Fantasy Sci-fi setting (or Sci-fi Fantasy?)

[Cikomyr]

Hi there people!

I had an idea (which I am sure isn't THAT original) of making a Fantasy game (with Fantasy element and Fantasy feel) but, which its prime mover of mythology and magic background, is actually sci-fi in nature.

Now, I don't necessarily want the game to be "the players discover the sci-fi nature of the setting". In fact, I'll do my best to keep this particular piece of the paradigm away from them. Only if they start to question certain... givens of fantasy world would they peer outside of Platon's cave.

Part 1 - Basics

As always, the world has to be human-centric. It's just plain better to go with what you know best, and give a familiar point of view to experience everything.

The "game world" would actually turn out to be some planet that aliens have historically meddled with to gain something out of. Let's call it Terra. Lemme explain in more details, first by starting with its "Gods and Demons" --> the two alien factions


Part 2 - Mythology


Like all good fantasy mythology, we need to have "good guys" and "bad guys". I realize this sounds a lot like the Vorlon vs. Shadows (I do love B5). Let's call them "Gods" and "Demons" for now; maybe we can find better names later.

There has to be one reason why two alien powers would bother meddling with the native population of a planet. Going alongside Colonialist motive, I figured it's because one the alien specie wants to gather a certain kind of ressource. It can be Spice, can be Gems, can be Warpstone; I don't really mind. Let's call it FaithStones.

Either this special resource is important to both Gods and Demons, or maybe it's just important to the Gods' technology, and the Demons' interference is just a desire to weaken the Gods' Empire by sabotaging their sources of FaithStone. The Demons' actions on Terra is just the action of one among countless other worlds. But obviously, an Empire's backdrop conflict is literally a conflict of epic proportion, struggle of life and death to the people concerned.

Part 3 - Main Methods of Meddling

Now that we have established why the Gods would come to Terra and meddle, let's see how they have meddled.

They would probably setup some form of cult that ask yearly offering of Faithstones in exchange of bounties of food, good crops and protection against the Demons. Maybe the most worthy offerers are offered a Magical Sword every decade? A direct exchange of goods, with the equivalent exchange being set in the Holy Scriptures?

Also, those who do not provide a strict minimum of Faithstone for too long might be cursed by the Gods; they could know droughts or even rains of fire. Plague might strike their land.

Part 4 - Stock Fantasy Races

Just like good colonial powers, they maybe have secured the assistance of certain of the natives and uplifted them with technology magical powers. Perhaps given them medical technology means to lengthen their life span? In exchange for this superiority in lifespan and magical power, these... Elves would be the ones making sure all human nations never forget the Scriptures. They would be the ones building the Great Temples where all offering must be brought. They are the ones to go to see if you want to petition the Gods for something exceptional.

It wouldn't surprise if, when they arrived on Terra, the Gods selected another people and made them more.. fit miners, to go exploit the FaithStones more effectively. They made them smaller, tougher, with a love of mining. The Dwarves were thus the initial labor class, but as time went, they grew resentful of their yearly tribute to the Gods and thus stopped paying tribute. They hid deep under the Mountains, away from the God's Wrath, and now have strived for thousands of years to pierce the FaithStone's power. They have managed to create wondrous artifact; nothing akin to the Elves' arsenal, but at least they built it themselves.

They distrust the Elves, whom they see as profiteers, who distrust them back. Tales are told that, in the old times, before the Great Betrayal (also known in Dwarven annals as the Withdrawal to Freedom), Terra's cities were covered in wonders. The Sun shined one cue, Demons would never touch the world and everybody lived fat as the Gods' favored people. But since the Dwarves stopped supplying their enormous amounts of FaithStones, the Gods seemed to have, in part, turned their back on Terra and abandoned them.

(i.e. when the colony became less profitable, less ressources were invested by the Gods into maintaining the colony --> cost/benefit).


Most of what is evil in the world is, obviously, come from the Demons. their favourite methods of undermining warfare is to give the location of a planet to one of their bio-weapon, known as the Orcs. the Orcs use their own limited technology magic to create portals and invade the worlds their master Demons see fit. No matter how many times the Elves or the Human Kingdoms warred deep into the Orc Lands, they could never find trace of their cities, villages. Orc babies are never found; even if evidence has shown that there was Orc youth.

[Cikomyr]

It's obviously a work in progress, but I like the idea so far.

No idea how to work with wizards. Maybe it's some form of mutation provoked by the FaithStone?

Again, the idea is to create a fantasy setting where the wheels behind the scenes are turned by sci-fi elements. I have to seek rationales as if it's a sci-fi, but tell the tales as a fantasy world.

[Grinner]

Are you absolutely insistent on having these Demons? This actually sounds very cool, but the Demons just seem to be an afterthought. They don't appear to hold a vital position in this world; they're just causeless interlopers.

...

Having given it a second reading, it's actually pretty cool altogether. I still don't understand why these gods, being evidently technologically superior to the demons, don't just obliterate the interlopers. I also don't understand why this conflict exists in the first place.

That aside, I have a couple of ideas, depending on how far along the Scale of Sci-fi Hardness this needs to be.

My first idea is just ripping everything from sci-fi sourcebooks, especially Eclipse Phase's nanoware rules.

My other idea is drawn from Geneforge. In one game, it's explained that Shapers work by bombarding essence (living bio-soup) with energy in very specific patterns. Trainee Shapers are often haunted by the memories of long nights spent crafting malformed monsters, only to destroy them; their craft is a scientific one, being marked by a tradition of trial and error.

As best as I can tell, the "magic energy" they speak of is ionizing radiation. In this vein, perhaps these Faithstones are actually radioactive ore?

[Jakodee]

So wizards and clerics are the same? Mabye the wizards/priests are the favorites of the gods and are given nano/bio/psychic powers. The demons could create warlocks through a similar process.

[Cikomyr]

Are you absolutely insistent on having these Demons? This actually sounds very cool, but the Demons just seem to be an afterthought. They don't appear to hold a vital position in this world; they're just causeless interlopers.

Not necessarily, but I like the idea of having a high-tech faction other than the Gods. Their purpose is to be the interlopers.

as for "causeless", well I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I mean, if they are there to deny the Gods' supply of FaithStones, they are not causeless.

Hell, if you want, you could even suggest that the Gods are the aggressors in the War of Heavens, and the Demons are fighting for their very survival. The bio-weapon named the Orcs are one of their lost-cost technique to attrition and disrupt the adversary's supplies.



Having given it a second reading, it's actually pretty cool altogether. I still don't understand why these gods, being evidently technologically superior to the demons, don't just obliterate the interlopers. I also don't understand why this conflict exists in the first place.

They are NOT technologically superiors to the Demons. They were just on this planet first.

As to "why this conflict exists", who knows? It doesn't matter to the colonies why the Empires are in conflict, right?


That aside, I have a couple of ideas, depending on how far along the Scale of Sci-fi Hardness this needs to be.

I am all ears, and I appreciate your input. But I suspect we'll need to foregoe sci-fi hardness to favor sociological realistics.

The idea that multiple species evolving simulataneously on the same planet and having different tech levels, but are still competing? It always bothered me.


My first idea is just ripping everything from sci-fi sourcebooks, especially Eclipse Phase's nanoware rules.

Nanoware is as good as it gets, I suppose. Perfect for the weirdest of "magical" stuff...


My other idea is drawn from Geneforge. In one game, it's explained that Shapers work by bombarding essence (living bio-soup) with energy in very specific patterns. Trainee Shapers are often haunted by the memories of long nights spent crafting malformed monsters, only to destroy them; their craft is a scientific one, being marked by a tradition of trial and error.

As best as I can tell, the "magic energy" they speak of is ionizing radiation. In this vein, perhaps these Faithstones are actually radioactive ore?

Hmmm...

Kind of like how Element-Zero created the Biotics in Mass Effect?

All right. Suppose for a second that FaithStones are some sort of radioactive ore. Maybe not "radioactive" in the sense we know it, but still emits some strange properties.

and, let's suppose for a second that these properties has a unique effect on certain of Terra's inhabitants. They get to develop some strange mutations..? They can manipulate the natural energy field, maybe?

Or maybe it's a normal "mutation" that the Gods are well aware of? Then it would make sense if the God's Religion would "warn" against the "Sorcerers"?

Thing is, if we make it an occurance that happens nowhere else; then Terra might suddenly become a point of interest. The Demons have a rising stake in exploiting the humans, maybe turning them against the Gods?


So wizards and clerics are the same? Mabye the wizards/priests are the favorites of the gods and are given nano/bio/psychic powers. The demons could create warlocks through a similar process.

No. they would not be the same.

I'll take after Warhammer Fantasy's idea that people consider Religious- and Arcane- magic to be two different things. In fact, Priests' "miracles" isn't even magic in their mind, and thus is a-okay.

Priests' miracles are done through their holy artifacts, which would be some sort of Lantern Ring, based on which faith they follow.. maybe?

Wizards would be some sort of deviants. Either administred (like the Psykers or the Imperial Magisters) or feared/stamped down (like in dragon Age)

[Grinner]

Hell, if you want, you could even suggest that the Gods are the aggressors in the War of Heavens, and the Demons are fighting for their very survival. The bio-weapon named the Orcs are one of their lost-cost technique to attrition and disrupt the adversary's supplies.

Sounds awesome. I take it that the Orcs are similar to those of WH40K?


Nanoware is as good as it gets, I suppose. Perfect for the weirdest of "magical" stuff...

Not just nanoware. Take anything from a D&D sourcebook and find the closest sci-fi equivalent. Golems? Those are actually robots.

Which brings up a good point...On a scale of Faerun to Middle-Earth, how fantastic is this supposed to be?


Hmmm...

Kind of like how Element-Zero created the Biotics in Mass Effect?

All right. Suppose for a second that FaithStones are some sort of radioactive ore. Maybe not "radioactive" in the sense we know it, but still emits some strange properties.

and, let's suppose for a second that these properties has a unique effect on certain of Terra's inhabitants. They get to develop some strange mutations..? They can manipulate the natural energy field, maybe?

Or maybe it's a normal "mutation" that the Gods are well aware of? Then it would make sense if the God's Religion would "warn" against the "Sorcerers"?

Thing is, if we make it an occurance that happens nowhere else; then Terra might suddenly become a point of interest. The Demons have a rising stake in exploiting the humans, maybe turning them against the Gods?

I had a thought about this, but it's passed now. I'll respond if I remember it later.


No. they would not be the same.

I'll take after Warhammer Fantasy's idea that people consider Religious- and Arcane- magic to be two different things. In fact, Priests' "miracles" isn't even magic in their mind, and thus is a-okay.

Priests' miracles are done through their holy artifacts, which would be some sort of Lantern Ring, based on which faith they follow.. maybe?

Wizards would be some sort of deviants. Either administred (like the Psykers or the Imperial Magisters) or feared/stamped down (like in dragon Age)

This has got me thinking. How do the Gods actually collect tributes?

I would suggest an automated overseer/mothership hovering in orbit along with a planet-wide satellite network. The mothership periodically sends drones down to the planet's surface to collect the tributes. In addition to that, it also serves in an administrative function by managing religious affairs. To accomplish this, the satellites are equipped with surveillance technology, acting as the mothership's eyes and ears.

Want to smite your foes? Invoke the mothership to do so. If your request is deemed important enough, one of the satellites will fire a bolt of lightning, laser beam, plasma shot, or something like that.

[Cikomyr]

Sounds awesome. I take it that the Orcs are similar to those of WH40K?

Somewhat, but take out the weirdest/most alien. Take more of a cross with the Warcraft orcs; they are bred on other worlds and "teleport" with portals. They never send their babies/civilians (which will do wonder toa void the "orc children conundrum")


Not just nanoware. Take anything from a D&D sourcebook and find the closest sci-fi equivalent. Golems? Those are actually robots.

That's sort of obvious :smallbiggrin:

But I was thinking that maybe a Greater Daemon could be in fact a "Deamon in Power Armor"? Black armor with an inner fire...


Which brings up a good point...On a scale of Faerun to Middle-Earth, how fantastic is this supposed to be?

Probably somewhat between Dragon Age and Warhammer Fantasy? I like gritty.


This has got me thinking. How do the Gods actually collect tributes?

I actually figured that out already. Circle of Standing Stones are in fact Teleportation/refining. The elves are the one who install them at the request of a local ruler, in exchange of tribute.

A local ruler start to get divine benefits in return from his tithes in FaithStones. So there is a direct advantage in having a Stone Circle after your own noble line.

Hell, you could have things like a genetic-lock for ancestral weaponries that only members of a family are allowed to wield.



I would suggest an automated overseer/mothership hovering in orbit along with a planet-wide satellite network. The mothership periodically sends drones down to the planet's surface to collect the tributes. In addition to that, it also serves in an administrative function by managing religious affairs. To accomplish this, the satellites are equipped with surveillance technology, acting as the mothership's eyes and ears.

Want to smite your foes? Invoke the mothership to do so. If your request is deemed important enough, one of the satellites will fire a bolt of lightning, laser beam, plasma shot, or something like that.

I like the idea of an automated overseer instead of a living crew. Would explain some of the most idiosyncratic behaviour on the part of the Gods, when they are irrationally.

Although I WANT to have a "Technician" to intervene and crash land on the planet eventually :smallbiggrin:

Although.. there is another possibility. What if instead, the God Empire is destroyed, and Terra has been abandonned/forgotten? The Gods won't come back, and leave the Terrans at their own resort.

Hmmm.. gotta reflect on that.

[Grinner]

Somewhat, but take out the weirdest/most alien. Take more of a cross with the Warcraft orcs; they are bred on other worlds and "teleport" with portals. They never send their babies/civilians (which will do wonder toa void the "orc children conundrum")

I'm not sure I can get behind this. They're bio-weapons and loving fathers? I had envisioned something closer to Xenomorphs. They're supposed to be murder-machines, after all.

[Cikomyr]

I'm not sure I can get behind this. They're bio-weapons and loving fathers? I had envisioned something closer to Xenomorphs. They're supposed to be murder-machines, after all.

Not loving fathers. It's just that those young orcs (10 year old or less) are useless in a fight, would slow the warpacks.

Orcs are not the weird superpowered war machines of WH40K. They are still bred reguarly, they don't regrow limbs, etc...

They are just like ye average orcs of Mordor.

[Balyano]

First thing I think of is why wouldn't they just mine this resource themselves with a massive strip mining operation, would have to be faster. But perhaps it doesn't need to be massive quantities so much as a continuous supply?

As for a way to make the planet more important.

Perhaps the ''gods'' interstellar travel involves tunnels through some sort of sub-space. These tunnels would be held open by stations in normal space. The lay out of the stations and the way in which tunnels can interconnect and where a tunnel from one star system can go to would be constrained by a huge number of variables. The result being that this world is setting next to a tunnel nexus that connects large numbers of worlds.

The 'demons' would have a slower but less constrained method of traversing the stars. They wouldn't need stations to hold open tunnels or the ore that is needed to maintain the tunnels. So interfering with a nexus would hamper their enemies transportation without harming their own. And since there would be lots of nexuses out there they wouldn't be able to heavily protect them all, this would be one of the least fortified nexuses. Just a thought.

This difference in travel tech could also influence how a summoning looks. Summoning help from the gods might open a wormhole, so the summoned being would step out of a glowing portal of light. Summoning help from demons might involve some other appearance. Perhaps they just fade into being as the enter phase with this set of dimensions.

[Cikomyr]

You are trying to find ways as to why this wouldn't work; which isn't a productive method of contributing to that sort of discussion. Why wouldn't the Gods just strip-mine the planet? It's obvious; there wouldn't be a setting if that happened.

Now, at best; we could find ways to rationalize the Gods' actions, but in the end the importance is to have a rich world. So, maybe the Gods did not strip-mine the planet because it was resource-inneficient? Compared with having the native mine the FaithStone for you, going in and destroying an entire planet seems rather excessive.

Or maybe it's, somehow, a renewable resource? I was thinking of how dragons would fit in this setting; and I flirted with the idea of them being the equivalent of the Worms in Dune; their life cycle is inherently linked to the production of FaithStones?


Finally, we shouldn't focus too much on the cosmology/mythology of the setting. The Sci-Fi elements are meant to explain the Fantasy, henceforth we should first think of Fantasy elements and make the Sci-fi aspect of our setting fit our Fantasy. Deciding ahead of time how the Gods or the Demons travel around the galaxy and what exactly is the nature of their struggle is putting too much emphasis on the wrong side of the coin.

Ultimately, the players should never have to directly learn about the sci-fi nature of the setting. Therefore, I don't need to explain the most elaborate aspects of the setting. Instead, I have to focus on how it interacts with the world the players will feel and touch; and make all the adjustments behind the scenes.

Finally, I have to think of a good plot. It's one thing to think of a great setting, I have to engage my players too.

[Reality Glitch]

This seems very interesting, I'm currently working on homebrew that combines fantasy and sci-fi, it's in my signature if you ant to take a look.