Is that a (Iron Golem Swarm)... *Begins rolling new ability scores* [PEACH]

[LordErebus12]

Golem Swarm, Iron

Size/Type:|Fine Construct (Swarm)
Hit Dice:|18d10+0 (99 HP)
Initiative:|+4
Speed:|20 ft. (4 Squares)
Armor Class:|42 (+8 Size,+4 Dex, +20 Natural), Touch 22, Flat-Footed 38
Attack:| Swarm (4d6+2)
Space/Reach:|four adjacent 5 ft. squares (10 ft.)/0 ft.
Special Attacks:|Breath Weapon, Distraction (DC 19)
Special Qualities:|Construct Traits, Damage Reduction 15/Adamantine, Darkvision 60 Ft., Immunity To Magic and Weapon Damage, Low-Light Vision, Swarm Traits
Saves:|Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6
Abilities:| STR 15, DEX 19, CON --, INT --, WIS 11, CHA 1
Skills:|---
Feats:|---
Environment:|Any
Organization:|Solitary Or Multiple (2-4)
Challenge Rating:|19
Treasure:|None
Alignment:|Always Neutral
Advancement:|---
Level Adjustment:|---


Suddenly, the sound of five thousand pounds of metal on metal… As the floor trembles all around you, what looks like a wave of ten thousand iron miniatures comes pouring towards you, each with the likeness of a customized 3 inch tall iron golem. For the first time in your life, you feel real fear… What will you do…?

COMBAT

Breath Weapon (Su):
10-foot cube, cloud of poisonous gas lasting 1 round, free action once every 1d4+1 rounds; initial damage 1d4 Con, secondary damage 3d4 Con, Fortitude DC 19 negates. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Immunity to Magic (Ex):
An iron golem swarm is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

A magical attack that deals electricity damage slows an iron golem swarm (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds, with no saving throw.

A magical attack that deals fire damage breaks any slow effect on the golem swarm and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem swarm to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, an iron golem swarm hit by a fireball gains back 6 hit points if the damage total is 18 points. An iron golem swarm gets no saving throw against fire effects.

An iron golem swarm is affected normally by rust attacks, unless such effect targets a specific number of creatures.

Swarm Traits (Ex):
An iron golem swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. An iron golem swarm is immune to all weapon damage.

Reducing an iron golem swarm to 0 hit points causes it to break up and become inert, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. They cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.

An iron golem swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate). An iron golem swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells, however many such spells or effects offer Spell Resistance.

Swarms made up of Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds, but not by such created by a gust of wind spell (SR applies, therefore, immune). For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures.

[LordErebus12]

Lets Discuss:

1: Can anyone come up with an adequate plan to take this thing down?
2: What would the CR be for this thing? The Swarm Template I use calculates the CR at 19...
3: Advice...

[Kazyan]

How to kill it? Supernatural AoE stuff, I guess. Be a Binder and bind Amon + Orthos for supernatural breath weapons.

Golem Swarm is a great concept, and at the same time, I go "NOOOOOO" as a player.

[Siosilvar]

Forcecage or similar. Control weather. Failing the indirect solutions, an arbitrarily metamagick'd hail of stone or two should kill it.

The idea is quite amusing, though it does run the risk of being "have something prepared or die".

[Zaydos]

To fight it:

Shapechange into a black dragon. Circle overhead breathing acid. The acid breath is not a spell or spell-like ability and the golem cannot fly so depending upon terrain you can also stay completely out of its breath weapon range.

Bind Dahvler-Nar. Designate it with Shield Self. Allow allies to attack you, receive a healing effect at some point. I think that would get around whether it's immune to the damage or not (else hey take half damage by getting a pet swarm).

Bind Balam, Geryon, and Naberius. Gaze it to death. Actually brings up how Su fire and electricity affect it, I think RAW they'd do it normally and you can just use Amon to wipe it out.

Warlock Eldritch Cone + Vitriolic Blast.

Summon an air elemental (or wild shape into one), let it use its whirlwind on it.

A bunch of flasks of acid. Touch AC 22. This means at 50-ft away a 10 Dex fighter at Lv 20 would need a 12 to hit it with a flask of acid and then could kite the thing.

[therakishrogue]

dig or transmute rock to mud could neutralize it pretty quickly, since it's so dense. That'd only work when you were on ground level and standing on dirt or stone of course. other options in the same vein would be to lure it into a portable hole then close it up, lead it into a body of water then freeze it, or herd it over a cliff like so many lemmings then trigger a rock slide.

[TuggyNE]

Swarmstrike weapons work just fine, though they are not particularly common. Alchemist's acid, etc are half-way decent. Acid fog spell works just fine, stalling the swarm very efficiently and taking it down 3d6/round; at minimum CL, it would kill the swarm off entirely with a single casting, assuming the swarm didn't find its way out in time.

But yeah, there's a number of solutions to this, but they all rely on being prepared in some way; infinite SR + immune to weapon damage is not a standard foe!

CR is really tricky to figure out because of that; if you're prepared, it's not really that tough a fight, but if you aren't, there's little or nothing you can do against the swarm except run.

[toapat]

dump it into lava

[Yitzi]

1. The description should never describe what the character feels, unless it is actually an ability of the creature, and doubly never make assumptions about what the character has felt in the past.

As for how to beat it...the easiest way would be to use a bow with an energy damage enhancement; this does damage to swarms, and is unaffected by SR. (Why a bow and not a melee weapon? Because then you can kite or fly to stay safe, making the encounter far easier.)

[BeerMug Paladin]

Rust monster!

But then, I don't really know why a player party would be carrying a rust monster around with them.

As for the CR... Hard to say, maybe 10 or so. It can dish out a lot of hurt, but it's not too hard to get away from or kill if you could actually deal damage to it (with an area of effect conjuration or something like that)

[Ziegander]

How is it a Fine-sized creature if it's composed of 5,000lbs of miniature Iron Golems? I highly doubt it's that small (the size of a kitten or smaller). Probably more like at least Medium, more reasonably Large.

[Alent]

Rust monster!

But then, I don't really know why a player party would be carrying a rust monster around with them.

As for the CR... Hard to say, maybe 10 or so. It can dish out a lot of hurt, but it's not too hard to get away from or kill if you could actually deal damage to it (with an area of effect conjuration or something like that)

Isn't there a Rust Monster's wand or something like that, or a way to summon one?

Abberant Wildshape into a Rust Monster?

[LordErebus12]

How is it a Fine-sized creature if it's composed of 5,000lbs of miniature Iron Golems? I highly doubt it's that small (the size of a kitten or smaller). Probably more like at least Medium, more reasonably Large.

because its 10k worth of fine sized creatures. The overall size is large technically, but thats not how they are labeled. the base creature is fine.

[Yitzi]

Rust monster!

But then, I don't really know why a player party would be carrying a rust monster around with them.

Eat swarm?

[Debihuman]

Not bad; needs a little editing. +0 for bonus hit points doesn't belong in the stat block.

BAB/Grapple line is missing

BAB/Grapple: +13/—

Why is the breath weapon a free action? Normally it should be a standard action (see breath weapon SRD). I'd rather see it as a move action than a free action.

Space should be 10 ft. (see Swarm subtype).

Swarm attack is a standard attack not a special attack.

Attack: Swarm (4d6)
Full Attack: Swarm (4d6)


Swarms made up of Diminutive or Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds such as that created by a gust of wind spell. For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures. See SRD online. I don't know where you got the idea that Fine sized swarms were immune to gust of wind spells.

Does the spell repel metal or stone affect it? It doesn't target a specific number of creatures and I would say that despite the weight limit of the spell, because the swarm is made of individuals that are 3 inches tall and weigh 1/2 lb. each, it should repel them. YMMV*

How To Defeat An Iron Golem Swarm

What you want to do is lure it into a thunderstorm and have it hit by lightning bolts. Each bolt causes electricity damage equal to 1d10 eight-sided dice. Control weather works for this. While the strikes are random, an iron creature would certainly act a lightning rod.

Earthquake spell that opens the ground underneath it would also kill it.

Here are other clues from the WotC article Tactics and Tips: Winning Tactics Against Golems. You can read the article here: https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20051108a


Using Magic against Golems

Just because a golem is immune to most spells doesn't mean that they cannot be employed in some way against them. The best use of spells is to change the battleground to hinder, trap, or damage the golem indirectly.

Transmute Rock to Mud/Soften Earth and Stone: These spells bog the golem down, making it much easier to shoot with ranged weapons. The golem isn't at risk of drowning, but the effect reduces its speed to a mere 5 feet per round and lowers its attack and Armor Class. Casting transmute rock to mud on the ceiling above the golem causes significant bludgeoning damage (particularly effective against clay golems) as the roof crashes down on top of it.

Wall Spells: With the exception of the wall of fire, the other wall spells (force, ice, iron, stone, and thorns) are great for penning a golem in. It's quite possible the golem can simply smash through the barrier, but it'll be slowed down, allowing time for damaging attacks.

Telekinesis: Although useless when attempted directly against a golem, telekinesis can be used to hurl objects at it or block its path with debris. Particularly useful if the golem has gone berserk (see above).

Other Tricks

Pits and Traps: If you have the luxury of time, setting traps -- especially pits -- are a great way to force a golem to keep it where you want it. Other effective traps include falling debris.

Smoke: Remember that although golems possess both darkvision and low-light vision, they are hampered by anything that obscures their sight. Setting fires with thick smoke, or even using smokesticks, keeps the golem from seeing much -- the converse is just as true, however, so make sure you have your trap set before attempting such a maneuver.

Programming: Golems follow the orders of their owners and follow them literally. Sometimes the best offense against golems is to watch their behavior and see how they react to different stimuli. Do they attack when you approach a certain distance? Do they seem to ignore certain types of characters? Do they seem ordered not to leave a specific area? Sometimes the best way to defeat a golem is to kill or incapacitate its owner, leaving it to fend for itself with preprogrammed commands that can limit its ability to fight.

Debby
*Your mileage may vary.

[LordErebus12]

Not bad; needs a little editing. +0 for bonus hit points doesn't belong in the stat block.

BAB/Grapple line is missing

BAB/Grapple: +13/—

(Because it can neither attack nor grapple)

Why is the breath weapon a free action? Normally it should be a standard action (see breath weapon SRD). I'd rather see it as a move action than a free action.

(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm check the iron golem entry... its a free action.)

Space should be 10 ft. (see Swarm subtype).

(yeah, but its really four adjacent 5 ft. squares, since its malleable.)

Swarm attack is a standard attack not a special attack.

Attack: Swarm (4d6)
Full Attack: Swarm (4d6)

(Fair Enough)

See SRD online. I don't know where you got the idea that Fine sized swarms were immune to gust of wind spells.

(It offers SR, therefore, its immune)

Does the spell repel metal or stone affect it? It doesn't target a specific number of creatures and I would say that despite the weight limit of the spell, because the swarm is made of individuals that are 3 inches tall and weigh 1/2 lb. each, it should repel them. YMMV*

(No Idea, I'll have to look at the spell and decide.)

How To Defeat An Iron Golem Swarm

What you want to do is lure it into a thunderstorm and have it hit by lightning bolts. Each bolt causes electricity damage equal to 1d10 eight-sided dice. Control weather works for this. While the strikes are random, an iron creature would certainly act a lightning rod.

(um. right... is it an 1d8 or a 1d10? Is this iron attracting magical lightning RAW?)

Earthquake spell that opens the ground underneath it would also kill it.

Here are other clues from the WotC article Tactics and Tips: Winning Tactics Against Golems. You can read the article here: https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20051108a

(Seen it, but I wanted others too come up with ideas.)

Debby
*Your mileage may vary.

see my (Text) above

[Debihuman]

If you look at all swarms, they still have the correct stat block. Every swarm has the same space/reach, they all show BAB/Grapple, etc. It doesn't matter if the space is shapeable--that is part of the text and doesn't belong in the stat block.

Here is how it should look:

Golem, Miniature Iron Golem Swarm
Fine Construct (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 18d10 (99 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 Squares)
Armor Class: 42 (+8 Size, +4 Dex, +20 Natural), Touch 22, Flat-Footed 38
BAB/Grapple: +13/—
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Distraction
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Damage Reduction 15/Adamantine, Darkvision 60 ft., Immunity To Magic and Weapon Damage, Low-Light Vision, Swarm Traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 19, Con —, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or Multiple (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 19
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

More Regarding The Defeat Of Miniature Iron Golem Swarms

Because it is immune to weapon damage, you have to get creative with it.

Control weather allows you to change the weather but the effects of weather act as normal weather. There is no saving throw and no spell resistance in any case. A lightning bolt spell doesn't cause damage because of spell resistance, but it does slow the golem swarm. However, a control weather spell doesn't have spell resistance, and therefore its lightning bolt should cause damage. Whether or not you allow it to also slow the golem is up to you.

A lightning strike causes 1d10X1d8 points of electricity damage. First you roll d10 to see how many d8 you roll. It's random, but a lucky strike could do some serious damage.

If you want to be really nasty, the golem swarm acts like a lightning rod taking lightning damage every round that the storm is in effect, BUT anyone within 30 feet of it also takes 1d8 points of electricity damage.

Alternatively, you could have a 10% chance that instead of a lightning strike, the golem swarm is hit with lightning-induced magnetism. Thus far, I don't believe there are rules for this, but you can make them up. A magnetized miniature iron golem might be immobile for example. However, a character in armor also risks being pulled into the same square as the creature and getting stuck. How far the magnetic pull would extends and how long the effect lasts would be up to the DM. I don't recommend it last long, perhaps only 1d4 rounds and the area be no more than a 30-foot radius. This is just something to throw at jaded PCs.

I'd totally forgotten that gust of wind had SR. Doh. Sorry about that. You can still use gust of wind to create a barrier of fallen trees and the like. The golem swarm might not be able to climb over that.

Entangle spell could slow it down even further. This is good for keeping out of range of its breath weapon.

Luring it over a cliff is also an option. It's not immune to falling damage even if it isn't at risk from massive damage. While its damage reduction will help, it could still take the maximum of 20d6 points of falling damage. On average it will take 70 points of falling damage minus its 15 DR/adamantine, so you are looking at 55 points of falling damage from a 200-foot fall.

The trick is getting it to fall from that height more than once. If it lands on a ledge at least 200 feet below, it has to try to climb back up and it risks falling again. A timely and well-placed grease spell comes in handy for this too.

You can also have it take damage from objects falling on it. Dropping a very heavy boulder on it from a great height works. Enlisting the aid of stone giants wouldn't hurt.

You probably need to state that a miniature iron golem swarm is made the same way an iron golem is created.

Construction
A miniature iron golem swarm is sculpted from 5,000 pounds of pure iron, smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures costing at least 10,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 20 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 20 Craft (weaponsmithing) check.

CL 16th; Craft Construct, cloudkill, geas/quest, limited wish, caster must be at least 16th level; Price 150,000 gp; Cost 80,000 gp + 5,600 XP.

Debby