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Oko and Qailee
2013-12-18, 02:15 PM
Ok, so it's been noted before that fighting giant things in D&D has essentially been "Hit it in the legs until it dies" the goal of this encounter is to create a more exciting colossal boss fight. The goal is to make hitting different limbs have different effects/etc. I would like to thank in advance a thread I saw a long time ago discussing severing limbs in combat, as some of the basis for this encounter is designed around this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158843

Goals: Make limbs a thing, make size more meaningful

To start I copied the mountain giants (CR26) stats:
Colossal sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 80
AC: 31 (-8 size, +29 Natural), Touch 2, Flat-footed 31
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (4d8+24/19-20) or 2 slams +30 melee (2d6+16), or rock +15 ranged (4d8+16)
Space/Reach: 40x40/25ft
Special attacks: Crush, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, summon giants
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +10
Abilities: STR 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Improved Critical (MGClub), Power Attack, Sunder
(rest is irrelevant)

Ok, so some problems I have with this:
1) This guy is weilding a massive club, why does it only hit one target at a time? Yeah he can great cleave, but he should auto-matically hit multiple targets
2) This guy is weilding a MASSIVE CLUB, you should be sent flying, not drop dead exactly where he killed you
3) Hitting his legs are as valuable as stabbing him in the eye... why?
4) This guy is CR26 why? Will save +10? No DR, no SR, no immunities... ohkay...
5) The trample space makes so little sense, 40x40, this guy is 40feet tall, his feet aren't that big. Also why is trampling a standard action? Moving is generally a move action, and if you're bigger than someone you should trample them for free, the way it currently is essentially would be the same as saying "it is now a standard action to step on the floor."

Lets make some changes:
Phillip the really big giant guy:
Colossal+ sized Giant
HD: 30d8+390 (525HP)
Init: +0
Speed: 90
AC: 31 (-16 size, +37 Natural), Touch -6, Flat-footed 39
Attacks: Mountain Giant club: +20/25/20/15 melee (6d8+36/19-20)
Space/Reach: (SEE LIMBS)
Special attacks: Crush, Improved Crush, fling, grapple, trample, Improved trample, Iron Heart Surge
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, rock catching, scent, Immunity to Mind effecting, SR40
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +14
Abilities: STR 59, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 7
Feats: Iron Will, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, GreatCleave, Massive Cleave*, Improved Trample*, Power Attack, Sunder

Details on new abilities:
Improved Trample: Phillip, the really big giant guy, tramples as a move action. Any individual of size gargantuan of smaller can be hit by Phillips trample for 6d6+24 bludgeoning damage. Any individual caught in the path of Phillips trample can choose to either make a DC41 Reflex save to avoid the damage (If taking the total defense action the DC of the save drops to 20, alternatively a player may ready a move action to avoid the trample) and move outside of the path of the trample (this cannot be done if flat footed or entangled, etc) OR they may instead choose to fail the save and make an attack of opportunity against Phillips leg instead. To determine if a target is being trampled, draw a line determining the path of Phillip the really big giant guy, then widen the path by 20ft, all individuals in the widened path are effected by the trample.

Massive Cleave: When striking with his melee club attack, Phillip targets an area instead of an individual. Phillip strikes a 15x15 square and makes an attack roll against every individual in the area. For every target hit Phillip and the target make opposed strenght checks as though Phillip were bullrushing them. If a target wins the opposed strenght check it suffers no damage and does not move, if it losses it takes 6d8+36 bludgeoning damage and is moved the same distance as though he were bullrushed. Phillip chooses the direction of the bullrush.

Iron Heart Surge: Works as the wablade maneuver except he does not have to recover maneuvers.

LIMBS:
Phillip the really big giant guy can be divided into 6 limbs. Each one has different qualities that make striking those limbs different. 1/2 of any damage done to any limb except Phillips face is done to Phillips HP total (face adds full damage to HP total). Sneak attack damage and critical strike damage does work against limbs, but does not add to the 1/2 damage done to the hp total, with the exception of the face, crits and sneak attacks against phillips face will add damage to phillips hp total.

When a limb reaches 0 HP it "dies", further attacking that limb will continue to harm Phillip, but will not accrue any additional benefits. See each individual limb for details.

LEGS:
Phillip has two legs, when one leg reaches 0 Phillip drops to his knees on that leg, he can only crawl and the reflex save to avoid his trample is dropped in half. When both legs are dropped to 0 (or when phillip dies), Phillip collapses, roll to determine direction of collapse (DM discretion on probability, etc), Phillips body does falling object damage to all those he collapses on unless they suceed on a DC15 reflex save to avoid the collapse and move out of the way (cannot be done if there is nowhere to move).

Phillips legs are 50 feet tall, in order to strike phillips other limbs individuals must be able to reach above phillips legs via weapons/spells/etc. If a character is below 50feet then Phillips reach with his club is only 30feet.

stats:
Size: Colossal
275HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Peircing
SR40
Space: Two 10x15 rectangles, spaced at most 10feet apart

ARMS:
Phillip has two arms. When one arm is incapcaitated, if it's the arm weilding the club (DM discretion) Phillip may either drop the club or swap which hand is weilding the club. Upon swapping the club to his other hand Phillip loses 12 damage from his club and receives a -8 penalty to attack rolls. Upon both arms being incapacitated, Phillip MUST drop the club.

Phillips arms are at heights 50-100. They are in the same fighting space as Phillips torso.

stats:
Size: Colossal
225HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
DR: 15/Bludgeoning
SR40
Space: See below

Torso:
Phillip has one torse, upon the torso reaching 1/2 HP Phillip is automatically fatigued. Upon being incapacitated Phillip becomes exhausted and takes a -10 penalty to forst saves. The torso may continue to be damage for double damage to be dealth to phillip.

Phillips torso is at heights of 50-100.

stats:
Size: Colossal
350HP
AC: 25 (-8 size, +22 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 17
DR: 15/Piercing
SR40
Space: 40x40

Head:
Phillips head is 20feet tall and takes up a space of 20x20. Upon his head reaching 0 HP Phillip is blinded and can no longer shout and may continue to be struck for double damage towards his HP pool. Melee strikes within range of phillips head always do sneak attack damage.

Phillips head is at heights 100-120
stats:
Size: Colossal
200HP
AC: 23 (-8 size, +21 Natural), Touch 4, Flat-footed 15
SR40
Space: 20x20
Special Attacks: Shout

Shout: As a free action 1/round, Phillip the really big giant guy, may shout loudly. This deals 10d6 Sonic damage (Fort Save DC 41 for half) to any individuals within 40feet of Phillips head and knocks them away 10 feet.

So, what does everyone think? Whats the CR of this? A lot better than the Mountain Giant IMO.

Would you find this a lot more exciting to fight against than "I hack at his legs non stop" or "the wizard dominates him"

Debihuman
2013-12-18, 07:57 PM
First, mountain giants are PRIMITIVE. They probably weren't the kind of giant you want in the first place. See excerpt on mountain giants here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20020802

For anyone who is too lazy to check the link here is the text.

Mountain Giant
Colossal Giant (Earth)
Hit Dice: 30d8+390 (525 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 80 ft.
AC: 31 (-8 size, +29 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 31
Attacks: Mountain giant club +30/+25/+20/+15 melee, or 2 slams +30 melee, or rock +15/+10/+5/+0 ranged
Damage: Mountain giant club 4d8+24, slam 2d6+16, rock 4d8+16
Face/Reach: ft. by 40 ft./25 ft.
Special Attacks: Crush 2d6+24, fling, grapple, rock throwing, trample 4d6+24
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., rock catching, scent, summon giants
Saves: Fort +30, Ref +10, Will +10
Abilities: Str 43, Dex 10, Con 37, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Jump +18, Listen +16, Spot +16
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (mountain giant club), Power Attack, Sunder
Climate/Terrain: Any mountains
Organization: Solitary or family (2 plus 1-3 noncombatants)
Challenge Rating: 26
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic
Advancement: By character class

Among the largest giants in existence, mountain giants are primitive creatures given to cruelty and capriciousness. They take great pleasure in flinging boulders down upon passing smaller creatures, trying to hit them as they flee. Mountain giants often live to be 100 years old.

A mountain giant resembles a titanic hill giant, standing more than 40 feet tall and weighing nearly 50,000 pounds. Greasy, jet-black hair frames a face with bulbous features and a skin tone that can be any shade from tan to reddish brown. The typical mountain giant wears only minimal clothing -- usually a breechcloth and a shirt made of rough animal hide that barely covers a large pot belly.

A mountain giant's bag contains 3d4 rocks, 1d4+2 mundane items, and the giant's personal wealth. These items tend to be humanoid artifacts that the mountain giant considers playthings, such as broken wagons, small huts, and furniture, including tables and beds.

Combat

Mountain giants attack in a straightforward manner, stepping forth to overrun opponents whenever possible. They also enjoy picking up foes and hurling them against a mountainside. Many an armed foe has foiled a mountain giant's initial grab attempt only to be scooped up by the monster's other hand.

In melee, mountain giants use their height to smash their clubs down on the heads of their foes. A mountain giant who feels seriously threatened often uses its summon giants ability to engage its foes with other opponents, then steps back to hurl boulders. Against groups of smaller foes, mountain giants prefer their trample or crush attacks.

Crush (Ex): A mountain giant who jumps at least 20 feet into the air (or jumps down from a height of at least 20 feet) can land on opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the giant's body. (This is normally a 40-foot square, but the giant can instead opt to come down on its seat and cover a 40-foot by 60-foot area.) Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 38) or be pinned, automatically taking 2d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if the giant chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

Fling (Ex): A mountain giant who successfully grapples a foe two or more size categories smaller than itself can hurl the creature as a standard action. A flung creature travels up to 120 feet and takes 12d6 points of damage. A creature that is flung off a mountain takes this amount of damage or the appropriate falling damage, whichever is greater. The giant also can throw the flung creature as though it were a boulder. In this case, the flung creature takes 12d6+16 points of damage, and any opponent it strikes takes 4d8+16 points of damage.

Grapple (Ex): If a mountain giant hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a slam (used as a melee touch attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple (grapple bonus +54). If it gets a hold, it can fling the opponent on the next round. Alternatively, the mountain giant has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use one hand to hold the opponent (-20 penalty on grapple check, but the mountain giant is not considered grappled). In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals slam damage.

Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a mountain giant can trample opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. This attack deals 4d6+24 points of bludgeoning damage. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 41) for half damage.

Scent (Ex): A mountain giant can detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

Summon Giants (Sp): Once per day, a mountain giant can attempt to summon 1d8+1 ogres, 1d6+1 trolls, or 1d4+1 hill giants with a 25% chance of success.

Skills and Feats: A mountain giant has EHD as though it were a Huge creature.

Mountain Giant Society

Mountain giants live largely solitary lives in desolate mountain ranges and volcanic peaks. Though most of them resent intruders, some like to keep a few dwarves and humans as pets. When more than one mountain giant is encountered, it is usually a mated pair with children.

Mountain Giant Characters

A mountain giant's favored class is barbarian, though the cleric class is also popular among the race. Mountain giant clerics can choose any two of the following domains: Earth, Strength, and Trickery.

A mountain giant PC's effective character level (ECL) is equal to its level + 25. Thus, a 1st-level mountain giant barbarian has an ECL of 26 and is the equivalent of a 26th-level character.


You will note that the mountain giant is written using 3.0 rules so the first thing that needs to be done is make it 3.5.

After that is accomplished then you can go about adding appropriate abilities.

For example

Colossal Swing (Ex): If two targets that are Huge or smaller are adjacent to each other when the mountain giant makes a successful attack with his club, both targets take the same damage. If targets are smaller than Medium size, then up to four targets may be hit. Targets that are Small size and smaller are also flung 1d6 10 feet, and take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. Creatures smaller than Small size are also knocked prone and are dazed for one round. A successful Fortitude save (DC to be determined but likely strength-based) negates the stunning but not the damage.


Debby

Oko and Qailee
2013-12-18, 09:13 PM
WOW, I'm dumb, I didn't pay attention to version. I think the big thing was I was just trying to create a concept of seperating limbs by usefulness for large encounters.

Sorry.

EugeneVoid
2013-12-19, 12:07 AM
I'm relatively new to 3.5, but you could design the encounter (assuming, it is to be like a boss fight) like a WoW fight.

Put in stages.

At first, he'll be smashing at people, and grabbing at them, tossing them away. Shouting, stunning, smashing the ground.

Then he'll push away everyone close to him when he reaches medium health, and then he shouts, dazing everyone for a round, while a bunch of giants appear. He backs off and tosses giant rocks, that change the terrain, etc.

Debihuman
2013-12-19, 04:07 PM
WOW, I'm dumb, I didn't pay attention to version. I think the big thing was I was just trying to create a concept of seperating limbs by usefulness for large encounters.

Sorry.

Not dumb at all. It's easy to miss stuff like that.

To bring it up to 3.5

BAB/Grapple; +22/+54

Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft. This is for a tall creature. This is a big change from 3.0.

He should have 11 feats and he only has 7. I recommend giving him Awesome Blow (a monster feat), Weapon Focus (mountain giant club), Overwhelming Critical (from Epic Level Handbook) and Fling Ally (from Races of Stone), this allows him to throw those summoned giants at PCs.

Debby