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Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 11:54 AM
Im trying to homebrew a usable tree, it would qualify as a large improvised weapon, but im unsure of stats so it would be legal and balanced, according to the DM.

I'm playing a large character with 20+ Str.

Im trying to find damage, reach, weight, critical chance and multiplier. Please Help? Thanks in advance.

Seerow
2013-11-21, 11:56 AM
Call it a greatclub and done.

SiuiS
2013-11-21, 12:15 PM
Alternately, an improvised weapon dealing damage based on it's size? I don't remember where those rules are though.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 01:06 PM
Alternately, an improvised weapon dealing damage based on it's size? I don't remember where those rules are though.

This is more what I'm looking for.


Call it a greatclub and done.

I am unsure which size greatclub to base it off of.

Laughing Dog
2013-11-21, 01:07 PM
How big a tree are we talking about?

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 01:10 PM
How big a tree are we talking about?

I'm looking for 10ft. reach, my character can carry a 450lb 1350lb. log as a light load for a large character with 29 Str.

Laughing Dog
2013-11-21, 01:21 PM
I'm looking for 10ft. reach, my character can carry a 450lb 1350lb. log as a light load for a large character with 29 Str.

What I meant was how big was the tree your character was going to uproot. As in is it a sapling, a fullgrown Oak, a giant Redwood. But what you're asking for would be considered an Improvised Large greatclub. This is because a reach weapon for a Large character would have a reach of 15-20 feet and Large Creatures (usually) have a natural reach of 10 ft.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 01:23 PM
What I meant was how big was the tree your character was going to uproot. As in is it a sapling, a fullgrown Oak, a giant Redwood. But what you're asking for would be considered an Improvised Large greatclub. This is because a reach weapon for a Large character would have a reach of 15-20 feet and Large Creatures (usually) have a natural reach of 10 ft.

I dont think your understanding my question, im asking how big a tree i can uproot, and how much damage it would do. Im looking for max damage and reach.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 01:28 PM
DM Here:

OK, So, a large creature with 30 str can weild 1800 lbs as a light load, how big of a tree can be picked up and how much damage can the tree do?:smallbiggrin:

Laughing Dog
2013-11-21, 01:29 PM
Do you know how much trees generally weigh or know someone who does know that answer? If you can give me what type and size tree I can try to convert that for you. Otherwise I'm stabbing blindly in the dark.

Red Bear
2013-11-21, 01:57 PM
a tree 20 feet tall with a 1 foot radius would weight approximately 1800 pounds.

This tree can be considered a huge greatclub, so 3d8 damage, crit x2, reach (20 ft for a large creature) and -4 to hit for beign a weapon of a bigger size category.

I have no idea about how much force is required to uproot a tree of this kind.

A smaller tree could be considered a large great club, so 2d8 damage, crit x2, reach 10ft for a large creature.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:07 PM
Do you know how much trees generally weigh or know someone who does know that answer? If you can give me what type and size tree I can try to convert that for you. Otherwise I'm stabbing blindly in the dark.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=log_weight

Species: Redwood, Old growth Small End Diameter: 1.5ft Large End Diameter: 1.5ft Length: 20ft Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight: 1472 lbs.

I plan on using darkwood though.


SRD:Darkwood

This rare magic wood is as hard as normal wood but very light. Any wooden or mostly wooden item (such as a bow, an arrow, or a spear) made from darkwood is considered a masterwork item and weighs only half as much as a normal wooden item of that type. Items not normally made of wood or only partially of wood (such as a battleaxe or a mace) either cannot be made from darkwood or do not gain any special benefit from being made of darkwood. The armor check penalty of a darkwood shield is lessened by 2 compared to an ordinary shield of its type. To determine the price of a darkwood item, use the original weight but add 10 gp per pound to the price of a masterwork version of that item.
Darkwood has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 5.
COST=Masterwork Item Cost + (10 ◊ original lb. weight) gp

Red Bear
2013-11-21, 02:14 PM
I plan on using darkwood though.

A bludgeoning weapon is not better if it is lighter...

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-21, 02:17 PM
A bludgeoning weapon is not better if it is lighter...

This is very true. Wooden bludgeoning weapons are almost always dense, hard wood. Otherwise all you're doing is increasing the surface-area to weight ratio, which (IRL) reduces it's damaging potential.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:17 PM
A bludgeoning weapon is not better if it is lighter...

Bigger is better, im looking for Size as well.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:19 PM
This is very true. Wooden bludgeoning weapons are almost always dense, hard wood. Otherwise all you're doing is increasing the surface-area to weight ratio, which (IRL) reduces it's damaging potential.

Good thing its not IRL. I'm looking to wield a tree. Does lots o' damage. can you answer my question or not?

Laughing Dog
2013-11-21, 02:20 PM
Still use Red Bear's stats, but make it 700 lbs for being darkwood, the reach 15ft-20 ft and change the damage to 3d8-3 for it not really being meant for the purpose of being used to brain someone. (If the weight had been the full 1400-odd pounds I'd say make the damage 3d8+3 instead because that is a lot of force.)

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:28 PM
Still use Red Bear's stats, but make it 700 lbs for being darkwood, the reach 15ft-20 ft and change the damage to 3d8-3 for it not really being meant for the purpose of being used to brain someone. (If the weight had been the full 1400-odd pounds I'd say make the damage 3d8+3 instead because that is a lot of force.)

Only Huge, really? i totally understand the negatives, but that's smaller than we were expecting.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-21, 02:38 PM
Only Huge, really? i totally understand the negatives, but that's smaller than we were expecting.

If you could wield it, I'd call it probably a Gargantuan Greatclub. Of course, Large characters can't wield weapons that large without penalty, so you'd be taking the -4 to hit.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:41 PM
If you could wield it, I'd call it probably a Gargantuan Greatclub. Of course, Large characters can't wield weapons that large without penalty, so you'd be taking the -4 to hit.

That's more like it! My Strength of 30 gives me +10. So this is now perfect. Im also reverting to normal wood, I'm not a fan of negative damage. :D

Laughing Dog
2013-11-21, 02:50 PM
If you could wield it, I'd call it probably a Gargantuan Greatclub. Of course, Large characters can't wield weapons that large without penalty, so you'd be taking the -4 to hit.

Yeah, after I thought it over a bit more I was also thinking it would be a Gargantuan Greatclub. Or possibly an improvised Huge Quarterstaff.

Also, the penalty to hit for a Large Character wielding a Gargantuan Great club is -12 (-8 for two size categories of difference and -4 for non-proficiency(You are automatically considered to be non-proficient with improvised weapons)).

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 02:55 PM
Yeah, after I thought it over a bit more I was also thinking it would be a Gargantuan Greatclub. Or possibly an improvised Huge Quarterstaff.

Also, the penalty to hit for a Large Character wielding a Gargantuan Great club is -12 (-8 for two size categories of difference and -4 for non-proficiency(You are automatically considered to be non-proficient with improvised weapons)).

Only -8; Taking Improvised weapons Feat, but thank you.
Will Grab Monkey Grip Later to reduce it further to -4.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 03:11 PM
Gargantuan Tree (-4/ size category larger than wielder, -4 Non-proficiency)
Improvised Two-handed Melee
Weight/Price: 1400 lbs. Firewood/ 70 cp
Critical: x2
Damage: 4d8+4
Reach: +20ft
Hardness: 5
Hit Points: 180
Type: Bludgeoning
This wooden beam gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Strength checks made to break open a door and it allows a second person to help you without having to roll, increasing your bonus by 2.

How does this look to everyone here before i show the DM? (Fire Wood is 1cp / 20lbs.)

Red Bear
2013-11-21, 03:39 PM
Gargantuan Tree (-4/ size category larger than wielder, -4 Non-proficiency)
Improvised Two-handed Melee
Weight/Price: 1400 lbs. Firewood/ 70 cp
Critical: x2
Damage: 4d8+4
Reach: +20ft
Hardness: 5
Hit Points: 180
Type: Bludgeoning
This wooden beam gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Strength checks made to break open a door and it allows a second person to help you without having to roll, increasing your bonus by 2.

How does this look to everyone here before i show the DM? (Fire Wood is 1cp / 20lbs.)

Why the +4 damage?
Firewood is very different from a single big tree, but still I think the price should be low since it's just a tree so 70 cp is a good price.
I'm not an expert about hardness and hitpoint, but the rest looks very good, almost RAW.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 03:47 PM
Why the +4 damage?
Firewood is very different from a single big tree, but still I think the price should be low since it's just a tree so 70 cp is a good price.
I'm not an expert about hardness and hitpoint, but the rest looks very good, almost RAW.

Someone posted about it being +1/ Die, I'm unsure, but i can remove it. Wood has Hardness 5 and 10 HP/ inch of thickness. And the flavor/background for the firewood, would be to go buy just one solid 30ft log from a group of axe men, or uproot it myself so it would be free.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 03:48 PM
Still use Red Bear's stats, but make it 700 lbs for being darkwood, the reach 15ft-20 ft and change the damage to 3d8-3 for it not really being meant for the purpose of being used to brain someone. (If the weight had been the full 1400-odd pounds I'd say make the damage 3d8+3 instead because that is a lot of force.) This is why I added +4.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-21, 03:53 PM
This is why I added +4.

I'd remove the +4. No existing non-special material weapon adds damage in that fashion.

Ravenv13
2013-11-21, 03:54 PM
I'd remove the +4. No existing non-special material weapon adds damage in that fashion. Completely agreeable.

Gargantuan Tree (-4/ size category larger than wielder, -4 Non-proficiency)
Improvised Two-handed Melee
Weight/Price: 1400 lbs. Firewood/ 70 cp
Critical: x2
Damage: 4d8
Reach: +20ft
Hardness: 5
Hit Points: 180
Type: Bludgeoning
This wooden beam gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Strength checks made to break open a door and it allows a second person to help you without having to roll, increasing your bonus by 2.

Better?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-21, 04:08 PM
Seems good to me.

Red Bear
2013-11-21, 05:51 PM
Completely agreeable.

Gargantuan Tree (-4/ size category larger than wielder, -4 Non-proficiency)
Improvised Two-handed Melee
Weight/Price: 1400 lbs. Firewood/ 70 cp
Critical: x2
Damage: 4d8
Reach: +20ft
Hardness: 5
Hit Points: 180
Type: Bludgeoning
This wooden beam gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Strength checks made to break open a door and it allows a second person to help you without having to roll, increasing your bonus by 2.

Better?

I would say perfect

FtWorthDan
2013-11-21, 10:34 PM
a tree 20 feet tall with a 1 foot radius would weight approximately 1800 pounds.

Trees, depending on season, change weight dramatically, however, hardwood, like oak, weighs approximately 50lbs per cubic foot.

A 20 foot tree, with a 1 foot radius has approximately 63 cubic feet of wood in it, making its weight 3150lbs.

Edit: That is the dry weight btw, a live tree will have thousands of pounds of water in it.

TheFamilarRaven
2013-11-22, 12:50 AM
Not to rain on the parade, but a large creature can't wield a two-handed weapon of gargantuan size, even with the monkey grip feat. SRD link, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielderís size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weaponís designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature canít wield the weapon at all.



even if they could theoretically pick it up.

Unless of course the DM is willing to ignore that rule, then you're fine, but RAW, it can't be done unless you have monkey grip and are enlarged to become a huge creature.

Edit: THAT being said, you could wield a huge tree as a two-handed weapon if you have monkey grip.

Or there could be some mumbo jumbo from some source I'm not aware of.

Red Bear
2013-11-22, 08:19 AM
Trees, depending on season, change weight dramatically, however, hardwood, like oak, weighs approximately 50lbs per cubic foot.

A 20 foot tree, with a 1 foot radius has approximately 63 cubic feet of wood in it, making its weight 3150lbs.

Edit: That is the dry weight btw, a live tree will have thousands of pounds of water in it.

you're right, I messed up somewhere while approximating values and converting from the metric system.