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Valtu
2014-01-23, 10:34 PM
Fairly new player here, still in my first campaign, which has been going since roughly Sept/Oct.

This is probably nothing ground-breaking, and has most likely been done by someone else at another point in time, but I had an idea over the weekend and decided to write it down.

EDIT: I think all of the kinks have been worked out for this spell. Here is the latest (and also DM approved) version of:

Valtu's Arcane Evasion
(unless I can come up with a better title sometime)


Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard: 4
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level until discharged/Instantaneous

While this spell is in effect, whenever an attack, spell, or other
effect would deal damage to you, make a Will save to instantaneously
teleport a distance less than or equal to your current move speed.
This movement does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

The required Will save is equal to one-half of the attacker's Base
Attack Bonus, plus whatever modifier applies to the attack (usually
Strength or Dexterity). For spells, simply use the spell's save DC,
regardless of whether it would normally allow for a different save, or
none at all.

If your Move speed is under the effect of a spell, such as Haste or
Slow, the distance that may be traveled is adjusted accordingly. You
may teleport behind or on top of an object, but you cannot appear
within any solid object. If you are being Grappled or otherwise
immobilized, this spell does not trigger until you are free, or it may
expire if you are immobilized beyond its duration.

This spell does not negate any damage from a spell that specifically
targets a creature or creatures. Any spell requiring an attack roll or
that affects a designated area may be avoided, as long as you appear
in an area outside the range of the attack.

A failed Will save does not discharge this spell; itís effects last
until you are either successful, its duration expires, or it is wasted
through some other means.

Special Note: This spell is an arcane extension of the caster's
self-preservation instincts, and as such does not grant at-will
teleportation.

Thanks again to everyone for all the immensely helpful feedback!

Additional edit: Further down (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16910458&postcount=16) I found a good way to explain the reason for a Will save vs a Reflex save, and add some fluff to the workings of the spell.

Oh, and major bonus points to anyone who can come up with a new name for this spell, which when abbreviated, would spell N.O.P.E. :smallbiggrin:

TuggyNE
2014-01-24, 01:09 AM
The range should be Personal, and the save should probably just be at the same DC as the effect you're attempting to dodge would have. (For attacks that are not from spells, SLAs, or Sus, the effective save would be something like 1/2 BAB + Dex or Str accordingly.)

Level is probably 4; it acts like a superior dimension door in allowing you to trigger at some later time and potentially waste enemy resources, but it requires an extra immediate action and a successful Will save, and has a considerably shorter range.

Valtu
2014-01-24, 07:36 AM
The range should be Personal, and the save should probably just be at the same DC as the effect you're attempting to dodge would have. (For attacks that are not from spells, SLAs, or Sus, the effective save would be something like 1/2 BAB + Dex or Str accordingly.)

Level is probably 4; it acts like a superior dimension door in allowing you to trigger at some later time and potentially waste enemy resources, but it requires an extra immediate action and a successful Will save, and has a considerably shorter range.

Thanks, man! I hadn't thought about the range. Definitely personal for that. At the time I was thinking in terms of how far you could travel, but range should refer to who/what can be affected by the spell itself, so definitely personal.

I was thinking the same thing in regards to Dimension Door. If I hadn't cut the range by so much (and allowed it to be potentially cut even further if you're currently entangled or being grappled), or required a save for it to even work in the first place, then I'd say it'd be at least a 6, but I feel like that balances things pretty well.

The idea about the BAB+Dex/Str is pretty nice, too. What do you think that would set the DC at for a typical CR 11/12 fighter enemy?

TuggyNE
2014-01-24, 07:23 PM
The idea about the BAB+Dex/Str is pretty nice, too. What do you think that would set the DC at for a typical CR 11/12 fighter enemy?

Let's suppose it's an Orc Fighter 12, for no very good reason. BAB 12, Str 24 (15 + 3 levels + 2 enhancement + 4 racial). DC would then be 23, and vs +12 that's a 50% chance of success.

Against a mature adult white dragon, BAB 21 and Str 27 make for a nasty DC of 28, with a 25% chance of success. A 12-headed hydra is a lot easier: BAB 12, Str 23, DC 22, 55%.

I suspect many casters would have rather lower Will saves, so it's possible this imposes a more severe limit on the usefulness of the spell, making it as low as a third-level. Could use some further research there.

Valtu
2014-01-25, 09:17 PM
Let's suppose it's an Orc Fighter 12, for no very good reason. BAB 12, Str 24 (15 + 3 levels + 2 enhancement + 4 racial). DC would then be 23, and vs +12 that's a 50% chance of success.

Against a mature adult white dragon, BAB 21 and Str 27 make for a nasty DC of 28, with a 25% chance of success. A 12-headed hydra is a lot easier: BAB 12, Str 23, DC 22, 55%.

I suspect many casters would have rather lower Will saves, so it's possible this imposes a more severe limit on the usefulness of the spell, making it as low as a third-level. Could use some further research there.

Thanks! Just what I was looking for. I'll check out the regular pure sorc/wizard saves and see how high they are when they typically get 3rd/4th level spells.

I also didn't realize enemies would have such high base stats. That's good to know.

TuggyNE
2014-01-26, 12:17 AM
Thanks! Just what I was looking for. I'll check out the regular pure sorc/wizard saves and see how high they are when they typically get 3rd/4th level spells.

At 8th level with 10 Wis and a +1 resistance from cloak or spell, that comes to +7, which is about as low as it should get. A PrC with good Will progression, +2 resistance, and 14 Wis brings it up to +11 or +12, depending on whether fractional saves are in use and entry point; that's about as high as most PCs could get. Against CR 8Ö Athach at BAB 10 and +8 is DC 23, Shield Guardian at BAB 11 and +6 makes for DC 21, Dire Tiger is BAB 12 and +8 or DC 24, and Behirs are BAB 9 and +8 for DC 22. An amusing little range there. +7 Will against those is 20%-35%, while +12 has a 45%-60% chance.

Pretty sticky in any case, though.


I also didn't realize enemies would have such high base stats. That's good to know.

Those are melee-primary creatures, not casters, so there's a fair number of creatures that would have much worse DCs (especially creatures with melee touch attacks that have nasty side-effects).

Valtu
2014-01-26, 10:36 PM
At 8th level with 10 Wis and a +1 resistance from cloak or spell, that comes to +7, which is about as low as it should get. A PrC with good Will progression, +2 resistance, and 14 Wis brings it up to +11 or +12, depending on whether fractional saves are in use and entry point; that's about as high as most PCs could get. Against CR 8Ö Athach at BAB 10 and +8 is DC 23, Shield Guardian at BAB 11 and +6 makes for DC 21, Dire Tiger is BAB 12 and +8 or DC 24, and Behirs are BAB 9 and +8 for DC 22. An amusing little range there. +7 Will against those is 20%-35%, while +12 has a 45%-60% chance.

Pretty sticky in any case, though.



Those are melee-primary creatures, not casters, so there's a fair number of creatures that would have much worse DCs (especially creatures with melee touch attacks that have nasty side-effects).

Oh ok, nice! Thanks for stepping in and doing all that research (or just having that amount of knowledge handy).

So what are your thoughts on this spell? Viable? Not OP? Level 3 to 4-ish tops?

TuggyNE
2014-01-26, 11:50 PM
Oh ok, nice! Thanks for stepping in and doing all that research (or just having that amount of knowledge handy).

You're welcome. SRD-based number-crunching is pretty much my thing.


So what are your thoughts on this spell? Viable? Not OP? Level 3 to 4-ish tops?

Quirky 4th-level spell, probably.

Valtu
2014-01-27, 07:35 AM
You're welcome. SRD-based number-crunching is pretty much my thing.



Quirky 4th-level spell, probably.

Awesome, so you'd go with the more dynamic Will save based on Str/Dex and BAB? (or spell DC against casters)

Valtu
2014-02-01, 10:42 AM
Edited original post:

Posted latest revision that actually gained DM approval for use in our current campaign and added a final couple of questions.

Leviting
2014-02-01, 10:53 AM
Negate Opposition's Potential ummm.... Effort?

1pwny
2014-02-01, 01:50 PM
What if you are running when you activate the spell? Actually, if you even try to optimize your speed a bit, it's easy to break 1,000 while running. Then with this spell, you can be like "Hey, that attack you just tried? Whoops, I just teleported 1,000 feet away! More people attacking? Hey look, I'm back!"

As an actual suggestion though, make it a Reflex Save, and not a Will Save. What does your mental fortitude have to do with teleporting away from an attack? So this spell should be reflex-based.

Valtu
2014-02-01, 03:22 PM
What if you are running when you activate the spell? Actually, if you even try to optimize your speed a bit, it's easy to break 1,000 while running. Then with this spell, you can be like "Hey, that attack you just tried? Whoops, I just teleported 1,000 feet away! More people attacking? Hey look, I'm back!"

As an actual suggestion though, make it a Reflex Save, and not a Will Save. What does your mental fortitude have to do with teleporting away from an attack? So this spell should be reflex-based.

I mostly put the thing about it matching your current move speed as a way to balance it a little bit, mostly in terms of keeping it from totally negating AoE spells that hinder movement, at least making those things still affect you somewhat. If your move speed is 30 and you're caught in something that halves it, then are targeted by a fireball, you can only go 15 feet so you can't avoid it as you normally could. I thought that helped balance it a bit.

How would you go 1,000 feet, though? I'm pretty new to all of this, so I've never really seen any truly crazy exploits for stuff like that in play so far.

As for the Reflex vs Will thing, I made it a matter of Will because that's something a caster will actually be good at. My current character actually has good Reflex saves because he's a Monk 1/Sorcerer 6/Enlightened Fist 3, but typically you don't seem to have great ones as a caster, and I wanted a way to avoid danger if you get cornered (or something spawns/appears next to you suddenly).

For this character, I wanted to be able to do a little more melee and deliver touch spells, but still have some chance of GTFO'ing before things got too nuts. We've got an Evocation Master Specialist who will pretty much only sit back and blast things, so I'm trying to play up my melee/casting combinations more to still bring something unique (and hopefully useful) to the table :P

Kislath
2014-02-01, 03:48 PM
Neat-o!
I like it.

n.o. peripheral evasion?

Valtu
2014-02-01, 04:15 PM
Neat-o!
I like it.

n.o. peripheral evasion?


Negate Opposition's Potential ummm.... Effort?

Hmmm, I think we're onto something here haha. I was thinking keeping the Evasion for the letter "E" but I was having trouble with some of the other letters.

Valtu
2014-02-01, 04:45 PM
I actually thought of a better way to explain my reasoning for using a Will save, one that I hope also will add a bit of flavor to the spell itself.

I see it as kind of analogous to having a "spider sense" that gets you out of harm's way through supernatural/arcane means before your physical reflexes could've done so.

The spell itself can detect the danger, since it was cast beforehand, and it sets off some sort of alarm mentally within the caster, who can then take that readied spell energy to instantly will himself out of the way.

I think this actually cements my decision not to make an Immediate Action version of the spell. This way it's letting the spell do the work, not the caster, otherwise I think it would be more appropriate for a Reflex save.

Editing original post to remove one of the questions I had asked.