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iTookUrNick
2013-11-15, 08:23 AM
Big (Stupid) Fighter

Modified Class: Fighter.

Treantmonk's "guide to being god" popularized the idea of the bruiser as an instrument of destruction in the hands of the more refined wizard. While the guide states that neither being a fighter nor being big are actual requirements, this archetype make things quite more literal.

BIGGER FIGHTER (Su): by design, a BSF needs to be both BIG and willing to interpose himself between the BBEG and god. This ability helps him achieve that with his own resources. As a standard action that does not provokes attacks of opportunity, the fighter can increase his size by one step to the next larger one, as if under the effect of an enlarge person (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person) spell. Every round after the first, he must sustain this ability with a swift action, or the effect ends at the beginning of his following turn. He can return to his normal size as a free action at any time. He can remain in this state for a number of minutes equal to his level; these minutes may not be consecutive, but must be used in 1-minute intervals. Abilities gained along with the size increase improve with level.


At 3rd level, it provides a +2 size bonus to Strength, and a -2 penalty to Intelligence (minimum 1).

At 7th level, it provides a +4 size bonus to Strength, a -4 penalty to Intelligence (minimum 1), and a +2 natural armor increase.

At 11th level, it provides a +6 size bonus to Strength, a -6 penalty to Intelligence (minimum 1), a +2 size bonus to Constitution, a +3 natural armor increase and DR 5/.

At 15th level, it provides a +8 size bonus to Strength, a -8 penalty to Intelligence (minimum 1), a +4 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor increase and DR 10/.

At 19th level, it provides a +10 size bonus to Strength, a -10 penalty to Intelligence (minimum 1), a +6 size bonus to Constitution, a +5 natural armor increase and 15/.

At 20th level, while under the effect of this ability, the fighter becomes a mindless creature, its intelligence score becomes , and it gains immunity to all mind-affecting effects, charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects. He can only use skills and feats that do not require concentration or knowledge. He is now the perfect companion to god.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1, 2, 3, 4, Weapon Training 1, 2, 3, 4, Armor Mastery and Weapon Mastery.

BIGGER FIGHTER (Su): regardless of Int score, a BSF needs to be BIG. This ability helps him achieve that with his own resources. As a standard action that does not provokes attacks of opportunity, the fighter can increase his size by one step to the next larger one, as if under the effect of an enlarge person (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person) spell. He can return to his normal size as a free action at any time. He can remain in this state for a number of minutes equal to his level; these minutes may or may not be consecutive, but must be used in 1-minute intervals. Abilities gained along with the size increase improve with level.


At 3rd level, it provides a +2 size bonus to Strength and a -2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum 1).

At 7th level, it provides a +4 size bonus to Strength, a -2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum 1), and a +2 natural armor increase.

At 11th level, it provides a +6 size bonus to Strength, a -2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum 1), a +2 size bonus to Constitution, a +3 natural armor increase and DR 5/.

At 15th level, it provides a +6 size bonus to Strength, a -2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum 1), a +4 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor increase and DR 10/.

At 19th level, the damage reduction it provides becomes 15/.

This ability replaces Armor Training 1, 2, 3 and 4 as well as Armor Mastery.
Unfortunately for everyone involved, we must compare this ability with what is already available in the official sources: in this case the rage ability of the barbarian. While I do not believe it would matter much, those seeking a toned down version of this ability can use this version instead:

BIGGER FIGHTER (Su): regardless of Int score, a BSF needs to be BIG. This ability helps him achieve that with his own resources. At 1st level, once per day as a standard action, the fighter can increase his size by one step, as if under the effect of an enlarge person (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person) spell, for a number of minutes equal to his class level. At 7th level, this ability can be activated as a move action; at 13th level, it can be activated as a swift action; at 19th level, it can be activated as an immediate action. Every round after the first, he must sustain this ability with a swift action, or the effect ends at the beginning of his following turn. He can return to his normal size as a free action at any time. He can use this ability once at 2nd level, and one additional time for every four level thereafter (up to five times a day at 18th level).

This ability replaces Armor Training 1, 2, 3, 4 and bravery.
1st-Tier Mythic Path Ability

Mythic Size (Su): You can expend one use of mythic power in conjunction with your a use of your Bigger Fighter ability to increase your size by up to two size categories. If you do so, you also gain an extra +2 size bonus to Strength and take an extra 2 size penalty to the score being penalized.

Amechra
2013-11-15, 06:54 PM
You know, to get the full joke, all you need to do is move the penalty from Dexterity to Intelligence.

toapat
2013-11-15, 07:28 PM
You know, to get the full joke, all you need to do is move the penalty from Dexterity to Intelligence.

it should also at level 20 remove the fighter's Int and Wisdom scores, and make them mindless

Amechra
2013-11-15, 08:17 PM
If you remove the Wisdom score, they aren't creatures anymore.

Mindless just gets rid of Intelligence.

And, to be quite honest, being mindless is actually pretty good. Sure, you're dumb as a post, but as long as you aren't one of the types that are normally mindless, you just bought yourself immunity to so damn much.

toapat
2013-11-15, 08:23 PM
If you remove the Wisdom score, they aren't creatures anymore.[/I]

Even better, then he is truly a walking brick

iTookUrNick
2013-11-16, 07:23 AM
And that, ladies and gentleman, is why the playgrounders' input is valued so highly within the homebrewing community. :smallbiggrin:

Your suggestion has been implemented. A net win for magic user anywhere. :smallwink:

Tanuki Tales
2013-11-16, 08:22 AM
Just wanted to chime in that the Damage Reduction this archetype gets is piddling. Though to be honest, even the Invulnerable Berserker archetype doesn't get enough DR to matter.

That's a mechanic that they never really did the math for in 3.X/PF. At least in earlier editions your weapon had to be a certain level of magic or have certain properties to hurt certain creatures and that's honestly a better defensive mechanic now.

I've been personally toying around with the idea that DR subtracts its normal value and then cuts the left over damage in half, but I haven't gotten to acid test it yet.

iTookUrNick
2013-11-16, 12:30 PM
Agreed. As you say, the underlying mechanic for DR is fundamentally flawed, so any archetype building up from that cannot help but carry that flaw onward.

Here I was simply trying to work within the existing ruleset. The existence of an ability granting DR 5/ at 19th level in the core class does make things difficult to move around (although I must admit an increase could be granted, due to the limited nature of the ability). A complete overhaul was probably overkill for what accounted to a half-joke, basically.

On the subject of complete rule overhaul, I believe that DR would work well with the design philosophy stated (but not quite implemented) in DnD Next: no arms races across levels for no apparent reason. If I were to fix things, I would start from there.

Deviston
2013-11-17, 07:48 AM
So the fighter loses Armor Training and Armor Mastery, but gets DR and Nat. Armor? Oh and reach +8 Str +4 Con and even more later on???

Well, I think we can agree this isn't balanced first off. Second, I love the idea don't get me wrong! But I'm not sure if this is meant to be seriously PEACHed or not. So I will.

Make the Int penalty = Str bonus at all times. When she becomes mindless bump her Str score to +10. Next, the class features lost are negligible. Lose some fighter feats as well, at least 4. Obviously the fighter feat at level 1, probably 6, 12, and 18.

And the lesser version should still be the Armor Training and Armor Mastery. But maybe just 2 feats lost. 1 and 12 perhaps.

Also, I don't quite understand the 19th level entry about putting in skill points. Can't the player just wait until the minute of Mindless Enlarge is over before leveling? Then she could put ranks into whatever skill she wants because she is no longer mindless (enlarge ended). The 19th level entry is still an entry under the BSF enlarge power (like the previous entries) as far as anyone can tell. So if you meant for her to be mindless ALL the time, that should be in a different entry.

I really liked that you stipulated the enlarge effect can't be used in consecutively. That was really smart actually. This "better than barbarian" powerhouse has to blow a standard every minute to reactivate it instead of go go go. Like I said, good call (no sarcasm there).

Edit: My saying you lose the first fighter feat was under the assumption you get this starting at 1st level. Which, now that I look at it it seems you don't get it until 3rd. So I amend my feat loss to 2nd, and the rest are the same.

iTookUrNick
2013-11-17, 09:21 AM
Thanks for your post! I believe this archetype is not going to be used in any but the most ironic games, and then probably only as a one-shot. Even so, I'd like it to be sound and usable for the goal it was written for.

Well, I think we can agree this isn't balanced first off.
I thin we can agree as well: what you gain is only tenuously related to what you lose. I modeled the ability out of Enlarge Person/ Monstrous Physique/Righteous Might/Giant Form line of spells. It was meant to give the fighter more "nova" power, a net increase in usefulness if you will.

All things considered, I'd rather have it give up weapon training and weapon mastery, trading a given bonus for a different given bonus, like most other archetypes available, rather than limiting the player choices of feats. Besides, the Str bonus and the weapon training bonuses are quite similar, one limited by type and the other by time. If you still feel this warrants losing bonus feats, let me know.

Regarding the alternate, more "balanced" version, I wish to point out that the ability replicates the effects of a 1st level spell... let the kids have their fun once in a while... :smallsmile: Anyway, I've thrown in Armor Training for good measure.

Make the Int penalty = Str bonus at all times. When she becomes mindless bump her Str score to +10.
Good call. Done (more or less)!

Also, I don't quite understand the 19th level entry about putting in skill points. Can't the player just wait until the minute of Mindless Enlarge is over before leveling? Then she could put ranks into whatever skill she wants because she is no longer mindless (enlarge ended). The 19th level entry is still an entry under the BSF enlarge power (like the previous entries) as far as anyone can tell. So if you meant for her to be mindless ALL the time, that should be in a different entry.
Changed that bit in a hurry, I got a little confused around and it came out wrong. Reworded to mean that it should not be doing anything more complicated than jumping around and beating people with its stick.

I really liked that you stipulated the enlarge effect can't be used in consecutively. That was really smart actually. This "better than barbarian" powerhouse has to blow a standard every minute to reactivate it instead of go go go. Like I said, good call (no sarcasm there).
I was actually thinking of putting up a "sustaining" mechanism of sorts. Done.