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Philemonite
2013-11-26, 01:54 PM
Yes, this is a D&D 4E based Final Fantasy project. Since this is a big project I will get straight to the point. The core mechanics will remain the same with some minor adjustments. This will mostly be a refluff and recombination project. I will mostly be making classes, races and powers. Skills will remains the same. Feats and equipment will be a combination.
Since Healing Surges are integral part of 4E they will remain, but they will be renamed to Energy Surges. They will have some alternate uses, mostly for controllers.
I will use FFTA as a base for races, but I will add other races based on inspiration.
I will stick with the most common classes, for now.
Martial, Divine and Arcane power source should be easy to cover. The only common class that has Nature flavor is Blue Mage. Yes, Geomancer can fit, but that's not really a common class. Psonic classes will wait for third book.:smallamused:

Any help is welcome, no mater how small or big it is.

And if someone wants to say that there are better systems to use FF with (including a few FF tabletops) this thread is not about it, is it?:smallamused:


Priority list

-Finish Geomancer
-Polish Summoner(and maybe add Light Pact)
-Finish all the other classes
-Filter the feat list
-Filter items list
-Add new feats
-Add new items
-Expand to all heroic levels
-Create Paragon Paths
-Expend to Paragon levels
-Create Epic Epic Destinies
-Expand to Epic levels
Expected completion date: March 2017


Leaders-White Mage(Div), Bard(Mar), Geomancer(Pri), Alchemist(Arc)
Strikers-Hunter(Pri), Thief(Mar), Monk(Div), Ninja(Arc?)
Defenders-Knight(Mar), Paladin(Div), Samurai(Arc?), Blue Mage(Pri)
Controllers-Black Mage(Arc), Green Mage/Summoner(Pri), Dancer(Mar), Oracle(Div)

Nov 26-Started the project, added Nu Mou, Bangaa, Viera, Moogle and Hume race and White Mage class
Nov 27-Added Black Mage, Hunter and Paladin classes, added the class list
Nov 28-Rearranged the class list, added Bard, Geomancer and Alchemist classes
Nov 29-Added Green Mage, Summoner, Dancer, Oracle, Thief, Monk, Ninja, Knight, Samurai and Blue Mage classes
Dec 5-Continuing the project after a short break(fever sucks), WM class features finished, working on powers
Dec 12-WM is finished for now(I will need to add at least 2 more encounter/daily powers, but I can't think of anything at the moment), working on the Summoner at the moment.
Dec 22-Summoner is finished, for now. Light Pact is still a possibility, but I need to finish other classes first.
Feb 23-I'm back. Added the missing WM powers and polished it a bit.
Feb 28-Geomancer is coming along quite nicely.



Role: Leader. Your prayers focus on healing, curing and bolstering your allies. You lean towards Controller as your secondary role.

Power Source: Divine. You channel your divine powers granted to you by your deity.

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Charisma

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Mace, Hammer, Quarterstaff
Implement: Holy symbol, Staves
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below,
choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis)
Build Options: Purity White Mage/Protective White Mage
Class Features: Ritual Casting, White Seal, White Prayer, White Purity/White Protection, Angelic Ward



White Seal
When you use a power with the Healing keyword that allows a target to spend a healing surge, add your Charisma modifier to the amount of healing.
White Purity
When you use your White Prayer the target can make a saving throw for every save ends effect.
White Protection
When you use your White Prayer the target gets a +2 to all defenses until the end of his/her next turn.
Angelic Ward-While you are bloodied, you gain a +1 bonus to your defenses.

White Prayer
With a simple prayer you can summon the divine light to heal your allies
Encounter (Special) - Divine, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter.
Minor Action Ranged 5
(10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
Increase the amount of additional hit points regained to 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level, and 6d6 at 26th level.

Banish
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and the target takes -2 to attack rolls until the end of their next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier, and increase the attack roll penalty to -3.
Special: An undead target hit takes additional radiant damage equal to your level + your Charisma modifier.

[B]Holy Bolt
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d4 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage and you push the target 2 squares
Special: You can use this power as a ranged basic attack
Increase damage to 4d4 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Protective Strike

At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage
Effect: One ally you can see gains a +2 power bonus to AC until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier and bonus to +3 at 21st level.

Lead the attack
At-Will - Divine, Implement, Radiant
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and one ally you can see gains a +2 power bonus to his or her next attack roll against the target.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier and bonus to +3 at 21st level.


Flash
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage and inflicts Daze (save ends).

Ivory Gifting
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1 within 5
Primary Target: All enemies within the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and allies within the burst gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Glorious Rejuvenation
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 15
Primary Target: One ally within range
Effect: The target gains temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Range: Close Burst 2 centered on the target.
Secondary Targets: Enemies within burst
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: 1d8+Wisdom modifier radiant damage and the target takes a -1 to AC until the end of your next turn.


Dia
Daily - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, ongoing 5 radiant damage (save ends) and -2 penalty to all defenses (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and -2 penalty to defenses until the end of your next turn.

Inspiring Light
Daily - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Close Burst 3
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage.
Effect: Every ally in the burst gains +2 power bonus to his or her next attack roll.


Sacred Winds
Daily - Wind, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 2
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d10 + Wisdom modifier wind damage and you can slide the target 2 squares.
Miss: Half damage.



Protect
Daily - Divine
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, target gains a +2 power bonus to AC.

Shell
Daily - Divine
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, target gains a +1 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex and Will.

Basuna
Encounter - Divine
Standard Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: The target can make a saving throw against every save end effect.

Cure
Daily - Divine, Healing
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Target recovers HP as if he has spent a Healing Surge.


Thank you list:
JBPuffin, for his amazing assistance in providing some powers/class features
Cloud, for proving awesome feedback and helping me balance powers
Viladin454, for the info on his project, as well as his pathfinder conversion (http://www.finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/index.html), I am sure I pilfered got inspired by some of his ideas

Philemonite
2013-11-26, 01:56 PM
Ability Score: +2 Wisdom, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Nu Mou
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Religion

Strong Willed: +1 Will, +5 saving throws against charm effects(yes, it's Eladrin Will, but it fits perfectly)
Education: Once per encounter a Nu Mou can add a +5 bonus to a failed knowledge check
Theory in Practice: Gains training in one additional skill


Ability Score: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Darkvision

Languages: Common, Bangaa
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Athletics

Bangaa Fury: +1 attack when bloodied
Sturdy: +1 Fort
Dragonskin: Once per encounter a Bangaa can add +2 AC that lasts until the end of his next turn



Ability Score: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Viera
Skill Bonuses: +2 Perception, +2 Nature

Vieran Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency
with the longbow, shortbow and rapier.
Lithe Form: +1 Reflex
Vieran Accuracy: Once per encounter a Viera can reroll an attack roll



Ability Score: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Moogle
Skill Bonuses: +2 Streetwise, +2 Thievery

Exuberant Resilience: +1 to all saving throws.
Light Paws: +1 Reflex
Limited Flight: Once per encounter a Moogle can use his minor action to fly up to 8 squares



Ability Score: +2 Any
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Any
Bonus At-Will Power/Heroic Effort
Bonus Feat
Bonus Skill
Hume Defense Bonuses: +1 to Fortitude, Reflex, and
Will defenses.


Role: Leader. Your prayers focus on healing, curing and bolstering your allies. You lean towards Controller as your secondary role.

Power Source: Divine. You channel your divine powers granted to you by your deity.

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Charisma

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Mace, Hammer, Quarterstaff
Implement: Holy symbol, Staves
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below,
choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis)
Build Options: Purity White Mage/Protective White Mage
Class Features: Ritual Casting, White Seal, White Prayer, White Purity/White Protection, Angelic Ward

Role: Leader.
Power Source: Martial.


Key Abilities: Charisma, Intelligence, Dexterity

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
- 4E Bards get Chainmail and Light Shield, but I don't think that fits here
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Rapier, Simple Ranged
-Rapier is a must, everything else is ???
Implement: Instruments
-Wands/Rods?
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier
-Standard Leader HP
Trained Skills: Bluff. From the class skills list below,
choose four(five?) more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: Ritual Caster, ???

Role: Leader. Your bond with nature allows you to heal and bolster your allies. Depending on your choice of class features and powers, you lean toward either defender or controller as a secondary role.
Power Source: Primal.


Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail; Light Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Axes, Simple Ranged
Implement: Totems
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills:
Class Skills: Nature. From the class skills list below,
choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis)
Build Options: Shielding Geomancer/Crippling Geomancer
Class Features: Nature's Breath, One With The Nature, Shielding/Crippling Geomancy, Adaptable

Role: Leader.
Power Source: Arcane.


Key Abilities: Intelligence, Dexterity, Constitution
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather,
Weapon Proficiencies: Mace, Dagger, Guns*
-They do use maces in TA and Chemists use daggers in tactics.
Implement: Rods
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
-1 less ES then a standard leader
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below,
choose four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con) Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int)
-For some reason, I think they should have all knowledge skills. Some modifications needed
Build Options: ???
Class Features:Ritual Casting, Rejuvenating Brew, Throw Item

Role: Controller. You lean towards Striker as your secondary role.

Power Source: Arcane.

Key Abilities: Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, Quarterstaff
Implement: Orbs, staffs, wands
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below,
choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Wis)
-It's pretty much Wizard list with Perception.
Build Options: ???
-True controller/Area offense?
Class Features: Ritual Casting, ???

Role: Controller.
Power Source: Divine. You channel your divine powers granted to you by your deity.

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather?
Weapon Proficiencies: Sticks, Dictionaries
Implement: Staves
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
four trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis) Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: Ritual Casting, ???

Role: Controller.
Power Source: Martial.

Key Abilities: Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Daggers
Implement: None?
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier
-Is Leader HP too much?
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
five trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex) Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Insight (Wis) Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)
-Should I cut out Athletics and Endurance?
Build Options: Focused Dancer, Spread Dancer???
Class Features: Flourish, Nimble

Role: Controller.
Power Source: Primal

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Mace, Hammer
Implement: ???
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution modifier
-Is Leader HP too much?
Trained Skills: Nature. From the class skills list below, choose
three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis) Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis)
-Should they have Intimidate?
Build Options: ???
Class Features: Ritual Casting, ???

Role: Controller.
Power Source: Primal

Key Abilities: Charisma, ???

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger
Implement: Rods, Staves, Wands?
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Nature. From the class skills list below, choose
three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha) Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Streetwise (Cha)
Build Options: Elemental Summoner, Dark Summoner
Class Features: Ritual Casting, Summoner's Pact, Enlarged Summon, Elemental Blast/Crippling Bolt

Role: Striker.

Power Source: Primal.

Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom?

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, Simple Ranged, Military Ranged
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
four trained skills at 1st level.
Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis) Endurance (Con), Insight (Wis) Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Thievery (Dex)

Build Options: ???
-Bow/Thrown Mastery?
Class Features:Precision?, ???

Role: Striker.

Power Source: Martial.

Key Abilities: Dexterity, Charisma, Strength

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, sling, short sword
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Stealth and Thievery. From the class skills list below, choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Build Options: ???
Class Features:???, ???

Role: Striker.

Power Source: Divine.

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Strength

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: ???
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
four trained skills at 1st level.
Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis) Endurance (Con), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int)

Build Options: ???
Class Features: ???

Role: Striker.

Power Source: Arcane.

Key Abilities: Dexterity, Intelligence, Strength

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: ???
Bonus to Defense: +2 Reflex
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Energy Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
four trained skills at 1st level.
Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int) Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis) History (Int), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Thievery (Dex)

Build Options: ???
Class Features: ???

Role: Defender.
Power Source: Divine. You channel your divine powers granted to you by your deity.

Key Abilities: Strength, Charisma, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale, Plate; Light shield, Heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Military Melee, Simple Ranged
Implement: Holy symbol
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Energy Surges per Day: 10 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below,
choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight(Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Religion (Int)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: Cover, ???

Role: Defender.
Power Source: Martial

Key Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale; Light shield, Heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged
Bonus to Defense: +2 Fortitude
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Energy Surges per Day: 9 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose three trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Streetwise (Cha)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: ???

Role: Defender.
Power Source: Arcane

Key Abilities: Constitution, Intelligence, Dexterity

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military light blades, military heavy blades, simple ranged
Implement: Blades
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Energy Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: ???

Role: Defender.
Power Source: Primal

Key Abilities: Wisdom, Charisma, Constitution

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Light shield, Heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Military Melee, Simple Ranged
-???
Implement: ???
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Energy Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Nature. From the class skills list below,
choose four more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Insight(Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Wis), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex)
Build Options: ???
Class Features: ???

Philemonite
2013-11-26, 01:57 PM
Here is the list of feats that are compatible with this homebrew. Some feats remain the same, but some feats are adjusted to be compatible.

Heroic Feats

Action Surge-Prerequisite: Hume
Alertness
Armor Proficiency: (Chain)
Armor Proficiency: (Hide)
Armor Proficiency: (Leather)
Armor Proficiency: (Plate)
Armor Proficiency: (Scale)
Astral Fire
Blade Opportunist
Burning Blizzard
Combat Reflexes
Dark Fury
Defensive Mobility
Durable
Escape Artist
Far Shot
Far Throw
Fast Runner
Human Hume Perseverance
Improved Initiative
Jack of All Trades
Linguist
Long Jumper
Nimble Blade
Power Attack
Powerful Charge
Quick Draw
Raging Storm-Thunder is replaced with Wind
Ritual Caster
Shield Proficiency (Heavy)
Shield Proficiency (Light)
Skill Focus
Skill Training
Sure Climber
Toughness
Two-Weapon Defense
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus
Weapon Proficiency


Combat Medic
Distant Advantage
Expert Ritualist
Improved Grab
Melee Training
Restful Healing
Speed Loader
Timely Respite



Battle Hardened
Battle Caster Defense
Battering Shield
Beguiling Enchantment
Cascading Rush
Combat Intuition
Deadly Draw
Directed Bull Rush
Focused Mind
Grounding Shot
Hafted Defense
Hammering Iron
Headsman's Chop
Hybrid Talent
Impending Victory
Low Crawl
Lucky Start
Nimble Runner
Opportunistic Shove
Polearm Flanker
Power Throw
Rapid Assault
Shifting Defense
Skill Power
Spring Step
Steady Feet
Strike and Shove
Superior Implement Training
Teamwork Defense
Unarmored Agility
Unfailing Vigor
Vicious Advantage
Warding Defense

Philemonite
2013-11-26, 01:59 PM
Powers

Encounter (Special) - Divine, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter.
Minor Action Ranged 5
(10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
Increase the amount of additional hit points regained to 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level, and 6d6 at 26th level.

Banish
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and the target takes -2 to attack rolls until the end of their next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier, and increase the attack roll penalty to -3.
Special: An undead target hit takes additional radiant damage equal to your level + your Charisma modifier.

Holy Bolt
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d4 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage and you push the target 2 squares
Special: You can use this power as a ranged basic attack
Increase damage to 4d4 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Protective Strike
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage
Effect: One ally you can see gains a +1 power bonus to AC until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Lead the attack
At-Will - Divine, Implement, Radiant
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and one ally you can see gains a +2 power bonus to his or her next attack roll against the target.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier and bonus to +3 at 21st level.


Flash
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage and inflicts Daze (save ends).

Ivory Gifting
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1 within 5
Primary Target: All enemies within the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and allies within the burst gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Glorious Rejuvenation
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 15
Primary Target: One ally within range
Effect: The target gains temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Range: Close Burst 2 centered on the target.
Secondary Targets: Enemies within burst
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: 1d8+Wisdom modifier radiant damage and the target takes a -1 to AC until the end of your next turn.


Dia
Daily - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, ongoing 5 radiant damage (save ends) and -2 penalty to all defenses (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and -2 penalty to defenses until the end of your next turn.

Inspiring Light
Daily - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Close Burst 3
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage.
Effect: Every ally in the burst gains +2 power bonus to his or her next attack roll.


Sacred Winds
Daily - Wind, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 2
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d10 + Wisdom modifier wind damage.
Miss: Half damage.



Protect
Daily - Divine
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, target gains a +2 power bonus to AC.

Shell
Daily - Divine
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, target gains a +1 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex and Will.

Basuna
Encounter - Divine
Standard Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: The target can make a saving throw against every save end effect.

Cure
Daily - Divine, Healing
Minor Action Ranged 10
Targets: You or one ally
Effect: Target recovers HP as if he has spent a Healing Surge.







Heavenly Strike
Encounter - Ice, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier ice damage

Diamond Dust
Daily - Ice, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier ice damage and target is immobilized until the end of your next turn


Meteor Strike
Encounter - Fire, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier fire damage

Hellfire
Daily - Fire, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier fire damage and target is dazed until the end of your next turn


Thunderstorm
Encounter - Lightning, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier lightning damage

Judgement Bolt
Daily - Lightning, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier lightning damage and target is dazed until the end of your next turn


Wind Blade
Encounter - Wind, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier wind damage

Aerial Blast
Daily - Wind, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier wind damage and target is slowed until the end of your next turn


Grand Fall
Encounter - Water, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier water damage

Tidal Wave
Daily - Water, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier water damage and target is slowed until the end of your next turn


Geocrush
Encounter - Earth, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier earth damage

Earthen Fury
Daily - Earth, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier earth damage and target is immobilized until the end of your next turn



Kickline Dance
Encounter - Charm, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: The target is dazed until the end of your next turn


Lunatic Voice
Daily - Charm, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier psychic damage and target is dazed (save ends)



???
Encounter - Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn


Black Cauldron
Daily - Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier necrotic damage and target is slowed (save ends)


Ruinous Omen
Encounter - Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is immobilized until the end of your next turn


Dark Messenger
Daily - Charm, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier necrotic damage and target is immobilized (save ends)



Elemental Blast
At-Will - Elemental, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Primary Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier Elemental damage
Increase damage to 2d8 + Charisma modifier at 21st level

Crippling Bolt
At-Will - Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude/Reflex/Will
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage and the target is slowed/immobilized/dazed until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Charisma modifier at 21st level
Special: Targeted defense and condition depend on the summoner's pact.


Whispering Wind
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Sylph
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier damage and one ally you can see recovers amount of HP equal to the damage dealt.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 21st level

Constrict
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Remora
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Charisma modifier at 21st level

Cat Rain
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Cait Sith
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier damage and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 21st level

Earthen Wall
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Golem
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier damage and one ally you can see gets +2 power bonus to his AC until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Charisma modifier at 21st level




At-Will - Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W]
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.
Special: You can shift two squares before attacking


Bard Class Feature
Encounter (Special) # Martial, Healing
Special: Can be used 2/encounter, but 1/round. At 16th level, Soul Etude may be used 3/encounter.
Minor Action - Close Burst 5 (10 at 21st)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: Target spends an Energy Surge and regains additional HP equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, the target gains a +2 bonus to his/her next saving throw before the end of your next turn.
Level 6: 1d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 11: 2d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 16: 3d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 21: 4d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 26: 5d6+Cha mod additional HP




Drain Samba
At-Will - Martial
Standard Action Ranged 5
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: [W] + Dexterity modifier damage
Increase damage to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.
Special: One ally you can see recovers your Charisma modifier HP.

Avenging Step
At-Will - Martial
Standard Action Ranged 5
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: [W] + Dexterity modifier damage. If a bloodied ally is adjacent to the target, the attack deals extra damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.

Temporal Samba
At-Will - Martial
Standard Action Close blast 3
Primary Target: Each enemy in the blast
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: The target is slowed (save ends).
Miss: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Special: Allies in the blast can shift a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier.

Haste Samba
Encounter - Martial
Standard Action Ranged 5
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage
Special: One ally you can see can shift your Charisma modifier squares.

Quickstep
Encounter - Martial
Standard Action Close blast 3
Target: Each enemy in blast
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: [W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you push the target a number of squares equal to your Intelligence modifier.


Box Step
Daily - Martial
Standard Action Close blast 5
Primary Target: One or two enemies in the blast
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: [W] + Dexterity modifier damage and the target takes -2 penalty to all defenses (save ends).
Miss: Half damage.

Aspir Samba
Daily - Martial
Standard Action Close blast 5
Primary Target: One, two or three enemies in the blast
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: [W] + Dexterity modifier damage and the target is marked by an ally you can see.
Miss: Half damage.


Nature's Breath
Encounter (Special) - Primal, Healing
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use Nature's Breath three times per encounter.
Minor Action Close burst 5
(10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
The amount of additional hit points regained is 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level, and 6d6 at 26th level.



At-Will


Wind Slash
At-Will - Wind, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier wind damage and you push the target 2 squares
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Fissure
At-Will - Earth, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier earth damage and the target is slowed
until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Force of Nature
At-Will - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage and you gain temporary HP equal to your Constitution modifier
Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Magnetic Force
At-Will - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Special: You can pull one enemy within 5 squares 2 squares.*
Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
*Need better wording

Earthen Strike
At-Will - Primal, Weapon, Earth
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier earth damage.
Special: You and one ally adjacent to the target gain +1 power bonus to AC until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.






Encounter

Nature's Blessing
Encounter - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage and one ally you can see gains a +2 bonus to his next attack
Shielding Geomancer: Attack bonus is equal to 1 + Constitution modifier.

Nature's Wrath
Encounter - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. Next time the targeted enemy uses an attack that doesn't include you as a target the enemy takes damage equal to your Constitution modifier.


Will o' the Wisp
Encounter - Fire, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier fire damage and and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).


Mud Blast
Encounter - Earth, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier earth damage and the target is knocked prone.


Water Surge
Encounter - Water, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier water damage and you push the target 2 squares.
Crippling Geomancer: You push the target a number of squares equal to your 1 + Intelligence modifier.

Daily


El Niño
Daily - Water, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3d10 + Wisdom modifier water damage and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.

Sandstorm
Daily - Wind, Primal, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 3d8 + Wisdom modifier wind damage and the target suffers -2 attack penalty until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.






White Seal-Adds Wisdom modifier to the amount of HP healed
White Purity-When you use your White Prayer the target can make a saving throw for every save ends effect.
White Protection-When you use your White Prayer the target gets a +2 to all defenses until the end of his/her next turn.
Angelic Ward-While you are bloodied, you gain a +1 bonus to your defenses.

Elemental Pact-Pick an elemental(Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Wind or Water). Once per turn, as a minor action, you can switch the damage type of your next encounter or daily power to your chosen elemental.
Dark Pact-Once per encounter, as a minor action, you can improve the effect of your next encounter or daily power. Change the next "until the end of your next turn" negative effect into save ends.
Enlarged Summon-Once per day you can improve your next area burst attack. Add +1 to the burst size.

One With The Nature-Add +1 to every saving throw.
Adaptable-As long as you are standing on a natural terrain you are not affected by difficult terrain.
Shielding Geomancy-When you use your Nature's Breath power the target gains your Constitution modifier temporary HP
Crippling Geomancy-When you use your Nature's Breath power one enemy within 5 squares from the target suffers a penalty to his next attack roll equal to your Intelligence modifier

Nimble-When not wearing a heavy armor Dancers receive +2 to their AC.
Flourish-Dancers can release a powerful effects that cripple their enemies.

DedWards
2013-11-27, 03:23 AM
Glad to see this here. Sadly, like I mentioned in the PM, I probably won't be much help :smallfrown: I do see that each race only has possitives to attributes and no negatives. Somehow I think some negatives will be flavourful. I'll wait until there's more classes, etc. done before I try say anthing more.

Philemonite
2013-11-27, 04:12 AM
I decided to post the idea right away, and work on it here, instead of waiting until I have something finished.

In 4E each race gets +2 for 2 abilities, except for humans who get +2 for one ability of their choice. There are no penalties.

Cloud
2013-11-27, 06:25 AM
Hmm, this should be quite interesting.

On races, most of the races in 4ed now are +2 to your choice of two stats, +2 to another, for example the half-elf was updated to +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma or Wisdom (this format first appeared in PHB 3, but the majority of races have been updated since then).

Hume: This is the human, seems fine, though you might as well give them the option between Heroic Effort and the bonus at-will.

Nu Mou: It's not a bad thing, but it is odd to have a racial power that is a daily power. Maybe make it encounter, and instead of a re-roll it gives you a +5 bonus to the check you're about to make?

Bangaa: The +1 to AC could be iffy...but I suppose while their stat bumps are to the same NAD attribute and they have no NAD racial feature it could be okay...but then there is the problem if you update them to the other 4ed races. Possibly an encounter power could fit in here to boost AC, but that way it's not a constant thing? Not sure.

Viera: This would make them basically elves but they're missing a racial encounter power, and "elven" accuracy seems as fitting as any other. Though there might be others that fit better.

Moogle: Again, no racial encounter power. What a friend of mine did actually when they wanted to play a Moogle was make the power a short distance fly. Basically fey step but longer range while being a flight instead of a teleport.

Philemonite
2013-11-27, 06:44 AM
Hmm, this should be quite interesting.

On races, most of the races in 4ed now are +2 to your choice of two stats, +2 to another, for example the half-elf was updated to +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma or Wisdom (this format first appeared in PHB 3, but the majority of races have been updated since then).

I was thinking of copying the WotC and start with two attributes and add choices later.:smallwink:


Hume: This is the human, seems fine, though you might as well give them the option between Heroic Effort and the bonus at-will.

Hume are basically humans, not much I can do there, except add Heroic Effort. Thanks.


Nu Mou: It's not a bad thing, but it is odd to have a racial power that is a daily power. Maybe make it encounter, and instead of a re-roll it gives you a +5 bonus to the check you're about to make?

That can work, the point is to show their affinity towards Magic and Religion.


Bangaa: The +1 to AC could be iffy...but I suppose while their stat bumps are to the same NAD attribute and they have no NAD racial feature it could be okay...but then there is the problem if you update them to the other 4ed races. Possibly an encounter power could fit in here to boost AC, but that way it's not a constant thing? Not sure.

I was thinking of +1 Fort, but their ability bonuses already give them Fort bonus. I will add encounter power for every race, but I have no inspiration there.
Fort bonus and AC encounter boost sound good.


Viera: This would make them basically elves but they're missing a racial encounter power, and "elven" accuracy seems as fitting as any other. Though there might be others that fit better.

Vieran accuracy sounds good.


Moogle: Again, no racial encounter power. What a friend of mine did actually when they wanted to play a Moogle was make the power a short distance fly. Basically fey step but longer range while being a flight instead of a teleport.

That sounds interesting.

Thanks.:smallwink:

JBPuffin
2013-11-28, 12:02 AM
Hey, wait a second! I can actually provide constructive criticism and ideas for this! Awesome!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ideas for Races, mostly names:

Nu Mou Extra: free skill training, call it Theory in Practice ("Newt's Law of Acceleration tells me that if I jump at this angle, I'll clear the fence.") Also, why are Nu Mou Small? They're just hunched, not short.

Bangaa Power: Dragonskin

Viera Defense: Lithe Form

Moogle Defense: Light Paws
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ideas for Classes, with some comparisons to 4e:

White Mage - Shouldn't have Leather Armor; ought to get hammers (you know, tradition); Controller HP compensated by an additional skill and a better Healer's Mercy. I'm not sure if you can keep White Mages so focused on healing in 4e as they are in game, so maybe throw in some bonuses to the HP they do heal (maybe temp HP or bonuses to saves after a heal?) while adding more controller-style powers to the repertoire (bursts of dazing light, powers that heal on the side or move allies into better positions, etc.) and maybe make their heal power have an extra use per encounter (3/fight as starting point). Seriously, these guys are hard to move into 4e without breaking the eggs of tradition...

Black Mage - I hesitate to offer them orbs, and Wisdom simply doesn't make sense to me after the stereotypical Black Mage (8-bit has left its mark...). Everything else looks good; suggested Controller feature being MOAR DESTRUCTION/more accurate demolition. These guys are really quite simple to make in 4e, even with just the Wizard class.

Hunter - That missing skill is...Dungeoneering, maybe? I can see powers allowing for beast-catching, perhaps, or bonuses to catch creatures. As for the Striker feature, how about Aim? It seems to fit quite nicely. A bow-focused build isn't all that hard to do in normal 4e - Ranger, after all - but Primal isn't quite the Hunter's shtick, ya' know?

Paladin - Ought to have Athletics as a skill (seems a bit of a strange oversight...), maybe use a Cover-type ability for the Defender feature (target one ally, take any hits made at him and retaliate with Sanction)?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, for the un-statted material:

Power Sources: Time Mage is Arcane; it evolved from Black Magic, so it follows that it has the same source. I suggest having the Green Mage as a Controller (they status people more than buff), throwing Geomancer in as the Primal Leader, replacing Bard with the Alchemist, Sage, Red Mage or perhaps swap it with Summoner (Summoners cover a lot of bases, tbh) for the Arcane Leader spot. Dragoon could be made a Divine Striker (JUMP!!!), although Monk could also be Divine. Sage could be a Leader or Controller, Dark Knight would be a nice Shadow-based class (Shadow-power Ninja ,mayhaps?)...tbh, I'd best simply help you build the basic classes, then suggest more obscure ones.

Engineering: You ought to have a skill separate for technology. Seriously, maybe trade Dungeoneering's normal function for it, but it needs to exist in some form.

I'll be back once I have some other material to shoot holes through :smalltongue::smallbiggrin: . Until then, good luck!

Philemonite
2013-11-28, 05:32 AM
Hey, wait a second! I can actually provide constructive criticism and ideas for this! Awesome!

Now that is what I call feedback.:smallwink:


Ideas for Races, mostly names:

Nu Mou Extra: free skill training, call it Theory in Practice ("Newt's Law of Acceleration tells me that if I jump at this angle, I'll clear the fence.") Also, why are Nu Mou Small? They're just hunched, not short.

Bangaa Power: Dragonskin

Viera Defense: Lithe Form

Moogle Defense: Light Paws

Free skill training sounds good, they are the scholar race.:smallbiggrin:
Every 3.5 conversion lists them as small, so I just plagiarized that.:smalltongue:
Yes, names, I will need a lot of those.


Ideas for Classes, with some comparisons to 4e:

White Mage - Shouldn't have Leather Armor; ought to get hammers (you know, tradition); Controller HP compensated by an additional skill and a better Healer's Mercy. I'm not sure if you can keep White Mages so focused on healing in 4e as they are in game, so maybe throw in some bonuses to the HP they do heal (maybe temp HP or bonuses to saves after a heal?) while adding more controller-style powers to the repertoire (bursts of dazing light, powers that heal on the side or move allies into better positions, etc.) and maybe make their heal power have an extra use per encounter (3/fight as starting point). Seriously, these guys are hard to move into 4e without breaking the eggs of tradition...

I wasn't sure about the Leather and the HP, they are squishy, so they should be similar to BM.
Yes, hammers.
I was thinking of giving WM's class feature two versions be temporary HP or saving throw on their per encounter healing power.
Extra use of per encounter healing and extra skill should cover the loss of HP and armor compared to other Leaders.
In FF WM gets some nice status effects along with their status heals, so they should be able to make a passable controller.
The trick is not to make them too different from original, but still make them useful.


Black Mage - I hesitate to offer them orbs, and Wisdom simply doesn't make sense to me after the stereotypical Black Mage (8-bit has left its mark...). Everything else looks good; suggested Controller feature being MOAR DESTRUCTION/more accurate demolition. These guys are really quite simple to make in 4e, even with just the Wizard class.

Implements were based on Wizard, why should a Wizard have more options then a BM?:smalltongue:
Cha, Str and Con make even more sense to me.:smallconfused:
BM are simple, it's either mass death or crippling focus.


Hunter - That missing skill is...Dungeoneering, maybe? I can see powers allowing for beast-catching, perhaps, or bonuses to catch creatures. As for the Striker feature, how about Aim? It seems to fit quite nicely. A bow-focused build isn't all that hard to do in normal 4e - Ranger, after all - but Primal isn't quite the Hunter's shtick, ya' know?

That's the one. I actually took Ranger's skill list, since I was going with Archer. I changed to Hunter to make it sound more Primal. Actually, power sources in 4e are quite arbitrary. Paladin and Cleric are clearly Divine, but Avenger/Invoker can be refluffed into Martial/Arcane without changing the name of the class. Ranger can be a Primal class, it's just the mater of fluff. i was thinking that Precision can be a minor action that adds attack bonus (a Striker feature that adds accuracy, not damage). I see a second class feature as either launched or thrown bonus. Beast-catching is an interesting option.


Paladin - Ought to have Athletics as a skill (seems a bit of a strange oversight...), maybe use a Cover-type ability for the Defender feature (target one ally, take any hits made at him and retaliate with Sanction)?

That's the skill list of 4e Paladin, I will modify it, if needed. Cover as a primary class feature and defensive stance/counter as secondary?



Now, for the un-statted material:

Power Sources: Time Mage is Arcane; it evolved from Black Magic, so it follows that it has the same source. I suggest having the Green Mage as a Controller (they status people more than buff), throwing Geomancer in as the Primal Leader, replacing Bard with the Alchemist, Sage, Red Mage or perhaps swap it with Summoner (Summoners cover a lot of bases, tbh) for the Arcane Leader spot. Dragoon could be made a Divine Striker (JUMP!!!), although Monk could also be Divine. Sage could be a Leader or Controller, Dark Knight would be a nice Shadow-based class (Shadow-power Ninja ,mayhaps?)...tbh, I'd best simply help you build the basic classes, then suggest more obscure ones.

Like I said already, power sources are quite arbitrary. Time Mage can be seen as Primal, since it tempers with with space ad time. If I switch them to Arcane I will probably change it to PP or ED, since I don't really need two Arcane Controllers.
I see Green Mage as opposite of Time Mage(Leader/Controller), but I can change them to a Controller with Leader as secondary.
Bard can be Martial Leader(based on Warlord), it would mirror the Dancer as Martial Controller. (that is genius, right?:smalltongue: Their dances can be seen as mundane, so Martial power source fits well.) Chemist can be a PP or ED for Alchemist(Arcane Leader). Monk can be a Divine Striker, but I am having trouble classifying Dragoon. I might skip him for now(the last thing I need is a pile of Martial Strikers if I don't have all the combination covered). Geomancer as a Primal Leader can work quite nicely. Summoners have a lot of options, that is true, but for me a Summoner is a symbol of mass destruction(I love my Shiva). I will skip Shadow for now, but I will probably add Shadow classes before Psonic classes(if I ever add Psonic classes, there isn't really much psonics in FF). I will keep the Sage as an option to plug any hole, since they are flexible. Red Mage can be similar to Skald, they can be Martial, Arcane and Divine Leaders with Controller as a secondary, otherwise known as kitchen sink.:smalltongue:
I will rearrange classes, and see what I get.
Edit: Well, if Samurai can be consider Arcane Defender(inspired by Swordmage) and Ninja can be an Arcane Striker(it's a stretch, but not entirely impossible) then I have all the combinations covered. Green Mage and summoner are different enough, so they can share the Primal Controller role.



Engineering: You ought to have a skill separate for technology. Seriously, maybe trade Dungeoneering's normal function for it, but it needs to exist in some form.

That's a good idea. Ay other skill idea? I didn't really intend to change anything there since I don't think anything is missing.


I'll be back once I have some other material to shoot holes through :smalltongue::smallbiggrin: . Until then, good luck!

Thanks, I will need it.

JBPuffin
2013-11-28, 08:49 AM
...GAH! Forum ate my post! GRRR!

Just so you know, the Small Nu Mou is a lie....A LIE!!:smalltongue:

Anyway, I like your ideas now that I've sort of followed the train of thought (Bard/Dancer pairing makes sense, I just have a really strange relationship with Bards in FF :smallannoyed:).

I think Summoners ought to have Leader as a second at least (Moogle, Kirin, Carbuncle etc.), but primary Controller does work. Dragoon is definitely a Striker, but it could also be a PP of Knight (...why didn't I think of that before?), similar to how Illusionist, Calculator and the old Black Wizard could be PPs of Black Mage.

Wait, what non-healy/buff things do White Mages get?:smallconfused: I'm not seeing it, although most of my FF has been FF9 and the Tactics series...

Oh, and will there be hybrids? I love those things. :smallbiggrin:

Philemonite
2013-11-28, 09:15 AM
...GAH! Forum ate my post! GRRR!

That happened to me a few times, it's not fun.:smallsigh:


Just so you know, the Small Nu Mou is a lie....A LIE!!:smalltongue:

Well, Nu Mou are like cake.:smallwink:


Anyway, I like your ideas now that I've sort of followed the train of thought (Bard/Dancer pairing makes sense, I just have a really strange relationship with Bards in FF :smallannoyed:).

Bard and Dancer were always opposites i my mind. The songs and dances can be magical, but they can also be mundane, so they fit the Martial power source.


I think Summoners ought to have Leader as a second at least (Moogle, Kirin, Carbuncle etc.), but primary Controller does work. Dragoon is definitely a Striker, but it could also be a PP of Knight (...why didn't I think of that before?), similar to how Illusionist, Calculator and the old Black Wizard could be PPs of Black Mage.

I agree, summoners can be secondary Leaders, but not primary.
Most of the classes that are not so common can serve as PP and ED, but I have a lot of work before that.:smalltongue:


Wait, what non-healy/buff things do White Mages get?:smallconfused: I'm not seeing it, although most of my FF has been FF9 and the Tactics series...

I think that Blind and Silence were exclusive to WM in original FF. I'm not sure.


Oh, and will there be hybrids? I love those things. :smallbiggrin:

Maybe one day, I need to finish this first.:smallwink:

I added Bard, Geomance and Alchemist.
Geomancer is one big blank at the moment.

JBPuffin
2013-11-28, 09:53 AM
Hooray, more stuff!

Moogles are too energetic to let negative conditions affect them; Exuberant Resilience - +1 to all saving throws.

Now that I look at it, Hunters ought to only have four skills; they aren't skill monkeys, but they are pretty versatile.

Bard - Instruments ought to be their only implement; simple all + rapier works for profs.; maybe light shield, but not chainmail; 5 skill options (with that skill list, they need them); Normal Ritual Caster (it's the ability to cast rituals; there is no need to reflavor it.) Their 'Word' power ought to be Soul Etude, adding a bonus to the target's saving throws for a time. Also, Hurdy from FFTA2 just rocks.

Geo: YES!!! Axes and Totems (or Bells) for sure, Armor looks good, extra surge is good; Con for ability score, maybe Str as well; Skill List - Nature, Pick 3: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Nature, Perception. Leader Feature ought to be...Nature's Breath, providing some sort of protection against terrain for a time.

Alch: Skip Hide; maces, daggers and perhaps guns (which, btw, could simply be reskinned crossbows); rods, not wands; add Engineering to skill list (it's Int-based, after all, or at least it ought to be). Should get a feature allowing them to throw consumables to allies and activating their effects (maybe as a Minor Action, maybe not...), and their Leader Feature ought to be a Ranged thing that adds a bonus to damage for a time; call it Rejuvenating Brew.

Also, looking into Alchemist and Geomancer, I suddenly realized these guys really are mainly Controllers; Geo does nothing but tear down his foes, while the Alch's Leader functions are really just his ability to hand out items. I'd say keep them as Leaders, but if other ideas show up these guys can be moved to the Controller role if need be.

Philemonite
2013-11-28, 11:21 AM
Hooray, more stuff!

Indeed.:smalltongue:


Moogles are too energetic to let negative conditions affect them; Exuberant Resilience - +1 to all saving throws.

Sounds good.


Now that I look at it, Hunters ought to only have four skills; they aren't skill monkeys, but they are pretty versatile.

Noted.


Bard - Instruments ought to be their only implement; simple all + rapier works for profs.; maybe light shield, but not chainmail; 5 skill options (with that skill list, they need them); Normal Ritual Caster (it's the ability to cast rituals; there is no need to reflavor it.) Their 'Word' power ought to be Soul Etude, adding a bonus to the target's saving throws for a time. Also, Hurdy from FFTA2 just rocks.

Martial Ritual Caster?:smallconfused:


Geo: YES!!! Axes and Totems (or Bells) for sure, Armor looks good, extra surge is good; Con for ability score, maybe Str as well; Skill List - Nature, Pick 3: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Nature, Perception. Leader Feature ought to be...Nature's Breath, providing some sort of protection against terrain for a time.

Skill list looks good.
Geomancers were always a strange beast, they get a little more survivability, but their effects will be a little less powerful.


Alch: Skip Hide; maces, daggers and perhaps guns (which, btw, could simply be reskinned crossbows); rods, not wands; add Engineering to skill list (it's Int-based, after all, or at least it ought to be). Should get a feature allowing them to throw consumables to allies and activating their effects (maybe as a Minor Action, maybe not...), and their Leader Feature ought to be a Ranged thing that adds a bonus to damage for a time; call it Rejuvenating Brew.

Just cloth? They shouldn't be doing any melee anyway. Crossbow based guns are doable.



Also, looking into Alchemist and Geomancer, I suddenly realized these guys really are mainly Controllers; Geo does nothing but tear down his foes, while the Alch's Leader functions are really just his ability to hand out items. I'd say keep them as Leaders, but if other ideas show up these guys can be moved to the Controller role if need be.

There is a serious lack of Leaders (and Defenders) in FF, but there is plenty of Strikers and Controllers. That's why WM is irreplaceable.

What do you think of Samurai/Ninja?

JBPuffin
2013-11-28, 11:42 AM
Nah, the Ritual Caster the mages get. I was just making the point that rituals don't need magic skill to perform, just the knowledge and materials.

Give the Alchemist Leather; they ought to have some melee ability, seeing as it and the Sage both use maces and the Sage is one of the Nu Mou's most melee-viable classes (besides Morpher, of course).


What do you think of Samurai/Ninja?

What do you mean exactly? I don't see statistics, so do you want some? Or do you mean as concepts in general? Clarify, please.

Oh, and for the future, Knight's builds ought to be Soldier (Str/Wis) and Fencer (Str/Dex), since FFTA is a huge resource for an FF->4e conversion. I suggest having Berserker, Defender and FFTA-style Fighter as PP.

Philemonite
2013-11-28, 12:08 PM
Nah, the Ritual Caster the mages get. I was just making the point that rituals don't need magic skill to perform, just the knowledge and materials.

Interesting.


Give the Alchemist Leather; they ought to have some melee ability, seeing as it and the Sage both use maces and the Sage is one of the Nu Mou's most melee-viable classes (besides Morpher, of course).

That leaves White Mage as the only non-melee Leader.:smallamused:


What do you mean exactly? I don't see statistics, so do you want some? Or do you mean as concepts in general? Clarify, please.

I meant as Arcane Defender/Striker.


Oh, and for the future, Knight's builds ought to be Soldier (Str/Wis) and Fencer (Str/Dex), since FFTA is a huge resource for an FF->4e conversion. I suggest having Berserker, Defender and FFTA-style Fighter as PP.

I think that every class from FFTA can be made into PP, it is that awesome. I'm gonna go play it again.:smallwink:

JBPuffin
2013-11-28, 12:54 PM
White Mage should be the only non-melee leader; there's a reason you other guys have those weapons, people!:smallbiggrin: (and with White Mages using hammers...:smallwink:)

Samurai and Ninja as Arcane works for me; this does mean Samurai's focus needs to be on elemental blade magic-type powers, while Ninja gets its cool Veil abilities...and Dual Wield and Throw as class feature choices, one or the other.

I'd say all the classes from FFTA can be fit somewhere in the game; FFTA2, though, with its Cannoneer, Ranger, Viking...I'm not so sure...:smalltongue:


And while I'm at it:
Soul Etude - Bard Class Feature
Encounter (Special) # Martial, Healing
Special: Can be used 2/encounter, but 1/round. At 16th level, Soul Etude may be used 3/encounter.
Minor Action - Close Burst 5 (10 at 21st)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: Target spends an Energy Surge and regains additional HP equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, the target gains a +2 bonus to his/her next saving throw before the end of your next turn.
Level 6: 1d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 11: 2d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 16: 3d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 21: 4d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 26: 5d6+Cha mod additional HP


A test version of the Bard's heal. You like?

Philemonite
2013-11-28, 01:52 PM
White Mage should be the only non-melee leader; there's a reason you other guys have those weapons, people!:smallbiggrin: (and with White Mages using hammers...:smallwink:)

Yeah, she uses it to smack people, and then heal them (stupid white mage oath :smalltongue:).


Samurai and Ninja Arcane works for me; this does mean Samurai's focus needs to be on elemental blade magic-type powers, while Ninja gets its cool Veil abilities...and Dual Wield and Throw as class feature choices, one or the other.

Don't forget Blade Grasp.:smallwink:


I'd say all the classes from FFTA can be fit somewhere in the game; FFTA2, though, with its Cannoneer, Ranger, Viking...I'm not so sure...:smalltongue:

Actually, a Viking can make an interesting PP for Strikery Geomancer.:smallwink:


And while I'm at it:
Soul Etude - Bard Class Feature
Encounter (Special) # Martial, Healing
Special: Can be used 2/encounter, but 1/round. At 16th level, Soul Etude may be used 3/encounter.
Minor Action - Close Burst 5 (10 at 21st)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: Target spends an Energy Surge and regains additional HP equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, the target gains a +2 bonus to his/her next saving throw before the end of your next turn.
Level 6: 1d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 11: 2d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 16: 3d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 21: 4d6+Cha mod additional HP
Level 26: 5d6+Cha mod additional HP


A test version of the Bard's heal. You like?

Standard healing power, looks good.:smallwink:

Philemonite
2013-11-29, 06:28 AM
All classes added, now I need to work on class features. That's gonna take a while.

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 11:25 AM
How about having Witch as class (based on the witches in ff8) and you can have the following powers:

Maelstrom - Encounter power
Hell's Judgement - Daily Power
Great Attractor - Encounter Power
Telekinesis - At-Will power

Etc, etc :)

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 11:44 AM
How about having Witch as class (based on the witches in ff8) and you can have the following powers:

Maelstrom - Encounter power
Hell's Judgement - Daily Power
Great Attractor - Encounter Power
Telekinesis - At-Will power

Etc, etc :)

You mean a Sorceress?:smallamused:

That can be a PP, but base classes are pretty much set (with the exception of possible Shadow classes).

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 12:30 PM
You can call it sorceress, but that was just the western translation for it. The song is not called Succession of Sorceresses after all lol

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 12:45 PM
You can call it sorceress, but that was just the western translation for it. The song is not called Succession of Sorceresses after all lol

Well, this is for western market.:smalltongue:

I am working on class features and powers at the moment, any help you can provide there would be appreciated. My initial idea is to make it playable at 1st level, and move on from there. Level 11 is far away for now.:smallwink:

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 12:57 PM
That's fair enough. I was thinking maybe you should have just Mage as a class then you can have players choose from three build options:

White Guardian (white mage)
Black Warcaster (black mage)
Time Manipulator (time mage)

Then you can have the Sorceress and whatever as PP.

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 01:05 PM
That's fair enough. I was thinking maybe you should have just Mage as a class then you can have players choose from three build options:

White Guardian (white mage)
Black Warcaster (black mage)
Time Manipulator (time mage)

Then you can have the Sorceress and whatever as PP.

But then it wouldn't fit into Role/Power Source concept.:smallconfused:

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 02:16 PM
Mage:

Power Source : Arcane
Role: controller

That's how I see mages anyway but its just a suggestion.

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 02:21 PM
Mage:

Power Source : Arcane
Role: controller

That's how I see mages anyway but its just a suggestion.

But White Mage is a Divine Leader.:smallconfused:

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 02:40 PM
Like I said, it was just a suggestion. I said controller as I see mages 'controlling' magic as it were. At the end of the day, its your system. I'll think of other things for you.

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 02:57 PM
Like I said, it was just a suggestion. I said controller as I see mages 'controlling' magic as it were. At the end of the day, its your system. I'll think of other things for you.

It's not mine, it belongs to WotC, I'm just reflavoring it with Final Fantasy.:smallwink:

D&D 4E has four combat roles, comparable to MMO roles: Defender(Tank), Striker(DPS), Leader(Healer) and Controller(Crowd Control). Every class specializes in one of those roles.

Marc_In_Da_Room
2013-11-30, 03:15 PM
That's one thing I never fully understood about 4e. Thanks for clearing that up :smallwink:

Philemonite
2013-11-30, 03:27 PM
That's one thing I never fully understood about 4e. Thanks for clearing that up :smallwink:

That's one of the things I like most about 4E, combat is strategic, not just kill everything that moves. A balanced party has the highest chance to survive, a group full of Strikers isn't going to get far.:smalltongue:

Philemonite
2013-12-05, 06:28 AM
My fever is gone, so I'm getting back to the project. White Mage class features are (probably) done, working on powers right now. I think that Basuna allowing a save for save ends effects should be fine. Esuna should remove any negative effect, even those that don't allow a save, so it should be a higher level power.
I might add a class feature that adds temporary HP to White Prayer, to offer a third build, but that's something for the future. I will stick with level 1-2 powers for now, to make the class playable to start with. Anything above that will be worked on after all classes have the basics. Any suggestions are welcome.:smallwink:

JBPuffin
2013-12-06, 09:59 AM
Recently, I've started playing FFTA again, and I have to say that while he's useful, this White Mage version is even more so. Right now, it's a controller with healing powers...and you know what? I love that. Heck, it makes perfect sense. Good start on the first class, man.

As for Thief, should it have a Sneak Attack option? Sneak Attack ties in well both with how I use Thieves in FFTA and standard convention and is the traditional tool of bandits everywhere.

And how will Blue Mage work? Will it have pre-set powers, or will it learn abilities from enemies (please let it be the latter...)?

Philemonite
2013-12-06, 10:48 AM
Recently, I've started playing FFTA again, and I have to say that while he's useful, this White Mage version is even more so. Right now, it's a controller with healing powers...and you know what? I love that. Heck, it makes perfect sense. Good start on the first class, man.

It's a compensation for low HP and crappy armor. Now I only need a few leaderish encounter/daily powers and he is all set.:smallwink:


As for Thief, should it have a Sneak Attack option? Sneak Attack ties in well both with how I use Thieves in FFTA and standard convention and is the traditional tool of bandits everywhere.

I might change the name to make it more FF, but bonus damage when flanking an enemy sounds like a good class feature.


And how will Blue Mage work? Will it have pre-set powers, or will it learn abilities from enemies (please let it be the latter...)?

I was thinking a combination, some powers would be like standard powers and some would be classical Blue Mage powers that need to be learned. Similar to the way that Druids have standard powers and beast form powers. I will probably go with something similar to Wizard spellbook, you can have as many Blue Mage powers know as you want, but you need to prepare them when you rest.

Philemonite
2013-12-13, 09:33 AM
Summoner's encounter and daily powers are almost done, I just need to add effects to some of them.

Summoners will function a little differently. Every summoner starts with one Eidolon of his choice (based on his pact). There are 9 greater summons (6 elemental and 3 dark). Summoners don't learn new powers like other classes do. Instead of learning a new power of their level the summoner learns a new level 1 daily/encounter power and improves all of his existing powers. So, if you pick Shiva as your starting summon you get Diamond Dust as a daily power. When you reach level 5 you get to learn a new level 1 daily power and your Diamond Dust improves to level 5.

What summons are available is up to the DM, although a battle with an Eidolon to gain his/her favor is advised.:smallwink:

JBPuffin
2013-12-13, 05:15 PM
...Okay, I'm very impressed with the system for summoners; since you have a very clear power for the Summon powers, I could make an Eidolon, pick its element and a status effect, and balance to taste. Pure genius, Asteron. :smallcool:

I would point out that this should probably have a cap at, say, 5 powers, otherwise the players will go into option overload. 4e has limits on the number of powers for a reason, and unbalancing that could cause some serious damage to the balance.

JBPuffin
2013-12-14, 10:43 AM
Ideas for White Mage encounter powers:

Ivory Gifting
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1 within 5
Primary Target: All enemies within the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and allies within the burst regain hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Glorious Rejuvenation
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 15
Primary Target: One ally within range
Effect: The target recovers hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Range: Close Burst 2 centered on the target.
Secondary Targets: Enemies within burst
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: 1d8+Wisdom modifier radiant damage and the target takes a -1 to AC until the end of your next turn.

Philemonite
2013-12-14, 11:12 AM
...Okay, I'm very impressed with the system for summoners; since you have a very clear power for the Summon powers, I could make an Eidolon, pick its element and a status effect, and balance to taste. Pure genius, Asteron. :smallcool:

I would point out that this should probably have a cap at, say, 5 powers, otherwise the players will go into option overload. 4e has limits on the number of powers for a reason, and unbalancing that could cause some serious damage to the balance.

It was a sudden surge of inspiration, I have no idea where it came from, but I am grateful for it.:smallamused:

I do intend to replace ???s with actual conditions, but you can easily change them to fit your idea of a particular Eidolon, provided that your GM agrees.:smalltongue:

Number of powers and their levels have the same limitations as other classes, they just advance differently. Even if you have a favor of a particular Eidolon it doesn't mean that you can use it's powers, you simply have the option to pick them.


Ideas for White Mage encounter powers:

Ivory Gifting
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Area Burst 1 within 5
Primary Target: All enemies within the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and allies within the burst regain hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Glorious Rejuvenation
Encounter - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 15
Primary Target: One ally within range
Effect: The target recovers hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Range: Close Burst 2 centered on the target.
Secondary Targets: Enemies within burst
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: 1d8+Wisdom modifier radiant damage and the target takes a -1 to AC until the end of your next turn.

Ranged 15 seams like too much range, but otherwise they look good.:smallwink:

Philemonite
2013-12-22, 10:16 AM
Summoner is done. I'm pretty satisfied with class features, they get Ritual Casting, a daily benefit based on their chosen pact, Enlarged Summon and one At-Will power based on their chosen Eidolon. They also have one advantage over other Controllers, their summons are party friendly.

Moving on to the next class.

JBPuffin
2013-12-29, 08:42 PM
Nice! Summoner is complete; cool.

Quick question: what's the plan for Flourish? Any idea for its mechanical effect?

Philemonite
2013-12-30, 12:21 PM
I was thinking once per encounter minor action that adds negative effect to the next weapon attack. I'm not sure yet.

Viladin454
2014-01-05, 12:27 PM
Asteron, if you're interested.. I still have a few 4E Final Fantasy stuff leftover when I and others worked on it and abandoned the project. Welcome to it. (Not listed below, I have a Bard and Blue Mage class pretty much done, just needs to add boxes, color, and to be prettied up.)

http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Hume.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Al_Bhed.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Cetra.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Bangaa.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Nu_Mou.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Ronso.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Viera.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Moogle.pdf
http://finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/4E/Fighter_LB.pdf

Philemonite
2014-01-05, 12:50 PM
Of course I am interested.:smalltongue:

Philemonite
2014-02-23, 10:17 AM
After a "short" break I am continuing work on this project. To celebrate that I have finished working on White Mage class. With 4 at-will, 3 encounter, 3 daily and 4 utility powers White Mage should be fully playable at level 1 (and 2). Counting Summoner that is 2 playable classes, yay.:smallwink:

The Dancer class is currently one big mess, and I probably won't untangle that for some time. I am not sure which I will be working on next, probably Samurai or Geomancer.

As always, any feedback will be appreciated.

Cloud
2014-02-24, 02:42 PM
Woot, awesome to see this being worked on again. About to go sleep but I'll look at this in more detail later. Looking at the white mage though, focusing on the at-wills for now;

Banish: This probably could do with an effect on living targets as well. Something like -2 to attack rolls or AC could work, possibly AC or a defense of your choice given how the undead portion of this power works. As for the undead portion of it, double damage isn't really a 4e mechanic, and adding a large amount of flat damage is probably better, or extra damage die. Also personally I wouldn't add a saves end effect on an at-will, conditional or not. ...This got more rambly than I would have liked, this might be how I'd do it though.
Banish
You rebuke the creature, those clinging to life through foul means more strongly affected.
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and the target takes -2 to attack rolls until the end of their next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier, and increase the attack roll penalty to -3.
Special: An undead target hit takes additional radiant damage equal to your level + your Charisma modifier.

Holy Bolt: This seems pretty good, a little on the weak side, but a radiant ranged basic attack is okay. I personally would up the range and damage, or consider a minor effect. (Not really sure here, my first thought was forced movement, but this is a leader, not a controller. Maybe you light them up and make them easier for allies to hit [give them a penalty to AC]).

Protective Strike: ...Hard to tell on these boards, is that effect line meant to be indented to show that it only works if the power hits, or is it an effect that just needs you to use the power? In either case the bonus should be at least +2, but if it's the former it should probably scale to +3 at Level 21, but it's the latter it's probably okay at +2.

Lead the Attack: I'd probably scale the bonus to +3 at level 21 if you're going to type it (which don't take me wrong, you should), but otherwise this is a great power, it's probably the one I see myself using the most if I used this class.

For what it's worth though most of what I say is through the lens that Twin Strike is too good...but most other at-wills in the game are really not that great and are sometimes hard to justify using over charging. If you use your at-wills a lot...they should be decent. Plus I'm also assuming that things like domain support won't happen (or if anything similar happens that's a long way off), and also as a homebrew there won't be say, 13+ powers to choose from, so I'm erring towards too good when in doubt.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-02-24, 06:01 PM
I'm subscribing to this and will input some thoughts later, I'll need to read over everything first but...

This sounds fantastic :D

When 4e came out I made my own FF1 classes and fluff, nice to see someone else put some FF flavor in 4e.

Philemonite
2014-02-25, 12:02 PM
Woot, awesome to see this being worked on again. About to go sleep but I'll look at this in more detail later. Looking at the white mage though, focusing on the at-wills for now;

Banish: This probably could do with an effect on living targets as well. Something like -2 to attack rolls or AC could work, possibly AC or a defense of your choice given how the undead portion of this power works. As for the undead portion of it, double damage isn't really a 4e mechanic, and adding a large amount of flat damage is probably better, or extra damage die. Also personally I wouldn't add a saves end effect on an at-will, conditional or not. ...This got more rambly than I would have liked, this might be how I'd do it though.
Banish
You rebuke the creature, those clinging to life through foul means more strongly affected.
At-Will - Radiant, Divine, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and the target takes -2 to attack rolls until the end of their next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier, and increase the attack roll penalty to -3.
Special: An undead target hit takes additional radiant damage equal to your level + your Charisma modifier.

That actually sounds better, it is still usable for ordinary opponents. Charisma modifier is also a great idea, I need to make use of WM's secondary abilities.


Holy Bolt: This seems pretty good, a little on the weak side, but a radiant ranged basic attack is okay. I personally would up the range and damage, or consider a minor effect. (Not really sure here, my first thought was forced movement, but this is a leader, not a controller. Maybe you light them up and make them easier for allies to hit [give them a penalty to AC]).

Forced movement does sound good, and White Mage is already a secondary controller.


Protective Strike: ...Hard to tell on these boards, is that effect line meant to be indented to show that it only works if the power hits, or is it an effect that just needs you to use the power? In either case the bonus should be at least +2, but if it's the former it should probably scale to +3 at Level 21, but it's the latter it's probably okay at +2.

The AC bonus is always applied, even if the attack misses. I guess that should be under special, not effect?


Lead the Attack: I'd probably scale the bonus to +3 at level 21 if you're going to type it (which don't take me wrong, you should), but otherwise this is a great power, it's probably the one I see myself using the most if I used this class.

Scaling, yes.:smalltongue:
It is an everyday power, simple yet always useful. You can never have too high bonus to attack.


For what it's worth though most of what I say is through the lens that Twin Strike is too good...but most other at-wills in the game are really not that great and are sometimes hard to justify using over charging. If you use your at-wills a lot...they should be decent. Plus I'm also assuming that things like domain support won't happen (or if anything similar happens that's a long way off), and also as a homebrew there won't be say, 13+ powers to choose from, so I'm erring towards too good when in doubt.

I guess I'm trying not too make the powers too powerful, but that just makes them boring.:smalltongue:
I didn't even think about the domains, that is way, way down the line.
My primary goal is to make all the classes playable at level 1.
2 down, 15 more to go.


I'm subscribing to this and will input some thoughts later, I'll need to read over everything first but...

This sounds fantastic :D

When 4e came out I made my own FF1 classes and fluff, nice to see someone else put some FF flavor in 4e.

I'll be here.:smallwink:

If you want to share any of your work that would be great.

Cloud
2014-02-25, 01:34 PM
For Protective Strike, how you have it written is correct and means that the effect always applies, just that if the effect line was indented it would mean its dependent on the hit...though in that case I'd say just put it in the hit line. ...So in other words it's correct, don't worry, just making sure it was an intentional correctness and not the forum taking out space.

Anyway, more on the white mage because I love them in Final Fantasy;

Class Features: White Seal should probably read something like;
White Seal: When you use a power with the Healing keyword that allows a target to spend a healing surge, add your wisdom modifier to the amount of healing.

Wording aside, this might be a place to use their Charisma modifier. White Purity would probably still be better than White Seal if it only granted one saving throw.

White Prayer: Seems like a fairly standard healing power, not much to say here, though you may wish to make it close burst 5/10/15, and then target one creature in the burst, otherwise this provokes an attack of opportunity. If that's okay or even the intent, never mind, just most leader powers don't.

Encounter Powers
Flash: Personally a level 1 encounter power shouldn't give out save ends effect. Related...Blind is a really, really good condition, I wouldn't give it out at level 1. ...Or before say level 13 on encounter powers. (That being said Fighters get a level 3 Blind...but the power does no damage and is end of turn.) The damage is okay, though actually on the high end for a power you'd pick for the condition. Not sure if you want to change the condition, or change the level, or make it a daily, etc. (or just ignore me as well =P ).

Ivory Gifting and Glorious Rejuvenation have the same problem in my opinion, in that surgeless healing is really, really easy to abuse. It's less bad on dailies of course, but low level encounter powers are power jewel bait. In general healing powers at low levels let the target use a healing surge, and then as levels increase giving that healing a bonus is fine, but still need the target to use a surge (or maybe use your own, or something). Daily utilities are about the only powers I'd think surgeless based healing would be unable to be abused. Of course instead of actually healing, giving out temporary hit points has a similar effect without being abusable.

Daily Powers
Fair warning, I'm pretty bad at judging daily powers compared to other types, given that I see various encounter powers and at-wills every fight, while dailies are well, less seen.

Dia: This seems good, my only question is that if a successful saving throw ends both effects? As written they're two different conditions, and that's fine if that's the intent, just making sure it was.

Inspiring Light: This seems good as well, the fact the bonus effects every ally is really, really powerful, but it's only +2, and it's a power bonus, and it's a short range for a squishy caster...sorry, mostly rambling here, I think in the end this power is fine.

Sacred Winds: This one seems a bit...bland. For just damage, it doesn't do nearly enough even with the large area. I'd increase the damage, or add an effect. Also just noting that Wind isn't a keyword in 4ed, but all the same it's probably worth adding for Final Fantasy. (For what it's worth a wind attack in 4ed would normally either not have a keyword...or I guess be Thunder. ...An actual Wind keyword might be nice.)

Utility
Basuna is probably too good for level 2 (maybe only let them save against one effect?), but otherwise these powers seem good, if mostly because they're dailies (and for the first two typed). I don't know, I need to play more leaders and controllers I think. XD

Philemonite
2014-02-25, 02:23 PM
For Protective Strike, how you have it written is correct and means that the effect always applies, just that if the effect line was indented it would mean its dependent on the hit...though in that case I'd say just put it in the hit line. ...So in other words it's correct, don't worry, just making sure it was an intentional correctness and not the forum taking out space.

Anyway, more on the white mage because I love them in Final Fantasy;

White Prayer: Seems like a fairly standard healing power, not much to say here, though you may wish to make it close burst 5/10/15, and then target one creature in the burst, otherwise this provokes an attack of opportunity. If that's okay or even the intent, never mind, just most leader powers don't.

It was sort of intended. I think WM should be squishy and stay in the back. I can change it to standard leader format, but I just think this makes them different. Granted, it's a bad different in this case, but it does give them character. Also, what do you think of controller HP and surges for WM?


Encounter Powers
Flash: Personally a level 1 encounter power shouldn't give out save ends effect. Related...Blind is a really, really good condition, I wouldn't give it out at level 1. ...Or before say level 13 on encounter powers. (That being said Fighters get a level 3 Blind...but the power does no damage and is end of turn.) The damage is okay, though actually on the high end for a power you'd pick for the condition. Not sure if you want to change the condition, or change the level, or make it a daily, etc. (or just ignore me as well =P ).

I was having doubts about that one. I just took it from FFXI and adopted to 4E. I should change the effect, but I don't know what to pick.


Ivory Gifting and Glorious Rejuvenation have the same problem in my opinion, in that surgeless healing is really, really easy to abuse. It's less bad on dailies of course, but low level encounter powers are power jewel bait. In general healing powers at low levels let the target use a healing surge, and then as levels increase giving that healing a bonus is fine, but still need the target to use a surge (or maybe use your own, or something). Daily utilities are about the only powers I'd think surgeless based healing would be unable to be abused. Of course instead of actually healing, giving out temporary hit points has a similar effect without being abusable.

I can't say anything about those two, since they weren't mine.:smallwink:
I could change them to temporary HP, that can work.


Daily Powers
Fair warning, I'm pretty bad at judging daily powers compared to other types, given that I see various encounter powers and at-wills every fight, while dailies are well, less seen.

Dia: This seems good, my only question is that if a successful saving throw ends both effects? As written they're two different conditions, and that's fine if that's the intent, just making sure it was.

Two different conditions, two saves.


Inspiring Light: This seems good as well, the fact the bonus effects every ally is really, really powerful, but it's only +2, and it's a power bonus, and it's a short range for a squishy caster...sorry, mostly rambling here, I think in the end this power is fine.

It is a daily, so I don't think the area should be a problem.


Sacred Winds: This one seems a bit...bland. For just damage, it doesn't do nearly enough even with the large area. I'd increase the damage, or add an effect. Also just noting that Wind isn't a keyword in 4ed, but all the same it's probably worth adding for Final Fantasy. (For what it's worth a wind attack in 4ed would normally either not have a keyword...or I guess be Thunder. ...An actual Wind keyword might be nice.)

Yes, keywords.
Thunder will be renamed to Wind(to avoid the confusion with the BM spell).
Acid will be removed(or alternatively renamed to Earth).
Water and Earth will be added as damage types.
Force and Poison will probably be removed.
Psychic will remain, even if it was never part of FF it does fit well with some attacks, particularly Siren.


Utility
Basuna is probably too good for level 2 (maybe only let them save against one effect?), but otherwise these powers seem good, if mostly because they're dailies (and for the first two typed). I don't know, I need to play more leaders and controllers I think. XD

Even if it gives you no bonus to the saving throw?

Thank for the help.:smallwink:

Cloud
2014-02-25, 02:57 PM
You're very welcome for the help, just hope my help is actually good. ^^"

On the chassis of the white mage...I think the controller base fits the canon material, and there is some precedent for it in 4ed (Primal classes have the HP of their role stepped up, while the Arcane defender is missing healing surges, the shadow Assassin is a striker with controller hit points), but it's still...iffy. I think it can work, but they need some fairly substantial bonuses because of it. I would say use hit points between a leader and controller...but that just increases the base to 11 when rounding down, so...not sure it's even worth changing. XD Bonus skills are nice but mostly negligible (that being said, 5 skills in total, and a nice list, daaang :3 ), so it mostly depends on their class features. Which so far are actually looking pretty good. Seal and the choice of Purity or Protection is a nice combination and makes them really strong at their niche.

Mentioned the existing class features in my post above (though I edited them in so pointing it out in case you missed it), but with the controller hit points you could still do more. Not sure how well it fits the flavour, but I had this in mind (thinking of White Mages from Bravely Default, as well as just SOS abilities from FFIX and FFX).
Angelic Ward: While you are bloodied, you gain a +1 bonus to your defenses.

White Prayer being a proper ranged power I think is fitting, I just worry that when they have controller health, it might make them really squishy at what they should be good at. If this was 3.5 I'd give them a class feature to ignore attacks of opportunity when healing, which in 4ed can be done better by just changing how the targeting works. ...So, mixed opinion here, I think them being squishy and casting from the back is suitable, but I also think that a healer should be able to heal in the thick of combat.

For Flash...I was kind of hoping there was a dazzled condition in 4ed but apparently I've been playing too much 3.5. Dazed would still be really good, and not exactly fitting, but the closest appropriate condition I can think of.

On Basuna, if it was a standard action...I feel that one save against every effect, or one effect with a +2 bonus, is probably about right. As a minor action, yeah, I'd step it down to one effect with no bonus. With action economy and utility powers never being traded out; even if it only granted one save, a minor action encounter power...I'd be using that every single encounter from level 2 to 30. With it hitting all of them...well I don't even look at the other powers at that level. ...Though I might be bitter about save ends effects being used on me, so, 2 cents, pinch of salt, your mileage may vary, all those sayings.

Philemonite
2014-02-25, 03:29 PM
You're very welcome for the help, just hope my help is actually good. ^^"

On the chassis of the white mage...I think the controller base fits the canon material, and there is some precedent for it in 4ed (Primal classes have the HP of their role stepped up, while the Arcane defender is missing healing surges, the shadow Assassin is a striker with controller hit points), but it's still...iffy. I think it can work, but they need some fairly substantial bonuses because of it. I would say use hit points between a leader and controller...but that just increases the base to 11 when rounding down, so...not sure it's even worth changing. XD Bonus skills are nice but mostly negligible (that being said, 5 skills in total, and a nice list, daaang :3 ), so it mostly depends on their class features. Which so far are actually looking pretty good. Seal and the choice of Purity or Protection is a nice combination and makes them really strong at their niche.

I did play a little with surges(Geomancers get one more and Alchemists get one less), but WM is the only one that got "downgraded" for an entire role.
I think that extra trained skill is not negligible, as long as the DM is not combat only. I actually like skill challenges in 4E, as long as they are done well. I might add one more (minor) class feature, if I think of something. I will probably add a few more controller power at some point. I'm happy with class features, I hope I can do that for all the classes.


Mentioned the existing class features in my post above (though I edited them in so pointing it out in case you missed it), but with the controller hit points you could still do more. Not sure how well it fits the flavour, but I had this in mind (thinking of White Mages from Bravely Default, as well as just SOS abilities from FFIX and FFX).
Angelic Ward: While you are bloodied, you gain a +1 bonus to your defenses.
3DS, lucky you.:smallwink:
I think that would fit perfectly.
I will fix the wording for White Seal.:smallamused:


White Prayer being a proper ranged power I think is fitting, I just worry that when they have controller health, it might make them really squishy at what they should be good at. If this was 3.5 I'd give them a class feature to ignore attacks of opportunity when healing, which in 4ed can be done better by just changing how the targeting works. ...So, mixed opinion here, I think them being squishy and casting from the back is suitable, but I also think that a healer should be able to heal in the thick of combat.

So....:smallconfused::smallconfused::smalltongue:


For Flash...I was kind of hoping there was a dazzled condition in 4ed but apparently I've been playing too much 3.5. Dazed would still be really good, and not exactly fitting, but the closest appropriate condition I can think of.

Daze is the next best thing, but it's so ordinary. Almost every 4E class has some way of inflicting daze at level 1. OK, that might not actually be true, but that's how common it is.:smallwink:


On Basuna, if it was a standard action...I feel that one save against every effect, or one effect with a +2 bonus, is probably about right. As a minor action, yeah, I'd step it down to one effect with no bonus. With action economy and utility powers never being traded out; even if it only granted one save, a minor action encounter power...I'd be using that every single encounter from level 2 to 30. With it hitting all of them...well I don't even look at the other powers at that level. ...Though I might be bitter about save ends effects being used on me, so, 2 cents, pinch of salt, your mileage may vary, all those sayings.

Standard action, no bonus, every effect?

Cloud
2014-02-25, 04:00 PM
So...on White Prayer, either way works. XD When I give feedback, I try my best to just list options and suggestions, not just, here, do this. I suppose if you're wearing cloth and next to a big scary guy with a sword...you should be compelled to move away. =P So leave it as a ranged power I guess.

For Flash, yes, Daze is extremely ordinary. XD Just not sure what else to do with the power though short of changing its level and/or to a daily, sorry. ^^"

If Basuna was a standard action, yeah, I think it letting you save against every effect would be fair. Then it's a trade off of not attacking, to help fix up an ally under several conditions. (Plus it also makes the minor action powers of the same level more tempting, despite them being daily powers.)

Anyway, before I go and sleep, was looking over the races and ignoring that their powers aren't written up properly, while they all mention they're once per encounter, only the Moogle mentions the action type. So yeah, what's the action on Education, Dragonskin, and Vieran Accuracy? (Okay the last one I can guess based on what its based on, but still it doesn't hurt to be clear). Also the summoner has powers to critique, but I'm not entirely sure how it works. As far as I can tell though, all the powers are balanced to be level 1, and at level 1 you'd pick a summon which determines your encounter and daily power?

Philemonite
2014-02-25, 04:20 PM
So...on White Prayer, either way works. XD When I give feedback, I try my best to just list options and suggestions, not just, here, do this. I suppose if you're wearing cloth and next to a big scary guy with a sword...you should be compelled to move away. =P So leave it as a ranged power I guess.

Done.:smallwink:


For Flash, yes, Daze is extremely ordinary. XD Just not sure what else to do with the power though short of changing its level and/or to a daily, sorry. ^^"

I'll change it to daze and maybe change the name. Flash can still inflict blind, but as a higher level power. So, I'll probably get to it next year.:smalltongue:


If Basuna was a standard action, yeah, I think it letting you save against every effect would be fair. Then it's a trade off of not attacking, to help fix up an ally under several conditions. (Plus it also makes the minor action powers of the same level more tempting, despite them being daily powers.)

Originally, Basuna removes all negative effects that end after a battle, so it's basically lesser Esuna. Esuna can be a higher level utility that gives bonus to a saving throw.


Anyway, before I go and sleep, was looking over the races and ignoring that their powers aren't written up properly, while they all mention they're once per encounter, only the Moogle mentions the action type. So yeah, what's the action on Education, Dragonskin, and Vieran Accuracy? (Okay the last one I can guess based on what its based on, but still it doesn't hurt to be clear). Also the summoner has powers to critique, but I'm not entirely sure how it works. As far as I can tell though, all the powers are balanced to be level 1, and at level 1 you'd pick a summon which determines your encounter and daily power?

Education is no action(just like Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes), Dragonskin and Vieran Accuracy are minor actions.

At level one you pick a Edolon(or whatever you want to call it) and you get an encounter and daily. After that you need to make a pact with other Eidolons in order to get to use their powers. You are still limited on the number of powers the same way as other classes. Gaining new powers is slightly different. Instead of getting a new higher level power all of your powers of the same type improve by one step and you get a new level 1 power.
Lets say you pick Shiva and you get Heavenly Strike and Diamond Dust. At level 3 Heavenly Strike improves to level 3 and you get a new level 1 encounter power from an Eidolon you have befriended. At level 5 your Diamond Dust improves to level 5 and you get a new level 1 daily power from an Eidolon you have befriended. This way your primary Edolon's powers remain the most powerful.
I only wrote level 1 powers, but effects and damage improve with levels. There will be 7 versions of Diamond Dust, form level 1 to level 29.

Cloud
2014-02-26, 02:10 AM
Ah alright, makes sense. ...A lot of work because every Eidolon will need 14 powers (well, 2 sets of 7), though I guess it's not too bad as it's more just scaling up the same two powers over and over. Anyway, might as well look the summoner over then.

Chassis
I can understand why they're primal flavour wise, but generally primal classes are tougher than there non-primal counterparts. Also the support for a more caster archetype if you're lifting feats from 4e is stronger for the arcane power source ...Though I can't see just arcane or just divine fitting them, gah. ...I suppose you could go the way of some essential classes and give them two power sources? Make the Elemental and Dark pacts Arcane, while Divine would be Light? Or just ignore the whole primal = tougher thing and stick to primal...lots of rambling again with no clear answer, sorry, I'm good at that. =P

Abilities, hmm...maybe intelligence would fit as the secondary for the Elemental and Dark pacts, and Wisdom for the Light pact?

For implements, maybe not give them wands, but consider Orbs or Tomes? Using Orbs to control things, or ancient spirits being bound to Tomes, is fairly fitting (and in terms of 4e items, Orbs are the most 'controlling' implement, while Tomes are support/summoning implements).

On skills, they're automatically trained in Nature, but Nature is still on their list? Maybe I'm focusing on Summoners being caster thing too much, but I actually seem them having Arcana and Religion automatically, and then the choice of three more, so a total of 5, but still less flexible then say the white mage.

Elemental Pact is really weak, there are items that do the same thing pretty much, and you could just choose powers of your element as well if you wanted an elemental theme without items. Of course if those items don't exist, then this pact becomes much better, but still more striker orientated than controller. If being striker orientated is okay, and you want to keep this power, maybe also give out bonus elemental damage when they use the pact, like, change the damage type, and add...I don't know, + secondary modifier damage? Maybe twice secondary modifier damage at level 21 (though that's a really sharp increase, so maybe a scaling constant should be added instead). Dark pact...is mixed. If you're playing with a clause that save ends effects can never end sooner than a end of turn effect, then it's alright, not ultra powerful, but worth using. Otherwise though, save ends effects often end sooner than end of turn effects at higher levels, so that might be a downgrade. Maybe inflict a penalty to the next save they make to end the effect (2 + 1/2 secondary modifier or something perhaps).

Enlarged Summon needs an action, but otherwise I like this.

At-Wills
Does the at-will from your pact choice count against your limit of two? I know it does for the Warlock, but that's always annoyed me, and I don't think it would be particularly imbalanced to let a Summoner have three at-wills if one of them is locked to his pact.

Elemental Blast: A bit bland for a controller, though it's hard to argue that a ranged burst with nice damage is bad. I'm assuming this is the same type as your pact? Would the defense you target change on the elemental type?

Crippling Bolt: Immobilized is just an upgrade over slow, so there would be no reason to look at summons that grant slow, but that aside everyone is going to take the at-will daze, hands down. That's awesome and can't be done in 4ed short of epic tier with the right feat and power choices (which is still probably a design oversight with them not realizing how divine domains and martial hammer feats might combine).

On the other at-wills, do you have to pick a specific Eidolon for them, or can I just pick the ones I want? I see the keywords, but not sure how that works...

I'll get to the other powers later. ^^"

Philemonite
2014-02-26, 05:24 AM
Ah alright, makes sense. ...A lot of work because every Eidolon will need 14 powers (well, 2 sets of 7), though I guess it's not too bad as it's more just scaling up the same two powers over and over. Anyway, might as well look the summoner over then.

Exactly. Creating your own Edolons is also encouraged, provided that the DM agrees.


Chassis
I can understand why they're primal flavour wise, but generally primal classes are tougher than there non-primal counterparts. Also the support for a more caster archetype if you're lifting feats from 4e is stronger for the arcane power source ...Though I can't see just arcane or just divine fitting them, gah. ...I suppose you could go the way of some essential classes and give them two power sources? Make the Elemental and Dark pacts Arcane, while Divine would be Light? Or just ignore the whole primal = tougher thing and stick to primal...lots of rambling again with no clear answer, sorry, I'm good at that. =P

I never really understood why primal classes were tougher than the rest. It fits Warden, since they are a light armored defenders, so they should have extra HP, but it doesn't make sense for every primal class to have a HP boost. As for the feats, I will filter the existing feats at some point, making a list of feats that are compatible with this project. And I will add some extra feats, naturally. Arcane and Divine casters won't have a better feat support then Primal, every power source will be equal.


Abilities, hmm...maybe intelligence would fit as the secondary for the Elemental and Dark pacts, and Wisdom for the Light pact?

Makes sense.


For implements, maybe not give them wands, but consider Orbs or Tomes? Using Orbs to control things, or ancient spirits being bound to Tomes, is fairly fitting (and in terms of 4e items, Orbs are the most 'controlling' implement, while Tomes are support/summoning implements).

I am assuming you are referring to the Totems? That actually fits greatly.


On skills, they're automatically trained in Nature, but Nature is still on their list? Maybe I'm focusing on Summoners being caster thing too much, but I actually seem them having Arcana and Religion automatically, and then the choice of three more, so a total of 5, but still less flexible then say the white mage.

I don't know, I see summoners as the third primary caster, next to the white mage and black mage.
White mage-Religion
Black mage-Arcane
Summoner-Nature
That just makes sense in my head. I don't think summoners should be loremasters, I think that should be Oracle's role. Eidolons fall under Nature anyway.


Elemental Pact is really weak, there are items that do the same thing pretty much, and you could just choose powers of your element as well if you wanted an elemental theme without items. Of course if those items don't exist, then this pact becomes much better, but still more striker orientated than controller. If being striker orientated is okay, and you want to keep this power, maybe also give out bonus elemental damage when they use the pact, like, change the damage type, and add...I don't know, + secondary modifier damage? Maybe twice secondary modifier damage at level 21 (though that's a really sharp increase, so maybe a scaling constant should be added instead). Dark pact...is mixed. If you're playing with a clause that save ends effects can never end sooner than a end of turn effect, then it's alright, not ultra powerful, but worth using. Otherwise though, save ends effects often end sooner than end of turn effects at higher levels, so that might be a downgrade. Maybe inflict a penalty to the next save they make to end the effect (2 + 1/2 secondary modifier or something perhaps).

I was actually thinking of increasing the damage die by one step for Elemental Pact, but applying your Intelligence modifier does sound better. Elemental Pact should be about area damage.
Saves are already made at the end of a turn, so there isn't much you can do to get rid of a save ends condition before it is applied at least once. Still, it could add a save penalty at higher level, just to make it more useful.


Enlarged Summon needs an action, but otherwise I like this.

Minor action, of course.:smallwink:


At-Wills
Does the at-will from your pact choice count against your limit of two? I know it does for the Warlock, but that's always annoyed me, and I don't think it would be particularly imbalanced to let a Summoner have three at-wills if one of them is locked to his pact.

No, it's a class feature, so you get to pick two At-Will powers in addition to that one.


Elemental Blast: A bit bland for a controller, though it's hard to argue that a ranged burst with nice damage is bad. I'm assuming this is the same type as your pact? Would the defense you target change on the elemental type?

Yes, it is based on your pact.
I totally forgot to add that. Yes, the targeted defense is the same as your encounter/daily.


Crippling Bolt: Immobilized is just an upgrade over slow, so there would be no reason to look at summons that grant slow, but that aside everyone is going to take the at-will daze, hands down. That's awesome and can't be done in 4ed short of epic tier with the right feat and power choices (which is still probably a design oversight with them not realizing how divine domains and martial hammer feats might combine).

I will have to change Crippling Bolt completely. It will probably be slow/penalty to attack/penalty to defenses. There aren't many good conditions at level 1. I need to look through level 1 controller At-Wills to plagiarize get inspiration.


On the other at-wills, do you have to pick a specific Eidolon for them, or can I just pick the ones I want? I see the keywords, but not sure how that works...

I'll get to the other powers later. ^^"

You can pick any two lesser Eidolons to start with, but retraining requires you to gain favor of an appropriate Eidolon. Lesser Eidolons should be easy to get.

Cloud
2014-02-26, 08:56 AM
On ending save ends effects early...well, everything your White Mage can do? Monster leaders get similar mechanics, and some monsters save at the start of the turn like Wardens. By epic tier, saving throw ends is arguably less strong than end of next turn unless you can give out saving throw penalties. Then again if you don't make monsters with those mechanics, this pact gains more power. On the other at-wills.

Whispering Wind: At-will surgeless healing is a really bad idea. Granting temporary hit points is more appropriate, but the value is still really high. 1d6 + Charisma seems okay...but then items, enhancements, feats, and it's something like ~40 at higher levels. Not sure how much to lower this, but a scaling amount per tier + secondary stat seems appropriate. ...For the scaling I kind of want to say make it 1/3 level, which is awkward but stops the power being really good at level 1, 11, and 21, and bad at level 10, 20, and 30.

Constrict: Strictly better than Ray of Frost...but Ray of Frost isn't exactly a top tier power, so this is probably fine.

Cat Rain: Already pointed at that at-will dazing is probably too good, at least before epic, and even then without resource investment...

Earthen Wall: More leader than controller but that's not all bad, though I'd scale the bonus to +3 at epic tier if it's dependent on you hitting personally.

Shiva
Heavenly Strike: If this is only going to do damage, I'd actually bump it up slightly.
Diamond Dust: Very nice, though a daily power normally has a miss effect (half damage and slow maybe?).

...Just noticed they have a pattern that's mostly repeated. If you're going to have an encounter power that's area burst 1 in 10 that's just damage, even at level 1 I'd want to be throwing at least 2d8, and even then if I had a choice I wouldn't pick them on a controller. While on the daily powers, they should have miss effects, and again, immobilize is a better slow, and daze is probably the stronger condition.

Philemonite
2014-02-27, 12:32 PM
On ending save ends effects early...well, everything your White Mage can do? Monster leaders get similar mechanics, and some monsters save at the start of the turn like Wardens. By epic tier, saving throw ends is arguably less strong than end of next turn unless you can give out saving throw penalties. Then again if you don't make monsters with those mechanics, this pact gains more power. On the other at-wills.

But White Mage still needs to spend an action to remove the condition, so it at least costs one minor (or standard) action. Higher levels will be different, but I can always add scaling to the powers/class features once I get there. For now, I am focusing on level 1.


Whispering Wind: At-will surgeless healing is a really bad idea. Granting temporary hit points is more appropriate, but the value is still really high. 1d6 + Charisma seems okay...but then items, enhancements, feats, and it's something like ~40 at higher levels. Not sure how much to lower this, but a scaling amount per tier + secondary stat seems appropriate. ...For the scaling I kind of want to say make it 1/3 level, which is awkward but stops the power being really good at level 1, 11, and 21, and bad at level 10, 20, and 30.

1/3 level + Wisdom modifier temporary HP?
Also, what do you think of making a Light pact Summoner a Leader?
This power was intended for Light pact summoners.


Constrict: Strictly better than Ray of Frost...but Ray of Frost isn't exactly a top tier power, so this is probably fine.

Nice.:smallwink:


Cat Rain: Already pointed at that at-will dazing is probably too good, at least before epic, and even then without resource investment...

Would attack penalty make up for it?


Earthen Wall: More leader than controller but that's not all bad, though I'd scale the bonus to +3 at epic tier if it's dependent on you hitting personally.

Another one for the Light pact.:smallwink:


Shiva
Heavenly Strike: If this is only going to do damage, I'd actually bump it up slightly.
Diamond Dust: Very nice, though a daily power normally has a miss effect (half damage and slow maybe?).

...Just noticed they have a pattern that's mostly repeated. If you're going to have an encounter power that's area burst 1 in 10 that's just damage, even at level 1 I'd want to be throwing at least 2d8, and even then if I had a choice I wouldn't pick them on a controller. While on the daily powers, they should have miss effects, and again, immobilize is a better slow, and daze is probably the stronger condition.

I was actually thinking of higher damage, but I thought that would be too powerful.:smallamused:
Yes, encounter are area damage and daily are damage and effect.
Would higher damage on slow and lower damage on daze balance it out?

Edit: And now I feel like an idiot. I don't consider myself 4E experts. Still I have plenty of 4E knowledge, but I have never before heard of Tome implement. Worst thing is that I have access to AP, but I never read it completely. I never actually played an arcane class. Except for Bards. I never even read the Wizard section in the first PHB.

Cloud
2014-02-27, 04:21 PM
I think a Light Pact Summoner as a leader is quite fitting, there are more than a few Summoners that are also the game's White Mage in Final Fantasy in general, and clearly some summons themselves have a more supportive nature to them just in general.

1/3 level + Wisdom modifier temporary HP for Whispering Wind seems alright, yeah, just hope it's a nice balance of enough / not too much. On average that would start at 3 and scale to about 17 or so compared to 8 damage scaling to 38. Or on average stopping a bit less than half an average monster attack. Though it is at-will and if you have a defender you can estimate where hits are going to land, so it might be enough.

For Cat Rain, do you mean replacing the Daze with an attack penalty, or giving the power an attack penalty and keeping the condition? The former works, the latter...might? Though I couldn't see a penalty smaller than...-3 working, which is really only -1 still once you land it once. Though it would still worry me how it might combo with other things...

On the daily powers, yes there is some balance of range vs. damage vs. condition vs. miss effect that would balance the powers with each other...I'm just not sure what to suggest.

Philemonite
2014-02-27, 04:42 PM
I think a Light Pact Summoner as a leader is quite fitting, there are more than a few Summoners that are also the game's White Mage in Final Fantasy in general, and clearly some summons themselves have a more supportive nature to them just in general.

I think I'll save that for a creative block, right now I am having so much fun working on Geomancer.:smallwink:


1/3 level + Wisdom modifier temporary HP for Whispering Wind seems alright, yeah, just hope it's a nice balance of enough / not too much. On average that would start at 3 and scale to about 17 or so compared to 8 damage scaling to 38. Or on average stopping a bit less than half an average monster attack. Though it is at-will and if you have a defender you can estimate where hits are going to land, so it might be enough.

Than that's settled.


For Cat Rain, do you mean replacing the Daze with an attack penalty, or giving the power an attack penalty and keeping the condition? The former works, the latter...might? Though I couldn't see a penalty smaller than...-3 working, which is really only -1 still once you land it once. Though it would still worry me how it might combo with other things...

I was thinking the former. I can't think of any power that has a penalty attack, but I know plenty of powers that have attack bonus (I think there's a fighter at-will in the original PHB).
How about removing the damage and -2 attack penalty?


On the daily powers, yes there is some balance of range vs. damage vs. condition vs. miss effect that would balance the powers with each other...I'm just not sure what to suggest.

I would like to keep the area the same because of the Enlarged Summon and range should probably stay the same. So, slow gets a damage boost and daze gets a damage reduction?
And then I am still left with Dark Pact summons.
Well, at least I got a theme.:smalltongue:


How does this sound for a Geomancer encounter?

Nature's Wrath
Encounter - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. Next time the targeted enemy uses an attack that doesn't include you as a target the enemy takes damage equal to your Constitution modifier.

They are supposed to be a secondary Defenders.

Cloud
2014-02-27, 05:58 PM
On powers having attack penalties, Martial Power has a few of them...though in general they're rare because they're a bad idea, and I can't think of an at-will that has one. Anyway I have a few takes on Cat Rain, use them as you will, even if it's just for ideas on how to do your own.

This first one is focusing on Cait Sith being a trickster / the ability it has sometimes to cause confusion.
Cat Rain
Calling upon the power of Cait Sith, you leave your enemy confused, the target staggering and unable to defend himself.
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Cait Sith
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage, and slide the target up to 1 square. The target until the end of your next turn grants combat advantage and cannot make opportunity attacks.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d10 + Charisma modifier, and increase the slide distance to 2 squares.

This one would be more focusing on stopping the enemy from attack though, so basically just an attack penalty.
Cat Rain
Calling upon the power of Cait Sith, you sap the strength of an enemy, leaving them unable to counter-attack.
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Cait Sith
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to attacks rolls until the end of your next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Charisma modifier, and increase attack penalty to -3.

On the Summon daily powers, so all ranged 10 and burst 1 still, these might work?

If the condition is Daze;
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.

If the condition is Immobilize;
Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is immobilized until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.

If the condition is Slow;
Hit: 3d6 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is slowed (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.

I have no idea if any of that is remotely balanced to reflect the power between the conditions, but some food for thought perhaps.

Nature's Wrath seems solid for a level 1 power, a good 2 [W] hit with some minor defender flavour control.

Philemonite
2014-02-28, 05:05 AM
On powers having attack penalties, Martial Power has a few of them...though in general they're rare because they're a bad idea, and I can't think of an at-will that has one. Anyway I have a few takes on Cat Rain, use them as you will, even if it's just for ideas on how to do your own.

This first one is focusing on Cait Sith being a trickster / the ability it has sometimes to cause confusion.
Cat Rain
Calling upon the power of Cait Sith, you leave your enemy confused, the target staggering and unable to defend himself.
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Cait Sith
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage, and slide the target up to 1 square. The target until the end of your next turn grants combat advantage and cannot make opportunity attacks.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d10 + Charisma modifier, and increase the slide distance to 2 squares.

This one would be more focusing on stopping the enemy from attack though, so basically just an attack penalty.
Cat Rain
Calling upon the power of Cait Sith, you sap the strength of an enemy, leaving them unable to counter-attack.
At-Will - Primal, Implement, Cait Sith
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to attacks rolls until the end of your next turn.
Level 21: Increase the damage to 2d8 + Charisma modifier, and increase attack penalty to -3.

I like the first one better.:smallwink:


On the Summon daily powers, so all ranged 10 and burst 1 still, these might work?

If the condition is Daze;
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.

If the condition is Immobilize;
Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is immobilized until the end of your next turn.
Miss: Half damage.

If the condition is Slow;
Hit: 3d6 + Charisma modifier X type damage, and the target is slowed (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.

I have no idea if any of that is remotely balanced to reflect the power between the conditions, but some food for thought perhaps.

So, daze and immobilize are until the end of your next turn and slow is save ends on hit and until the end of your next turn on a miss?
Interesting.


Nature's Wrath seems solid for a level 1 power, a good 2 [W] hit with some minor defender flavour control.

I am thinking a Constitution secondary defenderish build that uses weapons(axes) and an Intelligence secondary controllerish build that uses implements(totems). I'm still not sure what Geomancy will do.
Adding a marking mechanic on a Leader would be weird, right?
I know Bards can mark for others with their Misdirected Mark, so it's possible.

Cloud
2014-02-28, 02:30 PM
It's a little weird perhaps, but the Paladin is arguably a leader with a mark. XD =P The Bard of course as you said has that at-will, and I'm certain there are paragon paths they grant marks too, and not just for defenders (I think the Warlord). Then there are hybrids as well, so, it's not too out of line. In itself a mark isn't that strong, just a conditional -2 to attack rolls, it's what they can do with that mark that matters.

A know you're working on the Geomancer now, but while I'm reading everything you have in more detail, I'll throw out this (focusing on things you have question marks next to), and then focus on that class.
Bard: Only light armour is fitting, and balanced so long as the secondary stats remain Intelligence of Dexterity. Definitely they need instruments as implements, and wands I think fit. Only 2 implement types from a balance point of view is fairly...meh, and it probably wouldn't hurt to let them use rods. Though you could also let them use some weapons as implements, beyond just Song Blades. The weapon proficiencies are a bit shallow, if fitting, and I think 6 total skills (so bluff + 5) is probably fine.

Thief: Considering that Dashing Strike only works on melee attacks, and you must move before the attack, I think adding your primary attribute to damage would be fine, even when it targets Reflex as a weapon attack. I realize on paper that's strictly better than what a 4e Rogue could do, but a melee Rogue using Acrobatic Strike or Piercing Strike after feat support is still scarier, and an at-will needs to be better than just charging.

Dancer: As you said in your own words, this is still a bit of a mess, so I'll just mention again that surgeless healing is bad outside of daily powers, and Temporal Samba gives a lot of free shifting, like, damn. XD I'll leave this and the other classes and powers alone though to take a look at the Geomancer though.

Geomancer
Chassis: On the armour proficiencies, you could remove chain, and instead give the constitution secondary Geomancers a class feature to replace their int mod with their con mod while using light armour. Nothing wrong with making them use chain mail though, just thought it might fit the nature-ish class better. For the weapon proficiency, was it intentional to include superior axes? I mean that wouldn't be that OP (though pretty freaking sweet), but it might be odd they can only use simple weapons, and then axes not even weapon masters can without training. Totems aren't a poor implement, but it might be nice to try and include another. Would staffs fit? ...And if that clashed with using a proper melee weapon, well...ki focuses and holy symbols are slotless, but I don't know if they fit...possibly they could use a select weapon as an implement though? More rambling on the implement, sorry. XD It's not that totems are bad, they're just a shallow pool to pick from.

Nature's Breath: Perfectly standard healing power here for a leader, not much else to say. XD Though the possibility remains to reduce the healing by a d6 and add another effect to represent being invigorated by nature. (Bonus to defenses or saves perhaps?) ...Or I could be smart and read the class features first, durr. =P You could still do something like this if just 1d6 -> 6d6 felt boring, though the existence of those class features makes it much less needed.

Class Features: One With The Nature could probably be a +1 bonus per tier and still not be overpowered. Really good by epic, but not overpowered. I mean the Warden in 4ed is saving twice per condition at level 1, that's basically at least +5, ignoring the chance to never be effected by the condition. Adaptable just sounds neat all round, not sure how effective it is, but it's certainly fitting. Shielding Geomancy is basically useless compared to Crippling Geomancy. I'd probably lower the bonus on Crippling Geomancy to 2 + half int mod, and Shielding Geomancy needs a large boost. Adjusting the feature 6 times is a bit awkward to me, but it still lines up with the healing portion of the power and is less spiky than a tier based boost, anyway, maybe something like; Con Mod +1, increasing to +4 at level 6, +7 at level 11, +10 at level 16, + 13 at level 21, and +16 at level 26. ...Or I just realized you could go Con Mod + 1 + half level *shrugs*.

I'll get to the powers later. =)

Edit: Or some even now, if slowly, I can't sleep...

Wind Slash: For a class that uses axes as there weapon, I'd probably make the base damage 1d10. That rather strange reason aside they're leader primaries so push 2 is less useful on them. Also again I'm a fan of upgrading the utility of at-will powers at epic tier even if in general it's odd in 4e and would bump the push to 3 at level 21.

Fissure: Again, if on average their weapon attacks will be doing 1d10 or more, I'd probably make the at-will do at least 1d10 damage. Though the same as above there is also the excuse that it's a slow on a leader, they might need some encouragement to take it.

Force of Nature: Weapon attack against a NAD that grants you THP, very solid. I'd consider making the temporary hit points being able to go to you, or an adjacent ally, for just a bit more utility, but it's not really needed, this power is good either way.

Magnetic Force: ...Might need clearer wording, yes. What is the intent of this power, to attack one target in melee or draw in a secondary target closer? Also I'll point out now that weapon attacks that don't target AC are generally the exception, not the rule, and is nearly the same as writing +2 to hit into a power giving the lower value of NADs and weapon proficiency bonuses.

Philemonite
2014-02-28, 03:47 PM
It's a little weird, but the Paladin is arguable a leader with a mark. XD =P The Bard of course as you said has that at-will. I am certain there are paragon paths they grant marks too, and not just for defenders (I think the Warlord). Then there are hybrids as well, so, it's not too out of line. In itself a mark isn't that strong, just a conditional -2 to attack rolls, it's what they can do with that mark that matters.

I actually made a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334243) in 4e section and got a lot of useful ideas there.


A know you're working on the Geomancer now, but while I'm reading everything you have in more detail, I'll throw out this (focusing on things you have question marks next to), and then focus on that class.

I can always use some feedback on the chassis, it's better to adapt it before I actually start working on the class.


Bard: Only light armour is fitting, and balanced so long as the secondary stat remains Intelligence of Dexterity. Definitely they need instruments as implements, and wands I think fit. Only 2 implement types from a balance point of view is fairly...meh, and it probably wouldn't hurt to let them use rods. Though you could also let them use some weapons as implements, beyond just Song Blades. The weapon proficiencies are a bit shallow, if fitting, and I think 6 total skills (so bluff + 5) is probably fine.

The problem is that bards are a martial class, so I don't know if any implement would be fitting, beyond instruments.
I might add an extra weapon or a two, if I think of something that would suit them. I don't think they need ranged weapons, they will have implement builds for ranged attacks.
Yay, skillmonkeys.:smalltongue:


Thief: Considering that Dashing Strike only works on melee attacks, and you must move before the attack, I think adding your primary attribute to damage would be fine, even when it targets Reflex as a weapon attack. I realize on paper that's strictly better than what a 4e Rogue could do, but a melee Rogue using Acrobatic Strike or Piercing Strike after feat support is still scarier, and an at-will needs to be better than just charging.

I might turn that into a class feature, I really like it, thief should be all about mobility.


Dancer: As you said in your own words, this is still a bit of a mess, so I'll just mention again that surgeless healing is bad outside of daily powers, and Temporal Samba gives a lot of free shifting, like, damn. XD I'll leave this and the other classes and powers alone though to take a look at the Geomancer though.

I will probably need to star from scratch with dancer, but ally shifting and forced movement will be a big part of dancer's powers.


Geomancer
Chassis: On the armour proficiencies, you could remove chain, and instead give the constitution secondary Geomancers a class feature to replace their int mod with their con mod while using light armour. Nothing wrong with making them use chain mail though, just thought it might fit the nature-ish class better. For the weapon proficiency, was it intentional to include superior axes? I mean that wouldn't be that OP (though pretty freaking sweet), it might be odd they can only use simple weapons, and then axes not even weapon masters can without training. Totems aren't a bad implement, but it might be nice to try and include another. Would staffs fit? ...And if that clashed with using a proper melee weapon, well...ki focuses and holy symbols are slotless, but I don't know if they fit...possibly they could use a select weapon as an implement though? More rambling on the implement, sorry. XD It's not just that totems are bad, it's just a shallow pool to pick from.

That sounds interesting, but I would have to give Int Geomancers something else.
They use axes in tactics, so I think they should have access to all axes. I will do some weapon homebrewing (add a few katanas for Samurai, remove some unFF weapons) so that should bring back some balance. I think almost every class should have one or two preferred weapon types.
That shouldn't be a problem since I will make a few totems that fit the Geomancer, to make them more viable. Also, some existing weapons/implements will be considered incompatible, to make all implements equal.


Nature's Breath: Perfectly standard healing power here for a leader, not much else to say. XD Though the possibility remains to reduce the healing by a d6 and add another effect to represent being invigorated by nature. (Bonus to defenses or saves perhaps?) ...Or I could be smart and read the class features first, durr. =P You could still do something like this if just 1d6 -> 6d6 felt boring, though the existence of those class features makes it much less needed.

I was actually thinking to add a feat that add a saving throw to Nature's Breath.:smallamused:


Class Features: One With The Nature could probably be a +1 bonus per tier and still not be overpowered. Really good by epic, but not overpowered. I mean the Warden in 4ed is saving twice per condition at level 1, that's basically at least +5, ignoring the chance to never be effected by the condition. Adaptable just sounds neat all round, not sure how effective it is, but it's certainly fitting. Shielding Geomancy is basically useless compared to Crippling Geomancy. I'd probably lower the bonus on Crippling Geomancy to 2 + half int mod, and Shielding Geomancy needs a large boost. Adjusting the feature 6 times is a bit awkward to me, but it still lines up with the healing portion of the power and is less spiky than a tier based boost, anyway, maybe something like; Con Mod +1, increasing to +4 at level 6, +7 at level 11, +10 at level 16, + 13 at level 21, and +16 at level 26. ...Or I just realized you could go Con Mod + 1 + half level *shrugs*.

All numbers can be changed, I just didn't want to write +x bonus.:smalltongue:
What matters is the concept, so a bonus to saving throw, since they have stronger inner balance.
Adaptable was just a funny idea, I don't thing it will see much use, but it goes well with the theme. I think it needs a better name.
Like I said, numbers can change, I just want the Geomancy to provide a bonus based on a secondary ability.


Wind Slash: For a class that uses axes as there weapon, I'd probably make the base damage 1d10. That rather strange reason aside they're leader primaries so push 2 is less useful on them. Also again I'm a fan of upgrading the utility of at-will powers at epic tier even if in general it's odd in 4e and would bump the push to 3 at level 21.

That was intended for crippling Geomancers, that are secondary controllers.


Fissure: Again, if on average their weapon attacks will be doing 1d10 or more, I'd probably make the at-will do at least 1d10 damage. Though the same as above there is also the excuse that it's a slow on a leader, they might need some encouragement to take it.

Same as the above, adding some control. Although I should probably change one to a real leader power.:smalltongue:


Force of Nature: Weapon attack against a NAD that grants you THP, very solid. I'd consider making the temporary hit points being able to go to you, or an adjacent ally, for just a bit more utility, but it's not really needed, this power is good either way.

That can work.


Magnetic Force: ...Might need clearer wording, yes. What is the intent of this power, to attack one target in melee or draw in a secondary target closer? Also I'll point out now that weapon attacks that don't target AC are generally the exception, not the rule, and is nearly the same as writing +2 to hit into a power giving the lower value of NADs and weapon proficiency bonuses.

Yes, attack one enemy, pull another.
I guess I can make this one AC based, since the effect triggers even if the attack misses.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 07:58 AM
Hmm, well, I'll have a few takes on Magnetic Force, the first just being rewording yours, though personally I think forced movement, particularly on an at-will, should require you to hit.

Magnetic Force
At-Will - Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Level 21: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Effect: Select an enemy creature within 5 squares of yourself that you can see. That creature is pulled 2 squares.

Magnetic Force
At-Will - Primal, Weapon
You strike at a foe, and calling upon the magnetism of the earth draw another towards you.
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom +2 vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage. Make a Secondary Attack against one enemy in close burst 5.
Level 21: 2[W] damage.
- Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs. Fort
- Hit: Constitution modifier damage, and the target is pulled 2 + 1/2 Constitution modifier squares.

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 08:12 AM
I like the second one, better attack with less damage, perfect.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 08:39 AM
Well, it has a better attack because the pull effect not only requires an attack roll itself (though thanks to the weapon keyword and targeting fort that's also a bit more accurate), but needs you to hit on the first attack to even make it. ...I was right in assuming it was for the con based Geomancers, right? I mean forced movement is control, but it was a short range pull so I assumed for defenders instead. Anyway, looking at some more powers~

Earthen Strike: Seems pretty solid, though I'd increase the AC bonus to +2 at level 21.

Nature's Blessing: I think I'd make this target AC, reduce the damage to 1[W], and make the Shielding Attack Bonus 2 + 1/2 Con mod. I know the power is basically comparable to Warlord's Favour...but that's a really good power, like, Tactical Warlords can still use it at level 30 good.

Will o' the Wisp: Not bad, just odd, low level encounter powers probably shouldn't have save or ends. You could make the power add intelligence to damage as well as wisdom instead perhaps?

Mud Blast: Not bad, but I think the damage or the range could probably be improved safely.

Water Surge: I know there are plenty of powers that can push as far the crippling rider effect can...but I think how quickly it scales is a bit absurd, and like with Nature's Blessing, would make this 2 + 1/2 Int mod.

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 09:24 AM
Well, it has a better attack because the pull effect not only requires an attack roll itself (though thanks to the weapon keyword and targeting fort that's also a bit more accurate), but needs you to hit on the first attack to even make it. ...I was right in assuming it was for the con based Geomancers, right? I mean forced movement is control, but it was a short range pull so I assumed for defenders instead. Anyway, looking at some more powers~

Earthen Strike: Seems pretty solid, though I'd increase the AC bonus to +2 at level 21.

Cool.


Nature's Blessing: I think I'd make this target AC, reduce the damage to 1[W], and make the Shielding Attack Bonus 2 + 1/2 Con mod. I know the power is basically comparable to Warlord's Favour...but that's a really good power, like, Tactical Warlords can still use it at level 30 good.

1[W] sounds a bit low for encounter power.


Will o' the Wisp: Not bad, just odd, low level encounter powers probably shouldn't have save or ends. You could make the power add intelligence to damage as well as wisdom instead perhaps?

Actually, I was thinking of changing it to a daily power and adding a little more damage.


Mud Blast: Not bad, but I think the damage or the range could probably be improved safely.

Then I will up the damage, since it should be short range.
I actually reduced the damage because of the prone effect.


Water Surge: I know there are plenty of powers that can push as far the crippling rider effect can...but I think how quickly it scales is a bit absurd, and like with Nature's Blessing, would make this 2 + 1/2 Int mod.

That's doable.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 09:50 AM
It would make the damage on Nature's Blessing low for a level 1 encounter power, yes, but the effect currently is basically add +5 to +9 to that daily that has to hit, and that...well yeah isn't a level 1 encounter effect. *Shrugs.*

2d8 or 2d10 probably fits Mud Blast, just a 5 square ranged prone leaves the enemy the option of stand up and charge, which is why I felt it could afford to do some decent damage.

What's the range on both daily powers?

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 11:39 AM
It would make the damage on Nature's Blessing low for a level 1 encounter power, yes, but the effect currently is basically add +5 to +9 to that daily that has to hit, and that...well yeah isn't a level 1 encounter effect. *Shrugs.*

You are right, the effect should make up for it.


2d8 or 2d10 probably fits Mud Blast, just a 5 square ranged prone leaves the enemy the option of stand up and charge, which is why I felt it could afford to do some decent damage.

I'll go with 2d8, I don't want to make it too powerful.


What's the range on both daily powers?

I didn't even see I forgot to add that, range is 10 squares on both.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 12:04 PM
Hrmm...my first reaction is that El Niño might do too much damage...but it does have no effect on a miss... Sorry, this is me rambling again, but I think in the end I'm erring on the side of slightly too much damage. (Maybe 3d8 instead, or make an unfriendly burst, I don't know.)

Sandstorm...is probably okay given that's it's friendly. -2 on attack rolls isn't bad or anything, just a bit average on a daily, though the damage is already on the high end. (Admittedly the vast majority of daily powers in 4e don't deal enough damage, in that even most striker daily powers if they don't include multiple attacks lose to twin strike. >.>)

Will o' the Wisp would be more striker, while El Niño and Sandstorm is more control, any leader-ish daily powers?

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 12:43 PM
Hrmm...my first reaction is that El Niño might do too much damage...but it does have no effect on a miss... Sorry, this is me rambling again, but I think in the end I'm erring on the side of slightly too much damage. (Maybe 3d8 instead, or make an unfriendly burst, I don't know.)

I'll make it unfriendly, to make it different than Sandstorm.


Sandstorm...is probably okay given that's it's friendly. -2 on attack rolls isn't bad or anything, just a bit average on a daily, though the damage is already on the high end. (Admittedly the vast majority of daily powers in 4e don't deal enough damage, in that even most striker daily powers if they don't include multiple attacks lose to twin strike. >.>)

No twin strike here.:smalltongue:


Will o' the Wisp would be more striker, while El Niño and Sandstorm is more control, any leader-ish daily powers?

I noticed that, this leader really needs some leader powers.:smalltongue:


Since my creativity is drained at the moment, I am going through the books to filter the feats. Just the heroic tier for now.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 12:58 PM
For what it's worth while you're doing feats, here are a few feats (some homebrewed, others just changed) that I use when I DM. ...Ah, I have lot more feats that I've tweaked in either direction for balance, but until I know if you're even going to use the original 4e feat in your game or not, might as well not spam this thread too much.

Adjusted Common Heroic Feats
Power Attack (PHB pg. 199):
The minus 2 penalty is to AC, not attack rolls. The bonus to damage is a power bonus, not untyped. Reduce the standard damage to 1/2/3, and the two-handed damage to 2/4/6.
While possibly seen as a nerf to power attack, changing the penalty to AC makes the feat much more usable. In the standard case, this feat is now worth taking, and in the niche cases, reducing the bonus and typing it makes it much less easy to abuse.

Toughness (PHB pg. 201, HotFL pg. 319, HotFK pg. 320): replace the benefit line with;
Benefit: You gain additional hit points equal to half your level, increasing to 5 + half level at level 11 and 10 + half level at level 21. Your number of healing surges increases by 1, increasing to 2 at level 11 and 3 at level 21. You gain a +2 feat bonus to your healing surge value, the bonus increases to +4 at level 11 and to +6 at level 21.
Toughness provided too much raw health at low levels, but didn't scale very well. The scaling was increased, and several other HP related feats were rolled into toughness to make it more appealing.

Two-Weapon Fighting (PHB pg. 201, HotFL pg. 319, HotFK pg. 320):
The bonus is now a power bonus, however it increases to +2 at level 11 and +3 at 21.
Untyped static bonuses are too powerful, but at the same time this feat felt rather lacking.

New Feats
Elemental Focus
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose two damage types from the following list; acid, cold, fire, lightning, necrotic, psychic, radiant, thunder. Gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use an attack with one of those key words. Increase the damage to +3 at level 11, and to +4 at level 21.
Creating a general feat instead of improving several feats like Astral Fire was mostly to save room. This feat is to provide a solid base for any elemental build. The option to pick two is to make up for the fact the feat does nothing else like the single elemental feats from HotEC do.
...Ah, change the keywords here as needed if you use this one.

Focused Attack
Heroic Tier
Benefit: If you have not yet acted on your turn, you may for every base damage die a power has beyond the first 2 gain a +2 bonus its damage rolls. If a power has 5 or more base damage die, gain a +4 bonus to damage (for die 3 and 4), and gain an additional +3 bonus to damage rolls for each die beyond the 4th. If a power has 7 or more base damage die, gain a +10 bonus to damage (for die 3, 4, 5, and 6), and gain an additional +4 to damage rolls for each die beyond the 7th. For example a 5[W] power would gain +7 damage, while a 10d10 power would gain +26 damage. If you elect to gain this bonus, your turn immediately ends after using the power, except for being able to make free actions (including using an action point), and you cannot move as part of the power.
This feat while appearing powerful, has to compete with multi-attack powers and charging. This feat is still probably on the weak side, particularly with its drawback, but if you use large [W] powers, it should be a powerful alternative to just charge spamming.

Versatile Focus
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose a weapon group and an implement type. You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls both when using a weapon from the chosen group and when using an implement of the chosen type. The bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take this feat, choose a different weapon group and a different implement type.
If a feat is only going to provide a +3 feat damage bonus, it should apply to all your attacks, as is most people will use elemental attacks to gain +4 to all of their attacks, but this was left for possible niche builds that need it.

Weapon Training
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose one weapon (not weapon group, a single weapon). Gain proficiency with that weapon, and when you use it as part of an attack gain a +2 feat bonus to the damage roll. Increase the damage to +3 at 11th level, and to +4 at 21st level.
This is to create a generic feat to lighten the feat load of strikers, and provide a useful option for non-strikers to increase their damage.
Just to clarify that this would work with implement powers if you use the weapon you selected as your implement.

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 01:33 PM
For what it's worth while you're doing feats, here are a few feats (some homebrewed, others just changed) that I use when I DM. ...Ah, I have lot more feats that I've tweaked in either direction for balance, but until I know if you're even going to use the original 4e feat in your game or not, might as well not spam this thread too much.

I am skipping all racial/class feats, and taking most of what is left. Tweak ideas are always appreciated, as well as any new feat.
I am going through PHBs first, and then power books.


Adjusted Common Heroic Feats
Power Attack (PHB pg. 199):
The minus 2 penalty is to AC, not attack rolls. The bonus to damage is a power bonus, not untyped. Reduce the standard damage to 1/2/3, and the two-handed damage to 2/4/6.
While possibly seen as a nerf to power attack, changing the penalty to AC makes the feat much more usable. In the standard case, this feat is now worth taking, and in the niche cases, reducing the bonus and typing it makes it much less easy to abuse.

I love, I always thought that Power Attack is useless, I would never sacrifice attack for a few points of damage. This actually makes it useful.


Toughness (PHB pg. 201, HotFL pg. 319, HotFK pg. 320): replace the benefit line with;
Benefit: You gain additional hit points equal to half your level, increasing to 5 + half level at level 11 and 10 + half level at level 21. Your number of healing surges increases by 1, increasing to 2 at level 11 and 3 at level 21. You gain a +2 feat bonus to your healing surge value, the bonus increases to +4 at level 11 and to +6 at level 21.
Toughness provided too much raw health at low levels, but didn't scale very well. The scaling was increased, and several other HP related feats were rolled into toughness to make it more appealing.

With possible exception of pathfinder version, toughness has always sucked.
This sound a little more powerful than a standard feat, but not too much.
I guess Durable is now useless.:smallamused:


Two-Weapon Fighting (PHB pg. 201, HotFL pg. 319, HotFK pg. 320):
The bonus is now a power bonus, however it increases to +2 at level 11 and +3 at 21.
Untyped static bonuses are too powerful, but at the same time this feat felt rather lacking.

Sounds good.


New Feats
Elemental Focus
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose two damage types from the following list; earth, water, cold, fire, lightning, necrotic, psychic, radiant, wind. Gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls when you use an attack with one of those key words. Increase the damage to +3 at level 11, and to +4 at level 21.
Creating a general feat instead of improving several feats like Astral Fire was mostly to save room. This feat is to provide a solid base for any elemental build. The option to pick two is to make up for the fact the feat does nothing else like the single elemental feats from HotEC do.
...Ah, change the keywords here as needed if you use this one.

Fixed.:smallamused:
I was thinking of doing something about elemental feats, and this sounds good.
Maybe I should give Summoners and Black Mages this feat for free?
What about the prerequisites?


Focused Attack
Heroic Tier
Benefit: If you have not yet acted on your turn, you may for every base damage die a power has beyond the first 2 gain a +2 bonus its damage rolls. If a power has 5 or more base damage die, gain a +4 bonus to damage (for die 3 and 4), and gain an additional +3 bonus to damage rolls for each die beyond the 4th. If a power has 7 or more base damage die, gain a +10 bonus to damage (for die 3, 4, 5, and 6), and gain an additional +4 to damage rolls for each die beyond the 7th. For example a 5[W] power would gain +7 damage, while a 10d10 power would gain +26 damage. If you elect to gain this bonus, your turn immediately ends after using the power, except for being able to make free actions (including using an action point), and you cannot move as part of the power.
This feat while appearing powerful, has to compete with multi-attack powers and charging. This feat is still probably on the weak side, particularly with its drawback, but if you use large [W] powers, it should be a powerful alternative to just charge spamming.

This sounds interesting. It can combine very well with Battlemind.:smallwink:


Versatile Focus
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose a weapon group and an implement type. You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage rolls both when using a weapon from the chosen group and when using an implement of the chosen type. The bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take this feat, choose a different weapon group and a different implement type.
If a feat is only going to provide a +3 feat damage bonus, it should apply to all your attacks, as is most people will use elemental attacks to gain +4 to all of their attacks, but this was left for possible niche builds that need it.

It does have an advantage over elemental focus, it can be used with any power. Perfect for a class like Geomancer that has weapon and implement builds.


Weapon Training
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose one weapon (not weapon group, a single weapon). Gain proficiency with that weapon, and when you use it as part of an attack gain a +2 feat bonus to the damage roll. Increase the damage to +3 at 11th level, and to +4 at 21st level.
This is to create a generic feat to lighten the feat load of strikers, and provide a useful option for non-strikers to increase their damage.
Just to clarify that this would work with implement powers if you use the weapon you selected as your implement.

I consider a weapon proficiency a waste of a feat, but this is very nice.

Cloud
2014-03-01, 02:07 PM
Power Attack being useless was the main reason I changed it, yes. XD If you do end up going through PHB3, Power Throw should be adjusted in a similar manner. Toughness might be very slightly over-tuned, but remember a large chunk of the scaling is based on your level, and a feat getting full power at level 30 is much different compared to gaining its full power at level 21. Durable being useless isn't necessarily a bad thing. =P (In games with that version of Toughness I just...delete Durable, I don't try and give it a niche.) Elemental Focus doesn't have prerequisites on purpose, it's not even pretending to be balanced with the elemental feats in the PHB, but is instead on the level of Silvery Glow, Burning Vapors, Fiery Blood, Icy Heart, Lightning Soul, and Thunder's Rumble. Elemental Focus was basically my lazy way of not having to buff Astral Fire, Burning Blizzard, Dark Fury, or Raging Storm, and also not have to homebrew a feat for every other possible combination. Focused Attack was actually aimed at Barbarians if they want to use a 9[W] daily and not hit for less damage then a double hit encounter power. XD Battleminds aside from being mobile I thought tended to rely on relatively low weapon dice powers, like Lightning Rush, Brilliant Recovery, and Brutal Barrage. Remember on Versatile Focus that my little comment is assuming that a weapon/implement user will use an elemental weapon (also an implement) to make all their attacks the same element and then pick an elemental feat, but yes exists as a niche feat for say a class like Geomancer. On weapon training that was basically the idea, that weapon proficiency was generally a waste of a feat. It's also another example of me being slightly lazy and not home-brewing a racial weapon feat like Githzerai Blade Master for every single race. Plus it would allow say in 4e a Swordmage to not need Weapon Focus and Implement Focus.

A few more PHB feats that I've changed for my own game. Remember though that this was balancing for within 4e in general, and with less options in general these changes might seem too good, so, use them as you will. (And the Nimble Blade change is actually a nerf, might as well point that out.)

Action Surge (PHB pg. 193):
Increase the bonus to +4, but type it as a power bonus.
While still an okay feat, it hadn't age very well with the rest of 4ed. Typing the bonus reduces its impact on nova turns however.

Blade Opportunist (PHB pg. 194):
Remove the prerequisites. Increase the bonus to +3.
This change slightly increases the feat, but most defenders are going to want to pick more reliable ways to keep targets next to them regardless.

Combat Reflexes (PHB pg. 194):
Remove the prerequisites. Increase the bonus to +2.
This feat is still very weak, but might fit into a niche build now, maybe.

Fast Runner (PHB pg. 195):
Delete the prerequisite.
This feat probably still isn't worth taking, but removing the prerequisite might open it up to some niche builds.

Human Perseverance (PHB pg. 198):
Increase the bonus to +3.
This is to make the feat more useful than the no prerequisite focused resilience.

Long Jumper (PHB pg. 198):
Increase the feat bonus to the skill to +2.
This feat probably still isn't worth taking, but if you make the choice to take a flavourful feat, it should still be somewhat useful in its niche.

Nimble Blade (PHB pg. 198):
You do not gain this bonus if you charge.
A feat that needs you to make use of combat advantage feels wrong to use on a charge...and this feats makes charging with a rapier better than most weapons.

Ritual Caster (PHB pg. 200): replace the feat with;
Ritual Caster
Heroic Tier
Benefit: You can master and perform rituals of your level or lower. You master three level 1 (and level 1 only) rituals when you pick this feat. If you are trained in Arcana or Religion, you can master rituals up to your level +4, and gain a +2 bonus to any checks needed for the ritual.
Special: If you gain Ritual Caster from your class, the bonus rituals from the feat stack with any the class gives you, and you can apply the level +4 bonus to the rituals you gain from your class.

Philemonite
2014-03-01, 02:54 PM
Power Attack being useless was the main reason I changed it, yes. XD If you do end up going through PHB3, Power Throw should be adjusted in a similar manner.

Already done.:smallwink:
Surprisingly, PHB3 has a lot more general feats then PHB2.


Toughness might be very slightly over-tuned, but remember a large chunk of the scaling is based on your level, and a feat getting full power at level 30 is much different compared to gaining its full power at level 21. Durable being useless isn't necessarily a bad thing. =P (In games with that version of Toughness I just...delete Durable, I don't try and give it a niche.)

I might change Durable to something else, if I get the inspiration. Maybe add some save bonuses?:smallconfused:


Elemental Focus doesn't have prerequisites on purpose, it's not even pretending to be balanced with the elemental feats in the PHB, but is instead on the level of Silvery Glow, Burning Vapors, Fiery Blood, Icy Heart, Lightning Soul, and Thunder's Rumble. Elemental Focus was basically my lazy way of not having to buff Astral Fire, Burning Blizzard, Dark Fury, or Raging Storm, and also not have to homebrew a feat for every other possible combination.

Some prerequisites didn't really make sense to me anyway.:smallwink:


Focused Attack was actually aimed at Barbarians if they want to use a 9[W] daily and not hit for less damage then a double hit encounter power. XD Battleminds aside from being mobile I thought tended to rely on relatively low weapon dice powers, like Lightning Rush, Brilliant Recovery, and Brutal Barrage.

I really need to play a defender for once, and Battlemind looks very interesting.
I predict a lot of creative block when I start working on defenders.


Remember on Versatile Focus that my little comment is assuming that a weapon/implement user will use an elemental weapon (also an implement) to make all their attacks the same element and then pick an elemental feat, but yes exists as a niche feat for say a class like Geomancer. On weapon training that was basically the idea, that weapon proficiency was generally a waste of a feat. It's also another example of me being slightly lazy and not home-brewing a racial weapon feat like Githzerai Blade Master for every single race. Plus it would allow say in 4e a Swordmage to not need Weapon Focus and Implement Focus.

Racial feats wouldn't fit here anyway, although I can rename some existing feats most of them should be original.


A few more PHB feats that I've changed for my own game. Remember though that this was balancing for within 4e in general, and with less options in general these changes might seem too good, so, use them as you will. (And the Nimble Blade change is actually a nerf, might as well point that out.)

Action Surge (PHB pg. 193):
Increase the bonus to +4, but type it as a power bonus.
While still an okay feat, it hadn't age very well with the rest of 4ed. Typing the bonus reduces its impact on nova turns however.

Untyped=bad:smalltongue:


Blade Opportunist (PHB pg. 194):
Remove the prerequisites. Increase the bonus to +3.
This change slightly increases the feat, but most defenders are going to want to pick more reliable ways to keep targets next to them regardless.

Sounds reasonable.


Combat Reflexes (PHB pg. 194):
Remove the prerequisites. Increase the bonus to +2.
This feat is still very weak, but might fit into a niche build now, maybe.

It is still relatively weak, but it might stack with one of the defenders class features.:smallamused:


Fast Runner (PHB pg. 195):
Delete the prerequisite.
This feat probably still isn't worth taking, but removing the prerequisite might open it up to some niche builds.

There are a few running dedicated feats, but taking them all really burns a lot of feat slots on something that might be useful.


Human Perseverance (PHB pg. 198):
Increase the bonus to +3.
This is to make the feat more useful than the no prerequisite focused resilience.

I have no problem with that.


Long Jumper (PHB pg. 198):
Increase the feat bonus to the skill to +2.
This feat probably still isn't worth taking, but if you make the choice to take a flavourful feat, it should still be somewhat useful in its niche.

+2 two makes it close to skill focus, but still not quite there. Still, you need to be really good to make jumping common in your campaigning. It kinda reminds me of Aquaman.:smalltongue:


Nimble Blade (PHB pg. 198):
You do not gain this bonus if you charge.
A feat that needs you to make use of combat advantage feels wrong to use on a charge...and this feats makes charging with a rapier better than most weapons.

Makes sense.


Ritual Caster (PHB pg. 200): replace the feat with;
Ritual Caster
Heroic Tier
Benefit: You can master and perform rituals of your level or lower. You master three level 1 (and level 1 only) rituals when you pick this feat. If you are trained in Arcana or Religion, you can master rituals up to your level +4, and gain a +2 bonus to any checks needed for the ritual.
Special: If you gain Ritual Caster from your class, the bonus rituals from the feat stack with any the class gives you, and you can apply the level +4 bonus to the rituals you gain from your class.

Burning a feat to get Ritual Caster without any other benefit does sound bland.

Cloud
2014-03-02, 01:01 AM
Well, on Rituals in general only so much could be done at the feat end, so I changed rituals a lot. (Also in general like how I just delete durable because toughness now includes it, I'd delete expert ritualist because ritual caster includes it.) Again though these are mostly assuming you just...use 4e rituals as you find them, so they might not be appropriate for a direct lift, etc.

Rituals:
Random Ritual rules ahead. XD

- Reduce the casting time of all rituals by half. If multiple rule elements half ritual casting time, apply them one at a time, rounding up to the nearest round each time, to a minimum of 2 rounds.
- You may spend a healing surge to cast any non-creation ritual that you’ve mastered and is 10 or more levels below your level without any GP components, except for Raise Dead.
- When casting a ritual you may make an optional skill check against the Hard DC of the Ritual’s associated skill and level (this is addition to any other skill checks the ritual may require). If the check succeeds, you can reduce the casting time of that Ritual by 20%. If you exceed the check by 5 points, reduce the casting time by 40%. If you exceed the check by 10 points, reduce the casting time by 60%, and if you exceed the check by 15 reduce the casting time by 80%. Apply this reduction after any half reductions, rounding up to the nearest round with a minimum of 2 rounds. Lorekeeper’s Cunning works on this roll.
- Reduce the Market Price of Rituals by 80%.
- Reduce the component cost of all non-creation rituals by half (except for Raise Dead, see below).
- Increase the death penalty associated with Raise Dead to -2 until the first milestone. The component cost is 100 gp * level for a heroic character, 500 gp * level for a paragon character, and a flat 125,000 gp for an epic character. No rules elements can reduce this price.
Rituals aren’t used nearly as much as they should be; these changes make rituals more appealing, and reward high skill modifiers when using a ritual. The changes to raise dead are to make death more impactful and to reduce the power of classes that can cast Raise Dead in a single round.

If you're going to use melee training...please use the unnerf version found in PHB2. However I'd suggest making the feat mostly redundant, as it's basically a feat tax/power tax, particularly for Defenders.

Or you can ignore this and just give the classes that need it features they need.

Melee Training:
- At character creation you may pick any stat to use for MBAs instead of Str if you have at least one melee at-will that does not use Str.
This is to reduce feat tax, and really it makes no sense the expert who has trained in blades his entire life can hit with his at-wills, but misses on MBAs.

I also note you didn't import over any of the expertise feats. While I think the feats are way too powerful, they are also unfortunately quite necessarily for the maths for work. (Some smart cookie gave masterwork for armour, but didn't do the same thing for weapons. >.> ) So this is what I usually do.

Attack Maths Fix (including expertise feats rules):
- At level 5 all PCs gain a +1 feat bonus to attack rolls. This bonus increases to +2 at level 15, and +3 at level 25.
- Powers that are missing the weapon and implement keywords and have an attack bonus written into the power (normally in the format of +2 at level 1, +4 at level 11 and +6 at level 21, though +1 at level 1, +3 at level 11, +5 at level 21 and +3 at level1, +6 at level 11 and +9 at level 21 are common variations) instead of the value written or changes made via errata all have +1 to attack rolls with the power at level 1, +2 at level 6, +3 at level 11, +4 at level 16, +5 at level 21 and +6 at level 26. Increase this bonus to +2 if the attack is against AC.
- Any feat with the word Expertise in the name that also provides a feat bonus to attack rolls cannot be taken until level 5. Additionally, any bonuses that scale with tier increase at level 15 and 25 if they don’t already, not level 11 and 21.
Attack bonuses did not scale correctly with monster defences; this rule is to help alleviate this problem without the players having to spend feats. The latter part of this fix is because the fix applies to all attack rolls, not just to weapon or implement attacks, so these non-weapon/implement attacks do not need to be increased again as some of the newer sources are doing. The increasing of 2 at each tier also made these powers too accurate at the beginning of the tier. Finally the newer expertise feats scale with tier and this made characters too accurate at the low end of each tier.

...Just looked at improved grab and realized that if you used the above change, grabbing already would have a +1 to +9 bonus as you level up, so perhaps improved grab should be changed to an untyped bonus, but only +1 per tier. Or if you don't use the above, I'd actually say the feat is too weak, and needs to be buffed some.

Philemonite
2014-03-04, 12:09 PM
I like the modifications you made to Rituals, I already considered to implement the use of surges when performing rituals.

Free Melee training if you need it? Nice.:smallwink:

I'm actually avoiding powers that are neither implement nor weapon based.

I'm still thinking about the expertise feats. Free versatile expertise does make sense, I hate that math needs to be fixed, and feat tax sucks. Some people also give one defense feat for free at level 1.

Cloud
2014-03-04, 08:19 PM
Yeah, lots of people give out improved defenses for free and I'm one of those. XD

Actually I go a bit further. Use this as you will though, I mean I also nerf all constant item bonuses to defenses to +1, and conditional ones ranged from +1 to +3 and are all typed to items bonuses, and I ban Shadow Bands, and you can only take 2 of the Epic defense feats, the second only gives +2, and you have to take them in your worst defenses...so yeah, ah, at least improved defenses, but only 2 stats get boosted, so a 3rd defense is always going to lag. ...And for more context I have to deal with players that think Linguistic is a good feat, so it might be overkill just in general, nerfs to other sources of defense or not.

- At level 3 all PCs may select one of Superior Fortitude/Reflex/Will. They must meet the prerequisites. This feat can be retrained for free each time you level up, but only into one of the other feats listed before, in case you don't meet the prerequisites for the one you want at level 3.
- At level 7 all PCs gain a +1 feat bonus to fortitude, reflex and will defences. This bonus increases to +2 at level 11, and +3 at level 21.
- Furthermore, the lowest NAD at level 13, 17, 23 and 27 gains an additional +1 bonus. Determine the lowest NAD using only bonuses gained from half level, ability scores, race, class, and this bonus at the level the bonus is earned at, if there is a tie you may pick either one freely.