PDA

View Full Version : Far over the Misty Mountains cold...



Tanuki Tales
2013-12-05, 02:56 PM
So, I'm trying to come up with a race of mountain dwelling folks who work metal and am looking for some inspiration in that regard. I don't want to go with Dwarves (as much as I love them), since so far this setting has built itself without any of the old guard except humans being present.

To that end, what races (other than Dwarves) have you all used or made yourself?

Airk
2013-12-05, 03:15 PM
I am a little bit concerned with the perception that you need to make a race that is basically "like dwarves! But not dwarves!"

There's a reason there aren't too many other races in the specific niche of "mountain dwelling and metalworking" race. You can often get one or the other, but I can't think of any that have both because...dwarves.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-05, 03:29 PM
I love Goliaths, and perhaps you could use them or another giant-y race for your mountain race?

Also, what the heck is the theme of this setting?

Callin
2013-12-05, 03:47 PM
Goblins make a good stand in but I dont think this is the route you wanna go.

Galeb Duhr could possibly work. Men of the Mountain working the fruits of the Mountain. Though I doubt they would be plentiful.

Any other sort of Earth Genesi or Earth based Race.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-05, 04:33 PM
I am a little bit concerned with the perception that you need to make a race that is basically "like dwarves! But not dwarves!"

There's a reason there aren't too many other races in the specific niche of "mountain dwelling and metalworking" race. You can often get one or the other, but I can't think of any that have both because...dwarves.

Well, that may be an issue faced be me and you, since our knee-jerk reaction to filling those two niches (or that one combined niche) is with people of a dwarven persuasion, others may not approach it from the same angle as us.

And I think you're taking this too seriously if you honestly feel concern over wanting to fill the niches Dwarves occupy with non-Dwarves.


I love Goliaths, and perhaps you could use them or another giant-y race for your mountain race?

Also, what the heck is the theme of this setting?

I had thought about giants, especially with Bestiary 4 coming out with Slag Giants...hm...food for thought.

None currently. I'm building it piece meal as is required by my players and by the story. I want to foster a world that my friends and I have built together, so I'm nailing down as little as possible.


There is a Trickster deity who tends to meddle with things, among which being "wandering dungeons" that scale to those who enter them.
The main continent has free cities and at least one kingdom, as well as a justice oriented organization that holds the peace across the continent.
There is a second continent, currently undeveloped, where a Caribbean-esque trading craddle exists between the two continents.
There are grasslands inhabited by tribal lizardfolk.
There are steppes, plains and badlands inhabited by Minotaurs with a Dothraki-esque culture.
There is a desert where at least two nomadic cultures are at odds with one another. One is a race of four-armed humanoids (Bestiary 4) and another is a Mandalorian-esque (in that the culture matters, not one's race) based somewhat on Worm Handlers from Naausica and the Valley of the Wind. The latter people are centered out of a city that was spot welded onto this world from a passing, dying universe. It's from here that black powder and guns have originated, but only the nomads use them to any real degree.
From that passing, dying universe came the Samsarans, who were weaved into the natural flow of everything by the Trickster deity.
There is a floating country in the lower to upper atmosphere populated by a human descended race (broken into castes) that have an addiction to a flower that has similar properties to the Spice from Dune. They have no interest in the world below, except for their scientist caste. But said scientists view us with the same anthropological interest that we view gorillas and other lesser apes. There is a sub-race of this race who are descended from those who were exiled or left the country and survived the withdrawal from the flower.
And we have humans being humans.


Goblins make a good stand in but I dont think this is the route you wanna go.

Galeb Duhr could possibly work. Men of the Mountain working the fruits of the Mountain. Though I doubt they would be plentiful.

Any other sort of Earth Genesi or Earth based Race.

Goblins might be neat for subversion though; thanks for the other suggestions as well.

erikun
2013-12-05, 04:36 PM
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what you want here.

Do you want humans that act like dwarves? Then just make... humans that act like dwarves, then. They live up in the mountains, mine them for metal, and are expert metalsmiths thanks to that. They probably have towns and outfits adorned with it, and you can go as simple as everyone carrying a sword to as fancy as El Dorado with streets covered in gold (or more likely tumbaga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbaga)).

Do you want some sort of species that acts like dwarves but aren't dwarves? Well, they could be anything. I'd think giant ant-people would make "sense" as something that would mine and work metal. Do be careful, because you're likely to either end up with "Dwarves with funny hats" (act exactly like dwarves, but just look odd) or with something that humanity has no reason to even deal with.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-05, 04:41 PM
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what you want here.

Sorry, didn't mean to cause confusion.


Do you want some sort of species that acts like dwarves but aren't dwarves? Well, they could be anything. I'd think giant ant-people would make "sense" as something that would mine and work metal. Do be careful, because you're likely to either end up with "Dwarves with funny hats" (act exactly like dwarves, but just look odd) or with something that humanity has no reason to even deal with.

This second one is what I'm looking for. I want something to fill the niche of "mountain dwelling metal workers". They don't need to be anymore like dwarves past that. They don't need to be dour or extremely dogmatic or highly militant or short or anything.

veti
2013-12-05, 04:49 PM
So, I'm trying to come up with a race of mountain dwelling folks who work metal and am looking for some inspiration in that regard. I don't want to go with Dwarves (as much as I love them), since so far this setting has built itself without any of the old guard except humans being present.

To that end, what races (other than Dwarves) have you all used or made yourself?

The Elder Scrolls setting casts 'orcs' (an elven subrace, basically elves with tusks and green skin) in this role.

If your setting is basically 101 flavours of human, then what's wrong with... mountain-dwelling humans? They'd be culturally accustomed to small communities, tunnels and hard physical labour, but genetically - much the same as everyone else.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-05, 04:51 PM
This second one is what I'm looking for. I want something to fill the niche of "mountain dwelling metal workers". They don't need to be anymore like dwarves past that. They don't need to be dour or extremely dogmatic or highly militant or short or anything.

fire giants? great big semi-elemental brutes with a penchant for being master metalworkers and smiths of great and famed weapons and armor for mortals and gods alike, forges generally being in hard to reach places like a fortress built into a mountain. or is that too "old guard" for the setting you're using? perhaps a homebrew like some sort of sentient mercury elementals that have the power to liquify, shape, and solidify metal materials without the help of a forge.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-05, 05:09 PM
The Elder Scrolls setting casts 'orcs' (an elven subrace, basically elves with tusks and green skin) in this role.

Huh, I'll need to look into that.


If your setting is basically 101 flavours of human, then what's wrong with... mountain-dwelling humans? They'd be culturally accustomed to small communities, tunnels and hard physical labour, but genetically - much the same as everyone else.

What gave you that impression?

The lizardfolk are lizardfolk (using Nile Monitors as the visual basis), the minotaurs are minotaurs, the samsarans are strangers from another universe, the skyfolk are so far removed from humans as we are from apes and those I haven't decided the kasatha are aliens for this, they won't be connected to humanity.


fire giants? great big semi-elemental brutes with a penchant for being master metalworkers and smiths of great and famed weapons and armor for mortals and gods alike, forges generally being in hard to reach places like a fortress built into a mountain. or is that too "old guard" for the setting you're using? perhaps a homebrew like some sort of sentient mercury elementals that have the power to liquify, shape, and solidify metal materials without the help of a forge.

By "old guard" I meant the standard fantasy mix (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Halflings, etc), so no, Fire Giants wouldn't be akin to that. But aren't Fire giants usually just "dwarves, but bigger and meaner" in most games?

A race of metal elementals is something quite interesting though; thanks for that suggestion.

Ravens_cry
2013-12-05, 05:16 PM
I love Goliaths, and perhaps you could use them or another giant-y race for your mountain race?

Also, what the heck is the theme of this setting?
Ooh, Cyclopeans! After all, they help Hephaestus at his forge. Going for a large race would indeed help with distancing them from dwarves.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-05, 05:19 PM
By "old guard" I meant the standard fantasy mix (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Halflings, etc), so no, Fire Giants wouldn't be akin to that. But aren't Fire giants usually just "dwarves, but bigger and meaner" in most games?

well it depends on the story and setting they're pulled from. in some cases they're essentially just underpowered titans due to some vague wording. there's the version you mentioned that had them as related to dwarves (which I'm 95% sure was just some storyteller messing around with irony). really giants are personalized by fluff more than anything else.



A race of metal elementals is something quite interesting though; thanks for that suggestion.

well I hope it helps, my other option was to look over the old 3rd edition monster manual I have or one of the open source bestiaries.

The_Tentacle
2013-12-05, 06:12 PM
In Norse mythology (I think), trolls are metal-workers who live underground. They also tend to be rather large, so there is that. I would also second the goliaths and/or cyclopses.

Another more homebrew idea could be to do a race that's like goblins, but with the personality and culture of halflings or gnomes. Personally, I like the idea of a race that can wade in lava flows and forge stuff on anvils half-submerged, like some sort of Fire Giant... but that's just me.

Sith_Happens
2013-12-05, 06:20 PM
What about Azer? They're like Dwarves... but ON FIRE.

Scow2
2013-12-05, 06:30 PM
I suggest Tiger- or SnowLeopard-people to be the mountain folk, with an Indian-esque culture to them, and based on myths of Shangri-La. Elves and dwarves are both famous for their metalworking in classic fantasy - meet them in the middle with a fluffy compromise - metalworking and stonecarvings that are as beautiful as they are effective.

Architecturally intricate stuff - Raised, flying aqueducts and street-level flow to redirect the mountain runoff away from their homes, with intricate care taken to raise beautiful grasses, flowers, and plants even well above the treeline. Huge, outdoor stone temples, some freestanding, others built into the mountains, and yet more re-sculpting the very mountains themselves. (No, that's not a mountainpeak... but it once was!) Statues of heroes and nobles, ornate metalworking trimming the buildings and waterworks and

The fashions can also be exotic, and have an emphasis on natural beauty even in the alpine climate - Silk tabards, loincloths, bracers, legwraps and colllars gilded and decorated in intricate patterns and the flowing, exotic runic language, leaving the torsos, arms, and legs bare to show off the wearer's natural fur patterns and physiques.

Favored Class: Monk.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-05, 06:40 PM
I change all my suggestions to match scow's, there's always room for more catfolk.

charcoalninja
2013-12-05, 07:01 PM
I second the fire giant motion as well. Especially if you have any intension of including Adamantite as a thing. In my setting I've decided that the only way to forge a weapon of Adamantite is to heat it in an environment where it is so hot that any creature there takes 2d6 points of fire damage a round of exposure, meaning that only a creature immune to fire or with FR 12+ could forge this rare incredible metal. Since Adamantite is such a crazy strong metal literally TWICE as strong as steel (harness 20 vs. 10), and can cut through steel with ease (ignores hardness less than 20).

So for me, that means Fire Giants are the only readily available mortal race capable of working that metal, making them pretty much THE go to smiths in the world.

They don't have to be even remotely like Dwarves either. Especially if you focus on giving them fire traits like a serious temper, and overweening arrogance, though I suppose that is a little bit like Dwarves lol.

D20ragon
2013-12-05, 07:09 PM
Seconding trolls. In a setting of mine, Trolls are tricky miners, quick to double cross. However, trollsteel is second to none. In the same setting, Dwarves are untrustworthy merchants and master mages, Half men(halflings) were feared raiders, who earned the name half men not only by being short, but by cutting their enemies in half. A race of wise elephant men were the first created, and their creations, a warforged type race populated most of the world. Phoenix people and a breed of seafaring devils, as well as a roman dragonborn empire finished the world off.

Thinker
2013-12-05, 08:29 PM
Here's some homebrew, in case you're into that sort of thing (no mechanics as I don't know what system you're after).

The Children of Gofannon

In the far away Southern Mountains live a people called the Children of Gofannon, though most outsiders call them Kanocs. They are renowned for their craftsmanship with gold, silver, iron, and bronze and for their beautiful marble art and architecture. Along with their smithing prowess, they are formidable negotiators, fine artists, accomplished musicians, and capable warriors. The only thing that might be more famous about them is their promiscuity, which often draws the ire of their hosts.

Their Home
Children of Gofannon live in the Southern Mountains. While the mountains are tall and intimidating, the climate is very mild, rarely snowing even during the winter. Towns are built out of the rock-face so that they can be seen by travelers from the mountain passes. Their most common building materials are wood, stone, and marble. Marble is used in all of their temples, palaces, and other grand buildings.

The most successful Gofanonn towns are situated closest to the exterior of the mountain range or close to the nearby Shining Coast. Children of Gofannon often trade far and wide, peddling their craftsmanship to foreign halls and people.

Physical Characteristics
Children of Gofannon stand between 4'6" to 5'0" tall for males and 4'8" to 5'4" tall for females. They have a dark, olive complexion, and brown or black, curly hair. Their eyes are typically yellow, green, or blue. Women and men alike keep their hair long, covering their pointed ears.

Women wear tunics of purple, blue, red, or yellow or, in the case of married women, a plain white tunic beneath an ornate stola. Jewelry is worn as earings, necklaces, bracelets, rings, or brooches ornamented with gems found in the mountains. Finer jewelry indicates higher status. Men wear various-colored tunics beneath a fine, white toga. They also wear jewelry to show status, though typically less obvious than women. Both men and women wear boots during the winter and sandals the rest of the year.

Makeup is important to both men and women, as their culture promotes vanity. Accusing someone of pride and vanity is considered a grand compliment and it is not uncommon for Children of Gofannon to take two hours to prepare before leaving one's home.

Family
Within a city, hereditary lineage is very important. Because of their promiscuity, it is often difficult to determine who the father was so lineage is measured through the female line. As various families have risen to prominence, powerful matriarchs have risen with them. The families within a city vie for complete control over the town's wealth and power. Law and order is enforced by gangs loyal to one family or another.

Some of the more successful families have even established bases of power in other towns. Instead of measuring nations of Gofannon by their physical territory, political power is instead measured by a family's influence over trade and cities. The greatest Gofannon power is the Campana family, which has significant power bases in eight cities, three monthly caravans, and forty ships in their trade fleet.

Warfare
War is a common and important component of Gofannon society. Families fight and feud with one another over anything and everything. Towns that are not allied will raid each other during the spring and summer months for valuables. Towns will also send raiding parties out against nearby barbarian tribes to bring back goods and slaves. The towns of the Southern Mountains will often band together to fight off larger, external threats or to wage war on a common enemy.

This common warfare helps the war leaders and their families to gain prestige and political influence. Because their towns are ruled as oligarchies by the families, those who are more successful at war are more likely to be elected as mayor of the towns.

Government
Cities and towns are governed by mayors who are elected by the oligarchy of powerful families within the town. They are responsible for ensuring the safety of the town and for increasing the wealth potential for those who live within it. There are city councils within the towns who pass laws and whose seats are filled by members of the powerful families. The mayors typically answer to their family matriarch. In rare cases, a single family can control the mayor in multiple cities, which is often referred to as a League, such as in the case of the Campana League.

Priests are responsible for ruling on the laws that have been passed by a town, as it is believed that only with their divine interpretation that they can pass judgement. Priests are often brought in to settle feuds between families or between towns.

Areas surrounding a city are controlled by the town and follow whatever laws are dictated to them. They also pay tribute to the town in exchange for protection against other nearby towns, barbarians, and outlaws.

Food & Resources
While the political power of the mountain people is found in the cities, the food and resources come from the area nearby. Quarries are often found nearby, along with pig and goat farms, and forests. They also harvest a giant mushroom, called bora, whose trunk is like wood, but whose top is edible, though it is a bit bland. Bora is a staple food among the Children of Gofannon. It's bland flavor is partially why spices and herbs are in such high demand among their people.

Architecture
Buildings are normally made from bora wood, stone, and brick and then painted various colors based on the family they are connected to. Important buildings, like temples, family palaces, and town halls, are built from marble and ordained with metal, gemstone, and paintings. Large pillars are a common sight and are nearly synonymous with Gofannon architecture.

Burial
Children of Gofannon are buried in family crypts deep inside the mountains. People are placed in ornate sarcophaguses with their personal effects and then sealed with wax. Broken seals are often taken of signs of necromancers or a return from the dead.

Art, Music, & Literature
Gofannon art is often figurative, depicting actual things from the world using terracotta, marble, or metalworking. Terracotta and marble sculptures are typically painted to match the artist's version of the depiction. Engraved metalworking is popular, especially with the upper class. Vase painting is popular for depicting family stories and history.

Clay and wooden pipes are the most common instruments among Gafannon, though drum accompaniment is not uncommon. Songs are sung that draw from their religious texts and in honor of great or current leaders. Songs are a primary form of entertainment for the people. The most popular theaters perform a type of music called Gafannon Opera where the actors sing their parts.

References
Culture based heavily upon Etruscan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscans) culture.
Promiscuity and various characteristics taken from Trauco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauco).
Name derived from Welsh deity Gofannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gofannon)
Fashion copied from Roman fashion (http://library.thinkquest.org/26602/fashions.htm).


I hope this helps! :smallsmile:

Scow2
2013-12-05, 08:33 PM
Trolls and Fire Giants are too mainstream and Wagnerian.

Knaight
2013-12-05, 10:16 PM
I'd be tempted to go with something ant based, keeping the idea of distinct roles, particularly keeping the drone and queen roles. You've got the drones and worker class tunneling, dealing with rock via a combination of tools and acid (perhaps produced by some sort of aphid analog), a specialized worker class that does smith work and similar, a scholarly class, the soldier class, and the queen. You've got the option for an entire mountain to be a hive, conflict between hives being a pressure for technological development, and really quite a lot of material tied up in adapting real ants. Plus, with the aphid analogs you've basically got an option for them to breed strains which produce different chemicals. Smiths are using materials made by alchemists, taken out of mines which double as tunnels which were washed down with acid bred under the supervision of chemists, in a society where all of these specialists come together to develop unequaled metallurgy.

Jay R
2013-12-05, 10:51 PM
Go read Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain (The Book of Three, etc.) My new game has Fair Folk, but no elves, dwarves, Sprites, brownies, etc.

In fact, I intend to eventually introduce elves as portrayed in Terry Pratchett's Lords and Ladies.

From the book"

“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.”

Averis Vol
2013-12-05, 10:51 PM
So, I'm trying to come up with a race of mountain dwelling folks who work metal and am looking for some inspiration in that regard. I don't want to go with Dwarves (as much as I love them), since so far this setting has built itself without any of the old guard except humans being present.

To that end, what races (other than Dwarves) have you all used or made yourself?

Theres a group in my game that are goliathish ice giants. They are known simply as mountain folk, because they refuse to identify by a name. They are tall, stone colored figures who live in climates incredibly fierce, even too dangerous for dwarves. They are also the only people capable of mining true ice, as it only forms in the almost unlivable conditions that they make their home. Another strange bit is that their homes are honeycombed into the mountain, and when combined with the sounds of their forge makes an eerie enough melody to drive fear directly into the bones of non mountain folk who come within 10 miles of the forges. They instantly drop into the shaken condition, and without special protection will become panicked before they reach the source.

So far I've enjoyed them, the PC's even used them to lure a small army of orcs into an ambush then shatter their morale. Pretty fun so far.

Slipperychicken
2013-12-05, 10:55 PM
Oreads (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-oread) fill the niche. They're basically humans crossed with earth elementals, and seem different enough from dwarves to justify being their own race.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-05, 11:29 PM
Go read Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain (The Book of Three, etc.) My new game has Fair Folk, but no elves, dwarves, Sprites, brownies, etc.

In fact, I intend to eventually introduce elves as portrayed in Terry Pratchett's Lords and Ladies.

From the book"

ah terry pratchett, possibly the only current day author to realize the fae are a bunch of murderous thieving omnicidal vain jerks and not cute friendly tricksters who can be healed by little children clapping their hands and believing really hard.

Scow2
2013-12-05, 11:35 PM
ah terry pratchett, possibly the only current day author to realize the fae are a bunch of murderous thieving omnicidal vain jerks and not cute friendly tricksters who can be healed by little children clapping their hands and believing really hard.

Actually, they're both at once, often in the same fae.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-05, 11:38 PM
Actually, they're both at once, often in the same fae.

ok yes admittedly fae are just chaotic insane, but back on topic I'm still backing mercury elementals, fire giants, or scow's proposed catfolk like race (cause everyone needs more catfolk).

Ravens_cry
2013-12-05, 11:49 PM
Actually, they're both at once, often in the same fae.
Well, they are nature spirits, and nature both gives and takes with wanton capriciousness.

Jay R
2013-12-06, 11:07 AM
ah terry pratchett, possibly the only current day author to realize the fae are a bunch of murderous thieving omnicidal vain jerks and not cute friendly tricksters who can be healed by little children clapping their hands and believing really hard.

Actually, my biggest problem with most fantasy or SF races, from elves to Vulcans to Kzinti is that any fully developed sentient race ought to have just as much variety as humans do.

Almost the only non-humans routinely shown with to have as great an emotional range as humans are Kryptonians.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-06, 11:58 AM
So many wonderful things have been suggested in this thread thus far that I am having a hard time to deciding which concept I like more.

....

That is freaking awesome and you guys keep up the good work. :smallbiggrin:

Airk
2013-12-06, 12:06 PM
And I think you're taking this too seriously if you honestly feel concern over wanting to fill the niches Dwarves occupy with non-Dwarves.


I'm not taking it seriously, I just hate "funny hat syndrome" and "different for the sake of different", both of which tend to detract from a world rather than enhance it.

Most of the suggestions here, alas, fall into one or the other.

SiuiS
2013-12-06, 12:09 PM
So, I'm trying to come up with a race of mountain dwelling folks who work metal and am looking for some inspiration in that regard. I don't want to go with Dwarves (as much as I love them), since so far this setting has built itself without any of the old guard except humans being present.

To that end, what races (other than Dwarves) have you all used or made yourself?

"Kobolds". Use the attributes for svirfneblin (I hear they are closer to historical kobolds anyway).

Although myself? I would use the goblins from Elf Quest. Especially if I could fit in Two edge. Two edge is. Bad. Ass.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-06, 12:09 PM
I'm not taking it seriously, I just hate "funny hat syndrome" and "different for the sake of different", both of which tend to detract from a world rather than enhance it.

Most of the suggestions here, alas, fall into one or the other.

Feel free to give critiques, because I'm personally all ears and interested.

Ravens_cry
2013-12-06, 01:00 PM
"Kobolds". Use the attributes for svirfneblin (I hear they are closer to historical kobolds anyway).

Although myself? I would use the goblins from Elf Quest. Especially if I could fit in Two edge. Two edge is. Bad. Ass.
Those were trolls, not goblins. Also, Two Edge was half troll, half elf, hence his name.
I actually liked the trolls a lot better than most elves in Elf Quest. The latter tended to come across as Mary Sues a lot of the time. Then again, I liked the future series a lot as well, especially the aliens.

Thinker
2013-12-06, 01:00 PM
I'm not taking it seriously, I just hate "funny hat syndrome" and "different for the sake of different", both of which tend to detract from a world rather than enhance it.

Most of the suggestions here, alas, fall into one or the other.

Funny hat syndrome is necessary if you want to use any races other than human at all. You will never create a relatable, believable race for an RPG that will be worth the effort. We can spend hours creating a plausible species, but who would want to play it? How much effort would it take to stay in-character for something that isn't human?

Different for the sake of different is another issue. There's value in being unique. It keeps things fresh and interesting. It allows us to update our opinions on things and recognize ideas that we hadn't considered before. Why just rehash Tolkien for all of eternity? Mountain people often live very different lives in different parts of the world (look at Appalachia versus Switzerland).

If you take issue with someone's topic, why not just ignore it and move on to something that you enjoy talking about? It doesn't affect you in any way if someone wants something that you disagree with.

Blightedmarsh
2013-12-06, 03:06 PM
What about a symbiotic race; The formorians

You have large centipede like parasites attached to the host; their claw like legs anchored onto the spine. These parasites feed off of the hosts blood. They bery their jaws into the base of the skull and grow tendril into the hosts brain.

Humans would be an ideal host but perhaps not the only ones. The host is rendered blind or sensitive to strong light. They are dependent on the parasites antennas to get around in the total darkness of their underground homes.

The host is in may ways the same person they were before. They are still sentient and still aware. The parasite manipulates the emotional and pleasure centers of the hosts brain; creating a highly addictive sense of well being as well as an irrational fear of the outside and outsiders. Most hosts are driven by an absolute slavish devotion to both the safety of the hive and to the well being of the host community.

Some of the advantages host gain is enhanced stamina, healing and immune systems, heightened sensations and (pheromone based) empathy as well as chemically induced resistance to both fear and pain.

All hosts have the use of the parasites limbs. These are a pair of long, insectile limbs that come out behind the small of their backs. What dorm they take depends on the caste but some have strong claws, others sharp hooks with a paralytic venom and a rare few take the form of functional wings.

Flying formorians are the leaders of their kind. The hosts are always female, they can see and are usually "gifted". The young "princesses" are often driven by wanderlust and make up the majority of formorians seen in the world above.

When they get older and are ready to settle down they lose their wings and their ability to see. They become either a queen of an existing hive or they settle an entirely new hive. As queens their enhanced powers more than make up for their loss of sight or flight.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-06, 03:28 PM
Blighted, while that's an awesome idea for a subterranean race (I may in fact just use your Formian concept for my "Underdark" when I plan to fill it out), I don't see how that fills the niche of "mountain dwelling metal workers".

Blightedmarsh
2013-12-06, 03:50 PM
Blighted, while that's an awesome idea for a subterranean race (I may in fact just use your Formian concept for my "Underdark" when I plan to fill it out), I don't see how that fills the niche of "mountain dwelling metal workers"

Cool.

As for the metal working what about they use insects (possibly the larval grub of the parasite or other livestock species) to eat out mineral veins and secrete metal (possibly with a worked texture like Damask steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damask_steel)) like a wasp makes paper.

PS: I kind of envisage the queens/princesses ("Hime"?) being psionic. Do you have Psionics in setting?

As for other hosts/casts:

Giant naked mole rat things the size of a small bear used for heavy digging and cave fighting

Blind cave hyenas used as hunting animals.

A worker cast: Noted for having small sharp claws; a feeling of restlessness and a deep sense of contentment when working. They often process cocoons into silk or work the metal grubs.

A Hunter/forager cast: Light, lithe. Noted for having sharp poison barbs and an excellent sense of smell. Hunters are responsible for surface operations at night and are known for being alert and cautious.

A drone cast: Big, docile with heavy blunt claws. Drones do much of the heavy lifting and are directly involved in mining.

Warriors. They have large sharp claws. Their parasites tent to have chitinous ridges and armored protrusions. Some warriors develop the ability to spit a hot incendiary chemical from proboscises running from the parasite through the back of their throats inside the roofs of their mouths and coming out just above their canines. They curl back their lips to eject twin steams of hot sticky stinging napalm hungry for a spark. Warriors are understandably known for being confident and aggressive.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-06, 06:15 PM
I'm not taking it seriously, I just hate "funny hat syndrome" and "different for the sake of different", both of which tend to detract from a world rather than enhance it.

Most of the suggestions here, alas, fall into one or the other.

"different hat syndrome" is built into everything we make. everything is, for lack of a better word, human. if it wasn't human we wouldn't be able to describe it, it is human simply because WE made it with human words, human thoughts, human motivations.. a monster is a monster because we give it the worst qualities available to humanity, have it act as a suitably horrible human would if they had its abilities, then give it a funny name and pat ourselves on the back and say "well this is suitably inhuman, good work".

also, formians as the "underdark" race actually makes WAY more sense than drow, I mean seriously the drow are always touted as a threat to the entire world when all they ever really do is make slaver raids on small towns.. a gigantic formian hive however actually COULD be a threat since it would just keep growing and growing until it undermines everything.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-06, 06:24 PM
Also remember that Tropes are just tools (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools).

ReaderAt2046
2013-12-06, 06:27 PM
One thing I've used for this niche is the "molers", which are pretty much exactly what you'd guess, essentially a race of humanoid, sentient, moles. Their claws are formed of a sort of organic iron, allowing them to dig through stone with their bare claws.

Scow2
2013-12-06, 06:32 PM
I'm going to restate my Tigerpeople idea.

Why tiger-people? Because feliform humanoids have as much broad fantasy appeal if not more than lizardfolk, being the most famous and ideal nonhuman mammals fit for anthropomorphization - Felines already have compatible empathic facial expression with humans, and tigers are the most popular Charismatic Megafauna in the world. Tigers also feature strongly in Indian and Chinese mythology, on which their culture is based (More indian than Chinese). If you use Rakshasa, there should be some sort of connection worth exploring. They're common enough to be familiar and accepted by players, but not so overused as to be stock cliche.

They're able to be a famous mountain-dwelling, NOT subterranean race with a rich culture and striking architecture that can be admired from miles away by anyone, not merely those with Darkvision. They're also a Mountainous, not Cavernous, race... and possibly slightly Olympian/Babylonian. Without being dwarves, they are an ancient, proud people of unsurpassed ddication to their crafts, and the results of them. You'd be able to identify their work at a glance, having the properties of the best of Elven and Dwarven craftsmanship, given that they're a replacement race for both.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-06, 06:55 PM
I'm going to restate my Tigerpeople idea...

And then someone makes a fetishistic catgirl and the DM cries themselves to sleep after taking a very hot shower to get the feeling of being dirty to go away.

(Through I have to wonder about that statement of empathic facial features. Huh?)

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-06, 07:03 PM
And then someone makes a fetishistic catgirl and the DM cries themselves to sleep after taking a very hot shower to get the feeling of being dirty to go away.

(Through I have to wonder about that statement of empathic facial features. Huh?)

cats have a series of fairly clear expressions involving eye, mouth, and ear movement that can be directly related to human facial expressions. anyway in response to the first part...I hate when players do that, not everything has to be a symbol for the women they clearly can't impress enough to sleep with!!!

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-06, 07:18 PM
That is literally the only reason I'm gun-shy of using catfolk. Not that anyone I've even associated with would do something that creepy, but it does rub me wrong (especially with Rakshasa being living avatars of taboos, fetishes and corruption).

So I would make them be something between old school Thundercats and Hank McCoy when he was written by Grant Morrison.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-06, 07:23 PM
Make them bald? Less...Fetishistic there. Through I admit mole people are pretty damn unique.

Scow2
2013-12-06, 07:30 PM
And then someone makes a fetishistic catgirl and the DM cries themselves to sleep after taking a very hot shower to get the feeling of being dirty to go away.
Is it any worse than what happens frequently to Elves?

Slipperychicken
2013-12-06, 07:34 PM
I hate when players do that, not everything has to be a symbol for the women opposite sex they clearly can't impress enough to sleep with!!!

Yeah, this is pretty much why it's usually* a good idea to be wary of PCs who are different sexes than their players. This applies to women players as well as men.


*Mostly with young, immature, or new players.


Is it any worse than what happens frequently to Elves?

I like to think so, because most of the people I've talked to are especially disgusted by furries. Elves are sufficiently human in appearance that sexualizing them isn't as deviant.

Jakodee
2013-12-06, 07:35 PM
I once used a race I made called the devagur who TECHNICALY fit this role. Most of thier culture was based around the stars and a slightly patronizing nick name arose, "stargazer". They are as you might have guessed a mountainous culture who whorships the stars. Now the thing that sets these guys apart from dwarves is you said they had to work metal, not mine it. The devagur do not mine they "Call the ancestors" which means the stars. A priest performs a ritual a certain time of night to attract meteors. They believe each star is a dead devagur and they can call them back to earth to help the living. These "star stones" are not for show as within them is a special metal called "Auverstel" wich is old devagur for "spirit metal". From this Auverstel incredibly strong and light weapons and tools are made by blacksmiths, who have a special place in devagur society as they are the only ones allowed (besides priests) to touch unformed Auverstel. One more thing, depending on the ancestor the priests call on in thier ritual the metal can have different properties. The wise ancestors sword can sharpen the mind while the strong one's hammer is incredibly hard. One last thing that sets the devagur apart from your garden variety dwarf is while they live in the mountains they do not live underground. Instead the sensibly build terraces for farming crops. Potatoes are common as is redweed for trading (think tobacco) and goats are common to.

Scow2
2013-12-07, 01:30 AM
Yeah, this is pretty much why it's usually* a good idea to be wary of PCs who are different sexes than their players. This applies to women players as well as men.


*Mostly with young, immature, or new players.


I like to think so, because most of the people I've talked to are especially disgusted by furries. Elves are sufficiently human in appearance that sexualizing them isn't as deviant.
Says the person who has a million and five ways anywhere of indulging in their desires without having to resort to fantastic workarounds or deal with public ostracization just to play something they don't find physically abhorrent.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-07, 01:37 AM
Says the person who has a million and five ways anywhere of indulging in their desires without having to resort to fantastic workarounds or deal with public ostracization just to play something they don't find physically abhorrent.

in slipperychicken's defense I'd also bludgeon someone who makes an elf or human character just to "indulge in their desires" as you put it....it may just be because my wife routinely makes characters whose personalities revolve around sleeping with everything just to set off my anti-perversion rage. if you're going to make a character make it something you can actually RP not something you'd want to go out with...

but back on topic yet again, I maintain mercury elementals as a suggestion.

Blightedmarsh
2013-12-07, 05:24 AM
I third snow leopards.

What if they aren't animistic furies but hereditary lycanthropes. Were leopards who have retreated to the deep forest foothills and mountain valleys to escape persecution.

They use rice terraces and rule over tribes of subjugated humans. The more power one has, the more forms one can take the higher a leopards position in society is.

Formanian culture

Hosts are still very much human; they still have wants, needs, emotions and desires. In theory the hive is a kind of large group marriage though in practice the host do tend to pair off and have their favorites. The children of a hive are all raised communally and when they come of age it is up to them whether they join the hive, join a different hive or go and live as surface humans.

They are a gregarious people. Children grow up in the hive with almost no concept of modesty, privacy or private property. They are known to be outrageous gossips almost unable to keep secrets. Their culture places strong taboos on internal conflict, secrecy, jealousy, selfishness and dishonesty.

Formanian art is tactile; felt rather than seen. They love scented oils, perfumes and spices. A healthy hive does not have a dank noisome reek of filth and rot. It is a riot of strong fragrances; the smell of rot is a sign of death, madness and disease.

The formainians love poetry and music though they do not fashion or use instruments. They sing; each voice an integral part of the greater choir of hive live. These songs are how teams coordinate and they work to the tempo of the music. The silence is one of the most disturbing things about the outside world and one of the hardest for an isolated formainan to get used to.

Newwby
2013-12-07, 10:08 AM
The Elder Scrolls setting casts 'orcs' (an elven subrace, basically elves with tusks and green skin) in this role.

If your setting is basically 101 flavours of human, then what's wrong with... mountain-dwelling humans? They'd be culturally accustomed to small communities, tunnels and hard physical labour, but genetically - much the same as everyone else.

Expanding on this the Elder Scrolls setting casts Nords as dwellers of cold weather and mountainous terrain so how about a mixed orc and mountainous human culture? I realise you said you didn't have any of the 'old guard' races but the normally opposed races living in close proximity provides a great opportunity for roleplaying, particularly if you throw half-orcs in to the mix as well.

Tanuki Tales
2013-12-07, 10:31 AM
I personally abhor the general concept of half-races. If they're numerous enough to constitute being recognized as an actual race or sub-race, then why are they still be called "Half-whatever" instead of their own cultural name? And if they're not, then being called a "Half-Orc" or "Half-Elf" or "Half-Human" would seem more akin to a racial epithet than anything else.

Even though I mentioned a "sub-race" earlier in the thread, it's not actually one, I just lacked a better term.

Knaight
2013-12-09, 01:24 PM
That is literally the only reason I'm gun-shy of using catfolk. Not that anyone I've even associated with would do something that creepy, but it does rub me wrong (especially with Rakshasa being living avatars of taboos, fetishes and corruption).
I wouldn't be too worried, provided you have enough variety elsewhere - though, if you already have lizardfolk and use an insect of some sort somewhere, there's a case to be made that the mammal niche is already full and it's high time to fill arachnid and archasaur.

Scow2
2013-12-09, 01:44 PM
I wouldn't be too worried, provided you have enough variety elsewhere - though, if you already have lizardfolk and use an insect of some sort somewhere, there's a case to be made that the mammal niche is already full and it's high time to fill arachnid and archasaur.
If you have lizardfolk and insects, but the only Mammals are boring humans and human knockoffs, you don't have the mammal niche full.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-09, 01:53 PM
Not everyone finds humans boring, and you just can't make the case that we're not mammals. Also, arachnids are AWESOME in a completely non-sexual way. Maybe use the Shifter, which is often depicted as being less bangable then the average catgirl.

Could also use Mongrelfolk, and say all niches are filled. Huzzah!

Knaight
2013-12-09, 02:18 PM
If you have lizardfolk and insects, but the only Mammals are boring humans and human knockoffs, you don't have the mammal niche full.

I was thinking in terms of one intelligent species per niche. Humans for mammals, lizardfolk, one insect, one arachnid, a fish. This would probably roughly follow taxonomical kingdom or class, all within one or two phylum depending on whether invertebrates are included.

Scow2
2013-12-09, 03:07 PM
Humans and demihumans don't count because they're not inspired by what people consider "Animals", unlike lizard or spiderfolk. You need humans AND another, fluffier mammal species.

And shifters are too human to count.

Blightedmarsh
2013-12-09, 03:59 PM
If you want a good mammal you could go for something like a honey badger.

Small, tough, ferocious, intelligent, omnivorous and resistant to venom and grappling.

They can chase young lions off their kills and they eat cobras they also attack horses and cape buffalo. They are difficult to kill with dogs, almost invulnerable to spears and arrows and resistant to machetes. The wiki article says that the only way to be sure of killing one quickly is a club or gunshot to the head... REMOVE THE HEAD OR DESTROY THE BRAIN!

cerin616
2013-12-09, 04:08 PM
IMO the race should still be medium size at max, and usually human or lower stature.
If only because smaller tunnels are more stable. Its tough to build a mine run by giants because you cut out so much rock that you need a lot of support structure to hold the mountain up from collapse.

unless they are like the giants in races of stone that can meld stone. I assume that would be rather structurally sound.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-09, 04:11 PM
Could give them a fantastical caste system, where the big guys stand around sipping from their goblets hewn from a solid block of granite while the little guys do all of the digging.

Blightedmarsh
2013-12-09, 04:16 PM
Another thought for your cave race would be ice elementals who build tunnel networks filled and supported by ice.

Say that each elemental is made out of a collection of ice crystals just small enough to fit into the palm of your hand. Each crystal contains a part of the memories, skill and personality of the greater whole and are transferable between individuals.

They are known for pressure welding and cold iron working.

DMwithoutPC's
2013-12-09, 04:33 PM
I support the mountain dwelling tiger race. Call them Raksasa's or Tigris or Striped Folk if you do not want to go Half-whatever. I think their fluff is interesting, and they are something which I haven''t seen in a game before. I just see entire mountains being carved out into buildings with delicate features...

Scow2
2013-12-09, 04:46 PM
IMO the race should still be medium size at max, and usually human or lower stature.
If only because smaller tunnels are more stable. Its tough to build a mine run by giants because you cut out so much rock that you need a lot of support structure to hold the mountain up from collapse.

unless they are like the giants in races of stone that can meld stone. I assume that would be rather structurally sound.
Tunnel-living races are overdone, especially in mountains. Having people who turn mountains into fortresses, and be slightly larger (But not significantly) than humans improves jumping/climbing ability slightly in a fluff sense. Massive temples, monastaries, and flying (As in towering, not levitating) cities are more impressive than 60' tunnels.

nedz
2013-12-10, 06:49 PM
Only the Illithin have the knowledge of Steel.

Now this will cause your player's to perform a double take. Of course, these aren't your usual Illithin. Now they have the tentacles and every thing but they just hammer out metal and trade it with others. They are very secretive about their mines and their forges, which are never seen. This is because they don't do the hard work themselves, oh no, they have slaves for that.

charcoalninja
2013-12-11, 08:15 AM
Could go with humanoid goat people. Set up like Minotaurs are with furry bodies and goat heads and feet. Tap into the crazy that is mountain goats, giving them an inherent climb speed and bonuses to strength and agility. They'd be able to run around the mountains going places most races couldn't even fathom making them these mysterious guardians of the mountain.

They could find the most isolated locations of ore, have a great culture of contemplative philosophy, while having brash and deadly warriors who jump around headbutting people off cliffs.

The working of metal could be a reflection of their pursuit of self perfection, the crafting of great works mirrors the forging of ones soul with the greatests among them revered as almost Buddha figures for their enlightenment. Give a martial arts sort of mysticism to their metalwork and you're good to go.

They cut a striking image with the curved back ram's horns, but since they're mountain goats and not bulls they're agile, tenacious, and clever.

SethoMarkus
2013-12-11, 11:27 AM
Could go with humanoid goat people. Set up like Minotaurs are with furry bodies and goat heads and feet. Tap into the crazy that is mountain goats, giving them an inherent climb speed and bonuses to strength and agility. They'd be able to run around the mountains going places most races couldn't even fathom making them these mysterious guardians of the mountain.

This first part reminded me of an amazing series of animated shorts. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the fluff of the rest of your description, but take a look at this for some inspiration: Bitey (http://bitey.com/2004/03/bitey-of-brackenwood/)

runeghost
2013-12-11, 11:31 AM
You could go with a race something like Salamanders as depicted in D&D or Warcraft: a mix of serpentine and humanoid features, associated with fire and often (in D&D) working as smiths. They'd probably dwell mainly around volcanically, or at least geothermally, active areas, unless you decide they're not pyrophiles.

Telonius
2013-12-11, 03:40 PM
IMO the race should still be medium size at max, and usually human or lower stature.
If only because smaller tunnels are more stable. Its tough to build a mine run by giants because you cut out so much rock that you need a lot of support structure to hold the mountain up from collapse.

unless they are like the giants in races of stone that can meld stone. I assume that would be rather structurally sound.

Elves. Celebrimbor and Eol say hello. [/noldor pride] :smallamused:

Ralcos
2013-12-11, 07:12 PM
Could go with humanoid goat people. Set up like Minotaurs are with furry bodies and goat heads and feet. Tap into the crazy that is mountain goats, giving them an inherent climb speed and bonuses to strength and agility. They'd be able to run around the mountains going places most races couldn't even fathom making them these mysterious guardians of the mountain.

They could find the most isolated locations of ore, have a great culture of contemplative philosophy, while having brash and deadly warriors who jump around headbutting people off cliffs.

The working of metal could be a reflection of their pursuit of self perfection, the crafting of great works mirrors the forging of ones soul with the greatests among them revered as almost Buddha figures for their enlightenment. Give a martial arts sort of mysticism to their metalwork and you're good to go.

They cut a striking image with the curved back ram's horns, but since they're mountain goats and not bulls they're agile, tenacious, and clever.



I second this! I'm already coming up with character concepts with this race (mutters something about levels of cleric with a major Gold Dragon bloodline...)

Slipperychicken
2013-12-11, 08:47 PM
They cut a striking image with the curved back ram's horns, but since they're mountain goats and not bulls they're agile, tenacious, and clever.

So basically mountain-climbing Satyrs?

Scow2
2013-12-12, 10:09 AM
Fauns, but even more animallike if I had to guess. Satyrs have all sorts of baggage involving male sexuality associated with them.


I can stat up the Tiger-people race if you want, depending on system!
D&D 3.P stat overview:
In Pathfinder, they'd be +STR, +WIS, -CON(Ditch +WIS for 3.5), Natural Armor, Stonecunning, resistance to Trip Attacks, bonuses to Climb, Jump, Perception and Craft checks, the ability to ignore/reduce the penalties for crossing Rough Terrain from uneven ground (But not foliage or other non-mountainous situations), weapon familiarity with a few exotic polearms (Such as what amounts to a Guisarm or Glaive with an enhanced crit range), and/or weapon training with the Longspear, Glaive, Guisarm, Longbow, and Shortbow.

Their military favors medium armor, polearms, and archers, with standard tactics revolving around keeping enemies away from them in rough terrain, using high ground and rough terrain to their advantage to keep enemies close enough to take advantage of their great strength, but far enough to keep enemies away from their poor constitutions.

In 3.5, their favored class is Ranger.