PDA

View Full Version : Baleful Polymorph and Int boosts



Mewtarthio
2007-01-19, 09:58 PM
If somebody is hit with a Baleful Polymorph spell and fails the subsequent Will save, he supposedly loses all memory of his past life and becomes the animal in mind as well. However, since this condition is reversible if somebody later tracks him down and hits him with dispel magic, break enchantment, or a similar effect, it seems reasonable to assume that the victim's memories aren't simply erased altogether but rather "locked away," inaccessible in the victim's current form.

So, what happens if the victim's current form is improved to human-level intelligence? Let's say a druid comes along and Awakens the victim. Does he act like any other Awakened animal, or does the victim recover his past life, as well? Or let's say an arcane caster happens upon the victim and makes him a familiar (or else the particularly sadistic transmuter takes him home as a pet for his daughter, who decides to take him as a familiar when her sorcerous powers are unexpectedly revealed, if you wante something that makes halfway decent sense). Does the victim recover his memories immediately, once he gets a sufficient Int score, or never? And if he does recover his life, is he still bound to his master?

BCOVertigo
2007-01-19, 10:02 PM
If somebody is hit with a Baleful Polymorph spell and fails the subsequent Will save, he supposedly loses all memory of his past life and becomes the animal in mind as well. However, since this condition is reversible if somebody later tracks him down and hits him with dispel magic, break enchantment, or a similar effect, it seems reasonable to assume that the victim's memories aren't simply erased altogether but rather "locked away," inaccessible in the victim's current form.

So, what happens if the victim's current form is improved to human-level intelligence? Let's say a druid comes along and Awakens the victim. Does he act like any other Awakened animal, or does the victim recover his past life, as well? Or let's say an arcane caster happens upon the victim and makes him a familiar (or else the particularly sadistic transmuter takes him home as a pet for his daughter, who decides to take him as a familiar when her sorcerous powers are unexpectedly revealed, if you wante something that makes halfway decent sense). Does the victim recover his memories immediately, once he gets a sufficient Int score, or never? And if he does recover his life, is he still bound to his master?

I'd say if it takes a dispel to undo the problem, a simple stat boost isn't going to be enough regardless of the source. He'd most likely act like a regular awakened/familiared animal of that type.

Jack_Simth
2007-01-19, 10:15 PM
Unspecified in RAW -> DM call.

A DM could make the call Awaken, Fox's Cunning, familiarizing, or whatever restores some portion of the victim's memories for the duration of the change in Intelligence.

A DM could make the call that the victim is just treated like a normal critter for such things until the Baelful Polymorph is removed, at which point the victim is himself again.

A DM could make the call that the changes to the victim persist after the Baleful Polymorph is removed - so the 20th level Wizard who was Baelful Polymorphed into a rat, then bound as a familiar to a 1st level Sorcerer has 2 hp, while the Victim that was Awakened is a Magical Beast with two extra HD, a better Charisma score, a randomized intelligence score, and a different set of languages.

It's not spelled out, and there's no particular reason, RAW, to pick one over another. It's up to the DM.

MaN
2007-01-20, 09:49 PM
The spell description says absolutely nothing about the target of the spell losing its memory. I've colored the specific features/abilities the subject loses. Since the subject gains the alignment and INT, WIS, and CHA of its new form you could say that it loses its alignment and mental stats as well. Note that the polymorphed creature still retains its class and level (BAB, base saves, HP, etc).


As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.
If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that arenít extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.
Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-21, 01:26 AM
What's that from? It looks like 3.0 (particularly given that "as polymorph" would imply a non-permanent duration in 3.5). Here's the SRD's opinion:


If the subject remains in the new form for 24 consecutive hours, it must attempt a Will save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#will). If this save fails, it loses its ability to understand language, as well as all other memories of its previous form, and its Hit Dice and hit points change to match an average creature of its new form. These abilities and statistics return to normal if the effect is later ended.

Also note that the subject that's first hit with the spell immediately loses everything except alignment, personality, memories, and HD (though it's saves and BAB are those of the animal; it only uses its original HD to calculate hit points and the effects of spells like Blasphemy).

Indon
2007-01-21, 02:37 AM
I'd do something really interesting with it and have only occasional, disjointed memories peek out.

Like, say, a Bard ends up with this happening. When applicable, I'd sometimes secretly make Bardic lore checks for the awakened/whathaveyou animal. If the check reveals something useful, a piece of knowledge floats to the top of the animal's mind, unbidden and seemingly from nowhere.

MaN
2007-01-21, 03:11 AM
What's that from? It looks like 3.0 (particularly given that "as polymorph" would imply a non-permanent duration in 3.5).
That was from the PHB and the SRD downloaded from WOTC which is not kept updated with the D&D errata file.:smallconfused: So the errata does indeed state as you quoted that the subject loses all memories and fully becomes the creature it was changed into.

Unfortunately, the only spell I know of which states that the subject regains memories is reincarnate, which means that you would have to kill the baleful polymorphed creature and then resurrect it into a new body in order to restore most of its memories of its previous life and form. If you have wish or miracle cast upon the subject you could then return him to his original form.

That's a pretty roundabout way of doing it but it's the only thing I can think of off the tope of my head and I don't really feel like doing much research on the subject. Maybe someone else can think of a better way of going about it.


EDIT: Big brain-fart . . . of course you could dispel the effect and return the polymorphed creature back to its original state just as BCOVertigo said.

Feralgeist
2007-01-21, 07:43 AM
What about this one.


Say you cast Stone to flesh, then you cast Animate object on the statue that the person became. Then, you cast awaken construct on the animated/awakened statue, and then you dispel the flesh to stone.

Does this give you a person with 2 personalities, or the old one back, or the new one? WHO KNOWS!

Green Bean
2007-01-21, 08:00 AM
What about this one.


Say you cast Stone to flesh, then you cast Animate object on the statue that the person became. Then, you cast awaken construct on the animated/awakened statue, and then you dispel the flesh to stone.

Does this give you a person with 2 personalities, or the old one back, or the new one? WHO KNOWS!

What it does is make the DM's head explode :smallbiggrin:

InaVegt
2007-01-21, 08:11 AM
First, Flesh to stone is instantanious, so you can't dispel it. Second, flesh to stone states the creature isn't dead, as such it is no object and can't be animated. I must admit I chuckled at this, but by raw it doesn't work.