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MonkeySage
2014-01-22, 08:20 PM
I hate the idea of giving him an ultimatum, but after all the hard work that I put into setting up our gaming sessions, it's frustrating that this player can't even try to stay awake.

Everyone else pays full attention to the game, and is likewise annoyed by this somewhat disrespectful behavior.

I'm starting to consider giving him the boot but I hate that idea, especially since I've got a whole plot related event planned for each of my players' characters, including his. I don't want to rewrite things just to account for his absence. I also think kicking him out would be an unpopular move on my part.

I have spoken with him about this and he says that he lets himself fall asleep when his character isn't directly involved in events. He said he has not been getting sleep, the room was hot, etc. When I offered a solution to the last problem, he said he'd "try" to stay awake.

Now the thing is, last session I was: exhausted from work, sleep deprived, and mildly drunk(con's my dump stat irl ^_^). And I still managed to run a game and keep everyone else interested.

valadil
2014-01-22, 08:40 PM
You can only engage players to a point. If he's actually falling asleep, you're wasting your effort on him. Prep stuff for the other players. If he happens to play, great. If he doesn't, no sweat off your back. Punting him works but it's not your only option.

AMFV
2014-01-22, 08:43 PM
I hate the idea of giving him an ultimatum, but after all the hard work that I put into setting up our gaming sessions, it's frustrating that this player can't even try to stay awake.

Everyone else pays full attention to the game, and is likewise annoyed by this somewhat disrespectful behavior.

I'm starting to consider giving him the boot but I hate that idea, especially since I've got a whole plot related event planned for each of my players' characters, including his. I don't want to rewrite things just to account for his absence. I also think kicking him out would be an unpopular move on my part.

I have spoken with him about this and he says that he lets himself fall asleep when his character isn't directly involved in events. He said he has not been getting sleep, the room was hot, etc. When I offered a solution to the last problem, he said he'd "try" to stay awake.

Now the thing is, last session I was: exhausted from work, sleep deprived, and mildly drunk(con's my dump stat irl ^_^). And I still managed to run a game and keep everyone else interested.

I'd probably kick him, I mean that's seriously disrespectful unless he has a legitimate medical problem. That is really disrespectful.

MonkeySage
2014-01-22, 08:48 PM
What if I started giving his experience points to the other players if he falls asleep during an adventure?

Yawgmoth
2014-01-22, 08:50 PM
Give him the ultimatum. Your time and fun is worth just as much as his, and he obviously isn't actually interested in playing a group-oriented game since he goes to sleep regularly when he isn't directly involved. That's rude and insulting and if it were me he'd already be uninvited.

Slylizard
2014-01-22, 09:17 PM
He's choosing to do it... buh-bye, don't let the door hit your backside on the way out you rude inconsiderate so-and-so.

G.Cube
2014-01-22, 09:38 PM
You can only engage players to a point. If he's actually falling asleep, you're wasting your effort on him. Prep stuff for the other players. If he happens to play, great. If he doesn't, no sweat off your back. Punting him works but it's not your only option.

This. I'm not sure what time your group usually meets, but when I first began my group met at like 11:00pm and ran somewhere between 3:00 and 6:00 am. I, being a morning person, fell asleep often during our first few months of gaming. They simply played on without me, and didn't worry about it, if I missed out, I missed out. Had they booted me, I would have missed out on the best group of friends I have ever had the pleasure of knowing so far in life.

Semi-related, our usual DM's girlfriend is a diabetic, and it's not uncommon for her to, whilst battling her blood-sugar levels, fall asleep during sessions. We've never hassled her and, to the extent of my knowledge, have never been offended by this.

Now, your friend may have no medical conditions excusing his behavior, and maybe you play during the day, but honestly, if he's making the effort to still come out and play when he is obviously struggling to get a healthy amount of rest, you should feel special and well-liked.

AMFV
2014-01-22, 09:47 PM
This. I'm not sure what time your group usually meets, but when I first began my group met at like 11:00pm and ran somewhere between 3:00 and 6:00 am. I, being a morning person, fell asleep often during our first few months of gaming. They simply played on without me, and didn't worry about it, if I missed out, I missed out. Had they booted me, I would have missed out on the best group of friends I have ever had the pleasure of knowing so far in life.

Semi-related, our usual DM's girlfriend is a diabetic, and it's not uncommon for her to, whilst battling her blood-sugar levels, fall asleep during sessions. We've never hassled her and, to the extent of my knowledge, have never been offended by this.

Now, your friend may have no medical conditions excusing his behavior, and maybe you play during the day, but honestly, if he's making the effort to still come out and play when he is obviously struggling to get a healthy amount of rest, you should feel special and well-liked.

Actually to my thinking if he is so sleepy that he can't stay awake, he either needs to make more of an effort (and that's a thing, I know that you can force yourself to stay awake). Or he needs to get home and rest. It's simply not appropriate to bring that to a group environment.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-01-22, 09:51 PM
I'd be less worried about the rudeness (though it is rude, don't get me wrong) and more about the fact that my friend is apparently having a hard enough time that he can't stay awake. That sounds less like "I'm not engaged" and more like "I'm having sleep/health/life issues." Is he OK?

AMFV
2014-01-22, 09:56 PM
I'd be less worried about the rudeness (though it is rude, don't get me wrong) and more about the fact that my friend is apparently having a hard enough time that he can't stay awake. That sounds less like "I'm not engaged" and more like "I'm having sleep/health/life issues." Is he OK?

Definitely take a look at this. The reason that I would respond harshly is that I knew a kid who fell asleep in a game once claiming he only got enough sleep for 4 hours of work and had to work 8. Which may be a little bit problematic, but the parts of me that had been a sleep deprived Marine really wanted to punch him, because that's really rude, not to mention extremely dangerous to himself and to others (if he's driving).

Jay R
2014-01-22, 10:30 PM
... this somewhat disrespectful behavior.

It can't be disrespectful unless it's done on purpose. Can you fall asleep on cue?

He can't stay awake. That is a fact. Not a show of disrespect, nor a rude behavior. Merely an observed fact.

Live with it. Plan to work around the character when possible, but short of using sharp needles, you can't stop him from falling asleep.

AMFV
2014-01-22, 10:40 PM
It can't be disrespectful unless it's done on purpose. Can you fall asleep on cue?

He can't stay awake. That is a fact. Not a show of disrespect, nor a rude behavior. Merely an observed fact.

Live with it. Plan to work around the character when possible, but short of using sharp needles, you can't stop him from falling asleep.

But he can stop himself from falling asleep unless there is a genuine medical proble, and if he is that tired he should be at home sleeping and not attend, politely declining, that would be the polite course of action. Just because something is an observed fact does not make it acceptable behavior, and not regulating my biological impulses in a social setting is a problem. You can't fall asleep where ever you want, in the same way I can't urinate wherever I want (admittedly that's worse socially, but it's the concept).

madtinker
2014-01-22, 11:21 PM
I have had real problems staying awake sometimes in school. The only thing I've found that keeps me awake us eating, preferably fruits and veggies. Carrots are great because they are cheap and not filling. Its annoying and loud, but my professor said he preferred crunching to snoring. If your player is willing to try something different to help himself and the rest of you enjoy the game, try to accomodate him.

AMFV
2014-01-22, 11:37 PM
I have had real problems staying awake sometimes in school. The only thing I've found that keeps me awake us eating, preferably fruits and veggies. Carrots are great because they are cheap and not filling. Its annoying and loud, but my professor said he preferred crunching to snoring. If your player is willing to try something different to help himself and the rest of you enjoy the game, try to accomodate him.

Caffeine gum also works amazingly, it's nasty addictive though.

Airk
2014-01-23, 12:29 AM
Caffeine gum also works amazingly, it's nasty addictive though.

Okay, so have we gotten to the point where we're recommending addictive substances to help someone work around (not even SOLVE) what is, pretty much, a life/work/health problem?

If so, we should seriously consider our priorities.

I think you should nicely "excuse" him from the game; "Look; If you can't stay awake, obviously you're exhausted when you get here. If you're that falling down tired, you should be home in bed, not trying to game with us. Go home and get some rest, and when you've sorted out whatever's got you so run down, come back and play."

We're not all ex-marines and we don't need to look down on someone for not being able to stay awake. As has already been stated, this goes rather beyond "this guy isn't adequately engaged"

AMFV
2014-01-23, 12:33 AM
Okay, so have we gotten to the point where we're recommending addictive substances to help someone work around (not even SOLVE) what is, pretty much, a life/work/health problem?

Recommending caffeine? That's pretty standard student/military/everyfreakingbody stuff. Most people are just fine with caffeine and if he wants to participate but can't stay awake that could fix his methodology.



If so, we should seriously consider our priorities.

I think you should nicely "excuse" him from the game; "Look; If you can't stay awake, obviously you're exhausted when you get here. If you're that falling down tired, you should be home in bed, not trying to game with us. Go home and get some rest, and when you've sorted out whatever's got you so run down, come back and play."

We're not all ex-marines and we don't need to look down on someone for not being able to stay awake. As has already been stated, this goes rather beyond "this guy isn't adequately engaged"

So why is the caffeine a bad suggestion, a cup of coffee works too, but it's not as quick and it doesn't involve chewing, which is why caffeine gum is superior. I was providing a suggestion for if they wanted to keep the player, which would not be my recommendation.

Knaight
2014-01-23, 01:08 AM
So why is the caffeine a bad suggestion, a cup of coffee works too, but it's not as quick and it doesn't involve chewing, which is why caffeine gum is superior. I was providing a suggestion for if they wanted to keep the player, which would not be my recommendation.

The issue with the caffeine gum is it is - in your words - "nasty addictive".

AMFV
2014-01-23, 01:13 AM
The issue with the caffeine gum is it is - in your words - "nasty addictive".

Slightly more so than coffee. It's just caffeine, the other alternative would be chewing coffee grounds, which is less palatable but the same effectiveness, or just having a cup of coffee would work for the same thing. This is of course supposing that the player has no medical problems and wants to participate.

MonkeySage
2014-01-23, 01:27 AM
He told me that monster might help... perhaps there are ways i can set up the gaming room so that it is not as easy to fall asleep? Only thing is I don't want it to be uncomfortable in there, no reason to make everyone else suffer so that's easier for this one player to stay awake.

AMFV
2014-01-23, 01:30 AM
He told me that monster might help... perhaps there are ways i can set up the gaming room so that it is not as easy to fall asleep? Only thing is I don't want it to be uncomfortable in there, no reason to make everyone else suffer so that's easier for this one player to stay awake.

Monster will definitely help, it's got a really hard crash though that coffee and coffee doesn't really have the same way, so he'd have to keep consuming it the whole time. You could also give him a hardbacked chair, or a bar stool, that will totally help fix the problem, it's very hard to fall asleep on a bar stool.

Incorrect
2014-01-23, 01:42 AM
How long are your sessions? Is it 12 hour marathons, or just a couple of hours?
The average human can only focus for so long without breaks.

An option is the old "you snooze, you loose". Don't wake him. Don't recap what has happened. And do give out xp, if he doesn't hear it, he doesn't gain it.
A bit more positive spin on this could be, that if he wakes and hears his friends have been having fun without him, and he missed out, he might be inclined to stay awake to be part of the group.

MonkeySage
2014-01-23, 01:50 AM
Most of our games officially start at 6 and end at 10, since one of us is still in high school. On Saturday sometimes till 12. In both cases, we break for dinner and last time didn't return until an hour later.

Side note:
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook and I think we're all gettin sick of pizza! ^_^

AMFV
2014-01-23, 01:52 AM
Most of our games officially start at 6 and end at 10, since one of us is still in high school. On Saturday sometimes till 12. In both cases, we break for dinner and last time didn't return until an hour later.

Side note:
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook! ^_^

Celery and peanut butter is an excellent snacking choice, and good for the whole wakefulness thing. A tad noisy though.

Knaight
2014-01-23, 01:57 AM
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook and I think we're all gettin sick of pizza! ^_^

You can basically use anything you eat. It's not like people who eat meat need it for every single meal.

MonkeySage
2014-01-23, 02:16 AM
You can basically use anything you eat. It's not like people who eat meat need it for every single meal.

Heh, down here that's considered blasphemy by most people. :P

Noted: Monster or coffee, anti-sleep seating arrangement, possibly keeping the room cooler? See if he can get a better sleep schedule...

Krazzman
2014-01-23, 04:21 AM
So he is the only Vegetarian in your group?

Is he a real Vegetarian or a slacker? (This influences the answer somewhat as I've seen some so calle Vegetarians eat chicken or fish... god damn hypocrites.)
As such he might not be able to drink an Energy drink without betraying his ideals.

Else I have to advise for tea. Or better said a special sort of Tea. Mate.
Here in Germany we have some "lemonades" one brand is called Club Mate. It basically has more coffein than coffee. But it is an aquired taste.
Then there is also Fritz Kola (or Fritz Cola) a Lemonade Brand from Hamburg which is both VEGAN and full of coffein.

Also I would say it depends of when does he sleep?
After the eating break? This might be something we call Food-Coma.
In our group... we have one player that recently had a baby and as such we don't meet atm as she is unable to play at around 18:00 (the same time we would probably start playing).
In my SR game (long long time ago) we met at around 19:00 had food and then played till 6:00 where everyone got into the bus and left. It was hard but worth it. I fell asleep maybe three times. It just happened at around 4:00.

Also if he is always tired maybe he just eats the wrong things. Many vegetarians do this. I've met one Vegan that had many insufficients after one year mainly because he mostly ate fries. To compare it to a 10 year vegan without any insufficients.

Lorsa
2014-01-23, 05:37 AM
Have you tried amphetamine? I'm pretty sure it would help. :smallsmile:

My coca cola addiction started because I was playing computer games half the night and wanted to be alert during roleplaying sessions. I did occassionly sleep at school though, not sure that was better...

The best cure for sleep problems is actual sleep. If that's not possible then you have to look towards various substances. Caffein is the most common choice, and you can find it in pill format as well if you dislike the taste of the various drinks.

Jornophelanthas
2014-01-23, 06:50 AM
Side note:
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook and I think we're all gettin sick of pizza! ^_^

Is the OP referring to the sleeping player, or to himself? Who is the vegetarian?

Socratov
2014-01-23, 07:08 AM
On the sleeping thing: During those hours a normal healthy person should be able to stay awake. So my guess is that there is an underlying medical reason.

Now the solution to this problem is the follwing: talk to him/her. that's it. say you feel hurt in the fact that he sleeps during adventure you prepared for with time and effort. Then ask him how his personal/professional life is going. When people experience stress, fatigue is one of the first symptoms to show up. Fallign asleep between 6 and 10/12 is a sign he is obvioulsy fatigued. which could lead to stress. So asking him how he is (and be sure to ask further then "fine" by asking for notable cool or bad moments). If that still doesn't work, try getting him to a doctor for a check-up. this might be serious.

As for your problem: google samosa's. they are made with frogpeas, peas and potatoes in pastrydough and are filling and nourishing. You could make yourself some mushrooms on the side (to get those nice proteins) and you could make meatballs on the side for the meat eaters. I have lived with a couple of vegetarians for a couple of years and both meat eaters and vegetarians saw no problem preparing something special (i.e. meat for meat eaters and non-meat for vegetarians) for either group. I mean, I assume that if they take care of the food that they account for you being a vegetarian, why not repay in kind :smallwink:.

Other options include curries or vegetable dishes with seperate peices of meat/tofu/whatever everyone wants.

Good luck!

Rondodu
2014-01-23, 07:21 AM
Does the fact that he sleeps really detrimental to the game? Ive had fellow players falling asleep nearly every session for a whole campaign. We certainly found it more funny than offensive.


Now the thing is, last session I was: exhausted from work, sleep deprived, and mildly drunk(con's my dump stat irl ^_^). And I still managed to run a game and keep everyone else interested.Running a game and playing a game are very different things. When you run a game, youre nearly constantly engaged; when you play a game, you can easily go a few minutes without being involved; thats more than enough to get you drifting. That in turn makes you not engage and, before long, youre sleeping.


What if I started giving his experience points to the other players if he falls asleep during an adventure?I highly doubt it will prevent him from falling asleep; however, I think it can be detrimental to him as a player in the long run. Sounds like a bad idea.


Actually to my thinking if he is so sleepy that he can't stay awake, he either needs to make more of an effort (and that's a thing, I know that you can force yourself to stay awake). Or he needs to get home and rest. It's simply not appropriate to bring that to a group environment.I believe that him coming and playing, but drifting at some point is still better than him not playing at all. Hey, the guy is likely tired at least a little bit and joins you for a social activity. Youve got to appreciate that.


Definitely take a look at this. The reason that I would respond harshly is that I knew a kid who fell asleep in a game once claiming he only got enough sleep for 4 hours of work and had to work 8. Which may be a little bit problematic, but the parts of me that had been a sleep deprived Marine really wanted to punch him, because that's really rude, not to mention extremely dangerous to himself and to others (if he's driving).Thats quite a stretch. Being tired enough to fall a sleep at a gaming table has nothing in common with being tired enough to fall asleep while driving without realising it and stopping the car.


But he can stop himself from falling asleep unless there is a genuine medical proble, and if he is that tired he should be at home sleeping and not attend, politely declining, that would be the polite course of action. Just because something is an observed fact does not make it acceptable behavior, and not regulating my biological impulses in a social setting is a problem. You can't fall asleep where ever you want, in the same way I can't urinate wherever I want (admittedly that's worse socially, but it's the concept).Hum how do you stop oneself to fall asleep? And, in this particular situation, is it that needed?

Mastikator
2014-01-23, 07:52 AM
If he keeps falling asleep then maybe he's not really enjoying the game, he might even be staying out of politeness but actually wants to leave.

ElenionAncalima
2014-01-23, 07:56 AM
I'd say talk to the guy, and try and get to the bottom of why this keeps happening. Figure out if it is a medical issue, game is running too late for him or if he just isn't engaged.

If there isn't an easy solution, like holding the game earlier, and its disrupting the game, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask him to leave. There is only so much he can be getting out of the game if he keeps sleeping during it.

hymer
2014-01-23, 08:16 AM
In my extended group, we have a guy who falls asleep in the oddest places. I wouldn't put it past him to fall asleep standing up. He works some strange shifts at times, and his sleep patterns are often rather mixed up.
I'm not bothered in the slightest. Let the poor man sleep. He doesn't snore, he doesn't complain, and he doesn't play characters that must be active all the time. The closest I've heard to someone having an issue with it, is another guy who feels it might reflect poorly on him (you know 'I brought this guy, and he just falls asleep, how embarassing').
So my suggestion is to work with it. Talk to your sleepy player and get his perspective, then decide mutually how you will deal with this.

As for all the 'stay awake by shots of caffeine' suggestions, I'm pretty much against them. Serving a pot of strong coffee is as far as I'll go. Carrots are better (though temporary), if blood sugar is the problem (but blood sugar problems should be talked about with your GP - s/he may be able to help better than carrots).
As for temperature in the room, nice and cosy will make you sleepy. But so will nice and cool. Part of falling asleep is a small drop in body temperature.

lytokk
2014-01-23, 08:31 AM
What shifts does this guy work? I've had a friend who works night shifts (12-8am) try and hang out with us on weekends and fall asleep half the time. While 6-10pm may be normal waking hours for us, its usually bedtime for this guy. He would try and hang out with us for as long as he could, since working night shifts can end up making a person feel incredibly lonely. They're at work when we're asleep, awake when we're at work, and sleep when we're awake. So basically, he was struggling to maintain a social life against the normal need of sleep. It wasn't easy for him, and he ended up spending a lot of money on energy drinks that in the end, weren't really good for him.

In regards to making the room less sleepable, make the room brighter. That usually helps.

Mastikator
2014-01-23, 08:50 AM
In regards to making the room less sleepable, make the room brighter. That usually helps.

Snacks help too

hymer
2014-01-23, 08:57 AM
Snacks help too

In the short run, as they up the blood sugar. But if these are snacks that give a quick rise in blood sugar, the body responds with a burst of insuline, causing the blood sugar level to drop back down, usually lower than it was before.
A good, balanced meal before you start playing is usually a better way to counter blood sugar lows.

BWR
2014-01-23, 08:58 AM
Man, people around here seem to be very quick to push the 'kick to the curb' button.

I say as I always say in these situations: Talk to the guy.

Say you've noticed he falls asleep fairly often and ask if he's ok. If there's a legitimate reason he's always falling asleep. If he has a good reason: medical, lack of sleep because of work, etc. but still enjoys the game and tries to take part when he does show up, I'd say let him come and just ignore it when he falls asleep.

If he stays up all night playing WoW and just can't be arsed to sleep before a session, tell him he's being a bit inconsiderate.

Red Fel
2014-01-23, 09:16 AM
Man, people around here seem to be very quick to push the 'kick to the curb' button.

I say as I always say in these situations: Talk to the guy.

Say you've noticed he falls asleep fairly often and ask if he's ok. If there's a legitimate reason he's always falling asleep. If he has a good reason: medical, lack of sleep because of work, etc. but still enjoys the game and tries to take part when he does show up, I'd say let him come and just ignore it when he falls asleep.

If he stays up all night playing WoW and just can't be arsed to sleep before a session, tell him he's being a bit inconsiderate.

This. Talk to him. Be compassionate. Advise him that if he's that tired, he should take a session or two off and get some sleep. Tell him it's better that he get proper rest, and come back refreshed and ready to dig in, than that he show up, sleep, annoy everyone with his snoring and drooling, and miss out.

There is only so much you can do to keep someone else from sleeping. Snacks, temperature, and chemical dependencies only do so much; even engaging a player, which may make them more alert, only lasts for so long and can't be done for one player exclusively. I'm not saying kick the guy to the curb; I wouldn't jump on that bandwagon so quickly. But give him a break from gaming to rest, and assure him that when he returns his character will be there.

I emphasize this: DO NOT use in-character consequences for his out-of-character conduct. That means you don't give his exp to other players. He may not earn exp if he's not present, but you don't spite him by giving it to others - that road is a treacherous one.

I will say, as a matter of personal perspective, that if he doesn't have a legitimate medical condition, or a job that exhausts him for long hours, it's pretty disrespectful to show up and fall asleep. Not that it's disrespectful to nod off once in awhile - I've done it, lots of people have done it, it happens. But if you do it regularly, then you know you have a tendency to do it regularly, and it becomes beholden upon you to get some rest before sessions. That said, talk to the guy, offer him the out.

Let's face it, sleeping on a faceful of dice isn't as restful as sleeping on a pillow. Let him go home and take a proper nap.

Jay R
2014-01-23, 03:52 PM
But he can stop himself from falling asleep unless there is a genuine medical proble, and if he is that tired he should be at home sleeping and not attend, politely declining, that would be the polite course of action. Just because something is an observed fact does not make it acceptable behavior, and not regulating my biological impulses in a social setting is a problem. You can't fall asleep where ever you want, in the same way I can't urinate wherever I want (admittedly that's worse socially, but it's the concept).

If the sleeper had written in for advice, I'd have advised him to change his lifestyle. But he didn't; the DM did. Since I don't really expect any good to come from the recommendation, "Change your friend's lifestyle," I could only recommending kick him out or dealing with the situation as it is. I recommend dealing with the situation as it is - recognize that this guy is not getting enough sleep, and run games in which his temporary absence won't interfere with other people's fun.

AMFV
2014-01-23, 07:38 PM
If the sleeper had written in for advice, I'd have advised him to change his lifestyle. But he didn't; the DM did. Since I don't really expect any good to come from the recommendation, "Change your friend's lifestyle," I could only recommending kick him out or dealing with the situation as it is. I recommend dealing with the situation as it is - recognize that this guy is not getting enough sleep, and run games in which his temporary absence won't interfere with other people's fun.

Asking him to do something to help himself stay awake isn't "changing his lifestyle" by any stretch of the imagination. If I were asked to advise him I'd have talked about sleep hygiene and proper sleeping habits. Offering him coffee or gum is something the DM can do completely, probably without even being a little bit offense.




I emphasize this: DO NOT use in-character consequences for his out-of-character conduct. That means you don't give his exp to other players. He may not earn exp if he's not present, but you don't spite him by giving it to others - that road is a treacherous one.


This is definitely true, provided that the player really wants to be there.



Let's face it, sleeping on a faceful of dice isn't as restful as sleeping on a pillow. Let him go home and take a proper nap.

THIS. Whatever the reason, he is trouble participating, if he can't stay awake then e probably needs more rest.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-01-23, 09:41 PM
Seriously, find out WHY he's so tired and work from there. He could be stressed, work weird hours, bogged down with school work, have seasonal affective disorder, dietary problems, etc. etc. But the first step here is finding out why, as someone else said, if he's just staying up late playing WoW he's the one who needs to change, and you're not obliged to do a damn thing about it. If there's other issues going on you can try to work out a compromise together if he genuinely wants to play. But I'd also explain to him that until he can get is sleepyness under better control you won't be able to prep adventures/plots focused on his character. He's welcome to play of course, and he won't be ignored, but you will not prepare material that requires him to be awake for the game to not grind to a halt.

Heck, worst case scenario he may not even realize what big of a problem it is to him, and having someone else put the foot down may be what he needs to figure out what is going assuming he doesn't already know.

veti
2014-01-23, 10:09 PM
Side note:
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook and I think we're all gettin sick of pizza! ^_^

Assuming your town doesn't have a decent selection of takeaways... then how about heat'n'eat ready meals from the supermarket? Take requests, go shopping before the session, then get one "serves two" meal per two people. Heat 'em all up, and let the players fightnegotiate over who gets what.

Slylizard
2014-01-23, 10:35 PM
Man, people around here seem to be very quick to push the 'kick to the curb' button.

I say as I always say in these situations: Talk to the guy.

Only reason people are so quick is that the OP said he's already talked to the guy.

ellindsey
2014-01-23, 10:46 PM
If there's no lifestyle issue (such as not actually giving himself enough time to rest at night) you might suggest he go in for a sleep study and be tested for sleep apnea. I used to fall asleep all the time in the middle of the day until I was diagnosed and fitted with a CPAP machine. Made a world of difference for me.

huttj509
2014-01-23, 11:12 PM
If there's no lifestyle issue (such as not actually giving himself enough time to rest at night) you might suggest he go in for a sleep study and be tested for sleep apnea. I used to fall asleep all the time in the middle of the day until I was diagnosed and fitted with a CPAP machine. Made a world of difference for me.

Seconded. Also reduced my bouts of almost bursting into tears at the slightest stress.

Sleep deprivation sucks, especially when it's from the perspective of "but I'm getting X hours, what's wrong with me that I'm so out of it all the time?"

NikitaDarkstar
2014-01-24, 12:25 AM
Only reason people are so quick is that the OP said he's already talked to the guy.

Hate to say it, but it's quite honestly a fairly common theme on these forums. Granted often the problems are presented in the worst possible light, making that a knee-jerk reaction, but still, it's common.

As for talking to someone, there's talking, and then there's Talking. Asking someone to pay a bit more attention isn't the same as sitting them down, outside of the game and getting to the bottom of things.

Kami2awa
2014-01-24, 07:47 AM
It's pretty vital for me to have a break during a long RPG session. One group I was with had 8 hour sessions without breaks... I simply could not do that. A half-hour to one-hour break (even if you just stop gaming and socialise as this takes the strain off your mind) might help a lot.

SassyQuatch
2014-01-24, 07:07 PM
Wait. So nobody has recommended putting his hand in bucket of warm water?

I am disappointed, Playground.

inexorabletruth
2014-01-24, 07:48 PM
It sounds like your player has a sleep deficit. He doesn't sound like he has much control over when he does and doesn't fall asleep, otherwise he'd get through your sessions.

The only thing you can do when you have a sleep deficit is to actually get some sleep. Coffee and energy drinks won't really help until he's "paid" his debt. All they will do is give him an upset stomach and make him jittery. By catching a quick 2 hour nap, he can catch up on his sleep and be ready to play for session time. In order to accommodate this, you may need to start your campaigns later and make them shorter. You can streamline campaigns by keeping the group focused by using a timer during initiative. I allow 6 seconds for a turn. Not only does it make a combat round go quickly, but it adds a sense of tension to combat that most players (while they may hate it at first) grow to love.

Invite your sleepy friend over a little early and let him crash on your couch while you set up. When the rest of your group comes over, wake him for the session and keep it short and sweet. Make sure he gets at least 45 minutes and no more than 2 hours to nap though. That will give him the boost he needs to stay awake for the session. Once he's up, you can pump him full of energy drinks to get the heart pumping.

Totema
2014-01-24, 08:20 PM
This sounds more like a medical problem than a gaming problem. Maybe consider asking his boss/teachers/SO/parents if he has the same problems in their experiences with him.

If so, then try to find a way to keep him engaged despite the sleeping spells. It wouldn't be fair to kick him out for something he can't control. But if not, and the problem really seems to be localized to your game, maybe he needs a little encouragement. I like the idea of threatening him with in-game consequences. I would be very hesitant to actually carry them out, but the word of the DM is frequently frightening enough on its own.

AMFV
2014-01-25, 02:14 AM
It sounds like your player has a sleep deficit. He doesn't sound like he has much control over when he does and doesn't fall asleep, otherwise he'd get through your sessions.

The only thing you can do when you have a sleep deficit is to actually get some sleep. Coffee and energy drinks won't really help until he's "paid" his debt. All they will do is give him an upset stomach and make him jittery. By catching a quick 2 hour nap, he can catch up on his sleep and be ready to play for session time. In order to accommodate this, you may need to start your campaigns later and make them shorter. You can streamline campaigns by keeping the group focused by using a timer during initiative. I allow 6 seconds for a turn. Not only does it make a combat round go quickly, but it adds a sense of tension to combat that most players (while they may hate it at first) grow to love.

Invite your sleepy friend over a little early and let him crash on your couch while you set up. When the rest of your group comes over, wake him for the session and keep it short and sweet. Make sure he gets at least 45 minutes and no more than 2 hours to nap though. That will give him the boost he needs to stay awake for the session. Once he's up, you can pump him full of energy drinks to get the heart pumping.

Energy drinks definitely work to keep you awake even if you have a deficit of sleep. Standing also helps (it's difficult, though not impossible to sleep standing up). The problem is that this is not exactly polite behavior, to be honest, even if he does have a medical condition, he should still have informed people, or shouldn't participate if he's having trouble participating. Standing is a big help, maybe have occasional breaks to step outside and get some fresh air, that would probably help.

The crashing on your couch may or may not help depending on the root cause of the problem.

Rabidmuskrat
2014-01-25, 03:16 AM
Before you go blaming the player undeservedly, do a quick checklist about yourself and your DM'ing style to make sure the problem does not perhaps lie with you.

- Are you letting one player/PC hog the spotlight most of the time?
- Is his character unable to contribute in most situations? (eg. is he playing a fighter?)
- Is your gaming group perhaps a bit big? (more than 6 people)
- Is your usual gaming time falling in a time where the player in question is usually sleeping?
- Do you not prepare properly for a game, resulting in a lot of 'book time' at the table?
- Does your DMing style simply fail to grab this player's attention? (roleplay focus vs hack and slash focus, for example)
- Do you have a DMPC problem (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/)?

AMFV
2014-01-25, 03:31 AM
Before you go blaming the player undeservedly, do a quick checklist about yourself and your DM'ing style to make sure the problem does not perhaps lie with you.

- Are you letting one player/PC hog the spotlight most of the time?
- Is his character unable to contribute in most situations? (eg. is he playing a fighter?)
- Is your gaming group perhaps a bit big? (more than 6 people)
- Is your usual gaming time falling in a time where the player in question is usually sleeping?
- Do you not prepare properly for a game, resulting in a lot of 'book time' at the table?
- Does your DMing style simply fail to grab this player's attention? (roleplay focus vs hack and slash focus, for example)
- Do you have a DMPC problem (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/)?

While these are all problems, they do not excuse falling asleep in a social setting. Just because hanging out with my friends is boring doesn't mean that I should be able to just fall asleep during the middle of said social event.

Mordokai
2014-01-25, 03:38 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, so if it has been already mentioned, just ignore it.

Inform the other players about it, but not him. Next session, be there before him. Bring cowbell(or something equally as loud and obnoxious) with you. Hide it so he doesn't see it. First time he falls asleep, use it with vengeance. Let him know, on no uncertain terms, this will be the solution from now on.

Either he packs it himself or keeps awake from there on. You don't even have to tell him to go, believe me, he will do it himself.

Saph
2014-01-25, 06:30 AM
One of our current group members falls asleep at the table fairly often. A past group member was outright narcoleptic and would fall asleep virtually anywhere. We played with her while she was awake, and let her sleep when she dropped off what's the problem?

Honestly, on the scale of potentially disruptive player behaviour, "falling asleep sometimes" is really far down the list.

Spore
2014-01-25, 07:14 AM
I have several instances onto where players make a shut-eye for a few minutes. They're mostly listening still though. But the problem could be found on several parts, maybe on all of them.

One of my DMs tends to ramble on in a novel type of way where he exaggerates every minor and uninteresting detail of his campaign world's backstory. He writes good stuff but he buries the good stuff under mostly boring "fictional history lessons". Are you that kind of DM?


While these are all problems, they do not excuse falling asleep in a social setting. Just because hanging out with my friends is boring doesn't mean that I should be able to just fall asleep during the middle of said social event.

You guys sure are picky and elitist in that regard. While I agree that it is not great or smart to sleep while playing P&P there are instances where it's acceptable. One of my fellow players is father of a 9 month y/o boy with a very worrying mother and he tends to get a bit of peace and quiet only through our sessions. Another one is working as a nurse and his wife is working on her bachelor and has a rather weak immune system and is sick 50% of the time.

So I have experienced both sides quite well. I know that good roleplaying tends to incorporate a bit of lengthy "novel-style passages" but you can't ramble on about fictional setting history for a good 15 minutes if no one cares (neither character nor player).

AMFV
2014-01-25, 08:06 AM
You guys sure are picky and elitist in that regard. While I agree that it is not great or smart to sleep while playing P&P there are instances where it's acceptable. One of my fellow players is father of a 9 month y/o boy with a very worrying mother and he tends to get a bit of peace and quiet only through our sessions. Another one is working as a nurse and his wife is working on her bachelor and has a rather weak immune system and is sick 50% of the time.

Then they should sit the games where they feel they can't stay awake. That's just common courtesy, it is not disrespectful to your host to cancel, but it is disrespectful to come and then fall asleep. If they want to take a nap during a social setting then that should be set up in a different manner.

It might be acceptable to let your friend crash at your house. But that's not acceptable to do at somebody's house unless you were invited to do so, it's disrespectful and rude to the host, that's the concern.

If you're sick, cancel, if it's the only moment's peace you get, then you should be upfront about the fact that you are coming to crash. That's all there really is to that.

Rondodu
2014-01-25, 09:04 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, so if it has been already mentioned, just ignore it.

Inform the other players about it, but not him. Next session, be there before him. Bring cowbell(or something equally as loud and obnoxious) with you. Hide it so he doesn't see it. First time he falls asleep, use it with vengeance. Let him know, on no uncertain terms, this will be the solution from now on.

Either he packs it himself or keeps awake from there on. You don't even have to tell him to go, believe me, he will do it himself.If you did that to any player around the table, Id leave too. The mere suggestion youd do this to some other people (let alone me) would encourage me to go.


Then they should sit the games where they feel they can't stay awake. That's just common courtesy, it is not disrespectful to your host to cancel, but it is disrespectful to come and then fall asleep. If they want to take a nap during a social setting then that should be set up in a different manner.

It might be acceptable to let your friend crash at your house. But that's not acceptable to do at somebody's house unless you were invited to do so, it's disrespectful and rude to the host, that's the concern.

If you're sick, cancel, if it's the only moment's peace you get, then you should be upfront about the fact that you are coming to crash. That's all there really is to that.I disagree with you. Sure, falling asleep is somewhat disruptive to the game, but I find it less disruptive than canceling at the last minute. Moreover, its not as if people could plan in advance wether they will fall asleep or not. Hell, Id find it much more disturbing if a friend crashed on my sofa in the middle of the day (because that would mean Id have to be quiet around him Id live my living room altogether) than have a player fall asleep (which hardly hinders my current activity: playing).

AMFV
2014-01-25, 09:16 AM
If you did that to any player around the table, Id leave too. The mere suggestion youd do this to some other people (let alone me) would encourage me to go.

I disagree with you. Sure, falling asleep is somewhat disruptive to the game, but I find it less disruptive than canceling at the last minute. Moreover, its not as if people could plan in advance wether they will fall asleep or not. Hell, Id find it much more disturbing if a friend crashed on my sofa in the middle of the day (because that would mean Id have to be quiet around him Id live my living room altogether) than have a player fall asleep (which hardly hinders my current activity: playing).

Well it's not a question of whether it's directly disruptive, but it is disrespectful, particularly if the person in question was invited there for a different reason. For example if I come and then I spend the entire session on my phone, it may not be disruptive but it is rude, in fact pretty incredibly rude, at least to my thinking.

Cute_Riolu
2014-01-25, 09:52 AM
Well it's not a question of whether it's directly disruptive, but it is disrespectful, particularly if the person in question was invited there for a different reason. For example if I come and then I spend the entire session on my phone, it may not be disruptive but it is rude, in fact pretty incredibly rude, at least to my thinking.

Whether or not it's disrespectful shouldn't particularly matter, in my opinion, if the individual in question is a friend, at least in this case. Correct me if I"m wrong, but you seem to be operating under the assumption of a "default" state of things, wherein the player in question is normal in most regards.

It could be that he's having trouble at home, or is particularly stressed from work, or whatever reason, and that hanging out with his friends helps him sort through that -- I know I'm a lot more calm when around people I trust, which if someone is otherwise stressed, may be more than enough to lull them to sleep even when they may not otherwise tend towards it.

The thing is, it's hard to know for sure without any more details, and I don't think it appropriate to automatically think the worse of one's friends.

SethoMarkus
2014-01-25, 10:31 AM
I have to agree with the OP that I find regularly falling asleep during a session a bit disrespectful and rude. Everyone is there to enjoy the game together, and while I understand the need for sleep I still believe that everyone that is a part of the game should make an effort to be engaged, not just on their own turn but on the turns of the other players as well.

In a campaign I was a part of, one of the other players would doodle and draw in their notebook whenever it wasn't their turn. This annoyed some of us, but he was our friend so we put up with it. It started getting so bad, though, that we'd be in town talking with an NPC to gather information and the DM would ask the problem player "and what do you do?" to which he would instinctively reply "I hit it with my sword." That was the point that we agreed we needed to talk with him. We explained that he needed to pay more attention in the game, and to help him do that we broke each session up into smaller segments.

The average adult can only really focus on one subject for about 45-50 minutes before attention can no longer be maintained. What if you played for about 40-45 minutes then took a 5-10 minute break; take this time to enjoy snacks, use the restroom, stretch and get the blood pumping, take a quick nap, etc. After the small break, pick the session back up where it left off and restart the timer.

For us, this worked perfectly. He'd still doodle during the session, but he'd be paying attention still and actively engage in non-combat encounters. He told us he had a bit of an attention problem, so as the sessions would drag on he would find it more and more difficult to keep engaged. When we broke the session up into smaller segments, he was able to pay attention longer and refocus during the breaks. As a bonus, since he was paying attention to what was going on in the actual campaign (as opposed to his imagination), we got some really awesome maps and character portraits out of his doodles.

While I still find it rude to sleep or otherwise do something else during a gaming session, as that is unfair to the other players that ARE making an effort to keep engaged, a lot of times it isn't the player's fault. Try to find some happy medium where the player can fulfill their needs while still keeping engaged with the campaign. Maybe allow the player to sleep when their character isn't even a part of the scene (in a different part of town, outside of the dungeon, etc), but I definitely would not allow the player to sleep simply because it is another player's turn in combat - I see that as implying that what the other players are doing isn't important, and that should not be the case.

Mutazoia
2014-01-25, 11:04 AM
Most of our games officially start at 6 and end at 10, since one of us is still in high school. On Saturday sometimes till 12. In both cases, we break for dinner and last time didn't return until an hour later.

Side note:
Incidentally, any ideas for things this vegetarian might be able to do for his primarily omnivorous group? I'm kind of a terrible cook and I think we're all gettin sick of pizza! ^_^

Chinese. A lot of places deliver and your meat-eaters can nom on their animals while you can graze on your rabbit food.

Mexican. While not a big fan myself, you can get a bean and cheese burrito and let the rest get ground up cow(?) on theirs.

Salads. I'm hard pressed to think of a place that doesn't offer salads. You can order from pretty much anywhere and get a salad.

Now...on to the matter of the OP:

He's told you that he doesn't get much sleep. What's he work schedule like?

For example: I get up at 5:30 in the morning so I can get to work by 7 am. That gives me time to shower, shave, get dressed, grab a quick bite to eat and drive to work. I usually get off around 4 pm. If I were in your group that would leave me 2 hours to go home, change and head over to your place to game. Depending on how far apart we lived that might may or may not leave me enough time to grab a quick bite or rest for a bit. Let's say you live a half hour away by normal time. But as I'm heading over during rush hour I have to leave about an hour before the session starts...probably took me 45 minutes to get home so that leaves 15 minutes to change, grab my gaming stuff and head out. Now we game from 6-10....takes me a half hour to get home, so I'm getting ready for bed at 10:30...in bed by 11....takes a little bit to actually fall asleep...so say asleep by 11:30. That gives me 6 hours of sleep. On a week day. Your group games till midnight on Saturdays...which gives me 4 hours of sleep on Saturdays. The average person needs 8-10 hours of sleep a day....

Sounds to me like the problem isn't entirely his fault. Maybe you should cut back your gaming sessions to once a week, on Saturdays. Your High School players will be out of school and able to start playing earlier so your sessions won't have to last till midnight and your sleeper can get some rest between sessions rather than at the table.

Knaight
2014-01-25, 01:53 PM
I have to agree with the OP that I find regularly falling asleep during a session a bit disrespectful and rude. Everyone is there to enjoy the game together, and while I understand the need for sleep I still believe that everyone that is a part of the game should make an effort to be engaged, not just on their own turn but on the turns of the other players as well.

In a campaign I was a part of, one of the other players would doodle and draw in their notebook whenever it wasn't their turn. This annoyed some of us, but he was our friend so we put up with it. It started getting so bad, though, that we'd be in town talking with an NPC to gather information and the DM would ask the problem player "and what do you do?" to which he would instinctively reply "I hit it with my sword." That was the point that we agreed we needed to talk with him. We explained that he needed to pay more attention in the game, and to help him do that we broke each session up into smaller segments.

This seems meaningfully different than being asleep. Starting with how, whenever someone actually is awake, we have no reason to think they aren't fully participating. Similarly, as long as they are asleep it's easy to just have their character follow around being quiet. The guy in your example isn't really playing at all, and is just doodling around other people who are and throwing out a non committal phrase whenever they ask for involvement.

SethoMarkus
2014-01-25, 05:54 PM
This seems meaningfully different than being asleep. Starting with how, whenever someone actually is awake, we have no reason to think they aren't fully participating. Similarly, as long as they are asleep it's easy to just have their character follow around being quiet. The guy in your example isn't really playing at all, and is just doodling around other people who are and throwing out a non committal phrase whenever they ask for involvement.

Yes, but it is still a participation issue that was helped by breaking the session up into smaller segments. If there is no medical reason and there is no lifestyle reason (ie not enough sleep at night) for the player to be falling asleep, chances are it is a focus/attention/bored thing.

I don't expect my suggestion to be a magic fix-all, but breaking the session up a bit will help with EVERYONE'S attention and engagement.

Also, I don't see any meaningful difference. Yes, when someone is awake we have no reason to think they aren't fully participating, just like when we have a social engagement we have no reason to think that someone is going to sleep through it.

hymer
2014-01-25, 05:58 PM
I think the meaningful difference is that you can fall asleep inadverdently; most (all?) people have. It would be highly unusual to begin drawing inadverdently.

SethoMarkus
2014-01-25, 06:07 PM
I think the meaningful difference is that you can fall asleep inadverdently; most (all?) people have. It would be highly unusual to begin drawing inadverdently.

I agree in most cases, but he did tell us afterwards that he had an attention problem. Don't assume that when someone stops paying attention is is by their own choice. I am not trying to say that the examples are exactly the same; they are not. However, both falling asleep and inability to maintain focus can be rectified by a change in diet, medication, drugs, exercise/activity, sleep schedule, mental exercises, breaks or rest periods, and a little effort. Both falling asleep and not paying attention can be intentional/conscious decision, or unintentional/biologically caused. In the end, the player is not engaging in the session the same as the other players, and if the table sees a problem with this, something needs to change.

Also, is it really so unusual to being drawing inadvertently? Are you saying that you have never doodled in your notebook during a lecture in class? Because I have. Though, I have never fallen asleep in a class or lecture, no matter how tired I was. Everybody's different.

hymer
2014-01-25, 07:01 PM
@ SethoMarkus: I was merely trying to explain what I think Knaight was considering the difference. But I also happen to agree with him.
I sometimes doodle to pass the time, but I've never been in a situation where I was doodling, and someone talked to me, and I responded with paying more attention to my doodling than the one talking. I've also never seen anyone react that way. It seems to be a conscious decision to me, and probably has left doodling and gone into actual drawing.
Now if you have some sort of disorder, and you can't actually react consciously to people talking to you, then there's no malice, and you can't help it. It does seem to be a rather serious problem, though, if you're not just cooking up some sort of excuse. I have no way of judging that in this case.

AMFV
2014-01-25, 07:51 PM
Whether or not it's disrespectful shouldn't particularly matter, in my opinion, if the individual in question is a friend, at least in this case. Correct me if I"m wrong, but you seem to be operating under the assumption of a "default" state of things, wherein the player in question is normal in most regards.

It could be that he's having trouble at home, or is particularly stressed from work, or whatever reason, and that hanging out with his friends helps him sort through that -- I know I'm a lot more calm when around people I trust, which if someone is otherwise stressed, may be more than enough to lull them to sleep even when they may not otherwise tend towards it.

The thing is, it's hard to know for sure without any more details, and I don't think it appropriate to automatically think the worse of one's friends.

Disrespect and politeness don't cease to matter because somebody is one's friend.


I think the meaningful difference is that you can fall asleep inadverdently; most (all?) people have. It would be highly unusual to begin drawing inadverdently.

Well inadvertently once is okay, inadvertently repeatedly after it's been addressed, not so much.

andresrhoodie
2014-01-25, 08:31 PM
Simple solution.

Buy the hottest hot sauce you can find, when he falls asleep smear some on his gums.

Worked wonders for me with the pothead in our group who couldnt stay awake. And it was entertaining for the whole group (minus 1)

Jay R
2014-01-25, 09:12 PM
Asking him to do something to help himself stay awake isn't "changing his lifestyle" by any stretch of the imagination. If I were asked to advise him I'd have talked about sleep hygiene and proper sleeping habits. Offering him coffee or gum is something the DM can do completely, probably without even being a little bit offense.

You can certainly advise him to try to change his friends habits. I still advise him to find a way to enjoy the game despite his friends habits.

It's always easier for me to change myself than to change the rest of the world, just as it's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the entire earth.

AMFV
2014-01-25, 09:43 PM
You can certainly advise him to try to change his friends habits. I still advise him to find a way to enjoy the game despite his friends habits.

It's always easier for me to change myself than to change the rest of the world, just as it's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the entire earth.

You don't have to change your friend's habits, just offer him coffee, that's not changing his habits that's offering him something that will help him, if his friend refuses or isn't interested then continuing to try that is a problem, but no reason not to offer coffee in any case.

Isamu Dyson
2014-01-25, 11:22 PM
How about hummus with a hint of lemon, paired with pita bread/white flour chips, as a snack?

kailkay
2014-01-28, 08:17 AM
I have found, especially late at night, that it can be difficult to stay awake. I understand when my players get sleepy, nod off at the table. Sometimes they just aren't playing the PCs that are major players in the encounter/session. Sometimes they're integral. Either way, here's what I have found helps keep me from nodding off, myself (I work the graveyard shift, so, if I had a busy day and didn't grab much sleep I will find myself nodding off from time to time):

A bit of physical activity! Call your group to a break, and have the sleeping guy go for a quick walk/jog around the block and come back. Pushups, jumping jacks, stretching will all help keep you awake as well (although some of us aren't as adept at those activities). I find one good brisk five minute walk gets another hour and a half of alertness out of me before I have to do it again.

Coffee! Caffeine is a wonderful ambrosia, but sometimes doesn't have the effect you absolutely require.

Food! Eat something. Playing D&D burns a few calories, especially if you are engaged in some intense roleplaying and have to talk and improvise quite a bit. Eating helps keep your body awake. Not too much though, or you could end up putting yourself to sleep by accident!

Encouragement and engagement! Keep him busy in the game. Make encounters that all your players take an active part in. I've found that 4th edition D&D keeps everyone engaged in combat encounters.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

And yes, for the record, I have fallen asleep as a player, and I have also HILARIOUSLY fallen asleep as a DM when the players went on an uncontrollable, tangential rules argument among themselves.

magwaaf
2014-02-07, 04:21 PM
I hate the idea of giving him an ultimatum, but after all the hard work that I put into setting up our gaming sessions, it's frustrating that this player can't even try to stay awake.

Everyone else pays full attention to the game, and is likewise annoyed by this somewhat disrespectful behavior.

I'm starting to consider giving him the boot but I hate that idea, especially since I've got a whole plot related event planned for each of my players' characters, including his. I don't want to rewrite things just to account for his absence. I also think kicking him out would be an unpopular move on my part.

I have spoken with him about this and he says that he lets himself fall asleep when his character isn't directly involved in events. He said he has not been getting sleep, the room was hot, etc. When I offered a solution to the last problem, he said he'd "try" to stay awake.

Now the thing is, last session I was: exhausted from work, sleep deprived, and mildly drunk(con's my dump stat irl ^_^). And I still managed to run a game and keep everyone else interested.

if this is anyone in my group, i'm old and i have sleep apnia and other sleeping problems. we start at 11pm and end at 7 or 8 am sometimes like noon to 3pm. **it happens lol

TheOOB
2014-02-08, 03:46 PM
I had this problem in our group awhile back, and I would have handled it differently now than I would have then.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a casual player, a player who doesn't care a ton about the game, doesn't want the spotlight or to make many decisions, and is really there more to hang our with friends than to play the game. Casual gamers are perfectly fine, and even desirable to a point, they help to fill out the party and make for more interesting table talk without requiring the GM to spotlight them or make adventures or plot hooks about them, they're just along for the ride.

That said, they do actually have to play the game. You don't have to be engaged 100% of the time, I don't mind if you check your phone, or have a side conversation, or doodle or whatever, especially if your character isn't terribly relevant, but you(we) are here to play the game. Playing in an RPG group is entering a social contract that you will make a good effort to show up to the session on time and play the game. Not playing the game while they are there is the same as not showing up, it's rude and unfair to the group.

I'm not saying that you should kick someone out for falling asleep, but if it happens often you need to have a talk with them, and if the problem persists, a solution may have to be found. Maybe the solution is they don't play anymore, or there character is a guest character who only shows up for a few sessions at a time when their schedual is more forgiving, or something.

Vanitas
2014-02-09, 05:07 PM
Dude is still attending your game even though he clearly can't get enough sleep as it is. Cut him some slack.