Oko and Qailee
2013-12-18, 02:15 PM
Ok, so it's been noted before that fighting giant things in D&D has essentially been "Hit it in the legs until it dies" the goal of this encounter is to create a more exciting colossal boss fight. The goal is to make hitting different limbs have different effects/etc. I would like to thank in advance a thread I saw a long time ago discussing severing limbs in combat, as some of the basis for this encounter is designed around this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158843
Goals: Make limbs a thing, make size more meaningful
To start I copied the mountain giants (CR26) stats:
Colossal sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 80
AC: 31 (-8 size, +29 Natural), Touch 2, Flat-footed 31
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (4d8+24/19-20) or 2 slams +30 melee (2d6+16), or rock +15 ranged (4d8+16)
Space/Reach: 40x40/25ft
Special attacks: Crush, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, summon giants
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +10
Abilities: STR 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Improved Critical (MGClub), Power Attack, Sunder
(rest is irrelevant)
Ok, so some problems I have with this:
1) This guy is weilding a massive club, why does it only hit one target at a time? Yeah he can great cleave, but he should auto-matically hit multiple targets
2) This guy is weilding a MASSIVE CLUB, you should be sent flying, not drop dead exactly where he killed you
3) Hitting his legs are as valuable as stabbing him in the eye... why?
4) This guy is CR26 why? Will save +10? No DR, no SR, no immunities... ohkay...
5) The trample space makes so little sense, 40x40, this guy is 40feet tall, his feet aren't that big. Also why is trampling a standard action? Moving is generally a move action, and if you're bigger than someone you should trample them for free, the way it currently is essentially would be the same as saying "it is now a standard action to step on the floor."
Lets make some changes:
Phillip the really big giant guy:
Colossal+ sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 90
AC: 31 (-16 size, +37 Natural), Touch -6, Flat-footed 39
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (6d8+36/19-20)
Space/Reach: (SEE LIMBS)
Special attacks: Crush, Improved Crush, fling, grapple, trample, Improved trample, Iron Heart Surge
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, Immunity to Mind effecting, SR40
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +14
Abilities: STR 59, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 7
Feats: Iron Will, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Massive Cleave*, Improved Trample*, Power Attack, Sunder
Details on new abilities:
Improved Trample: Phillip, the really big giant guy, tramples as a move action. Any individual of size gargantuan of smaller can be hit by Phillips trample for 6d6+24 bludgeoning damage. Any individual caught in the path of Phillips trample can choose to either make a DC41 Reflex save to avoid the damage (If taking the total defense action the DC of the save drops to 20, alternatively a player may ready a move action to avoid the trample) and move outside of the path of the trample (this cannot be done if flat footed or entangled, etc) OR they may instead choose to fail the save and make an attack of opportunity against Phillips leg instead. To determine if a target is being trampled, draw a line determining the path of Phillip the really big giant guy, then widen the path by 20ft, all individuals in the widened path are effected by the trample.
Massive Cleave: When striking with his melee club attack, Phillip targets an area instead of an individual. Phillip strikes a 15x15 square and makes an attack roll against every individual in the area. For every target hit Phillip and the target make opposed strenght checks as though Phillip were bullrushing them. If a target wins the opposed strenght check it suffers no damage and does not move, if it losses it takes 6d8+36 bludgeoning damage and is moved the same distance as though he were bullrushed. Phillip chooses the direction of the bullrush.
Iron Heart Surge: Works as the wablade maneuver except he does not have to recover maneuvers.
LIMBS:
Phillip the really big giant guy can be divided into 6 limbs. Each one has different qualities that make striking those limbs different. 1/2 of any damage done to any limb except Phillips face is done to Phillips HP total (face adds full damage to HP total). Sneak attack damage and critical strike damage does work against limbs, but does not add to the 1/2 damage done to the hp total, with the exception of the face, crits and sneak attacks against phillips face will add damage to phillips hp total.
When a limb reaches 0 HP it "dies", further attacking that limb will continue to harm Phillip, but will not accrue any additional benefits. See each individual limb for details.
LEGS:
Phillip has two legs, when one leg reaches 0 Phillip drops to his knees on that leg, he can only crawl and the reflex save to avoid his trample is dropped in half. When both legs are dropped to 0 (or when phillip dies), Phillip collapses, roll to determine direction of collapse (DM discretion on probability, etc), Phillips body does falling object damage to all those he collapses on unless they suceed on a DC15 reflex save to avoid the collapse and move out of the way (cannot be done if there is nowhere to move).
Phillips legs are 50 feet tall, in order to strike phillips other limbs individuals must be able to reach above phillips legs via weapons/spells/etc. If a character is below 50feet then Phillips reach with his club is only 30feet.
stats:
Size: Colossal
275HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Peircing
SR40
Space: Two 10x15 rectangles, spaced at most 10feet apart
ARMS:
Phillip has two arms. When one arm is incapcaitated, if it's the arm weilding the club (DM discretion) Phillip may either drop the club or swap which hand is weilding the club. Upon swapping the club to his other hand Phillip loses 12 damage from his club and receives a -8 penalty to attack rolls. Upon both arms being incapacitated, Phillip MUST drop the club.
Phillips arms are at heights 50-100. They are in the same fighting space as Phillips torso.
stats:
Size: Colossal
225HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Bludgeoning
SR40
Space: See below
Torso:
Phillip has one torse, upon the torso reaching 1/2 HP Phillip is automatically fatigued. Upon being incapacitated Phillip becomes exhausted and takes a -10 penalty to forst saves. The torso may continue to be damage for double damage to be dealth to phillip.
Phillips torso is at heights of 50-100.
stats:
Size: Colossal
350HP
AC: 25 (-8 size, +22 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 17
DR: 15/Piercing
SR40
Space: 40x40
Head:
Phillips head is 20feet tall and takes up a space of 20x20. Upon his head reaching 0 HP Phillip is blinded and can no longer shout and may continue to be struck for double damage towards his HP pool. Melee strikes within range of phillips head always do sneak attack damage.
Phillips head is at heights 100-120
stats:
Size: Colossal
200HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
SR40
Space: 20x20
Special Attacks: Shout
Shout: As a free action 1/round, Phillip the really big giant guy, may shout loudly. This deals 10d6 Sonic damage (Fort Save DC 41 for half) to any individuals within 40feet of Phillips head and knocks them away 10 feet.
So, what does everyone think? Whats the CR of this? A lot better than the Mountain Giant IMO.
Would you find this a lot more exciting to fight against than "I hack at his legs non stop" or "the wizard dominates him"
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158843
Goals: Make limbs a thing, make size more meaningful
To start I copied the mountain giants (CR26) stats:
Colossal sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 80
AC: 31 (-8 size, +29 Natural), Touch 2, Flat-footed 31
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (4d8+24/19-20) or 2 slams +30 melee (2d6+16), or rock +15 ranged (4d8+16)
Space/Reach: 40x40/25ft
Special attacks: Crush, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, summon giants
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +10
Abilities: STR 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Improved Critical (MGClub), Power Attack, Sunder
(rest is irrelevant)
Ok, so some problems I have with this:
1) This guy is weilding a massive club, why does it only hit one target at a time? Yeah he can great cleave, but he should auto-matically hit multiple targets
2) This guy is weilding a MASSIVE CLUB, you should be sent flying, not drop dead exactly where he killed you
3) Hitting his legs are as valuable as stabbing him in the eye... why?
4) This guy is CR26 why? Will save +10? No DR, no SR, no immunities... ohkay...
5) The trample space makes so little sense, 40x40, this guy is 40feet tall, his feet aren't that big. Also why is trampling a standard action? Moving is generally a move action, and if you're bigger than someone you should trample them for free, the way it currently is essentially would be the same as saying "it is now a standard action to step on the floor."
Lets make some changes:
Phillip the really big giant guy:
Colossal+ sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 90
AC: 31 (-16 size, +37 Natural), Touch -6, Flat-footed 39
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (6d8+36/19-20)
Space/Reach: (SEE LIMBS)
Special attacks: Crush, Improved Crush, fling, grapple, trample, Improved trample, Iron Heart Surge
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, Immunity to Mind effecting, SR40
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +14
Abilities: STR 59, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 7
Feats: Iron Will, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Massive Cleave*, Improved Trample*, Power Attack, Sunder
Details on new abilities:
Improved Trample: Phillip, the really big giant guy, tramples as a move action. Any individual of size gargantuan of smaller can be hit by Phillips trample for 6d6+24 bludgeoning damage. Any individual caught in the path of Phillips trample can choose to either make a DC41 Reflex save to avoid the damage (If taking the total defense action the DC of the save drops to 20, alternatively a player may ready a move action to avoid the trample) and move outside of the path of the trample (this cannot be done if flat footed or entangled, etc) OR they may instead choose to fail the save and make an attack of opportunity against Phillips leg instead. To determine if a target is being trampled, draw a line determining the path of Phillip the really big giant guy, then widen the path by 20ft, all individuals in the widened path are effected by the trample.
Massive Cleave: When striking with his melee club attack, Phillip targets an area instead of an individual. Phillip strikes a 15x15 square and makes an attack roll against every individual in the area. For every target hit Phillip and the target make opposed strenght checks as though Phillip were bullrushing them. If a target wins the opposed strenght check it suffers no damage and does not move, if it losses it takes 6d8+36 bludgeoning damage and is moved the same distance as though he were bullrushed. Phillip chooses the direction of the bullrush.
Iron Heart Surge: Works as the wablade maneuver except he does not have to recover maneuvers.
LIMBS:
Phillip the really big giant guy can be divided into 6 limbs. Each one has different qualities that make striking those limbs different. 1/2 of any damage done to any limb except Phillips face is done to Phillips HP total (face adds full damage to HP total). Sneak attack damage and critical strike damage does work against limbs, but does not add to the 1/2 damage done to the hp total, with the exception of the face, crits and sneak attacks against phillips face will add damage to phillips hp total.
When a limb reaches 0 HP it "dies", further attacking that limb will continue to harm Phillip, but will not accrue any additional benefits. See each individual limb for details.
LEGS:
Phillip has two legs, when one leg reaches 0 Phillip drops to his knees on that leg, he can only crawl and the reflex save to avoid his trample is dropped in half. When both legs are dropped to 0 (or when phillip dies), Phillip collapses, roll to determine direction of collapse (DM discretion on probability, etc), Phillips body does falling object damage to all those he collapses on unless they suceed on a DC15 reflex save to avoid the collapse and move out of the way (cannot be done if there is nowhere to move).
Phillips legs are 50 feet tall, in order to strike phillips other limbs individuals must be able to reach above phillips legs via weapons/spells/etc. If a character is below 50feet then Phillips reach with his club is only 30feet.
stats:
Size: Colossal
275HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Peircing
SR40
Space: Two 10x15 rectangles, spaced at most 10feet apart
ARMS:
Phillip has two arms. When one arm is incapcaitated, if it's the arm weilding the club (DM discretion) Phillip may either drop the club or swap which hand is weilding the club. Upon swapping the club to his other hand Phillip loses 12 damage from his club and receives a -8 penalty to attack rolls. Upon both arms being incapacitated, Phillip MUST drop the club.
Phillips arms are at heights 50-100. They are in the same fighting space as Phillips torso.
stats:
Size: Colossal
225HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Bludgeoning
SR40
Space: See below
Torso:
Phillip has one torse, upon the torso reaching 1/2 HP Phillip is automatically fatigued. Upon being incapacitated Phillip becomes exhausted and takes a -10 penalty to forst saves. The torso may continue to be damage for double damage to be dealth to phillip.
Phillips torso is at heights of 50-100.
stats:
Size: Colossal
350HP
AC: 25 (-8 size, +22 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 17
DR: 15/Piercing
SR40
Space: 40x40
Head:
Phillips head is 20feet tall and takes up a space of 20x20. Upon his head reaching 0 HP Phillip is blinded and can no longer shout and may continue to be struck for double damage towards his HP pool. Melee strikes within range of phillips head always do sneak attack damage.
Phillips head is at heights 100-120
stats:
Size: Colossal
200HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
SR40
Space: 20x20
Special Attacks: Shout
Shout: As a free action 1/round, Phillip the really big giant guy, may shout loudly. This deals 10d6 Sonic damage (Fort Save DC 41 for half) to any individuals within 40feet of Phillips head and knocks them away 10 feet.
So, what does everyone think? Whats the CR of this? A lot better than the Mountain Giant IMO.
Would you find this a lot more exciting to fight against than "I hack at his legs non stop" or "the wizard dominates him"