PDA

View Full Version : Salvage (New Survival Use & New Items) [D&D 3.5, Work In Progress]



Ziegander
2013-12-07, 05:19 PM
SURVIVAL (WIS)
You are able to salvage items from creatures you defeat or from your surrounding area.
Salvage: After defeating certain creatures or when traveling in an area that contains special plants or materials (such as a Fire Flower Grotto or Mithril mine) you may attempt a Survival check to acquire items. The base DC of this check varies by an item's rarity. Check DC 15 for common items, 20 for uncommon items, 30 for rare items, 45 for legendary items, and 60 for unique items. This DC may increase based on the following criteria:


Salvage DC modifiers
{table=head]Conditions|
DC Modifier
Item is especially prominent|
-1 to -5

Item is especially difficult|
+1 to +5

Salvage from creature|
+½ creature's CR (rounded down)

Salvage a Vital item from a creature|
-5

Manual Dexterity (varies)|A negative Dex mod is added to the Salvage DC while a positive Dex mod is subtracted

Poor Visibility (varies)|
(see below)

--Pitch Dark|
+6

--Low-light|
+4

--Fog or Precipitation|
+2
[/table]

For every 5 points you beat the check DC you successfully salvage an additional available item with equal or lesser rarity. Failure by 4 or less indicates that your salvage attempt was unsuccessful. Failure by 5 or more means that not only was your attempt unsuccessful, you inadvertently destroyed one-third of any items available to salvage. Failing by 10 or more means that all available items are destroyed. After any unsuccessful salvage attempt you may not attempt to salvage the same creature or area until you have gained a new rank in the Survival skill.

Retry: Only if your previous attempts at salvaging have been successful, and only if there are additional items available to salvage.

Special: Salvaging items from a living creature is painful and often causes damage. Doing so without a creature's consent is always considered an Evil act. Salvaging a Vital item from a living creature always kills the creature. Salvaging a Vital item from a non-living creature, such as a Construct or Undead creature, destroys the creature.

NEW ITEMS

Aboleth Mucus
Rarity: Uncommon
Info: Aboleth Mucus is salvaged 1d4oz at a time from dead or helpless Aboleths, into jars, and becomes inert after a single use. A living Aboleth produces roughly 1oz of Aboleth Mucus per minute, and a defeated one can provide up to 20oz of Aboleth Mucus.
Effect: When applied underwater, 4oz of Aboleth Mucus expands into a cloud over the next several rounds. Any creature within the cloud that must succeed at a DC 19 Fortitude save or begin to suffocate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#suffocation) for as long as they remain within the cloud. In the first round, the cloud expands to a 5ft radius. In the second, to a 10ft radius. Each round thereafter, the cloud doubles in size and the DC to avoid its effects decreases by 3. The cloud ceases to have any effect after 5 rounds.

Above water, Aboleth Mucus can be hurled 4oz at a time as a grenade-like weapon. Any creature struck directly by the mucus must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or begin to suffocate for as long as 1d6×10 minutes. When used above water, Aboleth Mucus can be rinsed off with at least a pint of water as a standard action or burned off with 1 or more fire damage (Knowledge (Dungeoneering) DC 15 to know this fact). Using a torch to burn off the mucus is a standard action.
Market Price: 150gp/oz

Adamantite
Rarity: Rare
Info: Adamantite is salvaged 1d10lbs at a time, and produces half as much Adamantine when properly smelted (Craft (Blacksmithing) DC 20).
Effect: Adamantite is the rare ore from which Adamantine is made. This ore is found in remote caves and requires a pickaxe to salvage. A character with 5 or more ranks in Profession (Miner) gains a +2 bonus to Survival checks made to salvage Adamantite. A character with a set of Masterwork Tools also receives a +2 bonus to such checks.
Market Price: 500gp/lb

Admixture Core (Vital)
Rarity: Rare
Info: A single Admixture Core can be salvaged from any dead or helpless creature with two or more elemental subtypes (Cold, Electricity, Fire, etc).
Effect: These cores can be used as a grenade-like weapon with a splash radius equal to 5ft per two HD of the creature they were salvaged from (minimum 5ft). For each elemental subtype the creature possessed, its Admixture Core deals 1d6 energy damage/HD of the type that matches its subtype (half that to creatures in the splash radius). A creature struck directly by the core is not entitled to a save to reduce the damage, but creatures in the splash radius may attempt a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the creature's HD + the creature's Con mod) to halve the damage.
Market Price: Two Subtypes 250gp/HD, Three Subtypes 500gp/HD, Four Subtypes 1000gp/HD

Amber
Rarity: Rare
Info: Amber is a very rare item salvaged 1oz at a time only from ancient trees in remote locations. The DC to salvage Amber is 5 higher than normal even in heavily wooded areas. A single living tree might produce 1oz of Amber every 100 years. To salvage Amber the tree must be cut to the heartwood, requiring a successful Knowledge (Nature) check DC 30 to avoid killing the tree. An especially well-preserved petrified tree can contain up to 1d100 oz of Amber.
Effect: None.
Market Price: 50gp/oz.

Anarchic Core (Vital)
Rarity: Legendary
Info: A single Anarchic Core can be salvaged from any dead or helpless Outsider with the Chaotic subtype. Salvaging the core from a living creature always kills it.
Effect: A chaotic creature holding an Anarchic Core gains 5 temporary hit points and a +1 morale bonus to skill and ability checks as well as attack rolls and saving throws for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Furthermore, if the creature casts spells, it gains extra spell slots as if it were one level higher for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. These bonuses do not stack if a creature holds more than one such core, only the highest apply. A creature can only gain extra spell slots in this manner once each day, and cannot continually gain more spell slots by dropping and subsequently picking back up an Anarchic Core. A chaotic creature may gain higher level spell slots than spells he is able to cast. He may use these spells to cast lower level spells as normal, but does not gain any special ability to cast higher level spells than he ordinarily would be able to.

A lawful creature, on the other hand, suffers one temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from, as long as it remains in contact with the core.

An Anarchic Core may be detonated as a standard action. This results in a blast of raw, chaos energy in a radius equal 5ft × ½ the number of HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. This deals 1d6 magical damage to each creature within the radius per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Each such creature must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the creature's HD + the creature's Cha mod). A non-lawful creature that fails this save is Confused for 1 round per HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. A lawful creature that fails this save is Confused for the same period of time and also suffers one non-temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Creatures with the Chaotic subtype are immune to these effects.
Market Price: 8,000gp for 4+ HD, 20,000gp for 8+ HD, 50,000gp for 12+ HD, 125,000gp for 16+ HD, and 312,500gp for 20+ HD (and so on).

Angel Feather
Rarity: Uncommon
Info: Normally, when an Outsider is defeated its body disappears back to its native plane, but occasionally something is left behind. A slain Angel has a 20% chance to leave behind up to 1d10 Angel Feathers upon defeat. More rarely, a living Angel may give a single Angel Feather to another creature as a gift or token of friendship.
Effect: An Angel Feather's effect varies. If obtained from an Angel with less than 5 HD, the feather has no effect. If obtained from an Angel with at least 5 HD, the feather can be worn to produce a constant Aid effect, as the spell. If obtained from an Angel with at least 10 HD, the feather can be consumed to produce a Revivify effect, as the spell (and automatically will be consumed to target its wearer if its wearer is slain). If obtained from an Angel with at least 20 HD, the feather can be consumed to produce a True Resurrection effect, as the spell, though the remains must be intact and within reach (the feather will automatically be consumed to target its wearer if its wearer is slain).
Market Price: No effect, 100gp; Aid effect, 500gp; Revivify effect, 4,000gp; True Resurrection effect, 32,000gp.

Angelfire
Rarity: Rare
Info: Angelfire is a luminescent, oil-like substance that can be salvaged 1oz at a time only from the blood of creatures with both the Fire and Good subtypes. Roughly 1oz can be safely salvaged from a living creature per day through a ritual requiring 5 ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) 8 ranks in Heal and a DC 30 Heal check, while up to 1d6 oz can be salvaged from a slain creature.
Effect: 1oz of Angelfire can be spread on a weapon to imbue it with elemental power for 1d4 hours, making all damage dealt by the weapon Good-aligned and granting it the Flaming property. Against all evil creatures, the extra fire damage increases to 1d10, half of which is pure holy power and not subject to fire resistance.
Market Price: 1250gp/oz.

Ankheg Egg
Rarity: Uncommon
Info: These eggs, roughly twice the size of a chicken's egg, can be salvaged from female Ankhegs (Knowledge (Arcane) DC 18 to know which from which) once every 3 months. A pregnant female Ankheg will lay up to 1d6 eggs. Any slain Ankheg has a 20% chance to be a pregnant female. Salvaging eggs from a living female is not considered an Evil act and does not require a skill check, though salvaging from a dead Ankheg is difficult and must be done one egg at a time, using the Survival skill.
Effect: Eating an uncooked Ankheg Egg, though disgusting, provides the nourishment of a full meal and grants the eater Resistance to Acid 5 for 1 hour. However, the eater must succeed on a DC 14 Fortitude save to avoid being Sickened for 1d3×10 minutes. Otherwise, if left to hatch, a full-grown Ankheg can be reared and trained within a year or so.
Market Price: 300gp.

Axiomatic Core (Vital)
Rarity: Legendary
Info: A single Axiomatic Core can be salvaged from any dead or helpless Outsider with the Lawful subtype. Salvaging the core from a living creature always kills it.
Effect: A lawful creature holding an Axiomatic Core gains 5 temporary hit points and a +1 morale bonus to skill and ability checks as well as attack rolls and saving throws for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Furthermore, if the creature casts spells, it gains extra spell slots as if it were one level higher for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. These bonuses do not stack if a creature holds more than one such core, only the highest apply. A creature can only gain extra spell slots in this manner once each day, and cannot continually gain more spell slots by dropping and subsequently picking back up an Axiomatic Core. A lawful creature may gain higher level spell slots than spells he is able to cast. He may use these spells to cast lower level spells as normal, but does not gain any special ability to cast higher level spells than he ordinarily would be able to.

A chaotic creature, on the other hand, suffers one temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from, as long as it remains in contact with the core.

An Axiomatic Core may be detonated as a standard action. This results in a blast of raw lawful energy in a radius equal 5ft × ½ the number of HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. This deals 1d6 damage to each creature within the radius per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Each such creature must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the creature's HD + the creature's Cha mod). A non-chaotic creature that fails this save is Dazed for 1 round per HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. A chaotic creature that fails this save is Dazed for the same period of time and also suffers one non-temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Creatures with the lawful subtype are immune to these effects.
Market Price: 8,000gp for 4+ HD, 20,000gp for 8+ HD, 50,000gp for 12+ HD, 125,000gp for 16+ HD, and 312,500gp for 20+ HD (and so on).

Zombie Brain (Vital)
Rarity: Common
Info: A single Zombie Brain can be salvaged from any Zombie with a head.
Effect: When a Zombie Brain is consumed by a living creature (can be rushed as a full-round action), that creature must make a Will save (DC 10 + HD of the Zombie the brain was salvaged from) or gain the effects of a Barbarian's Rage for a number of rounds equal to 3 + his or her newly modified Constitution modifier (he or she may voluntarily fail this save). For the duration, the effected creature cannot speak, cannot cast spells, and cannot concentrate, and attacks the nearest creature at the beginning of its turns, regardless of friend or foe. After the Rage expires, the effected creature is Fatigued for the rest of the encounter and must succeed on a second Will save (DC 10 + HD of the Zombie) or be Shaken and Exhausted from the traumatic experience until he or she is able to get at least 1 hour of rest. Consuming a Zombie Brain does not provide a living creature any sustenance, but if eaten by an Undead creature, that creature regains 1 hit point per HD of the Zombie the brain was originally salvaged from.
Market Price: 300 GP.


...And more to come! Designing items like this is exhausting!


Item
Rarity:
Info:
Effect:
Market Price:

A
Animus Corpus, Astral Essence, Automata Gear

B
Balefire, Balor Nimbus, Beast Claw, Beast Fang, Beast Flesh, Beast Pelt, Black Fang, Black Vulcan

C
Chalcedony, Concussive Force, Copper Ore, Corrosive Jelly, Crocodile Tears

D
Demon Fang, Demon Heart, Devil Claw, Devil Heart, Dragon Bile, Dragon Blood, Dragon Bone, Dragon Claw, Dragon Fang, Dragon Flesh, Dragon Heart, Dragonscale, Dragon Skull, Dragon Wing, Dryad Bark, Dryad Blossom

E
Ectoplasm, Ether

F
Fardeep Filth, Fish Scales, Flare Core, Frost Core

G
Galvanic Core, Giant's Tooth, Glacial Core, Gold Ore, Golden Ice, Gorgon's Eye

H
Hag Eye, Hard Case, Hoarfrost

I
Infernal Ash, Iron Ore

K
Kraken Shell

L
Lifebolt, Lizardskin

M
Magewright Core, Magical Clay, Mithril Ore, Momento Mori

N
Necrotic Bile, Necrotic Claw, Necrotic Flesh, Nectar, Nymph's Flesh, Nymph's Heart

O
Ocean's Core, Orichalcon

P
Phoenix Pinion, Phylactery, Plasma Core, Platinum Ore, Poison Fang

R
Radiant Core, Rainbow Scales, Royal Jelly

S
Screechbox, Silver Ore, Slime Jelly, Soft Stone, Solar Corona, Sonic Boom, Sorcerer's Stone, Stardust, Storm Core

T
Tentacle, Terra Core

U
Umbral Core, Unicorn Horn

V
Vampire Fang, Vampire Wing

W
Weretooth

Z
Zephyr Core

JBPuffin
2013-12-07, 07:20 PM
You really have to wander why Wizards didn't have this already? Oh well, it seems very nice, flavorful and another reason to take the skill. My hat goes off to you, sir.

Passive Pete
2013-12-07, 07:32 PM
I like this quite a bit. I'd love to see this expanded a lot, and I might even make some of my own! Never really thought about stuff like this. I think it would be really cool if there was a Prestige Class that could engineer these or something.

I'd love to implement these in my campaigns!

TuggyNE
2013-12-07, 10:18 PM
Oh man, this is awesome.


The DM may also add between +/-2 and +/- 10 in circumstance modifiers as he sees fit based on other situations and conditions at hand.

I would suggest leaving this out, since it's little more than restating an existing general rule.


An especially well-preserved petrified tree can contain up to d% oz of Amber.

Should probably be 1d100 (equivalent, but makes more sense, since it's not a percentage but a whole number).

1
And one of my own, with a minor change at the end for subtyped creatures.
Axiomatic Core
Rarity: Legendary
Info: A single Axiomatic Core can be salvaged from any dead or helpless Outsider with the Lawful subtype. Salvaging the core from a living creature always kills it.
Effect: A lawful creature holding an Axiomatic Core gains 5 temporary hit points and a +1 morale bonus to skill and ability checks as well as attack rolls and saving throws for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Furthermore, if the creature casts spells, it gains extra spell slots as if it were one level higher for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. These bonuses do not stack if a creature holds more than one such core, only the highest apply. A creature can only gain extra spell slots in this manner once each day, and cannot continually gain more spell slots by dropping and subsequently picking back up an Axiomatic Core. A lawful creature may gain higher level spell slots than spells he is able to cast. He may use these spells to cast lower level spells as normal, but does not gain any special ability to cast higher level spells than he ordinarily would be able to.

A chaotic creature, on the other hand, suffers one temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from, as long as it remains in contact with the core.

An Axiomatic Core may be detonated as a standard action. This results in a blast of raw lawful energy in a radius equal 5ft × ½ the number of HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. This deals 1d6 damage to each creature within the radius per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Each such creature must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the creature's HD + the creature's Cha mod). A non-chaotic creature that fails this save is dazed for 1 round per HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. A chaotic creature that fails this save is dazed for the same period of time and also suffers one non-temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Creatures with the lawful subtype are immune to these effects.
Market Price: 8,000gp for 4HD, 20,000gp for 8HD, 50,000gp for 12 HD, 125,000gp for 16 HD, and 300,000gp for 20 HD.

Seerow
2013-12-07, 10:35 PM
So random thought occurred while reading these, this line stuck out at me:


Salvaging the core from a living creature always kills it.

It made me wonder, why would anybody salvage a core from a living creature, since killing them and extracting it has the same end result, and is doubtless easier?

So what if you had another modifier on the table, making it so extracting something like that from a creature while it's still alive and subdued/incapacitated is easier, but is one of those obviously evil acts a la BOVD, because you're essentially subjecting another creature to torture to make things a little easier on yourself.

Ziegander
2013-12-07, 10:36 PM
So random thought occurred while reading these, this line stuck out at me:



It made me wonder, why would anybody salvage a core from a living creature, since killing them and extracting it has the same end result, and is doubtless easier?

So what if you had another modifier on the table, making it so extracting something like that from a creature while it's still alive and subdued/incapacitated is easier, but is one of those obviously evil acts a la BOVD, because you're essentially subjecting another creature to torture to make things a little easier on yourself.

Not a bad thought, I may yet.


Oh man, this is awesome.

Thanks! It's been an idea I've kicked around for years but never properly put into words.


I would suggest leaving this out, since it's little more than restating an existing general rule.

Cool, cool, will do.


Should probably be 1d100 (equivalent, but makes more sense, since it's not a percentage but a whole number).

Yep, changed it.


And one of my own, with a minor change at the end for subtyped creatures.
Axiomatic Core
Rarity: Legendary
Info: A single Axiomatic Core can be salvaged from any dead or helpless Outsider with the Lawful subtype. Salvaging the core from a living creature always kills it.
Effect: A lawful creature holding an Axiomatic Core gains 5 temporary hit points and a +1 morale bonus to skill and ability checks as well as attack rolls and saving throws for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Furthermore, if the creature casts spells, it gains extra spell slots as if it were one level higher for every four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. These bonuses do not stack if a creature holds more than one such core, only the highest apply. A creature can only gain extra spell slots in this manner once each day, and cannot continually gain more spell slots by dropping and subsequently picking back up an Axiomatic Core. A lawful creature may gain higher level spell slots than spells he is able to cast. He may use these spells to cast lower level spells as normal, but does not gain any special ability to cast higher level spells than he ordinarily would be able to.

A chaotic creature, on the other hand, suffers one temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from, as long as it remains in contact with the core.

An Axiomatic Core may be detonated as a standard action. This results in a blast of raw lawful energy in a radius equal 5ft × ½ the number of HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. This deals 1d6 damage to each creature within the radius per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Each such creature must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the creature's HD + the creature's Cha mod). A non-chaotic creature that fails this save is dazed for 1 round per HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. A chaotic creature that fails this save is dazed for the same period of time and also suffers one non-temporary negative level per four HD of the creature the core was salvaged from. Creatures with the lawful subtype are immune to these effects.
Market Price: 8,000gp for 4HD, 20,000gp for 8HD, 50,000gp for 12 HD, 125,000gp for 16 HD, and 300,000gp for 20 HD.

Nice. :smallbiggrin:
Made some changes to the Anarchic Core as well to reflect yours, and I'll add yours to the OP.

EDIT: Oh, and for anyone interested in helping me flesh these out, here's the list I wrote up ages ago. It's far from complete, but at least you see where I'm coming from.

A
Aboleth Mucus, Adamantite, Admixture Core, Amber, Anarchic Core, Angel Feather, Angelfire, Ankheg Egg, Animus Corpus, Astral Essence, Automata Gear, Axiom Core

B
Balefire, Balor Nimbus, Beast Claw, Beast Fang, Beast Flesh, Beast Pelt, Black Fang, Black Vulcan

C
Chalcedony, Concussive Force, Copper Ore, Corrosive Jelly, Crocodile Tears

D
Demon Fang, Demon Heart, Devil Claw, Devil Heart, Dragon Bile, Dragon Blood, Dragon Bone, Dragon Claw, Dragon Fang, Dragon Flesh, Dragon Heart, Dragonscale, Dragon Skull, Dragon Wing, Dryad Bark, Dryad Blossom

E
Ectoplasm, Ether

F
Fardeep Filth, Fish Scales, Flare Core, Frost Core

G
Galvanic Core, Giant's Tooth, Glacial Core, Gold Ore, Golden Ice, Gorgon's Eye

H
Hag Eye, Hard Case, Hoarfrost

I
Infernal Ash, Iron Ore

K
Kraken Shell

L
Lifebolt, Lizardskin

M
Magewright Core, Magical Clay, Mithril Ore, Momento Mori

N
Necrotic Bile, Necrotic Claw, Necrotic Flesh, Nectar, Nymph's Flesh, Nymph's Heart

O
Ocean's Core, Orichalcon

P
Phoenix Pinion, Phylactery, Plasma Core, Platinum Ore, Poison Fang

R
Radiant Core, Rainbow Scales, Royal Jelly

S
Screechbox, Silver Ore, Slime Jelly, Soft Stone, Solar Corona, Sonic Boom, Sorcerer's Stone, Stardust, Storm Core

T
Tentacle, Terra Core

U
Umbral Core, Unicorn Horn

V
Vampire Fang, Vampire Wing

W
Weretooth

Z
Zephyr Core, Zombie Brain
Many of them are meant to have no effect in and of themselves (things like Beast's Claw and Fish Scales) but may be utilized by yet another system in the future (like a cool new crafting system a la Monster Hunter or something).

Seerow
2013-12-07, 11:26 PM
I'm assuming there's no real desire to stick to Wealth by Level with these, and normal treasure rates of enemies that can be harvested aren't something that needs to be considered?

Ziegander
2013-12-08, 06:47 AM
I'm assuming there's no real desire to stick to Wealth by Level with these, and normal treasure rates of enemies that can be harvested aren't something that needs to be considered?

Well, some amount of investment into the Survival skill should be rewarded (in much the same way that taking Item Creation feats should be rewarded) with some stretching of WBL, yes, but I wouldn't say that using Salvage should allow a player or party to totally disregard the WBL guidelines.

Normal treasure rates though definitely need not apply.

Seerow
2013-12-08, 12:46 PM
My assumption was based on a 4hd outsider giving like 8000gp for being harvested. Say you find an advanced Quasit with 4HD, that's a CR3 enemy, that can be easily taken down by a group of level 2-3 adventurers. If the group has the capability to make a DC31 Survival Check suddenly the party just got loot worth the full WBL for 4 3rd level characters just from that.

If that's considered balanced because DC31 is difficult to make at level 2-3 (though with that kind of payout, you bet my group would have someone dedicated to being awesome at it, and the rest of the group with enough to provide consistent aid anothers), then fast forward up to 12HD. A Bebilith is CR10, and could be a reasonable challenge for a group of level 8 characters. The DC to extract its core is 35. A level 8 character who can't reliably make a DC35 check isn't trying hard enough. Especially if there's any support casters in the party.

That nets the party 50,000 GP. Going between level 8 and 9, the group is expected to gain ~10,000 GP each. Basically this one piece of loot isn't just skewing the wealth distribution slightly, but completely giving them their expected loot for an entire level in a single item.

inuyasha
2013-12-08, 07:36 PM
Zombie Brain (vital)
Rarity: Common/Uncommon
Info: A Zombie brain can be gotten from any zombie of at least small size, small, medium, and large brains have one use, whereas a huge brain can be cut in half for 2 uses, a gargantuan for 4, and a colossal for 8
Effect:
When a zombie brain is consumed by a living creature, they must make a fortitude save (DC=10+HD of the zombie) or gain the effects of a barbarian rage for the next minute, they cannot speak, they cannot cast spells, and they cannot concentrate, they also cannot differentiate friend from foe. At the end of the duration the consumer must make a fortitude save (DC 5+HD of the zombie) or be sickened, frightened, and exhausted from the traumatic experience until he is calmed down by party members and is rested
Market Price: 2000 GP per number of uses of the brain

Was that good?

Coidzor
2013-12-08, 08:01 PM
Liking what I'm seeing so far.

Ziegander
2013-12-08, 08:17 PM
My assumption was based on a 4hd outsider giving like 8000gp for being harvested. Say you find an advanced Quasit with 4HD, that's a CR3 enemy, that can be easily taken down by a group of level 2-3 adventurers. If the group has the capability to make a DC31 Survival Check suddenly the party just got loot worth the full WBL for 4 3rd level characters just from that.

If that's considered balanced because DC31 is difficult to make at level 2-3 (though with that kind of payout, you bet my group would have someone dedicated to being awesome at it, and the rest of the group with enough to provide consistent aid anothers), then fast forward up to 12HD. A Bebilith is CR10, and could be a reasonable challenge for a group of level 8 characters. The DC to extract its core is 35. A level 8 character who can't reliably make a DC35 check isn't trying hard enough. Especially if there's any support casters in the party.

That nets the party 50,000 GP. Going between level 8 and 9, the group is expected to gain ~10,000 GP each. Basically this one piece of loot isn't just skewing the wealth distribution slightly, but completely giving them their expected loot for an entire level in a single item.

Sound analysis. The first obvious question is, "do you think the Anarchic Core is worth that much gp?" If not, then we can lower it, perhaps to a more respectable level. If yes, then I'll have to change the item.

I appreciate the criticism. Item creation is definitely a new science for me.


Zombie Brain (vital)
Rarity: Common/Uncommon
Info: A Zombie brain can be gotten from any zombie of at least small size, small, medium, and large brains have one use, whereas a huge brain can be cut in half for 2 uses, a gargantuan for 4, and a colossal for 8
Effect:
When a zombie brain is consumed by a living creature, they must make a fortitude save (DC=10+HD of the zombie) or gain the effects of a barbarian rage for the next minute, they cannot speak, they cannot cast spells, and they cannot concentrate, they also cannot differentiate friend from foe. At the end of the duration the consumer must make a fortitude save (DC 5+HD of the zombie) or be sickened, frightened, and exhausted from the traumatic experience until he is calmed down by party members and is rested
Market Price: 2000 GP per number of uses of the brain

Was that good?

I love it! I'll need to tweak it some, and I definitely think it's worth too much for the effect, but it's totally cool.


Liking what I'm seeing so far.

Thank you. :)

inuyasha
2013-12-08, 08:18 PM
By the way, you don't care if I help out a bunch right? This seems like a fun new concept :)

Ziegander
2013-12-08, 08:19 PM
By the way, you don't care if I help out a bunch right? This seems like a fun new concept :)

Not at all! Help out as much as you want! I appreciate it! :smalltongue:

inuyasha
2013-12-08, 08:25 PM
have another one then :)
Hotshot Core (Vital)
Rarity: Rare
Info: A hotshot core may be harvested from any construct with the fire subtype
Effect: A warforged (or other living construct/construct) can affix a hotshot core to their chest, which makes it rapidly start to spin, spark and glow red. The warforged is then affected by a haste spell and a heat metal spell for the next 7 rounds, the hotshot core then burns out, turning into a disk of useless slag.
Market Price: 600 GP


Animus Corpus
Rarity: Very rare
Info: Animus Corpus is a silvery black liquid that can sometimes be found in the negative energy plane, it flows extraordinarily fast, bonding to corpses like glue
Effect: When a vial of Animus Corpus is poured onto a corpse, the corps comes to life (exactly as it was in life) for one minute, but it's voice seems hollow and echo-y, and what it sees is the plane it is on in the afterlife, not what is really around it in the material plane. The corpse is alive for 2 minutes, then it begins to twist and rot as the life leaves its body, and it gains the zombie template. After this zombie is killed, the corpse cannot be reanimated again, and if done quickly (within 3 rounds of the zombies collapse) the Animus Corpus can be re harvested with a successful scavenge check at a -5 penalty.
Market Price: ??

Seerow
2013-12-08, 08:45 PM
Sound analysis. The first obvious question is, "do you think the Anarchic Core is worth that much gp?" If not, then we can lower it, perhaps to a more respectable level. If yes, then I'll have to change the item.

I appreciate the criticism. Item creation is definitely a new science for me.

It really depends, do you want to prioritize your fluff or the crunch of WBL? My initial assumption was WBL would go out the window with this, but you've since indicated otherwise.

In that case, your best bet would be to come up with a formula dependent on the CR of the creature you harvest from (with stuff like ore veins having a preset level in their description), include a modifier for item quality (ie Rare item worth less than Legendary), and price things according to that. In that case I'd suggest starting with looking at WBL tables closely, determining the expected wealth gain of a single character for a level. Then make a creature of that CR provide something like 1-2% for a common item, 3-5% for an uncommon, 5-10% for a rare item, and 10-15% for a legendary item. Ideally you want to find a formula that ties it all together nicely, but worst case scenario you can make a chart and/or calculate it individually for each item.

As an example, looking back at the Anarchic Core. One off a CR4 [Chaotic] Outsider is a legendary item worth about 15% of what a character gains between level 3 and 4. That translates into roughly 400 gold. Still a nice chunk of change, but not nearly as game breaking. By comparison a CR1 legendary item (say a level 1 outsider core just as an example) would be worth about 30gp, a CR1/4 common item (ie something like a kobold ear) would be worth only 1gp.



If you want to keep with fluff primarily (ie some creatures are rarer, and thus more valuable even if they come off something that is objectively easier to kill and/or are easier to harvest), then your current tactic of assigning values based on whim works, but you're going to have to accept that WBL will quickly have no meaning. At that point, you really need your Monster Hunter item creation system, and then survival becomes a mandatory party skill to maintain effectiveness as you go on.

The only real way to avoid that is if you have some other limiter to magic items beyond what you have available, and characters are expected to find enough magic items to max out normally, in which case all of the money and monster parts are nice for extra versatility (more items to choose from!) or side perks (sell all the stuff, buy castles and live in the lap of luxury!). But even then few characters are going to pass up that big a source of wealth/power. Not when killing people and taking their stuff is their job.

Seerow
2013-12-08, 09:01 PM
Actually let's go ahead and take a look at how this might work out.

Level 0: 0g
Level 1: +200g
Level 2: +700g
Level 3: +1800g
Level 4: +2700g
Level 5: +3600g
Level 6: +4000g
Level 7: +6000g
Level 8: +8000g
Level 9: +9000g
Level 10: +13,000g
Level 11: +17,000g
Level 12: +22,000g
Level 13: +22,000g
Level 14: +40,000g
Level 15: +50,000g
Level 16: +60,000g
Level 17: +80,000g
Level 18: +100,000g
Level 19: +140,000g
Level 20: +180,000g

Oh yeah, that's why I never did anything like this before. WBL is 100% frikken arbitrary. There is no rhyme or reason for half of these numbers. There is no way a standard formula could actually hit every point on this line and still be something simple enough to be sensible for regular use. Seriously, who came up with this? Obviously someone who hates math and anyone with OCD tendencies, that's who. The one that bugs me the most is level 12 and 13. Two levels in a row with the exact same gain made me go back and double check, certain I had done some subtraction wrong, read something wrong, something. But no. 22k gain at each level. Why?!

Looking at it I can almost see a pattern of every 4 levels = x3 (6 to 10 is 4000 to 13,000. 10 to 14 is 13,000 to 40,000. 16 to 20 is 60,000 to 180,000), but there's a lot of points where that breaks down, most obviously at low levels (going from 2 to 6 is closer to x6 than x4. 1 to 2 is x3 by itself!). I dunno, I have no idea how to salvage any remotely consistent equation that will work out of this mess.

Ziegander
2013-12-08, 09:15 PM
I dunno, I have no idea how to salvage any remotely consistent equation that will work out of this mess.

You must not have enough ranks in Survival, Seerow. But seriously, I will probably just wing it and say WBL be damned!! I have increased the check DCs and will likely change the Anarchic/Axiomatic Cores since they are the clear outliers at the moment. I feel like the effect is worth the money, so I guess I'll nerf the effect and reduce the market price.

inuyasha
2013-12-08, 09:21 PM
You must not have enough ranks in Survival, Seerow. But seriously, I will probably just wing it and say WBL be damned!! I have increased the check DCs and will likely change the Anarchic/Axiomatic Cores since they are the clear outliers at the moment. I feel like the effect is worth the money, so I guess I'll nerf the effect and reduce the market price.

So how are my 2 new items? Item creation is a bit new to me too

Ziegander
2013-12-08, 09:23 PM
So how are my 2 new items? Item creation is a bit new to me too

I like Hotshot Core. Are there any Constructs with the Fire subtype?

Animus Corpus just isn't exactly what I had in mind for that particular item, though, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure what that is... per se.

inuyasha
2013-12-08, 09:25 PM
I like Hotshot Core. Are there any Constructs with the Fire subtype?

Animus Corpus just isn't exactly what I had in mind for that particular item, though, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure what that is... per se.

Well, if there isn't I can make some

and I just kind of cobbled the second one together, so have it anyway :)

EDIT: and the answer is no, there are no 1st party fire constructs as far as the internet can find

Seerow
2013-12-08, 09:37 PM
You must not have enough ranks in Survival, Seerow. But seriously, I will probably just wing it and say WBL be damned!! I have increased the check DCs and will likely change the Anarchic/Axiomatic Cores since they are the clear outliers at the moment. I feel like the effect is worth the money, so I guess I'll nerf the effect and reduce the market price.

Yeah I spent some more time trying to come up with an approximation... I thought I had something close, but I wound up significantly ahead for about half the levels, and then fell off hard in the last few levels. Seriously that jump between 340k at level 17 and 760k at level 20 is absurd. Without rewriting the WBL rules, seems like winging it is about the best you're going to get.

Just as a rough guideline though, I'd go for something like CR^2 * 5 for a common item, with a x2/x4/x8 multiplier for each step up above common. So a CR4 common item is 80gp, a legendary CR4 item is worth 640g. A CR 1 common item is 5gp. Possibly include an increased modifier for anything above CR14 or so, to account for how ridiculous those actually are.

Items that have immediate uses (such as the Angel Feather) instead can be priced as though a magic item corresponding with it (so the Angel Feather is priced a la scroll of Revivify/Resurrection, possibly increased in value due to lack of restrictions on who can use it and easier activation).



I like Hotshot Core. Are there any Constructs with the Fire subtype?


Even if there aren't any, I am certain there are plenty of templates out there that apply the Fire Subtype to the target creature. At least one has to be compatible with a Construct.

Because a flaming golem is too cool not to exist somewhere.

inuyasha
2013-12-09, 10:23 AM
Hags eye
Rarity: Rare
Info: A Hags eye can be taken from any hag of course, and it is literally their eye, not a seeing crystal thingy
Effect: When powdered and breathed, a hags eye causes a dramatic increase in brain function in people, granting a +4 to intelligence for one minute, but when it wears off, the user seems to sag, deflate, and not be very energetic, taking a -2 to charisma and dexterity for the next hour
Market Price: 200 GP

Coidzor
2013-12-09, 11:29 PM
Even if there aren't any, I am certain there are plenty of templates out there that apply the Fire Subtype to the target creature. At least one has to be compatible with a Construct.

Because a flaming golem is too cool not to exist somewhere.

IIRC, Sacred Guardians from Bestiary of Krynn confer a subtype if the domain matches the subtype, like if they are associated with the Fire Domain, then they get the fire sub type.