Pathfinder E6 Capstones [PEACH]

[Maxymiuk]

I'm currently preparing for running an E6 campaign in Pathfinder and one of the things I did in the process was taking a look at the class capstones. Since the system gives feats out at odd levels, I've decided to turn capstones into class abilities rather than feats -- and also to give (almost) every class a choice between one of two abilities.

You'll find these capstones below and the feedback I'm asking for is whether or not these seem either underpowered or overpowered -- and whether any given choice for a class is obviously superior, to the point where you'd always pick one over the other.


Capstones

Alchemist

Alchemical Genius (Su)
Prerequisite: Alchemist 6
Benefit: You are considered a level 8 alchemist for the purpose of gaining new discoveries.

Or

Mad Bomber (Su)
Prerequisite: Alchemist 6
Benefit: You can throw one additional bomb per round (as the Fast Bombs discovery). Throwing the second bomb still incurs a -5 attack penalty.


Barbarian

Barbaric Resilience (Ex)
Prerequisite: Barbarian 6
Benefit: You gain DR 2/--

Or

Mightier Rage (Ex)
Prerequisite: Barbarian 6
Benefit: You are considered a level 8 barbarian for the purpose of gaining new rage powers.


Bard

Beacon of Inspiration (Su)
Prerequisite: Bard 6
Benefit: You gain the use of the Inspire Greatness bardic performance. This ability can only be used once per day, regardless of how many rounds of bardic performance you have left.

Or

Maestro (Ex)
Prerequisite: Bard 6
Benefit: You are treated as having 2 more points in all your Perform skills for the purpose of meeting prerequisites for gaining new Masterpieces. This ability also immediately grants you the knowledge of one Masterpiece you meet the prerequisites for.


Cavalier

Knight of the Order (Ex)
Prerequisite: Cavalier 6
Benefit: You gain your order's 8th level ability.

Or

Tactical Study (Ex)
Prerequisite: Cavalier 6
Benefit: You gain the Greater Tactician class ability.


Cleric

Extra Domain (Su)
Prerequisite: Cleric 6
Benefit: You gain an extra domain from your deity's portfolio. This includes both the domain power and its list of spells.

Or

Fortified Faith (Su)
Prerequisite: Cleric 6
Benefit: You count as being two levers higher for the purpose of obtaining domain powers. However, this benefit only applies to a single domain.


Druid

Greater Wildshape (Ex)
Prerequisite: Druid 6
Benefit: Choose a single beast shape III, elemental body II, or plant shape I form you'd ordinarily get access to at level 8. You can now turn into that form as part of your Wildshape ability.

Or

Superior Bond (Ex)
Prerequisite: Druid 6
Benefit: For druids who chose the domain option of the natural bond, treat this as the cleric's Fortified Faith capstone. For druids with an animal companion, the animal companion gains Multiattack.


Fighter

Extensive Training (Ex)
Prerequisite: Fighter 6
Benefit: You can move at your normal speed in heavy armor and you receive the benefit of the Weapon Training class feature. The latter applies even if you have an archetype that otherwise replaces Weapon Training.

Or

Martial Veteran (Ex)
Prerequisite: Fighter 6
Benefit: You are treated as being a level 8 fighter and having a Base Attack Bonus of +8 for the purpose of gaining new feats.


Gunslinger

Calm Under Fire (Ex)
Prerequisite: Gunslinger 6
Benefit: You gain Nimble +3 and the Expert Loading deed.

Or

Great Deeds (Ex)
Prerequisite: Gunslinger 6
Benefit: You gain the ability to use a single 7th level deed.


Inquisitor

Hale Body, Hale Mind (Ex)
Prerequisite: Inquisitor 6
Benefit: You gain the Stalwart class ability, however it applies only to Fortitude or Will saves. You must choose one or the other upon gaining this ability.

Or

Harsh Judge (Su)
Prerequisite: Inquisitor 6
Benefit: You can use the Second Judgment class ability once per day.


Magus

Armored Magic (Ex)
Prerequisite: Magus 6
Benefit: You gain the Medium Armor class feature.

Or

Studied Magus (Su)
Prerequisite: Magus 6
Benefit: You gain the Knowledge Pool class feature.


Monk

Hardened Strikes (Su)
Prerequisite: Monk 6
Benefit: Your fists are treated as being cold iron and silver weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR, as long as you have at least one point of Ki remaining. Furthermore, your damage die for unarmed attacks increases to 1d10.

Or

Weaving Style (Ex)
Prerequisite: Monk 6
Benefit: You gain Improved Evasion.


Oracle

Revealed Metamagic (Ex)
Prerequisite: Oracle 6
Benefit: You gain one 4th level spell slot for the purpose of casting spells with metamagic applied to them. This slot does not allow you to gain additional 4th level spells or slots through the use of Expanded Knowledge and Expanded Casting feats.

Or

Revealed Power (Su)
Prerequisite: Oracle 6
Benefit: You are treated as being level 8 for the purpose of gaining additional benefits from the revelations you know.


Paladin

Merciful Touch (Su)
Prerequisite: Paladin 6
Benefit: You gain a bonus mercy. You can select from among 9th level mercies.

Or

Strengthened Bond (Su)
Prerequisite: Paladin 6
Benefit: If you have previously chosen the weapon bond option, you gain an additional +1 enhancement bonus to the bond. If you have chosen the mount, the mount gains Multiattack.


Ranger

Step of the Wild Lands (Ex)
Prerequisite: Ranger 6
Benefit: You gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracker class abilities.

Or

Evasive Stride (Ex)
Prerequisite: Ranger 6
Benefit: You gain Evasion.


Rogue

On Edge (Ex)
Prerequisite: Rogue 6
Benefit: You gain Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Or

Talented (Ex)
Prerequisite: Rogue 6
Benefit: Gain one advanced rogue talent that you meet the prerequisites for.


Sorcerer

Manifest Bloodline (Ex)
Prerequisite: Sorcerer 6
Benefit: You gain a bloodline feat and a bloodline spell you'd ordinarily obtain at level 7.

Or

Surging Bloodline (Ex)
Prerequisite: Sorcerer 6
Benefit: You gain your bloodline's 9th level power.


Summoner

Aspected Summoner (Su)
Prerequisite: Summoner 6
Benefit: You gain the Aspect class ability. Note that this may cause your eidolon to lose a previously gained evolution.

Or

Swapper (Su)
Prerequisite: Summoner 6
Benefit: You gain the Transposition class ability.


Witch

Practiced Curse Maker (Su)
Prerequisite: Witch 6
Benefit: Once per day, you can apply the benefits of the Spell Perfection feat to casting the Bestow Curse spell.

Or

Spellbrewer (Ex)
Prerequisite: Witch 6
Benefit: You gain one 4th level spell slot for the purpose of casting spells with metamagic applied to them. This slot does not allow you to gain additional 4th level spells or slots through the use of Expanded Knowledge and Expanded Casting feats.


Wizard

Arcane Scholar (Ex)
Prerequisite: Wizard 6
Benefit: You gain your arcane school's 8th level ability.

Or

Superior Bonder (Ex)
Prerequisite: Wizard 6
Benefit: If you chose a familiar as part of your Arcane Bond ability, it gains Spell Resistance 11. If you chose an object, you are treated as having CL 8 for the purpose of enhancing it.



Specific issues I'm still torn on:

The fighter's Extensive Training ability seems too weak compared to Martial Veteran and I don't really know how to fix this due to his general lack of class features.
For the ranger, it was a tossup between the two abilities I went with and giving him a second favored terrain, but without granting an extra +2 to one or the other he'd get in a regular game. I'm still not sure if I made the right choice.
Giving the inquisitor Second Judgment may be too powerful, I think. I built this list with the help of a friend of mine and it just happens to be his favorite class, so his opinion on this may have been a wee bit biased.


I of course welcome suggestions for any possible additions or replacements.

[Der_DWSage]

I'd run into some similar issues last session, when my own P6 campaign finally hit level 6. The P6 codex has some decent stuff...but it's all for the core 11.

With that in mind, I think I can offer some productive feedback.


Mad Bomber:It feels...odd that you bump the Alchemist all the way up to 5d6, while the Rogue is only able to get 4d6. I'd say keep Mad Bomber as a mere Epic feat, rather than a signature capstone. If you want to make the Bombs more of a signature thing, allow them to throw two bombs per round, as if he had Fast Bombs and 6 BAB.

Alchemical Genius:Nothing wrong here, though I'd recommend letting them also take a Discovery when they reach this feat.


Improved DR:Feels a bit odd they're getting DR 2/-. In an E6 game, that's a significant amount of reduction. Then again, balancing that against some of the 8th level rage powers, that may be worth the boost.

Rage Power:Nothing special here. The general rule of thumb is to give them a 7-9th level thing.


Ah, here we get to our first real disagreement. Let's see...

Bardic Knack:It's...honestly rather meh? It's 6th level, so that's the point when you more or less stop getting skill points. Not to mention that a Bard already has a pretty healthy skill list to start with. It breaks the tradition of 7-9th level effects, but I allowed my own party Bard to take 10 on all Charisma-based checks instead (Similar to the 19th level effect, but more limited) and it seems to be working fine.

Dirge of Doom:I've got to fervently disagree with this one. That's definitely a no-brainer to not take. I'd recommend instead allowing them the Inspire Greatness song OR counting as having an additional rank in every Perform skill, up to a max of 8, allowing them to take the various Masterpieces. Dirge of Doom rarely fits a Bard concept, whereas several other Masterpieces fit quite nicely. And in E6, Inspire Greatness is incredibly relevant.


I'm honestly not familiar enough with the class to say. I've always felt they were incredibly underwhelming, and most of my gaming buddies agree-so we've never played one.


Extra Domain & Fortified Faith:On the one hand, Clerics don't do enough with their domains. On the other hand...it just feels odd that both of them relate to domains. The capstones themselves feel alright, it just feels like you're lacking variety. (Granted, my answer to this wasn't anything special-they could take an improved domain power, or be treated as 8th level in regards to channeling power and DC.)


Plant Shape:First of all, Wildshape is (SU), so you may want to change that tag. Second of all, this is the decision of yours I find most baffling of all-they can take Plant Shape I, but not Elemental Body II or Animal Form III? There's no question here whatsoever-Plant Shape I is weak, comparatively. I'd take an improved animal companion anytime. Why not allow them the choice of one of three to focus on?

Superior Bond:Seems good.


Nothing out of place here. Don't undervalue the merit of moving at normal speed in heavy armor, either. Still, there's some good feats that only come online at BAB 8, including the ever-beloved Improved Critical.

But I have to ask a question-does Martial Veteran interact with Combat Aptitude (+1 to your BAB, epic feat) at all, allowing you to take BAB 9 feats? It'd be worth clarifying either way.


I have too much hatred for Gunslingers to be fair on this one, but it seems alright.


Looks good mate. I like the limited Stalwart ability too.


Hey, we made the exact same call here. Only feedback I can offer here is that the Magus in my group practically begged for medium armor, but that's a sample group of one.


Excelling Flurry:+1 to hit with one attack in flurry and the option to take some not-all-that-impressive feats in a subsystem full of them...or Improved Evasion? Never a question. I'd recommend you go with the other half of Monk things-allowing their fists to overcome Cold Iron and Silver DR, and maaaaaybe upping their damage die to a D10 so they have a more constant effect in addition to overcoming DR.

Weaving Style:Hey, Monks could use that love.


Here's another spot where we disagreed, but in a different way...

Revealed metamagic:I'd have to say that, as a player, I wouldn't take this one. Other opinions may differ, but it overlaps too neatly with other feats available in P6, and thus is overshadowed by them. It doesn't feel special enough.

Revealed Power:Another interesting choice. Why a single 9th-level power...instead of treating them as level 8 or 9 in regards to choosing new revelations?


Looks good to me.


Lacking as Ranger is, they might need a boost with the first feat-perhaps using the Monk capstone you had earlier, and allowing Rangers to qualify for those feats they otherwise wouldn't.

But as is, it seems acceptable. Evasion would always be my choice, but that's personal preference.


Talented:Seems legit to me.

I'm going to assume the other capstone will come later, but I would recommend allowing them to have Improved Uncanny Dodge. A Rogue who's always so on edge that they can't be sneak attacked? Delicious.


No issues here.


No issues here.


Practiced Hexer:I'd recommend against this one, strongly. There's laughably weak hexes mixed in with frightfully strong ones. The former make people feel like they wasted their capstone when it seemed like a good idea to start with, while the latter will make others feel underwhelming. Things like Delicious Fright should not be bumping shoulders with Ice Tomb.

The alternative I took-and it's worked out for two sessions-is to allow the Witch to essentially have the Perfect Spell feat applied to Bestow Curse. A single metamagic feat for free, once a day, isn't so bad.

Spellbrewer:See above with the Oracle.


Arcane Scholar:No issues here.

Metamage:Once again, I have to say it's too easily overshadowed. It doesn't feel unique. Why not something playing with Arcane Bond, instead? Consider them an 8th level caster in regards to augmenting their item, or allowing their Familiars SR 11.

[Maxymiuk]

Ok, I finally got some free time to go over the (much appreciated feedback).




Mad Bomber:It feels...odd that you bump the Alchemist all the way up to 5d6, while the Rogue is only able to get 4d6. I'd say keep Mad Bomber as a mere Epic feat, rather than a signature capstone. If you want to make the Bombs more of a signature thing, allow them to throw two bombs per round, as if he had Fast Bombs and 6 BAB.

Alchemical Genius:Nothing wrong here, though I'd recommend letting them also take a Discovery when they reach this feat.


Alchemical genius: As I mentioned, these capstones are treated as class abilities rather than feats due to Pathfinder only awarding feats at odd levels, and the Alchemist already.

Mad Bomber: After some thought, I do agree that my suggestion is a bit too powerful. Fast Bombs does sound right, though I'll probably apply a -2 to all attacks made this round while using the ability.




Improved DR:Feels a bit odd they're getting DR 2/-. In an E6 game, that's a significant amount of reduction. Then again, balancing that against some of the 8th level rage powers, that may be worth the boost.

Rage Power:Nothing special here. The general rule of thumb is to give them a 7-9th level thing.


Yeah, giving the barbarian DR 2/- was a conscious choice of upping his power, since I don't feel like DR 1/- from the original E6 measures up against rage powers.




Ah, here we get to our first real disagreement. Let's see...

Bardic Knack:It's...honestly rather meh? It's 6th level, so that's the point when you more or less stop getting skill points. Not to mention that a Bard already has a pretty healthy skill list to start with. It breaks the tradition of 7-9th level effects, but I allowed my own party Bard to take 10 on all Charisma-based checks instead (Similar to the 19th level effect, but more limited) and it seems to be working fine.

Dirge of Doom:I've got to fervently disagree with this one. That's definitely a no-brainer to not take. I'd recommend instead allowing them the Inspire Greatness song OR counting as having an additional rank in every Perform skill, up to a max of 8, allowing them to take the various Masterpieces. Dirge of Doom rarely fits a Bard concept, whereas several other Masterpieces fit quite nicely. And in E6, Inspire Greatness is incredibly relevant.


Bard was definitely the first class that gave me problems -- it doesn't help that the original E6 has no Bard-specific capstones to give me something to work with.

I do like the idea with Masterpieces, though I'd have to think on the exact wording, and I do think that Inspire Greatness would make a good second option, though I'd have to think about limiting it somehow, since giving the martial class an effective 2 levels is a bit OP at 6th level.




I'm honestly not familiar enough with the class to say. I've always felt they were incredibly underwhelming, and most of my gaming buddies agree-so we've never played one.


The Cavalier biggest problem is that he requires a slightly different party composition from your default tank, rogue, cleric, wizard, or the Leadership feat in order to have someone to use all those teamwork feats on. The abilities are gave him are, if anything, in keeping with the "let's give the class their level 8 ability" philosophy.




Extra Domain & Fortified Faith:On the one hand, Clerics don't do enough with their domains. On the other hand...it just feels odd that both of them relate to domains. The capstones themselves feel alright, it just feels like you're lacking variety. (Granted, my answer to this wasn't anything special-they could take an improved domain power, or be treated as 8th level in regards to channeling power and DC.)


Blame the Cleric's lack of class features for this one. I work with the tools I've been given -- though bumping up their channeling ability might be a good idea.




Plant Shape:First of all, Wildshape is (SU), so you may want to change that tag. Second of all, this is the decision of yours I find most baffling of all-they can take Plant Shape I, but not Elemental Body II or Animal Form III? There's no question here whatsoever-Plant Shape I is weak, comparatively. I'd take an improved animal companion anytime. Why not allow them the choice of one of three to focus on?

Superior Bond:Seems good.


Good point about the Plant Shape. Giving a choice will probably work, though at that point I may limit the character to choosing a single specific type of animal or elemental.




Nothing out of place here. Don't undervalue the merit of moving at normal speed in heavy armor, either. Still, there's some good feats that only come online at BAB 8, including the ever-beloved Improved Critical.

But I have to ask a question-does Martial Veteran interact with Combat Aptitude (+1 to your BAB, epic feat) at all, allowing you to take BAB 9 feats? It'd be worth clarifying either way.


Not sure where Combat Aptitude is from -- never saw it before in any E6 handbook and a quick Google search does not give me anything relevant.




Hey, we made the exact same call here. Only feedback I can offer here is that the Magus in my group practically begged for medium armor, but that's a sample group of one.


The class does typically gain Medium Armor at level 7, and it is a fairly important class feature, so...




Excelling Flurry:+1 to hit with one attack in flurry and the option to take some not-all-that-impressive feats in a subsystem full of them...or Improved Evasion? Never a question. I'd recommend you go with the other half of Monk things-allowing their fists to overcome Cold Iron and Silver DR, and maaaaaybe upping their damage die to a D10 so they have a more constant effect in addition to overcoming DR.

Weaving Style:Hey, Monks could use that love.


Excelling Flurry was a decision made based on the original E6 capstone. Upon reflection, it does seem kind of meh when compared against the other classes. Giving the monk ways to overcome DR is an idea I like.




Here's another spot where we disagreed, but in a different way...

Revealed metamagic:I'd have to say that, as a player, I wouldn't take this one. Other opinions may differ, but it overlaps too neatly with other feats available in P6, and thus is overshadowed by them. It doesn't feel special enough.

Revealed Power:Another interesting choice. Why a single 9th-level power...instead of treating them as level 8 or 9 in regards to choosing new revelations?


My choices were caused mostly by not having much experience with oracles. Your latter idea is probably the better one. As for Revealed Metamagic (and the sister abilities from the Witch and the Wizard) -- what would you suggest instead?




Lacking as Ranger is, they might need a boost with the first feat-perhaps using the Monk capstone you had earlier, and allowing Rangers to qualify for those feats they otherwise wouldn't.

But as is, it seems acceptable. Evasion would always be my choice, but that's personal preference.


By qualifying for feats, do you mean give them access to their style's 10th level feat selection?




Talented:Seems legit to me.

I'm going to assume the other capstone will come later, but I would recommend allowing them to have Improved Uncanny Dodge. A Rogue who's always so on edge that they can't be sneak attacked? Delicious.


Improved Uncanny Dodge seems like a good idea.




Practiced Hexer:I'd recommend against this one, strongly. There's laughably weak hexes mixed in with frightfully strong ones. The former make people feel like they wasted their capstone when it seemed like a good idea to start with, while the latter will make others feel underwhelming. Things like Delicious Fright should not be bumping shoulders with Ice Tomb.

The alternative I took-and it's worked out for two sessions-is to allow the Witch to essentially have the Perfect Spell feat applied to Bestow Curse. A single metamagic feat for free, once a day, isn't so bad.

Spellbrewer:See above with the Oracle.


Spell Perfection, you mean? I looked it over and it does look good.




Arcane Scholar:No issues here.

Metamage:Once again, I have to say it's too easily overshadowed. It doesn't feel unique. Why not something playing with Arcane Bond, instead? Consider them an 8th level caster in regards to augmenting their item, or allowing their Familiars SR 11.

I'll take a look at Arcane Bond, but it does sound like a good substitue.


Once again, thank you for your input. I'll mull these over tonight and see about editing the OP sometime tomorrow.

[Maxymiuk]

OP edited to include some of the suggestions made by Der_DWSage. More input is always welcome. :smallsmile:

[The Cats]

Well, I was going to PEACH but Mr. Sage up there covered literally everything I made notes about. And then some. Even a lot of the suggestions are similar. Spooky.

[G.Cube]

I'm afraid I'm not super familiar with Pathfinder, but I -really- enjoyed this list, enough in fact that I will most likely adopt it to my 3.5 E6 games. It honestly seems like a well balanced list to me. I didn't see anything that, as a 3.5 play, seemed even close to out of whack. I wish I could offer my creative altenatives, seeing as you seem to have a lot of "Pretend you're level eight for qualifying for things" on here, but I'm not at all familiar with the different versions PF has of each class. I may do some quick reading later this week, seeing as PF is Open Source, and come back with some actual suggestions. Honestly though, I -really- like this as is. Cheers!