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Garagos
2013-11-07, 12:02 PM
Hi guys,

Just looking for some feedback from the experts on these forums before I present this to my regular gaming group. I didn't wanna change it too much from the 3.5 class fearing that my DM wouldn't even consider looking at it if I did.

Monk

Hit Die: d8

Alignment: Any lawful

Skills: Same as in PHB/SRD

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Flurry BAB|Unarmed Damage|AC Bonus|Speed Bonus

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike|-1/-1|1d6|+0|+0 ft.

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|+0/+0|1d6|+0|+0 ft.

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Still Mind*, Leap of the Clouds|+1/+1|1d6|+0|+10 ft.

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Ki Strike (magic), slow fall 20 ft.|+2/+2|1d8|+0|+10 ft.

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Bonus Feat, Purity of Body**|+4/+4|1d8|+1|+10 ft.

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat, slow fall 30 ft.|+5/+5/+0|1d8|+1|20 ft.

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Wholeness of Body*|+6/+6/+1|1d8|+1|+20 ft.

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|slow fall 40 ft.|+7/+7/+2|1d10|+1|+20 ft.

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|-|+9/+9/+4|1d10|+1|+30 ft.

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Ki Strike (lawful), slow fall 50 ft.|+10/+10/+5|1d10|+2|+30 ft.

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Diamond Body**, greater flurry|+11/+11/+11/+6/+1|1d10|+2|+30 ft.

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Abundant Step, slow fall 60 ft.|+12/+12/+12/+7/+2|2d6|+2|+40 ft.

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Diamond Soul|+13/+13/+13/+8/+3|2d6|+2|+40 ft.

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|slow fall 70 ft.|+14/+14/+14/+9/+4|2d6|+2|+40 ft.

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Quivering Palm|+15/+15/+15/+10/+5|2d6|+3|+50 ft.

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Ki Strike (metalline), slow fall 80 ft.|+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1|2d8|+3|+50 ft.

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon|+17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2|2d8|+3|+50 ft.

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|slow fall 90 ft.|+18/+18/+18/+13/+8/+3|2d8|+3|+60 ft.

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Empty body|+19/+19/+19/+14/+9/+4|2d8|+3|+60 ft.

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Perfect Self, slow fall any distance|+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5|2d10|+4|+60 ft.

[/table]

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the monk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.
Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

Base Saves
At first level, a monk chooses two good saves and one poor save. This is usually a reflection of what his monastic training specialized in and where their training was lax. Depending on which Save is selected as the poor save, certain special abilities are no longer available to the monk when attaining certain levels. In the example above, I used Reflex as the poor save, which removed evasion and improved evasion. If Fortitude is chosen as the poor save, the abilities marked with ** are removed and evasion/improved evasion would be restored. Will abilities are marked with a single *.

AC Bonus (Ex)
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Flurry of Blows (Ex)
When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus × 1˝ or ×˝) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.
In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

Greater Flurry
When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus.

Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.

Bonus Feat
At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 4th level a monk gains Versatile Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Fast Movement (Ex)
At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Still Mind (Ex)
A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.

Leap of the Clouds (Ex)
A monk of 3rd level or higher no longer doubles the Jump DC if she doesn't get a 20 ft. running start.

Ki Strike (Su)
At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as metalline weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness. Each round, a monk can select what type of substance her unarmed attacks are treated as. Once this choice is made, unarmed strikes count as this material until another swift action is used to change it.

Slow Fall (Ex)
At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm’s reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, she takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The monk’s ability to slow her fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with her monk level until at 20th level she can use a nearby wall to slow her descent and fall any distance without harm.

Purity of Body (Ex)
At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases.

Wholeness of Body (Su)
At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal her own wounds. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current monk level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.

Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 9th level, a monk’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helplessmonk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Diamond Body (Su)
At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

Abundant Step (Su)
At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down).

Diamond Soul (Ex)
At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk’s spell resistance.

Quivering Palm (Su)
Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ˝ the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time.

Timeless Body (Ex)
Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex)
A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.

Empty Body (Su)
At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her monk level.

Perfect Self
At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.

Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.
Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

Rizban
2013-11-07, 12:59 PM
Increasing to full BAB isn't worth the penalty to saves and loss of class features. There are a few dozen monk fixes on this site, some of them actually pretty good. I'd suggest looking at a couple of those and finding one that's been thoroughly reviewed that you like.

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 01:06 PM
Jiriku's monk fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122), in particular, seems relevant here. It's excellent, I've had people use it in campaigns, and it friggin works.

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 01:16 PM
BTW, slow fall is one of the WORST mechanics ever written. Some races, like Dragonborn with Wings, Aarakokra, or Hadozee (Stormwrack) negate this as a racial feature. Feather fall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/featherFall.htm), or Ring of Feather fall (2000 GP item, dmg 232), or heck, a single-use, 250 GP clasp (Racewing Emblem, Rotw 173) grants feather fall whereas a monk has to wait 20 levels.

Just because Wizards publishes a class & its features doesn't mean it's good.

Garagos
2013-11-07, 02:29 PM
Thanks for the link to Jiriku's monk. I like some of his ideas, but some of the abilities seem too strong. And still no full BAB on that one, which is one of the monk's biggest issues imo.

So is the general consensus that full BAB should be a given without weakening any other class features?

Amnoriath
2013-11-07, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the link to Jiriku's monk. I like some of his ideas, but some of the abilities seem too strong. And still no full BAB on that one, which is one of the monk's biggest issues imo.

So is the general consensus that full BAB should be a given without weakening any other class features?

For the most part, moderate BAB would be warranted if you make the monk SAD like an arcane caster and throw in some mystical spell-like abilities("chi monk"). Otherwise as a base skirmisher and multi-attacker up the BAB.

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the link to Jiriku's monk. I like some of his ideas, but some of the abilities seem too strong. And still no full BAB on that one, which is one of the monk's biggest issues imo.

So is the general consensus that full BAB should be a given without weakening any other class features?

I assure you that Jiriku's monk fix is not too strong. I've seen it in action, and Wizards / Clerics / Druids still blow it out of the water. Instead of being a horrible class, its pushing tier 3.

non-full BAB is hardly an issue. However, if you dislike it that much, Arguskos has an incredibly well-done fix with full BAB (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192781) that I've also seen in action, and I have yet to see a DM so afraid of competence-inducing class features as to give it the banhammer. It is incredibly flavorful, open-ended and worthwhile for all 20 levels. Depending on the Althletic/Acrobatic superiorities, it will fall ~ tier 3 or tier 4. just FYI, Superior Unarmed Strike is from ToB 33, but just like Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) has nothing to do with Psionics, the former has nothing to do with Weeabo Fightin' Magic.

Edit: if you analyze it, Arguskos' Monk fix has very much to do with the Muay Thai style of fighting :smallcool:

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 03:05 PM
Thanks for the link to Jiriku's monk. I like some of his ideas, but some of the abilities seem too strong. And still no full BAB on that one, which is one of the monk's biggest issues imo.

So is the general consensus that full BAB should be a given without weakening any other class features?

Just for the record, the reason why Jiriku's monk doesn't have trouble with BAB is because of a LEVEL ONE feature: "Versatile Attack (Ex): A monk learns advanced martial arts that make her a more flexible attacker. While she is unarmored, she adds the better of her Strength or Dexterity bonuses to attack and damage with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons, and to all contested combat maneuvers (such as bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, sunder, or trip checks). A monk with Versatile Attack qualifies for prerequisites as if she had the Weapon Finesse feat."

nonsi
2013-11-07, 03:38 PM
A solid Monk fix doesn't require full BAB to shine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14444342).

Garagos
2013-11-07, 04:08 PM
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I ended up using Jiriku's monk as a guideline and just changed it a bit to something I think my DM will at least consider.

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 04:12 PM
It's strange that a million and a half people can write decent excellent monk fixes, and they are never good enough for some DMs :confused: :smallannoyed: It's like we want to put in lots and lots of work even when others have done work for us :smalltongue:

Garagos
2013-11-07, 04:17 PM
It's strange that a million and a half people can write decent excellent monk fixes, and they are never good enough for some DMs :confused: :smallannoyed: It's like we want to put in lots and lots of work even when others have done work for us :smalltongue:

I guarentee you that my DM will see my email, and before even opening the Word doc, will think to himself "monk's don't even need fixing". I'm probably going to find a thread on here that makes the best argument for what's wrong with them and include that in the email.

~Corvus~
2013-11-07, 04:35 PM
I guarentee you that my DM will see my email, and before even opening the Word doc, will think to himself "monk's don't even need fixing". I'm probably going to find a thread on here that makes the best argument for what's wrong with them and include that in the email.

Well, there's two trains of thought here: First, if one is going by numerical class terms, and if the DM is able / willing to compensate for power discrepancies, then sure, the Monk isn't so bad.

The other though is that, well, Monks are SO BAD (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5293") there are few classes worse than them: tier 5 at best is pretty darned awful (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4869.0). The fact that an Adept--an NPC class--is better than the monk is just humiliating from a balance standpoint.

Best of luck.