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View Full Version : [Request for Challenges] What don't we have a tier 3 version of?



dspeyer
2014-01-02, 02:27 AM
A while back, I imagined putting together The Book of Tier 3. The idea was a collection of classes such that any character concept could be built out of them, and any party of them would be balanced.

Various people here have done some gathering. And a few have taken on the much harder task of trying to figure out if something really is balanced. Right now I'm interested in filling in the gaps. If you were playing such a game, what character concept would you be unable to build? You can describe it in terms of other-tier classes, the key idea of why the character is cool, a character from fiction or legend, a trope... whatever.

I'll see what I can brew for those concepts.

nonsi
2014-01-02, 07:45 AM
AFAIK, there's not official class-combo that comes anywhere near describing a character like Paul Muad-Dib (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Atreides) or Leto_Atreides_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leto_Atreides_II).
If there were, it could spare me this effort (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224838).

I like the fact that my suggested class manages to do that, but I don't like the fact that the class offers customization (not counting general feats) only as far as placebos go (not a lot of choice I had, given all Bene-Gesserits practice the same set of power... and Paul's powers were a subset of Leto's).
So if there's a class combo for Dune's leading characters I'd sure like to see it - Then we can ask if it's T3 or not and how to make it T3.

The Mormegil
2014-01-02, 10:08 AM
I don't have any idea about homebrewed concepts. But I did this list a while ago for official 3.5 content and got the following:

ALTREADY TIER 3
Bard
Ranger (using Wild Shape variant)
Incarnate
Psychic Warrior
Binder
Beguiler
Duskblade
Crusader
Swordsage (and Unarmed Swordsage)
Warblade
Factotum
Dread Necromancer
Warmage*

TIER 4 OR LOWER CONCEPTS
# only including those that do not have an easy correspondent in the above list
Barbarian (arguably, Tiger Claw users can be used)
Spellthief (this is a tricky one, but also not very popular)
Warlock (I think this can be buffed a bit and be Tier 3)
Hexblade (also tricky but not very popular IME)
Soulknife (I often just package this into Psychic Warrior and call it a day)


TIER 2 OR HIGHER CONCEPTS
# only including those that do not have an easy correspondent in the above list
Cleric / Favored Soul
Druid / Spirit Shaman
Wizard / Archivist
Sorcerer
Psion / Wilden
Shadowcaster
Artificer


What I would do to have T3 versions of every concept (rather than class) is to create additional specialist casters (ŗ la Beguiler and Dread Necromancer) for every school: a Loremaster (covering the prepared caster archetype too), a Transmuter, a Summoner, a Healer (that covers Abjuration and protective spells, which makes sense to me), a Geomancer (that covers druidic casting, while the ranger covers shapeshifting), a Telepath and a Telekineticist (that cover psionic spellcasting). I would consider the Crusader and background characterization enough for divine archetypes but I'm probably a bit biased because nobody I know likes or plays divine characters anyway. I would give better casting to both Hexblade and Spellthief (on par with the Bard). I would merge the Psychic Warrior and the Soulknife.

That leaves Artificer, Warlock // Shadowcaster (arguably covered with Binder and Dread Necromancer), Barbarian (arguably covered through Tiger Claw).

* I consider Warmage Tier 3 after I played with a smart one. Sure they have a lackluster spell list but what is there is enough to do a lot of interesting stuff (Black Tentacles, Cloudkill, Stinking Cloud, Elemental Swarm...) and use Eclectic Learning in a smart way to fill the gaps. You could argue that you are VERY limited, but I consider the class on par with the Duskblade if well played.

Just to Browse
2014-01-02, 01:56 PM
Assassin, summoner, pure psychic/telepath without brain lasers, artificer.

dspeyer
2014-01-02, 02:50 PM
Some notes on casters:

ConceptExisting classAbjurer/HealerPublic Health Worker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16714639&postcount=9)Conjuration for Battlefield ControlThe Ectoplancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13399483&postcount=23)Conjuration(summoning)The Caller (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244504)DivinationThe Seer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301078)Enchantment/IllusionBeguilerEvocationSeveral "blaster"s, including warmage fixesNecromancyDread NecromancerTransmutationThe Updraft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14159484&postcount=23)Maximum FlexibilityThe Ritualist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235981)DivineThe Village Priest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168918)Nature-themedSome attempts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16670301), none of which are quite finished

Abjuration is notably absent. It's a weak school on its own. I'd been playing with a base class version of Abjurant Champion, but I think a healing/protecting class might be better.

So, things that have been mentioned...
Kwisatz HaderachAt high levels, the character might need to know what's coming better than the DM. I'm not sure that's doable.Artificer (mentioned twice) I think I need to read an artificer handbook before attempting thisBarbarianWarlock Does the Archon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14656902&postcount=104) seem to be on the right track? I could add other versions for other alignments.Shadowcaster I don't know this one at allAssassinAs an ACF for swordsage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16713872&postcount=6)SummonerMentioned abovepure psychic/telepath without brain lasers Does beguiler not do this?

dspeyer
2014-01-02, 03:25 PM
Assassin Swordsage

Beauty of the sublime way?
Win without fighting.
Kill before you are noticed.

Lose
Discipline Focus (all)
Access to Diamond Mind and Stone Dragon
Proficiency with two-handed martial melee weapons


Gain
Death attack. At first level. As DMG assassin except the save dc is 10 + 1/2 initiator level + wis mod.
Poison use. At sixth level, no longer risk mishap when applying poison
Proficiency with martial ranged and thrown weapons
Spellcraft as class skill
Spellcasting (prepared, wis-based, divine from DMG assassin list)


Must worship death, killing, a god of those or something similar. Possibly in addition to other things.

Spells per day:
Level123412341516272821931103211321232113331143321 5332163321173331183332193332203332

Veklim
2014-01-02, 04:21 PM
Well, there's botthe6th's (and to a lesser extent, DerTollUdo and my) telekineticist in my Sig. We figured it to be high tier 3 although the Pure ACF probably butts into tier 2. That's basically a solid psionic tk specialist class...beyond that, I've seen a lot of attempts at making school-specific tier 3 casters but they often run into the simple trouble that the schools are not balanced, therefore making it very hard to balance classes using them...

Eldan
2014-01-02, 04:46 PM
Well, in my signature, you'll find a generalist sorcerer and wizard that Morph Bark, at least, tiered at Tier 3. There's a bit of a choice involved, you either get versatility or power, but you can have either.

dspeyer
2014-01-02, 05:42 PM
Public Health Worker

LevelBABFortRefWillSpecialSpells per day0123456789102225321333Cure Minor Wounds643133364342444Extend Abjuration65452444654363555Resist Energy6554735556554384666Preventative Casting6555494666755543105777Death Ward7555541157777655543126888Mass Casting765555413688876655543147999Antimagic Field76655554157999766655543168101010Brute Counterspell7666555541781010107666655543189111111G reater Restoration7666655554199111111Disjunction777666655 52010121212True Resurrection7777766665
Hit die: d8
Skills: 2+int
Class Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge(any), Heal, Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Proficiencies: All simple weapons, light and medium armor and shields

Spellcasting: Public Health Workers cast divine spells spontaneously from their entire class list using wisdom. The spells are powered by their dedication to the cause of protecting people (or, on occasion, protecting their people). Many, but not all, Public Health Workers also worship gods of healing and protection.

Spell-like abilities: At the levels shown on the table, Public Health Workers gain the following spell-like abilities usable at-will: Cure Minor Wounds, Resist Energy, Death Ward, Antimagic Field, Greater Restoration, Disjunction, True Resurrection. Save DCs, if relevant, are wisdom-based. As SLAs, these do not require XP or material components.

Extend Abjuration(su): All abjurations a PHW casts are extended as if by the feat at no cost.

Preventative Casting(su): A PHW may cast any conjuration(healing) spell as a preventative. The spell has no effect when cast, but the next time the target is subjected to an effect the spell could undo, the effect is cancelled or ameliorated as if the spell were cast immediately afterwards (if the effect drops the target to -10hp or similar and the spell undoes that, the target does not die, or even stumble). If no effect takes place within 1 day per caster, the spell dissipates. No creature can have more than one preventative waiting at a time.

Mass Casting(su): A PHW may cast a spell which normally targets one creature on a group of creatures instead. The group must fit in a circle no more than 50 ft across. The PHW must walk around the group while casting. The casting takes 10 minutes longer and uses a spell slot 3 levels higher than normal. It cannot be done with spells that have XP or material costs.

Brute Counterspell(su): As a swift action, a PHW can counterspell using a spell slot of a higher level than the incoming spell. (A spellcraft check is needed to determine the level of the incoming spell, but if that fails guessing is a viable option.)

Spell list

0
Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp.

1
Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless Water M: Makes holy water.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Hold Portal: Holds door shut.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Remove Fear: Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per four levels.
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.
Vigor, Lesser

2
Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.:
Consecrate M: Fills area with positive energy, making undead weaker.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse.
Make Whole: Repairs an object.
Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks.
Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy: Ignores first 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Shield Other F: You take half of subjectís damage.
Status: Monitors condition, position of allies.

3
Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects.
Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Remove Disease: Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Speak with Dead: Corpse answers one question/two levels.
Vigor
Vigor, Mass Lesser
Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater.
Water Walk: Subject treads on water as if solid.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.

4
Cure Critical Wounds: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).
Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement.
Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.
Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains.
Spell Immunity: Subject is immune to one spell per four levels.
Stoneskin M: Ignore 10 points of damage per attack.

5
Atonement F X: Removes burden of misdeeds from subject.
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Cure Light Wounds, Mass: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Hallow M: Designates location as holy.
Mageís Private Sanctum: Prevents anyone from viewing or scrying an area for 24 hours.
Permanency X:Makes certain spells permanent.
Raise Dead M: Restores life to subject who died as long as one day/level ago.
Spell Resistance: Subject gains SR 12 + level.
Vigor, Greater

6
Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft.
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check.
Globe of Invulnerability: As lesser globe of invulnerability, plus 4th-level spell effects.
Guards and Wards: Array of magic effects protect area.
Heal: Cures 10 points/level of damage, all diseases and mental conditions.
Stone to Flesh: Restores petrified creature.

7
Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Forcecage M: Cube or cage of force imprisons all inside.
Regenerate: Subjectís severed limbs grow back, cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +35).
Restoration, Greater X: As restoration, plus restores all levels and ability scores.
Resurrection M: Fully restore dead subject.
Sequester: Subject is invisible to sight and scrying; renders creature comatose.
Spell Turning: Reflect 1d4+6 spell levels back at caster.

8
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.
Dimensional Lock: Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying.
Prismatic Wall: Wallís colors have array of effects.
Protection from Spells M F: Confers +8 resistance bonus.
Spell Immunity, Greater: As spell immunity, but up to 8th-level spells.

9
Disjunction: Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.
Heal, Mass: As heal, but with several subjects.
Prismatic Sphere: As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides.
Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds.
True Resurrection M: As resurrection, plus remains arenít needed.



(This could probably use a few additions. For one thing, I didn't really feel like pulling out my Spell Compendium)

Veklim
2014-01-02, 05:50 PM
Just a small though dspeyer....shouldn't your PHW have heal as a skill..? :smallwink:

Edit:
Probably craft and certainly profession too, come to think about it...

dspeyer
2014-01-02, 05:52 PM
Just a small though dspeyer....shouldn't your PHW have heal as a skill..? :smallwink:

Added. Not that I expect any will ever put ranks in it.

Veklim
2014-01-02, 05:53 PM
Fair point, although I believe there are a few useful applications, especially with certain feats. Quite like the simple functionality though, works nicely as a class.

Network
2014-01-02, 06:04 PM
What about truenamer?

Eldan
2014-01-02, 06:10 PM
What about truenamer?

Any class that uses spells with somatic components?

Network
2014-01-02, 06:46 PM
Any class that uses spells with somatic components?
It doesn't cover the ''learn the truename of an enemy to get power over him'' aspect.

Jormengand
2014-01-02, 07:20 PM
It doesn't cover the ''learn the truename of an enemy to get power over him'' aspect.

Uh... Kellus' and Kyeudo's are high tier 4 I think, and mine's low tier 2. They'd be easy enough to combine or change slightly or whatever. I might actually write a fix for truename research at some point, too.

dspeyer
2014-01-03, 01:18 AM
It doesn't cover the ''learn the truename of an enemy to get power over him'' aspect.

I'm tempted to add truenames as a circumstance bonus for my Ritualist. That doesn't really make it a truenamer, though.

The tricky thing with truenaming is that either getting truenames is straightforward and the whole concept vanishes or it's difficult and the class becomes nearly unplayable. I'm inclined to go for something like Dresden Files, in which naming is very powerful but usually doesn't happen. Maybe there's another way.

ngilop
2014-01-04, 08:09 PM
I have yet to see a dragon shaman fixed up to tier 3 on this site ( i may have just overlooked one though)


I can tell you right now.. having to wait untill 19th to get flight is ludicrous.


it be nice to see a bumped up Dragon Shaman, with maybe at 20th level capstone netting you half dragon ?

Veklim
2014-01-04, 08:57 PM
No maybe about it, seemed silly enough to me first time around that Dragon shaman didn't give you half-Dragon template, any serious rewrite should have to come up with some damned good reasons not to honestly. I seem to remember a half-written one swinging past my radar a few months ago that had some promise, shall try and trace it tomorrow...

johnbragg
2014-01-04, 09:15 PM
I think the biggest gap in the Book of Tier 3 is a nature-caster. It's a tough nut to crack--the SNA line by itself might put you in Tier 3, but without SNA and without Wildshaping, your druid is almost unrecognizable.

ngilop
2014-01-04, 09:35 PM
I have a Primal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264875) its not a nature 'casting'

But it is wildshaping and nature themed invocations.

johnbragg
2014-01-04, 09:56 PM
I have a Primal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264875) its not a nature 'casting'

But it is wildshaping and nature themed invocations.

Right. The Primal isn't bad, but it fills the same type of niche as the Wildshape Variant Ranger. What's missing is the guy with twigs in his hair who points his fingers at vines and casts Entangle, then telepathically commands a wildcat to attack his enemies, and finishes it off by calling down lightning bolts from the sky.

ngilop
2014-01-04, 10:18 PM
doing it that way will only work if you get rid of wildshape make the animal companion come on at 4th level and give it bard casting.

and actuality my primal can do everything you listed ( twigs in hair, entangle, mentally command X animal)).. well except bolts of lightning.. unless you count control weather LOL

the provlem is WoTC gave druids class features that are more powerful than the majorities if classes published. wildshape instanbtly make a druid better than any full BaB class out there in a fight it just brings not only insane levels of power, but the versatility it brings is crazy. and wildshape is the reason why druids are not as affected by Vow of Poverty as most other classes are.

full animal compaion means now you have a leadership at first level only your 'cohort' READ: animal companion is better than an equal level fighter.

then there is the spell casting

johnbragg
2014-01-04, 10:29 PM
doing it that way will only work if you get rid of wildshape make the animal companion come on at 4th level and give it bard casting.


No wildshaping is obvious. The animal companion could go or stay--it's not what makes the Druid a game-breaker.

What to do with casting is the hard part. Summon NAture's Ally by itself gives a tremendous amount of options. On the other hand, the ability at near-epic levels to drop a blizzard or sandstorm or a flood on a city that displeases you is a pretty important feature of the class, and you need the high-level spells for that.

dspeyer
2014-01-05, 01:04 PM
Two Druid possibilities...

Wilderness Avatar

LevelBABFortRefWillSpecialSpells/DayMax Spell Level Known01234567891st2nd3rd4thAll10022Wild Empathy3112103342113213342121431445322253144532132 64255633232175255643214218626664332431963666443215 31107377644332532211837765443216322129488654433264 22139488655443217422141049965544332743311511599655 54432184331161251010655544332853311712510106555544 32195331181361111655554433295441191461111655555543 395542201561212655555554495553
Hit die: d8
Skills: 4+int
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge(nature), Knowledge(the planes), Handle Animal, Heal, Ride, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim

Proficiencies: Unarmed Strike, Club, Shortspear, Longspear, Quarterstaff, Spear, Javelin, Sling, Light Hammer, Handaxe, Light Pick, Heavy Pick, Trident, Warhammer, Greatclub, Shortbow, Longbow, light armor. May not wear metal armor (loses spellcasting if voluntarily wearing metal).

Wild Empathy: As druid

Spellcasting: At first level, a Wilderness Avatar selects a primary spell list, which must be a major list. At later levels, she selects 3 more lists, which may be major or minor. She knows spells from her lists up to the level indicated on the table. Starting at 14th level, she knows very low-level spells from all the lists. She may cast any spell she knows spontaneously. This includes she can use a high-level slot to cast a metamagiced version of a spell from a secondary list. All spellcasting is divine and wisdom-based.

Spell Lists:
Major Lists

animal
0
Create Water
Purify Food and Drink

1
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Detect Animals or Plants
Hide from Animals
Speak with Animals

2
Animal Messenger
Animal Trance
Hold Animal
Reduce Animal

3
Dominate Animal

4
Giant Vermin
Repel Vermin

5
Animal Growth
Awaken

6
Antilife Shell

8
Animal Shapes

9
Antipathy
Shapechange
Sympathy


healing
0
Cure Minor Wounds
Virtue

1
Cure Light Wounds
Goodberry

2
Delay Poison
Restoration, Lesser

3
Cure Moderate Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Remove Disease

4
Cure Serious Wounds
Reincarnate

5
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward

6
Cure Light Wounds, Mass

7
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Heal

8
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass

9
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Regenerate


plant
0
Create Water
Detect Poison

1
Detect Animals or Plants
Entangle

2
Tree Shape
Warp Wood
Wood Shape

3
Diminish Plants
Plant Growth
Speak with Plants

4
Antiplant Shell
Blight
Command Plants

5
Tree Stride
Wall of Thorns

6
Liveoak
Repel Wood
Transport via Plants

7
Animate Plants
Changestaff
Transmute Metal to Wood

8
Control Plants

9
Shambler



summoning
0
Summon Nature's Ally 0 (summons any animal of less than 1 HD. The animal does not fight, but serves you in ways it considers safe)

1
Summon Nature's Ally I

2
Summon Nature's Ally II
Summon Swarm

3
Summon Nature's Ally III

4
Summon Nature's Ally IV

5
Insect Plague
Summon Nature's Ally V

6
Summon Nature's Ally VI

7
Creeping Doom
Summon Nature's Ally VII

8
Summon Nature's Ally VIII

9
Elemental Swarm
Shambler
Summon Nature's Ally IX


survival
0
Create Water
Detect Poison
Guidance
Know Direction
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
Resistance

1
Detect Snares and Pits
Endure Elements

2
Spider Climb
Spike Growth

3
Snare
Protection from Energy

4
Scrying
Freedom of Movement

5
Commune with Nature
Tree Stride

6
Find the Path

7
Control Weather
Scrying, Greater
True Seeing

9
Foresight

violence
0
Acid Splash
Ray of Frost

1
Magic Fang
Magic Stone
Shillelagh

2
Barkskin
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Chill Metal
Heat Metal

3
Contagion
Magic Fang, Greater
Poison

4
Rusting Grasp

5
Baleful Polymorph
Stoneskin

6
Bear's Endurance, Mass
Bull's Strength, Mass
Ironwood

7
Fire Storm

8
Earthquake
Finger of Death

9
Storm of Vengeance


Minor Lists

air
0
Ghost Sound

1
Obscuring Mist

2
Fog Cloud
Gust of Wind

3
Wind Wall

4
Air Walk

5
Control Winds


earth
0
Resistance

1
Magic Stone

2
Soften Earth and Stone

3
Meld into Stone
Spike Growth
Stone Shape

4
Spike Stones

5
Stone Tell
Transmute Mud to Rock
Transmute Rock to Mud


energy
0
Light

1
Faerie Fire

2
Resist Energy

3
Call Lightning
Daylight
Protection from Energy

4
Ice Storm

5
Call Lightning Storm


fire
0
Flare

1
Faerie Fire
Produce Flame

2
Fire Trap
Flame Blade
Flaming Sphere

3
Quench

4
Flame Strike

5
Wall of Fire


magic
0
Detect Magic
Read Magic

1
Identify

2
Owl's Wisdom

3
Dispel Magic

4
Dimensional Anchor

5
Atonement
Hallow
Spellstaff
Unhallow


motion
0
Know Direction

1
Jump
Longstrider
Pass without Trace

2
Cat's Grace
Spider Climb

4
Freedom of Movement

5
Tree Stride
Overland Flight


water
0
Create Water

1
Obscuring Mist

2
Fog Cloud

3
Sleet Storm
Water Breathing

4
Control Water
Ice Storm

5
Ice Storm



Grove Priest

Grove Priests are Villiage Priests (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168918) for people who think less in terms of stable farms and more in terms of sacred groves. Grove Priests revere nature itself, rather than any deity of it.

Changes:
May not wear metal armor
Deity's favored weapon is the greatclub
Must be neutral on at least one axis
Is treated as true neutral for purposes of Alignment list spells (e.g. can cast protection from anything, cannot cast align weapon, can only cast atonement for nature-reverence purposes)
Instead of life or death, has all Summon Nature's Ally spells
May select from the following domains: Air, Animal, Death, Earth, Healing, Fire, Ocean, Pestilence, Plant, Scalykind, Spider, Storm, Water, Windstorm
Instead of turn/rebuke undead, gain rebuke animals. This counts as turn/rebuke undead for prerequisites and powering feats. It does not affect magical beasts.