraphs of text, most egregiously the "spells" section. I see that you've fixed some of the issues with it since I first mentioned it though.

UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 02:59 PM
Yes but only the spells section was copied from the Favored Soul stuff. I had issues with the other spellbane class i tried to work it off my own wording and got told by at least two people that I needed to basically copy and paste it.

As for smite it is not that powerful of an ability and given the limited spells bestowed might offset it on an offensive nature.

But thanks for the input I might reduce the smite uses but really 10/day is not gamebreaking considering you could use it multiple times on one foe and then not have it for the rest of the day. So if you blow it on a minion you lose it for later.

Rizban
2013-11-05, 05:35 PM
As for smite it is not that powerful of an ability and given the limited spells bestowed might offset it on an offensive nature.

But thanks for the input I might reduce the smite uses but really 10/day is not gamebreaking considering you could use it multiple times on one foe and then not have it for the rest of the day. So if you blow it on a minion you lose it for later.You could technically say the same thing about 9th-level spell slots. Smite isn't in and of itself game breaking, no; however, it's just a bit much on an already heavily loaded class.

UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 05:39 PM
It is a bit much if it was heavily focused on and you skillfully buffed it to the point of making it a mega melee build. But if its not focused on it rarely seems like it would break much.

Zaydos
2013-11-05, 05:48 PM
Why the emphasis on Good v Evil over Law v Chaos?

I mean why would a champion of Olidammra care more about fighting Good (or Evil) over fighting Law?

Does Bestowed Domain give you the domain spells as spells known in addition to those you'd normally retrieve or add them to your spell list so you can choose to retrieve them? If the former you need to lower the spells retrieved (cleric is already a better spell list than druid and now you're over doubling spells known).

What does Divine Audience even do? It seems like part of their base casting (the ability to change spells known each day) which they need to get at 1st level so it's odd.

And perhaps most importantly why did you keep the loss of Heavy Armor and lack of Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill?

UmpteenthDoctor
2013-11-05, 07:16 PM
It was copied over so yeah I forgot.

Also the reason for the level 5 wait till you get divine audience. Till then you treat the spells known as normal for a class like sorcerer.

The loss of heavy armor was remedied but the first poster seemed to have an issue with it.