Dealing with "problem" players for a newbie DM?

[Silus]

Ok, so I'm a new'ish DM, just finished a campaign a few months back and I'm trying to prep Act 2. But as I think about it and the group, the less I want to run a game for them.

The issue is, IMO, they're kinda jerks.

Now, I started tabletop games a few years back, around...2010, 2011 or so. Small group that ended up doing kinda wacky adventures. We all had enough sense not to run game-breaking characters or exploit a DMs newness and were generally good to each other. I myself have only DMed two campaigns, the second being the one that ended a few months ago.

Now the group. All veterans save for one and myself. They have decades of experience on me and are generally better than me at...just about everything regarding TTGs. So, naturally, I wanted to try and show them that I could DM, and they, apparently, sought to tear me down.

To elaborate, I was looking to create my own homebrew world, because hey, you gotta start somewhere. From what I gathered, homebrew worlds take years to perfect, and I felt that starting now would be better than starting later. Anyway, the questions. Oh GOD the questions. Just picking apart the fledgling world THAT I KNOW HAS PROBLEMS with questions that I've not begun to consider and that don't have any relevance to the plot at hand.

Then there are the characters (They just about all played evil characters), the taking advantage of a new DM with a new group (Like not saying "Hey, I know you're new, but this is a bad idea, you may want to rethink this") and the general not throwing me a friggin' bone when things go off the rails and I can't for the life of me figure out how to get them back on without outright forcing them. Like literal "Oh the plot's that way? We're gonna go waaaaaaay over there" kind of derailment when you have nothing planned out "waaaaaaay over there".

So what I'm asking is, what should I do? Go with my gut and NOT run another campaign for them and save a revised Act 1 and new Act 2 for a more newbie friendly group, or try to talk to them and see if they can actually help me instead of, well, not?

[kyoryu]

Talk to them? Explain that your perception is that they're trying to take advantage of how you're running the game and your inexperience, and that you're not interested in running a game under those conditions.

They can either then explain any miscommunication, agree to what you're asking, or not. And you can decide to run the game, or not.

Another thought might be to use a system that's less open to charop shenanigans and the like.

[Grinner]

Ok, so I'm a new'ish DM, just finished a campaign a few months back and I'm trying to prep Act 2. But as I think about it and the group, the less I want to run a game for them.

The issue is, IMO, they're kinda jerks.

You've already got one foot in the DM burnout grave. Keep this in mind.


To elaborate, I was looking to create my own homebrew world, because hey, you gotta start somewhere. From what I gathered, homebrew worlds take years to perfect, and I felt that starting now would be better than starting later. Anyway, the questions. Oh GOD the questions. Just picking apart the fledgling world THAT I KNOW HAS PROBLEMS with questions that I've not begun to consider and that don't have any relevance to the plot at hand.

Have you explicitly told this to them?


Then there are the characters (They just about all played evil characters), the taking advantage of a new DM with a new group (Like not saying "Hey, I know you're new, but this is a bad idea, you may want to rethink this") and the general not throwing me a friggin' bone when things go off the rails and I can't for the life of me figure out how to get them back on without outright forcing them. Like literal "Oh the plot's that way? We're gonna go waaaaaaay over there" kind of derailment when you have nothing planned out "waaaaaaay over there".

This is an important lesson: "Never plan ahead". Have an idea of where you want to go, but only an idea. Know who the movers and shakers are, know what they want to do, and know how they plan to do it. Leave everything else pretty flexible.


So what I'm asking is, what should I do? Go with my gut and NOT run another campaign for them and save a revised Act 1 and new Act 2 for a more newbie friendly group, or try to talk to them and see if they can actually help me instead of, well, not?

As I likely don't know the players in question, I can't really say. They may be perfectly reasonable fellows, and their criticism is a genuine attempt to help. They may also be total sadists.

I don't think anyone here can really say any more than that. You've already expressed disinterest, and if things continue, you're liable to burn out. The most I can advise is talking with them and exercising good judgement. If they respond positively and really try to improve your experience, then there's no problem. If they just string you along, it's time to consider parting ways.

[WbtE]

There's not quite enough information here to recommend a course one way or the other. What kind of questions are they asking you? It could be that they have legitimate queries and your real problem is being too ambitious. I usually recommend to new DMs that they run a small site-based adventure and field questions about the outside world with, "Your character has never travelled that far." (If the player stamps their feet and insists that they've been all over the place, say, "Well, why don't you tell me what your character saw?") This gives you breathing space to work up a world a region at a time.

As far as your current campaign is concerned, if they don't want to follow the plot - don't write one. It's not necessary. If they want to rum amok and slaughter innocents (or engage in slightly less crazed evil), prepare for that. And when I say prepare for it, I mean really prepare for it. Paladins and their ilk exist for a reason. :smallcool:

[Silus]

There's not quite enough information here to recommend a course one way or the other. What kind of questions are they asking you? It could be that they have legitimate queries and your real problem is being too ambitious. I usually recommend to new DMs that they run a small site-based adventure and field questions about the outside world with, "Your character has never travelled that far." (If the player stamps their feet and insists that they've been all over the place, say, "Well, why don't you tell me what your character saw?") This gives you breathing space to work up a world a region at a time.

As far as your current campaign is concerned, if they don't want to follow the plot - don't write one. It's not necessary. If they want to rum amok and slaughter innocents (or engage in slightly less crazed evil), prepare for that. And when I say prepare for it, I mean really prepare for it. Paladins and their ilk exist for a reason.

An example: The players were in the capital city of the nation that the campaign was taking place in. I only had the monarch planned out, as that was, generally, the only real person of note that they'd be meeting with before heading off to save the world and such. I mention that the Queen is the head of government, and then come the barrage of questions.

"Does she have any dukes, earls or the like working under her?"
"What about the military? Does the capital have a military? What about cops?"
"How does the queen enforce her rule?"

They're not bad questions, but the sheer barrage of them caught me off guard and got us off track that I don't really want to deal with that again (which is why while I'm not DMing I'm trying to iron out the world as best as I can). And then there's them not letting go with the bad calls and lapses of judgement I had when DMing. I won't go into them, but they were pretty bad.

As for the Act 2 I've planned, it's a general End of the World scenario, so if they decide to save it, then it's on them, if not, then the world is doomed, and it's also on them.

"Well the world is getting pounded with meteors carrying monsters and it's generally the end of civilization as we know it. What do you want to do?"
And knowing them...
"We wanna find the Big Bad and join them." :smallannoyed:

[kyoryu]

"Does she have any dukes, earls or the like working under her?"
"What about the military? Does the capital have a military? What about cops?"
"How does the queen enforce her rule?"

If you're gonna go light prep, that's fine. But you need to be prepared for questions. A couple random personality generators, some names for quick reference, these things can go long ways.

Also, keep in mind that the players get info their characters have. If they're a bunch of street rats, then they don't know the inner workings of the royal court. They probably know the queen, and they know that her guards are *****. And that's likely about it.

Same with military sizes and the like. The average citizen just ain't gonna know about them.

If you're going to go low prep, you've gotta learn to roll with these things, and just answer the questions. Make a note of the answers so you don't contradict yourself later, but just go forward and have faith in yourself.

And if they wouldn't naturally have the info, telling them "you don't know. How are you going to find this out?" can at least get you out of the immediate barrage of questions, and force them to prioritize which information they think is actually important.

You can also give partial answers to the questions. "Of course she has Dukes! It's a feudalistic system! You don't know of many of them, but rumors are that Duke Whatsisname is making moves on the throne." You don't need to come up with the *entire* royal court at once.

Another good way to deflect some of these questions is to ask what they're trying to do. Usually questions are a way of figuring out whether a particular course of action is available. If you know what course of action they're looking for, it's easier to give them the shreds they need to pursue it.

If they're just trying to catch you in areas where you haven't answered, it's a losing battle. No matter how well-planned the setting, there will be things you just don't know. And trying to hit those areas to make you uncomfortable is kind of a jerk move.

[Anxe]

My players did this once. I took a break from DMing for about a year when it happened. A few of them DMed while I played instead. Then I came back when I was ready and wanted to. Maybe you just need to take a break from DMing?

[jedipotter]

So what I'm asking is, what should I do? Go with my gut and NOT run another campaign for them and save a revised Act 1 and new Act 2 for a more newbie friendly group, or try to talk to them and see if they can actually help me instead of, well, not?


The Questions It is normal for players to ask questions. But you don't need to answer them. You can simply say ''your character does not know'' or even better ''your character must find that out''.

The Stall Answer This is the classic. You give an answer that is not a 'real' answer. They ask ''what is on the island of Gort?" and you say ''the rumor is that it is full of undead''. Note how you said ''rumor'', and a rumor might be false. In any case, you only need to give a line or two of information. And a line or two does not tell them much. You can be vague, and change it latter.

Making Stuff Up If you need to, just make up stuff ahead of time. Take like and hour and make up lots of things. Then if you need something, just look at your list.

But the classic, easy trick, to make something up on the spot is to steal it. Who is Lord Harko? He is a fighter/mage that lost a fight to his former best friend and fell into The Elemental Plane of Fire. Today he is half human, half construct and raising a private army of simulacrums to rule the land. See how I just made up Lord Harko in like ten seconds.....or wait, did I? Maybe you noticed that Lord Harko has suspiciously the same story as Darth Vader? Well it is not by chance.

There are 1,000's of character's you can ''barrow'' a story from. And 1,000's of them are not popular enough that anyone would be able to see the true story. The Darth Vader story is easy for anyone to see. But do you know who Rick Hunter is? Would you recognize his story? How about Frank Murphy? Willow? Cliff Claven? Piper Hallowell? Wilma Deering? I could ''barrow'' one of their stories and you'd never know.

The Distraction If you really don't want them to go to ''Place B'', that you have not made up yet. Just distract them. Oh, look an orc army just attacked the city. Or the Money Tower just caught on fire. Or they get a bribe to go to Place A.

Make it up as you go Along You can't really just make up ''a little bit'', you need to make up as much as the players want. So you will need to use the Stall or Distraction to Make Up Stuff. They ask ''what about XYZ?'' and you say ''oh suddenly paladins attack you''. And during the twenty or so minutes of the fight, you come up with the answer to XYZ.

Fantasy It you add more fantasy, your world will be easier to build. To describe a whole legal crime and punishment system would be a lot of work. But to say ''the kingdom has Law-golem's that enforce the laws'' is easy. They can scry the future for crimes and then show up to stop them while saying things like ''stop, or there will be trouble'' and ''It's crime fighting time'' or ''Exterminate!''(LOL).

[WbtE]

An example: The players were in the capital city of the nation that the campaign was taking place in. I only had the monarch planned out, as that was, generally, the only real person of note that they'd be meeting with before heading off to save the world and such. I mention that the Queen is the head of government, and then come the barrage of questions.

"Does she have any dukes, earls or the like working under her?"
"What about the military? Does the capital have a military? What about cops?"
"How does the queen enforce her rule?"

OK. Firstly - as I'm sure you now know - you hadn't done enough preparation. Looking at those questions and knowing that the characters were evil, I would expect that they had a heist in mind and were trying to case the joint, not show you up.


the sheer barrage of them ... got us off track

:smallconfused: What do you mean by that? The players are entitled to agency in a roleplaying game. If they can't attempt to do what they want, then you might as well be reading them a story.


And then there's them not letting go with the bad calls and lapses of judgement I had when DMing. I won't go into them, but they were pretty bad.

If they're mocking you over these, then you should politely but firmly request that they stop the hazing rituals. On the other hand, if they're just holding you to your word on setting details... they have a point. The standard DM technique for stopping the bleeding with those sorts of errors is called "Yes, and..." - rather than trying to take things back, you add details around them to control the campaign.


As for the Act 2 I've planned, it's a general End of the World scenario, so if they decide to save it, then it's on them, if not, then the world is doomed, and it's also on them.

Act 2 is the End of the World? That's a hard act to follow. :smallcool:

(Sorry.)

[Silus]

OK. Firstly - as I'm sure you now know - you hadn't done enough preparation. Looking at those questions and knowing that the characters were evil, I would expect that they had a heist in mind and were trying to case the joint, not show you up.



:smallconfused: What do you mean by that? The players are entitled to agency in a roleplaying game. If they can't attempt to do what they want, then you might as well be reading them a story.



If they're mocking you over these, then you should politely but firmly request that they stop the hazing rituals. On the other hand, if they're just holding you to your word on setting details... they have a point. The standard DM technique for stopping the bleeding with those sorts of errors is called "Yes, and..." - rather than trying to take things back, you add details around them to control the campaign.



Act 2 is the End of the World? That's a hard act to follow. :smallcool:

(Sorry.)

Please pardon the quality of this post, doing it from mu phone with a bandaged thumb.

It wasn't so much them wanting to pull a heist as it was them wondering about the gaps in government. As for the military, that came about later when I mentioned that the capital's police force patrolled and dealt with crimes in the outlying villages as well. They asked how the wueen could control the land that she did, and apparently the answer of "respect and power" wasn't enough.

I get that they have a right to know about the world, but with these guys it's kinda difficult to improv something and NOT have them take advantage of it in such a way to drive me insane.

I'll talk to them about dropping the whole hazing over bad calls and such thing. I'm not gonna put much faith in them actually stopping, but at least I can let'em know that it's annoying and disheartening.

As for Act 2, the idea is/was that depending on how they deal with the world ending would determine where the would would head. Side with the previously exiled and very bitter former Goddess and doom the world to millenia of monsters and darkness (think if the Metro games took place in a fantasy world). Oppose and beat her, and the world is on it's way to a magical and technological golden age.

[Jay R]

"Does she have any dukes, earls or the like working under her?"
"What about the military? Does the capital have a military? What about cops?"
"How does the queen enforce her rule?"

They need to know if there is any backup, and how it works. Maybe they thought organized troops should be involved in the kingdom's defense.

These are tactical questions that, depending on the situation, need an answer for them to decide on a plan.

(They could also be the questions they are asking because they plan to take advantage of the current situation to stage a coup.)


They're not bad questions, but the sheer barrage of them caught me off guard and got us off track that I don't really want to deal with that again (which is why while I'm not DMing I'm trying to iron out the world as best as I can). And then there's them not letting go with the bad calls and lapses of judgement I had when DMing. I won't go into them, but they were pretty bad.

Every time it comes up, you need to say, "Yeah, that was a mistake. We changed it to so-and-so." Over and over again.


As for the Act 2 I've planned, it's a general End of the World scenario, so if they decide to save it, then it's on them, if not, then the world is doomed, and it's also on them.

"Well the world is getting pounded with meteors carrying monsters and it's generally the end of civilization as we know it. What do you want to do?"
And knowing them...
"We wanna find the Big Bad and join them." :smallannoyed:

Well, I suspect that they may try to get the dukes, earls, military, and cops to help them defend the world.

[If they do want to join the Big Bad, then your situation is particularly easy. The Big Bad would love to get a free chance to take potential enemies and set them against each other. Just remember that the Big Bad is not letting them join; he's giving them tasks to go kill the other good guys, or to go map out the quicksand swamps.]

[Abd al-Azrad]

http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html

This entire comic strip, beyond being enormously entertaining, is all about skilled DM addressing these kinds of problems.

It has been said a couple times, but there is a fine line between players deliberately undermining you, and players just being players. Smart, bored people looking to have fun with their friends in a quasi-competitive environment.

Let's assume for a moment that, with the right handling, your players can actually be decent people, and that their priority isn't to annoy you (that's just a little side benefit). They're all experienced gamers, so look for ways to leverage their experience. Turn their skills to your cause.

You admit you don't spend much time doing prepwork, so how about turning some of the responsibility of doing so over to the players? They deliberately run off the rails, so let them determine the direction their story moves. They want more specific details about the mechanisms of governance in the world, so assign each of them a kingdom to design, or a few non-mission-critical NPCs (everyone loves homework).

[AMFV]

Please pardon the quality of this post, doing it from mu phone with a bandaged thumb.

Firstl, hope your thumb gets better!




It wasn't so much them wanting to pull a heist as it was them wondering about the gaps in government. As for the military, that came about later when I mentioned that the capital's police force patrolled and dealt with crimes in the outlying villages as well. They asked how the wueen could control the land that she did, and apparently the answer of "respect and power" wasn't enough.

Well you can go a couple of ways with it. You can make stuff up on the fly, this is difficult and you have to be consistent and good at notetaking to do that. I've found my best stuff comes up on the fly.

You can stonewall, saying: "Your characters know that, but I'm not a medieval historian, so expecting me to develop a perfect medieval world is a little much, guys." or "I work, I didn't have time to write the book of lords, can't we just assume it's there."

You could work with them, saying "why do you want to know?" Then provide them with the information that is important, you are likely not JRR Tolkien or George RR Martin, creating an entire fantasy world with perfect detail should be your responsibility. If they have a specific question you can figure out what they need to know, and then develop that portion.



I get that they have a right to know about the world, but with these guys it's kinda difficult to improv something and NOT have them take advantage of it in such a way to drive me insane.


Tell them that, say "I work, I didn't have time to prepare that bit, I'll get it set up for next week if it's important," they should understand that, and they should understand that improv is not your strong suite.



I'll talk to them about dropping the whole hazing over bad calls and such thing. I'm not gonna put much faith in them actually stopping, but at least I can let'em know that it's annoying and disheartening.


Definitely, that's kind of poor form in any case.

[Knaight]

The questions seem fine - either put in more prep, or get better at improvisation. I recommend the latter; it should come fairly quickly with practice. Even those that might not seem to be relevant to what is at hand could easily be pertinent to something the players are trying to do, and even if they aren't there's something to be said for just understanding a setting element reasonably well.

However, spite is a terrible reason to play in a particular way, and doing things for no reason other than thinking it is against the plot is spite. Making a set of characters that is difficult is bad enough (a set of veterans should be more than able to make a coherent group with interesting dynamics between them, and both goals that get them moving when the game is slow and reasons to get involved with the interesting things going on in the world), but not even playing them with consistent motivations in lieu of deliberately being difficult is just B.S.

My advice in a nutshell: Make a fairly small setting, and detail it enough that you have a decent idea of what is going on and a solid base to improvise off off. In a fantasy setting I favor archipelagos for this sort of thing, as the sheer smallness of them keeps things manageable. Take that setting, and play it with a group that isn't this one.

[Silus]

They need to know if there is any backup, and how it works. Maybe they thought organized troops should be involved in the kingdom's defense.

These are tactical questions that, depending on the situation, need an answer for them to decide on a plan.

(They could also be the questions they are asking because they plan to take advantage of the current situation to stage a coup.)



Every time it comes up, you need to say, "Yeah, that was a mistake. We changed it to so-and-so." Over and over again.



Well, I suspect that they may try to get the dukes, earls, military, and cops to help them defend the world.

[If they do want to join the Big Bad, then your situation is particularly easy. The Big Bad would love to get a free chance to take potential enemies and set them against each other. Just remember that the Big Bad is not letting them join; he's giving them tasks to go kill the other good guys, or to go map out the quicksand swamps.]

While I agree that these are legitimate reasons for asking the questions I presented, I can say that none of those reasons were why they asked. They're the kinda players that look at a monarch and think "We could kill them and take over the country".


You admit you don't spend much time doing prepwork, so how about turning some of the responsibility of doing so over to the players? They deliberately run off the rails, so let them determine the direction their story moves. They want more specific details about the mechanisms of governance in the world, so assign each of them a kingdom to design, or a few non-mission-critical NPCs (everyone loves homework).

I do believe I'll go this route in the future, especially if they start asking generally pointless questions about the inner workings of...well, anything. Like seriously, it does not matter how the Bard's College operates. You're only talking to the receptionist and you're not eligible to join anyway. But you can bet dollars to donuts that they'll keep pushin' questions until they get something moderately satisfactory. :smallannoyed:


Well you can go a couple of ways with it. You can make stuff up on the fly, this is difficult and you have to be consistent and good at notetaking to do that. I've found my best stuff comes up on the fly.

You can stonewall, saying: "Your characters know that, but I'm not a medieval historian, so expecting me to develop a perfect medieval world is a little much, guys." or "I work, I didn't have time to write the book of lords, can't we just assume it's there."

You could work with them, saying "why do you want to know?" Then provide them with the information that is important, you are likely not JRR Tolkien or George RR Martin, creating an entire fantasy world with perfect detail should be your responsibility. If they have a specific question you can figure out what they need to know, and then develop that portion.

Well the first campaign I ran back in college was like 70-80% improv, and I had no problem with it. I gave the players massive freedom for character creation and they didn't run amuck with it (Thank God), and any plot holes that cropped up were handwaved away or not even questioned, let alone exploited. DMing for this group though...Give'em an inch and they'll take a mile and pretend it's just an inch.

I didn't improv much, but this stuff I generally call the Pink Mist (The players have a slightly more vulgar name for it :smallannoyed:) is a notable exception. The main gripe is that it was apparently highly inconsistent (partly due to my losing or misplacing my notes on it). Basically it was a former WMD-class weapon that was a self-perpetuating cloud that rapidly decayed organic matter and corroded most metals. Based off the Pink Cloud from the Fallout: Equestria fan-fic universe:

Pink Cloud is an entropic, necromantic, pink-hued gas that was originally released by bombs deployed by the zebra empire induring the Great War to strike Canterlot and eliminate the two Princesses, Celestia and Luna. It has a deadly effect on living beings, seeping into flesh and lungs, rotting it and melting it, and potentially liquefying bodies into heaps of organic matter. Even slight exposure can lead to severe complications, including organ failure and the permanent fusing of skin to objects in close contact, including clothes, PipBucks, jewelry, and even the ground or a chair if a victim remains still for an extended duration of exposure. It is almost always lethal, though in rare instances a victim can be turned into a particular variant of ghoul known as a Canterlot Ghoul.

The Pink Cloud has been slowly absorbed by inorganic matter--buildings, furniture, the earth itself--and is being slowly released into the air, causing Canterlot and several nearby cities (such as Zebratown) to still be severely hazardous despite the length of time since the gas release. Stables that have endured long-term exposure to the pink cloud were eventually breached due to corrosion. Pink Cloud also tends to concentrate in closed spaces where it does not get dispersed by the natural environment; such pockets are much more deadly than the open air due to density, making the cloud even more lethal than usual.

The attempt was to create a real danger for the players who had pretty much waltzed through everything I threw at them. But come up to a city infested with incorporeal undead with ability drain and saturated with the Pink Cloud, and it's nothing but complaints. "Oh it's broken, oh it's inconsistent, it's not fair that the Vampire and Werewolf take damage from it and that the damage bypasses DR and suppresses Fast Healing". Please don't ask about the vamp and werewolf :smalleek: But the Pink Cloud is one of those things they keep bringing up (:smallannoyed:) instead of giving me advice on how to make it "better" or at least consistent or balanced.




My advice in a nutshell: Make a fairly small setting, and detail it enough that you have a decent idea of what is going on and a solid base to improvise off off. In a fantasy setting I favor archipelagos for this sort of thing, as the sheer smallness of them keeps things manageable. Take that setting, and play it with a group that isn't this one.

The area being used isn't that much (Pathfinder-wise, probably as large as Varisia give or take), it's that...I dunno, it's like a combination of rapid fire questions, interrupting my answers with MORE questions, and not being satisfied when I try to keep up and give an off-the-cuff explanation of why things are the way they are.

"The Queen has no standing military-"
"Well why not? How's she keep the peace?"
"The city guard-"
"So the city guard keep the peace inside the city and outside as well?"
"Well sort of, they send patrols out-"
"What about foreign invaders?"
"It's not really an issue-"
"But they have no military."

Hey buddy, shut up and let me explain! :smallmad: Seriously, it was pretty much like that. And I didn't want to give away the spoiler that the Queen was a quasi-mortal deity that opted-out of Godhood due to the other Gods being jerks and had a direct hand cutting off the world from the rest of the planar reality and Gods. 'Cause ya know, that's one of those big reveals I wanted to save until Act 2 when her sister, an exiled and bitter Goddess, returns wanting the world and her revenge. And the reason invasions aren't an issue? Stat-wise, she's a lvl 20 Fey Blooded Sorcerer Elf with the full 10 Mythic Ranks. She could take on an Ancient Dragon and mop the floor with it if she wanted. And army ain't nothing, and people know it, but "Invasions just don't happen" isn't apparently a proper answer. :smallannoyed::smallmad:

And yes, the world and the plot is kinda weird, which is why I'm slowly cobbling together a Homebrew Worldbuilding thread/post so I can get some assistance on ironing out things.

[Frenth Alunril]

I'm just going to make this one option clear to you, cuz I see a lot of good advice here.

There is a rule in the dmg that let's you claim character sheets from players who play evil characters. Make it clear that you want them to be "at least neutral" and then start charting their actions until they do evil, and ask them politely for their character sheet. From that point on, you get a new and well developed bad guy who knows where every other character lives and who their family members are...

On another point, in ad lib comedy there is a rule, always agree. When you are stumped, always say yes.

"Does the queen have Earls and Dukes?"
"Yes, she does."
"Well, how many? who are they?
"check knowledge? Oh, you rolled, a 4, -2? Well, Gorttagh the strong, many, more than 2, that's many, your character knows they are all fancy pants, and war chief say, "no hit fancy pants!""

If you role a d20 a lot and look at your notebook as if you are generating intonation on the fly (or preparing a random encounter), the players usually back of on the questions.

P.S. The pink cloud sounds awesome! It's kinda like a small "the nothing" from the never ending story, or some creepy acidic "parallax" from the green lantern. Not broken at all.

[Silus]

I'm just going to make this one option clear to you, cuz I see a lot of good advice here.

There is a rule in the dmg that let's you claim character sheets from players who play evil characters. Make it clear that you want them to be "at least neutral" and then start charting their actions until they do evil, and ask them politely for their character sheet. From that point on, you get a new and well developed bad guy who knows where every other character lives and who their family members are...

On another point, in ad lib comedy there is a rule, always agree. When you are stumped, always say yes.

"Does the queen have Earls and Dukes?"
"Yes, she does."
"Well, how many? who are they?
"check knowledge? Oh, you rolled, a 4, -2? Well, Gorttagh the strong, many, more than 2, that's many, your character knows they are all fancy pants, and war chief say, "no hit fancy pants!""

If you role a d20 a lot and look at your notebook as if you are generating intonation on the fly (or preparing a random encounter), the players usually back of on the questions.

Ooooh, I like this. I like this a LOT. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

I do believe I'll have to look up the whole "You're evil, gimme the sheet" thing though so I can cite it when the players inevitably ask about it.

[Lorsa]

Just because you're an "experienced" roleplaying, it doesn't automatically make you a "good" roleplayer. Personally I consider a good roleplayer to be one that can give a new DM a lot of leeway and judge them less harshly than an experienced one. I also think it is good form to help a DM out with these kind of issues.

So, with that said here's some advice for you:

Remember that you are the DM. Anything you say about the world is truth, and anything you decide about the game is what matters. If you say "I don't want you to play evil characters for this campaign" then they can't do it! You're allowed to make such decisions (just do it before and not during). You are perfectly within your right to have some demands about the game that they need to adhere to or not play at all (which may or may not be what they decide on).

Like I said, as it concerns the world, your word is truth. Whenever approached with a question, just take some time to think about it and then give an answer. Personally I like when players ask me questions about the setting because it gives me an excuse to come up with an answer and so the setting grows! I guess it helps that I'm usually fairly quick at coming up with these things but with some practice so can you (and they should respect that you're new and things might be slower). Ask them to slow down and take one question at a time.

"Does the Queen have any other nobles working for her?"

<Take a moment to decide if it's a feudal society or if those functions are done by paid officials>

"Yes, there are other nobles like dukes and earls and barons that have various responsibilities and privileges."

"What about the military?"

<Take a moment to think about how how many crown-tied soldiers you want>

"There is a small military that works as palace and city guards, not large enough to defend against an invasion or start a war with. The country hasn't been in any major conflict for a few decades and in the past it has always hired mercenaries for large campaigns."

"Why no war? What are the surrounding countries like? Where are the mercenaries?"

"Well, the mountains to the north are pretty hard to cross, and beyond them is a land that is basically a scattering of small individual towns. It's a pretty rough and uncivilized part of the world.

To the east lies the large ancient forest which is inhabited both by elves and monsters. The country has a peace treaty with the elves and small guard outposts to help defend the nearby settlements from monster raids, and lots of adventurers take on jobs there as well. Trade with the elves is very lucrative, if a bit dangerous.

To the south there's a fairly large country that mostly consists of good farmland. It's a pretty rich country, but they live mostly on trade and have a large enough military to protect them against intruders but don't consider it to be economically beneficial to start wars.

To the west is a somewhat aggressive country, it depends a bit on who their current ruler is and if he or she has anything to prove. They are currently involved in a campaign with the country to the west of them, but it's not going very well. Their king have hired a lot of the nearby mercenaries but is starting to have some monetary issues and may not be able to keep up the war for much longer. Some of the peasants have fled into this country, due to the heavy taxation and poor living standards as of late.

The mercenary bands are active over a large region in this part of the world. There are a number of them of various sizes, the smallest about 50.100 soldiers and the largest a bit over a thousand. Two of them are famous for their war-wizards, and one of the smaller follows the god of war and is led by a cleric."


Those are things I came up with while writing this post. If you just tell them you need some time to think you can use their questions to your advantage. It will help you flesh out your world, which is what you wanted to the start isn't it?

[AMFV]

While I agree that these are legitimate reasons for asking the questions I presented, I can say that none of those reasons were why they asked. They're the kinda players that look at a monarch and think "We could kill them and take over the country".

You know, I've heard that most monarchs, at least 75% if I remember the stats are actually Pit Fiends or Ancient Wyrms in disguise.

[Lorsa]

You know, I've heard that most monarchs, at least 75% if I remember the stats are actually Pit Fiends or Ancient Wyrms in disguise.

And the other 25% are Pit Fiends or Ancient Wyrms that didn't bother with the disguise.

[hymer]

There is a rule in the dmg that let's you claim character sheets from players who play evil characters.

Which DMG is this? Where?

@ OP: I'm in the "talk to them" camp. If you take a while to spell out the campaign to them first, you can avoid a lot of these problems (unless your players are, in fact jerks - but I see little evidence of that so far). "This campaign will be about heroes saving the kingdom. I'd like you to make PCs that fit with this theme." Have the first session be the making of PCs plus perhaps a small introductory adventure if it turns out there's time.
I always take questions as a good thing. I'm more concerned about the players that seem uninterested in the world around their characters.

[Silus]

Just because you're an "experienced" roleplaying, it doesn't automatically make you a "good" roleplayer. Personally I consider a good roleplayer to be one that can give a new DM a lot of leeway and judge them less harshly than an experienced one. I also think it is good form to help a DM out with these kind of issues.

So, with that said here's some advice for you:

Remember that you are the DM. Anything you say about the world is truth, and anything you decide about the game is what matters. If you say "I don't want you to play evil characters for this campaign" then they can't do it! You're allowed to make such decisions (just do it before and not during). You are perfectly within your right to have some demands about the game that they need to adhere to or not play at all (which may or may not be what they decide on).

Like I said, as it concerns the world, your word is truth. Whenever approached with a question, just take some time to think about it and then give an answer. Personally I like when players ask me questions about the setting because it gives me an excuse to come up with an answer and so the setting grows! I guess it helps that I'm usually fairly quick at coming up with these things but with some practice so can you (and they should respect that you're new and things might be slower). Ask them to slow down and take one question at a time.

Those are things I came up with while writing this post. If you just tell them you need some time to think you can use their questions to your advantage. It will help you flesh out your world, which is what you wanted to the start isn't it?

When I initially started the campaign, I was new to the group, never having played with the players, so I kinda assumed that they'd all gravitate towards either good or neutral. 3/5 ended up in the tail end of Neutral or Lawful/Neutral Evil. And apparently at least one of the players (according to him) can play a Lawful Good character to an extent that I'd wish they'd play an evil character.

During the campaign though, I was trying to build the world almost on the fly. I had some key cities and stuff set up and tried improvising anything that wasn't filled in. When questioned, I was either constantly interrupted by comments or more questions, of I'd admit that I didn't have that particular aspect sorted out and more or less get chided for it. It was, I think, obvious that I was struggling with not only dealing with them but also trying to build the world as I went, and nobody stepped up to offer to help, just the odd question to get me thinking. Honestly I've gotten more done on my own, brainstorming at work than I have gotten help from them.

[AMFV]

When I initially started the campaign, I was new to the group, never having played with the players, so I kinda assumed that they'd all gravitate towards either good or neutral. 3/5 ended up in the tail end of Neutral or Lawful/Neutral Evil. And apparently at least one of the players (according to him) can play a Lawful Good character to an extent that I'd wish they'd play an evil character.


Generally that sort of Lawful Good isn't actually lawful good, it usually winds up being somewhere around lawful neutral. One of the hallmarks of goodness is compassion. And that particular archetype of stupidity doesn't really have that.



During the campaign though, I was trying to build the world almost on the fly. I had some key cities and stuff set up and tried improvising anything that wasn't filled in. When questioned, I was either constantly interrupted by comments or more questions, of I'd admit that I didn't have that particular aspect sorted out and more or less get chided for it. It was, I think, obvious that I was struggling with not only dealing with them but also trying to build the world as I went, and nobody stepped up to offer to help, just the odd question to get me thinking. Honestly I've gotten more done on my own, brainstorming at work than I have gotten help from them.

You have a job, that wins out, they shouldn't chide you because you have extensively more workload than they do. If they continue to chide them, then start requiring that they turn in pages worth of detailed character journals, which will be checked for accuracy to the storyline, when they complain that it's ridiculous (it is), then point out that's what they're asking of you.

[Kalmageddon]

Why are you even playing with a group like this? No wonder you feel frustrated...
Anyway, on the off chance that they aren't doing this maliciously I support the idea of simply talking to them like you did to us. Explain your problems with their behaviour and seek a compromise.
Otherwise, dump 'em.

[Lorsa]

When I initially started the campaign, I was new to the group, never having played with the players, so I kinda assumed that they'd all gravitate towards either good or neutral. 3/5 ended up in the tail end of Neutral or Lawful/Neutral Evil. And apparently at least one of the players (according to him) can play a Lawful Good character to an extent that I'd wish they'd play an evil character.

During the campaign though, I was trying to build the world almost on the fly. I had some key cities and stuff set up and tried improvising anything that wasn't filled in. When questioned, I was either constantly interrupted by comments or more questions, of I'd admit that I didn't have that particular aspect sorted out and more or less get chided for it. It was, I think, obvious that I was struggling with not only dealing with them but also trying to build the world as I went, and nobody stepped up to offer to help, just the odd question to get me thinking. Honestly I've gotten more done on my own, brainstorming at work than I have gotten help from them.

Like I said, good and experienced are two different things.

You should explain to them your situation, and that you're trying to learn as you go along and that they should go more easy on you or else you'll never DM for them again.

If they don't listen to that, they're not the kind of people you should spend time with.

[Silus]

Generally that sort of Lawful Good isn't actually lawful good, it usually winds up being somewhere around lawful neutral. One of the hallmarks of goodness is compassion. And that particular archetype of stupidity doesn't really have that.



You have a job, that wins out, they shouldn't chide you because you have extensively more workload than they do. If they continue to chide them, then start requiring that they turn in pages worth of detailed character journals, which will be checked for accuracy to the storyline, when they complain that it's ridiculous (it is), then point out that's what they're asking of you.

See, I don't know what it is, but it's suggestions like this that seem to be rekindling my drive to DM. Like, I'm reading it and if my face were animated (or putty) I'd have a big'ol Grinch smile going right now. :smallbiggrin:



Why are you even playing with a group like this? No wonder you feel frustrated...
Anyway, on the off chance that they aren't doing this maliciously I support the idea of simply talking to them like you did to us. Explain your problems with their behaviour and seek a compromise.
Otherwise, dump 'em.



Like I said, good and experienced are two different things.

You should explain to them your situation, and that you're trying to learn as you go along and that they should go more easy on you or else you'll never DM for them again.

If they don't listen to that, they're not the kind of people you should spend time with.

Aye, I'll have a talk with them before the next game starts on Friday. At least to try and get them to stop bringing up all the bad DM calls and other stuff that they admittedly talk about when I'm not there. I don't mind them discussing it among themselves, but it's kinda annoying when they keep bringing up the Pink Mist (that I mentioned above) whenever I mention trying to get Act 2 worked out or even bring up the topic of DMing. Or bringing up the Spider. Or the 18 Adamantine doors. Or Skippy Rotten (Thankfully THAT instilled in me the actual drive to flatly say "no" to like 90% of their character concepts they put to me).

[Segev]

Assuming your players know and are okay with the fact that you're building it as you go, and it's a major work in progress, I'd go with the solution you liked earlier about rolling for information and such...

...but also, be honest. "I hadn't thought about that in that much detail yet. Why do you want to know? What are you thinking of doing?" Make sure you're not trying to set it up as "DM tailoring the setting to screw the PCs' plans," and you can probably bring them onto your side by finding out what sort of plots they have in mind, and building the details in that enable that story to be told.

"Does she have dukes and earls working under her?"
"Hm, I hadn't given it much thought. I think so, probably, but let me ask you first: why do you want to know? What do you want to achieve that you need this information for?"
"Well, if she does, I was thinking of assassinating a minor one she might not know personally so I could impersonate him and infiltrate her court. Preferably one that is in with the city guard or the military. By the way, what sort of military do they have?"


And from there, you can start meta-plotting the adventure. Let the evil PCs GIVE you plot hooks and let their players help you develop them. Where you don't know something, see if they have ideas on what it is they want to do, and fill in details that work with it. You don't have to hand them all their plans on a silver platter - the Earl of the Knight's Watchmen may not be an easy man to assassinate at all, and they still probably need Knowledge checks or Gather Info or the like to figure out that he's the one they want to target and to learn enough information to go for him.

But then you plan out the Earl's defenses, his personal court, etc., and the PCs plan their maneuver to replace him.

In the end, you may have a dozen other ideas for what the otehr Earls and Dukes are based on how they interconnect with the one you just had developed.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, perhaps I missed something, but are these players doing this out of spite and malice, or because they are cheeky little monkeys? I've met both types,and it really could just be a game of one-up and ribbing and doing crazy antics. If so, I suggest communication to let them know this is not making you have fun and hopefully they'll listen.

If its the former, **** them and get some new people. Unless you are in a remote area, it shouldn't be too hard to find some players, or even do things online.

Also? Time spent roleplaying doesn't translate into skill. I've seen people claim they have been RPing since 1982 with the same character who is a flat, bland Mary Sue. This group either needs to learn how to work with you, or you need a new group period.

[Silus]

Well, perhaps I missed something, but are these players doing this out of spite and malice, or because they are cheeky little monkeys? I've met both types,and it really could just be a game of one-up and ribbing and doing crazy antics. If so, I suggest communication to let them know this is not making you have fun and hopefully they'll listen.

If its the former, **** them and get some new people. Unless you are in a remote area, it shouldn't be too hard to find some players, or even do things online.

Also? Time spent roleplaying doesn't translate into skill. I've seen people claim they have been RPing since 1982 with the same character who is a flat, bland Mary Sue. This group either needs to learn how to work with you, or you need a new group period.

Well South Texas isn't really known for its gamer population, so I'm hesitant to ditch the group I have without working to set something up with another group beforehand.

I will have a talk with them however, though I feel that I ought to bring it up should they reference my earlier campaign. Would seem forced and awkward otherwise. But they will be told.

[kyoryu]

Well South Texas isn't really known for its gamer population, so I'm hesitant to ditch the group I have without working to set something up with another group beforehand.

I will have a talk with them however, though I feel that I ought to bring it up should they reference my earlier campaign. Would seem forced and awkward otherwise. But they will be told.

I've got a friend that just moved to San Antonio, though he's mostly playing Fate these days as far as I know.

[Brookshw]

You know, I've heard that most monarchs, at least 75% if I remember the stats are actually Pit Fiends or Ancient Wyrms in disguise. Suddenly so much makes sense.


And the other 25% are Pit Fiends or Ancient Wyrms that didn't bother with the disguise. now all of it does!

Silus: I'd be lying if I said there aren't the occasional jerk players who are mindless of those at the table and the difference in there knowledge and skill when it comes to the game. Cripes, I had one group that decided while we were taking a break and I was out smoking to start harassing my wife about her character and the choices she made to the point that after that session she dropped the game. But that's not always the case, sometimes it's that they legitimately aren't aware of someone's inexperience. As you've said, you're new to DMing, and there are plenty of pitfalls.

A lot of people have said talk to them, and that's great advice! Most of the time that will resolve the problem (most). I hope that they realize you're still getting your feet under you so to speak and usually that means they'll go a bit easier on you. Honestly, on the rare occasions I get to play, let alone with a new DM, I let them railroad as much as they need. Just learning to run things takes time, its rough and bad form imo to throw extra challenges at someone who's already dealing with the amount that running a game naturally does. Players deserve agency in the game no doubt, the more the merrier, but ask them to relax a bit while you're figuring out how to let them do that. Also don't be afraid to simply leave the group, offer a new game to the players you want to play with, and move on. Some people simply aren't very compatible or have wildly divergent interests. The game's there for everyone to have fun with and if that's not happening and you aren't able to reconcile the differences, well, you're not a hostage. It doesn't mean they're bad people, just not the right fit.

As to the questions and the feeling that they're trying to break the world? This can be subjective, rarely are players doing it intentionally, it's usually how they explore the world and adapting to that is important for a DM. Questions are good. From your posts I gather you feel they're looking for weaknesses to exploit. Perhaps they are, perhaps not, not important. You can simply say "ya know, I did not think we were going to explore in that direction tonight and I haven't finished building it yet, let's write down these questions and I'll get back to you between sessions". Not unreasonable, and if they know you're new to DMing I would hope they could accept it.

An alternative, give homework assignment! This may sound odd but it cropped up in another thread where the DM gave the players the challenge of designing the concepts of some ruins and how the previous inhabitants lived. Frankly the players did an amazing job. You could try "ya know, there are 8 dukes but I haven't flushed them out yet. How about you each write up one and send it to me between sessions, I'll write up the rest and we'll readdress this next week". This can help engage players and take some of the weight off the DM.

Talk, offer them an opportunity to contribute to the world building, work to reconcile what you want out of the game with what they want out, and if all else fails don't be afraid to call it quits. Everyone should be having a good time.

Anyway, hope things work out for you. Keep on posting! (also hope your thumb heals up!)

[Frenth Alunril]

Ooooh, I like this. I like this a LOT. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

I do believe I'll have to look up the whole "You're evil, gimme the sheet" thing though so I can cite it when the players inevitably ask about it.

Shucks, seems I conned myself into believing something that was in fact nothing more than a house rule. I swear I remember reading a section titled "Playing a Hero" that went on about tracking alignment and claiming character sheets from people.

Anyway, It matters very little to me, because it's a house rule in my games, FOR SURE> just as "TheDarkSaint"

I justify it using the insanity rules from Unearthed Archana. It goes a little something like this. "You were friends, and worked toward the same goal, but now, suddenly, your friend is becoming evil. Very evil, and that doesn't seem right, in fact, he seems insane, given the person you once new. Insane, means the player looses control of the PC, and the DM is now master of all that is evil... I mean, in control of the new NPC."

Though I swear that I did see this in a 3.5 book.

I have been scouring all possible sources today, and not finding much.

As a house rule, I let my players play the way they like until their evil gets a little too dastardly and they can no longer work within the group, at that point, I take their character, who has "Retired from the party" usually amicably, and they are happy to know they have created hell on earth, only to have to face it again and again.

Let me give you what you need, though, to justify your actions. "It's a house rule." and when they call you on it, you say, "I'm invoking Rule 0, I want a hero game, where you guys shine, not some dirty mad max thing where you just trash everything. You think you are up for that?"

[WbtE]

While I agree that these are legitimate reasons for asking the questions I presented, I can say that none of those reasons were why they asked. They're the kinda players that look at a monarch and think "We could kill them and take over the country".

That is a legitimate play-style. I mean, people do that all the time in Burrough's "Mars" books, and I'm only talking about the heroes! :smallsmile:


Please don't ask about the vamp and werewolf :smalleek:

If those are player characters, feel free to make a minimal excuse to seize their character sheets. I would consider exposing them to "unholy radiation", which should be part of your next act anyway, as sufficient cause.


The area being used isn't that much (Pathfinder-wise, probably as large as Varisia give or take), it's that...I dunno, it's like a combination of rapid fire questions, interrupting my answers with MORE questions, and not being satisfied when I try to keep up and give an off-the-cuff explanation of why things are the way they are.

"The Queen has no standing military-"
"Well why not? How's she keep the peace?"
"The city guard-"
"So the city guard keep the peace inside the city and outside as well?"
"Well sort of, they send patrols out-"
"What about foreign invaders?"
"It's not really an issue-"
"But they have no military."

Hey buddy, shut up and let me explain! :smallmad: Seriously, it was pretty much like that. And I didn't want to give away the spoiler...

OK. Here's the thing: if something is strange in the world, you can let that secret out. So when you got asked, "How does she keep the peace?" you could have said, "You don't know. It's a mystery." If the players want to find out more, they can try doing so in-character. This should also mean that big reveals provoke, "Oh, now I get it!" :smallsmile:


I'm slowly cobbling together a Homebrew Worldbuilding thread/post so I can get some assistance on ironing out things.

Don't worry too much about presenting everything at once. If you have problems you're worried about for the next session, just put those up and ask for help.

[LokiRagnarok]

You could even present it as a paper-thinly-disguised hint if this flies well with your players.

"You realize you have never asked yourself this question before. Neither has anyone else that you know ever spoken about it. On consideration, this does seem a little bit weird. Roll for Wisdom. *barring natural 20* You cannot think of a solution for this conundrum."

[Jay R]

The answer to any question of "How does the queen do X?" is "Who is your character asking?"

Don't give away information for free.

[horrorman009]

One thing that the GMs in my gaming circle have adopted is collecting the players character sheets at the end of every gaming session. That way you can over them and plot around their character types with their hindrances/flaws whatever it's called in your game. It also helps when only one person has the sheets in case someone is forgetful. And it usually should be the DM/GM.

Happy Gaming!
The Horrorman

[Earthwalker]

"Does she have any dukes, earls or the like working under her?"
"What about the military? Does the capital have a military? What about cops?"
"How does the queen enforce her rule?"

One issue with all this is trust, you should be able to trust your players and they should be able to trust you. With questions like this you should be able to ask the players, why they need to know and get the truth back.
One thing that made my life easier when dealing with questions about NPCs I had not thought of, simply ask your players to come up with names and a brief description.

Now you may get

“Duke McRichpants. He is incredibly wealthy and likes to spend his evenings away from his guards, whilst carrying all his wealth in a dark and secluded part of town.” If you do just veto it.

Mostly I get more plot hooks from my players this way. I sometimes get back them not wanting to do the work so the NPCs in question are left uncharacterized (and so unnonticed in game)


The answer to any question of "How does the queen do X?" is "Who is your character asking?"
Don't give away information for free.

I have to agree with this as well. Then you can add in later the PCs getting a note, with just a comment saying “I hear you have been asking about me, perhaps we should meet”. YAY plot hooks.


While I agree that these are legitimate reasons for asking the questions I presented, I can say that none of those reasons were why they asked. They're the kinda players that look at a monarch and think "We could kill them and take over the country".


One issue you are having is the difference in expectation from the game. The players are being evil and you imagined that they would be the heros. In future I would write up some notes before the game started on what you were expecting from the game, with some rules in place. Like stating you want the players to be heros / good guys. If the players then don’t want to play good guys, they can sit the campaign out.

Of course with where you are, you could let them take over the kingdom. Make it a game of trying to rule. You know how much hassle and plot hooks can come from this kind of thing. (Of course I know this is not what you wanted )

One of my favourites for when the Evil PCs took over the kingdom was to have a minor flunky refer to one of the four PCs as Great Ruler and the others just as Ruler. Also the flunky would seem to check with “Great Ruler” before agreeing to what the other PC said. After only a few days of this the PCs had managed kill each other off, leaving the throne free for legitimate authorities.

[Deadline]

Based off the Pink Cloud from the Fallout: Equestria fan-fic universe:

Is this the group you posted about a while back that hates My Little Pony? Are you sure it's wise to be using that show as your source material for inspiration? I know you posted that you were considering forcing them into it without their knowledge.


She could take on an Ancient Dragon and mop the floor with it if she wanted. And army ain't nothing, and people know it, but "Invasions just don't happen" isn't apparently a proper answer. :smallannoyed::smallmad:

Two problems here (aside from you being 100% correct about it not being an answer that any adventurer worth their salt would be satisfied with. Seriously, "everyone just gets along" is a bit of a stretch, even for a fantasy game:smalltongue:):

1. No-one invades because it is well known that the queen can pretty much wipe armies from the countryside with a flick of her finger.

2. No-one invades because it is well known that the realm is protected by some powerful being (i.e. the queen disguises herself).

The only way the players aren't going to know one of those two things is if they are from a distant land. And odds are good that such a thing would be talked about on the streets. Because you can bet that neighboring enemy states, bandits, etc. are going to test the "rumor" they've heard.

Sure, you could take other options, like nobody likes to talk about it. But your players aren't going to "investigate the mystery", they're going to grab the first bloke off the street who says, "I don't want to talk about it", and beat the information out of him.

Being able to answer these kinds of questions is, in fact, important. As others have said, you can give relatively vague answers, distribute made-up on the fly rumors, or just tell the players that you don't have that info prepped, and you'll try to have it next session.

I can't really add to the great advice given here so far, aside from definitely sit down with the players (not during game), and voice your concerns (without getting accusatory). Ask them why they ask those questions, what you can do to better prepare, etc. Don't just expect them to offer advice during game, ask them for advice if you want it.

And in the end, if they are more interested in being jerks than in having a functioning gaming group, at least by talking to them you'll know.

[Silus]

Is this the group you posted about a while back that hates My Little Pony? Are you sure it's wise to be using that show as your source material for inspiration? I know you posted that you were considering forcing them into it without their knowledge.



Two problems here (aside from you being 100% correct about it not being an answer that any adventurer worth their salt would be satisfied with. Seriously, "everyone just gets along" is a bit of a stretch, even for a fantasy game:smalltongue:):

1. No-one invades because it is well known that the queen can pretty much wipe armies from the countryside with a flick of her finger.

2. No-one invades because it is well known that the realm is protected by some powerful being (i.e. the queen disguises herself).

The only way the players aren't going to know one of those two things is if they are from a distant land. And odds are good that such a thing would be talked about on the streets. Because you can bet that neighboring enemy states, bandits, etc. are going to test the "rumor" they've heard.

Sure, you could take other options, like nobody likes to talk about it. But your players aren't going to "investigate the mystery", they're going to grab the first bloke off the street who says, "I don't want to talk about it", and beat the information out of him.

Being able to answer these kinds of questions is, in fact, important. As others have said, you can give relatively vague answers, distribute made-up on the fly rumors, or just tell the players that you don't have that info prepped, and you'll try to have it next session.

I can't really add to the great advice given here so far, aside from definitely sit down with the players (not during game), and voice your concerns (without getting accusatory). Ask them why they ask those questions, what you can do to better prepare, etc. Don't just expect them to offer advice during game, ask them for advice if you want it.

And in the end, if they are more interested in being jerks than in having a functioning gaming group, at least by talking to them you'll know.

Well, some things have changed since I posted this topic.

The Pink Cloud is indeed based off the Fallout Equestria fic, though instead of the fic's origins, it's a bio-chemical weapon designed to wipe out Akata (Think Xenomorphs mixed with lions that breed via infected bites). More info on this can be found in the link in my signature (along with the world I'm trying to mock up).

As for the Queen's lands, the reason her territory is not invaded is due to her being a political lynchpin. The surrounding city-nations (again, covered in the linked thread in my signature) all agreed that an impartial nation should be the head of their section of the world. As the Queen 1) had no formal standing military or military aspirations, 2) was not involved with any sort of political intrigue, and 3) had proven to be impartial in affairs outside her holdings, she was the most "qualified" candidate. Were any of the city-nations to move against her, the others would see it as a power-grab and would respond in kind. Her very position is what is keeping the peace. A full on alliance or merger of the city-nations would be better, but each has their own government and picking who would be in charge would just lead to eventual civil war.

I've been trying to preemptively find answers to the questions that the PCs will likely ask that I don't already have answers for. And as I've got almost a year or so until the second half of my campaign starts, I think that's likely plenty of time to at least get some of the main questions covered.