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InaVegt
2007-01-22, 02:22 PM
I dislike the idea of every cleric gaining turn/rebuke undead, no matter the deity. As such I propose the following replacement abilities, I also suggest giving each deity two of those for clerics to choose from. Even when not mentioned, all of these abilities consume a turn attempt to use. Additionally, every turning ability has spells associated with them which a cleric using them can spontaniously cast.

True magic
As part of the casting of your spell you consume one of your daily uses of turn/rebuke undead. This increases your effective caster level for this spell by 2+1d3.
Suggested domains: Knowledge, Magic
Suggested Deities: Boccob, Vecna, Wee jas
Spontanious spells: Detect magic, Magic weapon, Augury, Dispel magic, Divination, Break enchantment, Greater dispel magic, Greater scrying, Discern location

False vision
Make a turn attempt, every enemy is a target, the closest are affected first as normal. The enemies affected by your turn don't see reality as it really is, gaining a -2 penalty to attack rolls and are unable to deal precision damage (critical hits, sneak attack and the like). Those which would be destroyed instead automatically miss their opponents.
Suggested domains: Chaos, Trickery, Luck
Suggested deities: Boccob, Erythnull, Garl Glittergold, Nerull, Olidammara, Kord
Spontanious Spells: Read magic, Entropic shield, Shatter, Obscure object, Poison, Insect plague, Animate object, Word of chaos, Cloak of chaos,

Enlarge nature
Make a turn attempt, with animals and plant creatures as targets, the closest are affected first as normal. This alteration changes each affected creatureís size category to the next largest, grants it a +8 size bonus to Strength and a +4 size bonus to Constitution (and thus an extra 2 hit points per HD), and imposes a -2 size penalty to Dexterity. The creatureís existing natural armor bonus increases by 2. The size change also affects the animalís modifier to AC and attack rolls and its base damage. The animalís space and reach change as appropriate to the new size, but its speed does not change. This does not have any additional effect if it would destroyed.
Suggested domains: Animal, Plant
Suggested Deities: Ehlonna, Obad-hai
Spontanious spells: Summon nature's ally series I-IV (add them to cleric spell list for users of this ability)

Turn undead
As turn undead.
Suggested domains: Good, healing
Suggested deities: Ehlonna, Pelor, Moradin, Yondalla, Heironious, St Cuthbert
Spontanious spells: the cure series

Rebuke undead
As rebuke undead.
Suggested domains: Evil, death
Suggested deities: Nerull, Wee Jas, Hextor
Spontanious spells: the inflict series

Kill
Make a turn undead attempt, only creatures which would normally be destroyed due to hit dice can be affected, all creature types can be affected. Closest targets are affected first. Affected creatures immediately die/are destroyed/
Suggested domains: Destruction, War
Suggested deities: Erythnull, Gruumsh, Hextor, Corellon Larathian, Heironious
Spontanious spells: inflict series

Divine protection
Make a turn undead attempt, all allies are targets. Closest targets are affected first. Affected creatures gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws for the next 10 rounds. Creatures which would be destroyed gain a +4 bonus instead.
Suggested domains: Law, Protection
Suggested Deities: Corellon larathian, Fharlanghn, Garl glittergold, Gruumsh, Moradin, Sain Cuthbert, Yondalla
Spontanious spells: Cure series

Quicken ally
Make a turn undead attempt, all allies are targets. Closest creatures are affected first. All affected creatures act as though they were hasted for three turns. This effect lasts 10 turns Creatures which would have been destroyed have all bonuses from quicken ally doubled (including the extra attack).
Suggested domains: Strength, Travel
Suggested Deities: Kord, Fharlanghn
Spontanious spells: Cure series

Sunshine
Your holy symbol emits light as the light spell for 10 rounds, not only that but this is also a turn effect for creatures with a vulnaribility to light of any sort.
Suggested domains: Sun, Fire, Air, Earth, Water
Suggested Deities: Obad-hai, Pelor
Spontanious spells: Light, Endure elements, Resist energy, Daylight, Control water, Flame strike, Wind walk, Control weather, Earthquake

Tormsskull
2007-01-22, 03:02 PM
The first thing that springs to mind is overpowered.

"As part of the casting of your spell you consume one of your daily uses of turn/rebuke undead. This increases your effective caster level for this spell by 2+1d3."

Give up turning undead to be able to increase my caster level by 3-5 a lot of times per day (if I have a good charisma and/or take the Extra turning feat)? Seems far better than turning undead.

"Make a turn attempt, every enemy is a target, the closest are affected first as normal. The enemies affected by your turn don't see reality as it really is, gaining a -2 penalty to attack rolls and are unable to deal precision damage (critical hits, sneak attack and the like). Those which would be destroyed instead automatically miss their opponents."

This incredibly powerful. Assuming the cleric rolls decently enough, they can make a rogue nearly useless, and the rogue doesn't even get a save?

Before I go any further, what are you balancing these against? I'm a core-only DM so these look way more powerful than the stuff I am used too.

InaVegt
2007-01-22, 03:05 PM
Well, true magic is a lot less powerfull than divine metamagic (divine quicken, or divine maximize are both very powerfull.) and I'm not terribly good at balancing class abilities, which is why I usually put any homebrew stuff here for review first. The only thing I can do decently is putting CR's at homebrew creations.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-22, 03:10 PM
I'll check it more carefully at home, but I think you could set these as Divine Feats (Feats that demand the character spend a Turn/Rebuke daily use to activate)
I can see some of them are based on deity/domain. That would be interesting.

And yeah, all these are simply too powerful. You could tone down some.