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Quellian-dyrae
2007-01-12, 01:24 AM
Playing a defensive character in D&D is a difficult affair. Even though the PHB2 has some good new defensive feats and abilities, it is still something of a trick simply because of the typical system of balance through situation. You can be really good in this situation, but you're going to be useless in this one. Rogues, in particular, know what I'm talking about.

For offensive characters, like rogues, that's annoying, but acceptable. So the golem has DR and without your sneak attack you can't even deal damage to it. That's what the barbarian and its power attack feat are there for. With defenders, though, being unable to use your primary abilities doesn't just mean you're going to be bored while your allies handle things; it means you're suffering a greater risk than usual, and, since you're not an offensive character, you can't even fight back effectively.

Ergo:

Eldritch Expertise (General, Fighter):
You are skilled at using a warrior’s tactics to defend against magic.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Base Attack Bonus +2.

Benefit: When you use your combat expertise feat, you may spend the points of AC gained to gain a luck bonus on a single class of saving throws, dividing your points among AC and saves as you see fit. For example, you might take -4 on your attack roll to get a +2 luck bonus to your Fortitude saves, a +1 luck bonus to your Reflex saves, and a +1 dodge bonus to your AC.

Eldritch Expertise, Improved (General, Fighter):
You can defend against multiple types of magical threats simultaneously.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Eldritch Expertise, Base Attack Bonus +4.

Benefit: When you use eldritch expertise, you may increase all of your saves. For every two points you remove from your AC bonus, you get a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. Additionally, the reduction to your AC bonus does not apply to your touch AC, but your touch AC cannot at any point be higher than your normal AC. For example, you might take -4 on your attack rolls to get +2 to normal AC, +1 to saving throws, and +4 to touch AC (up to a maximum touch AC of your normal AC).

If you wish, you can still increase a single save category at the cost of 1 point of AC per +1. If you increase all saves and a given category, the bonuses stack. For example, you might take -4 to attack rolls to get a +1 luck bonus on all saves, an additional +1 on Fortitude saves, and a +1 dodge bonus to AC.

Eldritch Expertise, Greater (General, Fighter):
You can defend against magical and physical attacks in tandem.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Eldritch Expertise, Improved Eldritch Expertise, Base Attack Bonus +6.

Benefit: Any time you use combat expertise, you apply half the AC bonus as a luck bonus on all saving throws, without lowering the bonus to your AC. For example, if you take -4 on attack rolls, you would get +4 to AC and a +2 to all saving throws.

If you wish, you may lower the AC bonus to raise individual saves on a point for point basis. You may not, however, lower the AC bonus to further increase all saves at once (in other words, you can apply greater eldritch expertise and eldritch expertise simultaneously, but not greater eldritch expertise and improved eldritch expertise).

Fax Celestis
2007-01-12, 01:37 AM
That's...pretty nifty. I can see a defensive, hold-the-line type fighter making excellent use of these.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-01-12, 02:39 AM
Or Conan, perhaps? Can't cleave the wizard's face if you get zapped first.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-12, 06:10 AM
Perfect! About time fighters learn how to defend themselves against magic.
Maybe add a Base Attack Bonus requeriment? A 2st level human fighter can get all these feats. Some of them would be good to be taken at higher levels, and a human wizard doesn't make much sense to have Eldritch Expertise at first level either.

Ultimatum479
2007-01-12, 06:22 AM
Basic concept's all right, but the mechanics are strange. You shouldn't ever have a higher Touch AC than regular AC....

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-12, 04:23 PM
I agree with Roderick. Just imagine the complete and utter HORROR of a Fighter/Dwarven Defender with these feats. Which is great, but a BAB adjustment would be very important, la Improved TWF

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-12, 05:08 PM
I agree. Love the feats, but add a BAB prerequisite that scales upward.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-12, 05:09 PM
I agree with Roderick. Just imagine the complete and utter HORROR of a Fighter/Dwarven Defender with these feats. Which is great, but a BAB adjustment would be very important, la Improved TWF

"Oh no! A dwarven defender! Quick, walk away at a brisk pace!"

Fax Celestis
2007-01-12, 05:22 PM
Knight/Dwarven Defender/Deepstone Sentinel is the ultimate in stationary destruction.

Quellian-dyrae
2007-01-12, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the input, all! I went with a 2/4/6 BAB progression, so that the feats are available reasonably early still. Considering the wealth of good weapon feats available at BAB 8, I didn't want to extend it up that high, since a weapon-dedicated character would probably wind up not finishing the tree until 10th or even 12th level.

Ultimatum479
2007-01-13, 09:13 AM
You're still giving a higher Touch AC than normal AC, which really doesn't make much sense. You should say something about the Touch AC not being able to surpass the normal AC.

Quellian-dyrae
2007-01-13, 02:20 PM
Huh...I took out the touch stacking in the rule for Greater, and left it in the example. That was brilliant.

Okay, that's fixed, and I also put a non-surpass note in Improved, as suggested. Thanks for the advice!

Matthew
2007-01-13, 06:40 PM
I like this idea, but I have to admit I'm not sold on the mechanics either. Reminds me of the Parrying Shield Feat.